ehhh I think you talk about what it should be in d3 !! because d2 is all about items and skills build...
No! They are important, but far from everything.
I never touched BvB, but people who played it usually argument that it is the more item depent cathegory.
I passed some time playing sorcs and the gear influence very little if you ask me. The only very important stats is FCR (w/o a good amount you will problably loose) and resistances, but you can get both in a good amount using very cheap gear.
I played a little of necro pvp and it was the same. Hp and skill points are good, i know, but they don't decide a pvp.
For exemple, the only difference between a perfect geared sorc and one with avarage gear (but very well selected gear!) is that the geared one will take one or two less hits to be killed (in most cases). If the avarage geared one are more skilled be sure that she will win 299 or 300 times because when someone are more skilled, believe me, they can kill you without loosing hp.
Imagine SF and a player with 10~20% handcap. Thats the difference.
mmmmm, in low level dual, gear is less important well... but I try to dual without traded items (only what I've found) and I loose in a sec.
I don't see how you can be skilled in d2... you only need to handle F1 to F8 and be ready to take a potion and use your mouse... oufffff it's hard....
I don't call that a skilled = paladin with charge with a knockback weapon who do ~500 damage... (first, I never find a weapon with a high damage like that and second you can't do anything, you knocked back and right after he charge again...)
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn hammer...
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn fire ball in the entrence of town...
I really hope d3 will not be like that !
The only one little bit skilled I see, it's a necro = bone prison with bone spear...
mmmmm, in low level dual, gear is less important well... but I try to dual without traded items (only what I've found) and I loose in a sec.
Diablo is not supposed to be played wihtout trading items. It's not a matter of get strong or weak gear, it's a matter of get what your character needs, even if it's not somethingrare.
For exemple, for a sorc you will at least the 105 FCR breakpoint. To reach this point you don't need high runewords or elite uniques. You can even get it with common magic/rares. It doens' mean can drop it all. It means you can easilly trade for sets and low value uniques. I assure you in 2 hours you can farm enough items to trade for the item to reach your break point, wich is enough to duel.
I don't see how you can be skilled in d2... you only need to handle F1 to F8 and be ready to take a potion and use your mouse... oufffff it's hard....
Every game is based at move your mouse and hit some keys...so what?
In diablo you need to know where and how your enemies going to attack you, and this take ALOT of skill. Imagine yourself playing chess with 0.5 seconds limit in everyturn. It's D2 PvP.
I don't call that a skilled = paladin with charge with a knockback weapon who do ~500 damage... (first, I never find a weapon with a high damage like that and second you can't do anything, you knocked back and right after he charge again...)
Don't let the pally charge you. He will not charge straight at your direction. If he do, well, his dead if you spam something directly at his face.
And again it's not a matter of items. If this pally use a elite magic two handed weapon he will problably kill you even if you're suing above avarge gear.
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn hammer...
I don't know what people see in hammers.
They are certainly good, but totally beatable. And if he sit there spamming hammers, well, his also dead cuz you will hit your stuff too.
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn fire ball in the entrence of town...
teleport/leap/df/charge ?
If the sorc get 200FCR and you don't have time to pass through it w/o loosing HP, take the waypoint and go back.
I really hope d3 will not be like that !
D2 is not like that. It's just because the pvp are extremely noob unfriendly and people give up easilly.
It's just like Starcraft. People get rushed/harassed because have no notion of build order and give up. Except in Sc they don't have something like level and items to use as excuse.
The only one little bit skilled I see, it's a necro = bone prison with bone spear...
Try to hit someone teleporting around using firebolt/fireball/meteor. You will just learn the meaning of the word skill
Brother, i've nothing against you and sorry if i'm being rude. What happened to you is that when you tryed PvP someone with notion of PvPing owned you when you knew absolutly nothing about it.
If D2 PvP have some bad point, it's the fact that the game it's impossible to you learning it by yourself. Without reading forums to learn stuff like breakpoints, frames, angles, tatics, namelocking you will allways loose to someone that know this stuff. It's not intuitive, it's completly impossible for a human being compete in a good pvp room using random gear and not knowing all the tricks. And all this knowledge it's not found in the game. You need friends to teach you, you need a specialized forum to learn. You can't just enter there and think you can fight a player the same way you fight monster (hit and run + spam).
i'm not taking sides in this, but italofoca, what you describe there i wouldn't exactly call 'skill'. it's not a good sign if you spend as much time playing the game as you do reading about said game.
I never said know those tricks were the skill i'm talking about. The lack of knowledge is the reason why noobs many times don't do the next step, but certainly know those things is not what decide a avarage or high level duel.
Well i'm not here to explain how D2 pvp works and try to make people like it. I'm here to disclaim false information on the forums.
Diablo PvP is not just about items and spam the "best" skill you have. It's like those C&C fans that go in SC forums and say the game takes no micro.
Also, every RPG are based at complicated mechanics that you've no understand (and simply play the game is never enough). Diablo is not all about reading guides because it has a action component, but it's still a RPG and part of the path to master it involves gather info and share experience with the community. If you don't think it's good, don't play rpg because thats how they work.
Knowlegde, build creation and even the ability to make good trades are skills, all very important in D2 multiplayer.
Knowing things about the game mechanics and breakpoints are also important in PvM as well. Softcore you can do fine without knowing too much about it but playing HC it becomes important to know how the game operates and the breakpoints since you only have one life.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
Knowing that you need x amount of IAS to reach a certain frames/attack or other things like that are important since in HC you want to make good decisions on your gear you need to focus on getting items that will keep you alive but you still need to kill things in Hell. To have a better chance at being successful you want to know all this things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
Knowing things about the game mechanics and breakpoints are also important in PvM as well. Softcore you can do fine without knowing too much about it but playing HC it becomes important to know how the game operates and the breakpoints since you only have one life.
Yeah I agree.
This more "depth" part of the mechanic is a incredible tool, no matter if you're dueling or Pvming.
I just tryed to pointed out that people get pwned in pvp because most no close to tnohgin about the game. In PvM, as you said, they do SC and die w/o much problem, so they don't give up (except in hc, wich they don't even try).
Quote from "luc1027" »
What you mean by "breakpoints" if I understand well, IMO I think the game shouldn't have any breakpoints/lack/issue
Diablo is a D2 game, so everything about your character animation are related to frames. So when you get attack speed, cast speed, fast block, etc.. what really happen is that the number of frames on your character animation decrease.
However they don't decrease with every single point in those "substats". With a certain number of points, one frame are taken. When it happen it's called a breakpoint.
Why know breakpoints important ? Because it helps you to manage your gear alot better. Using the exemple i did b4:
A sorc with 100 faster cast rate will use spells (except l/cl) with 9 frames. If you get only 5 more points she will reach a breakpoint and cast spells with 8 frames. However the next breakpoint is 200 FCR. So or you get 95 FCR at once to reach the 7 frames per spell or nothing since those points won't help you to cast faster and doesn't help you in anything.
All the stats related to the character animation work that way. Faster Cast Rate, Faster Block Rate, Faster Hit Recovery, Increased Attack Speed.
AHAHAHHA and single player ???? I've never trade because they haven't a system for, I never wanted waste hours to find what I want !!
In single player you don't compete with other players, in PvP you do. Actually part of the singleplayer challenge is beat the game without using high end gear.
So if your opponents use a extremely valuable tool called "trade" and you don't, you're obviously in huge disvantage. Now if you say you don't like D2 PvP because without trading items are impossible to compete, I agree and respect you opnion.
Lol yeah, it's an annoying unfair way to do... but after a minute of walking she'll kill you anyway because you only need 1 hit to die...
You give me soluce but, it's always you need this build to kill this one... Damn it I want take any build to have a fair dual with any other builds.
Yeah. There are alot of grief and exploits in D2 PvP, i agree. But when i talk about D2 pvp i'm not talking about people griefing people on silly rooms. I talking about when you have enough experience to react to the sitations and evade that fireball that would kill you and attack back, killing the griefer.
And i didn't mentioned any build!
I agree that the builds are extremely imbalanced in D2, thats why pvp should occur in morror matchs (character of the same class, or even the same build archetype). A balance between all builds is impossible since you're assuming every single combination of skills would be viable.
However i agree that D3 pvp needs to be much more balanced, at least to a point that all classes can duel with each other w/o great disvantages.
This question is 100% dependent on time. When you first play Diablo, you're amazed by the story and you want to experience every part of the atmosphere first hand. But when you start to become godly, you realize that you're bored as hell, so you turn to PvP.
I was thinking in a way of creating PvE or PvP game like you do with Deathmatch game in FPS. So you know what are you going into. No arenas, just type of game.
Solfreki explain well why your thought will not be implemented...
It's pretty the same as d2 when people making game with PvP or duel in the title of the game, it's only non-official.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
No! They are important, but far from everything.
I never touched BvB, but people who played it usually argument that it is the more item depent cathegory.
I passed some time playing sorcs and the gear influence very little if you ask me. The only very important stats is FCR (w/o a good amount you will problably loose) and resistances, but you can get both in a good amount using very cheap gear.
I played a little of necro pvp and it was the same. Hp and skill points are good, i know, but they don't decide a pvp.
For exemple, the only difference between a perfect geared sorc and one with avarage gear (but very well selected gear!) is that the geared one will take one or two less hits to be killed (in most cases). If the avarage geared one are more skilled be sure that she will win 299 or 300 times because when someone are more skilled, believe me, they can kill you without loosing hp.
Imagine SF and a player with 10~20% handcap. Thats the difference.
I don't see how you can be skilled in d2... you only need to handle F1 to F8 and be ready to take a potion and use your mouse... oufffff it's hard....
I don't call that a skilled = paladin with charge with a knockback weapon who do ~500 damage... (first, I never find a weapon with a high damage like that and second you can't do anything, you knocked back and right after he charge again...)
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn hammer...
I don't call that skilled when you non-stop spawn fire ball in the entrence of town...
I really hope d3 will not be like that !
The only one little bit skilled I see, it's a necro = bone prison with bone spear...
Diablo is not supposed to be played wihtout trading items. It's not a matter of get strong or weak gear, it's a matter of get what your character needs, even if it's not somethingrare.
For exemple, for a sorc you will at least the 105 FCR breakpoint. To reach this point you don't need high runewords or elite uniques. You can even get it with common magic/rares. It doens' mean can drop it all. It means you can easilly trade for sets and low value uniques. I assure you in 2 hours you can farm enough items to trade for the item to reach your break point, wich is enough to duel.
Every game is based at move your mouse and hit some keys...so what?
In diablo you need to know where and how your enemies going to attack you, and this take ALOT of skill. Imagine yourself playing chess with 0.5 seconds limit in everyturn. It's D2 PvP.
Don't let the pally charge you. He will not charge straight at your direction. If he do, well, his dead if you spam something directly at his face.
And again it's not a matter of items. If this pally use a elite magic two handed weapon he will problably kill you even if you're suing above avarge gear.
I don't know what people see in hammers.
They are certainly good, but totally beatable. And if he sit there spamming hammers, well, his also dead cuz you will hit your stuff too.
teleport/leap/df/charge ?
If the sorc get 200FCR and you don't have time to pass through it w/o loosing HP, take the waypoint and go back.
D2 is not like that. It's just because the pvp are extremely noob unfriendly and people give up easilly.
It's just like Starcraft. People get rushed/harassed because have no notion of build order and give up. Except in Sc they don't have something like level and items to use as excuse.
Try to hit someone teleporting around using firebolt/fireball/meteor. You will just learn the meaning of the word skill
Brother, i've nothing against you and sorry if i'm being rude. What happened to you is that when you tryed PvP someone with notion of PvPing owned you when you knew absolutly nothing about it.
If D2 PvP have some bad point, it's the fact that the game it's impossible to you learning it by yourself. Without reading forums to learn stuff like breakpoints, frames, angles, tatics, namelocking you will allways loose to someone that know this stuff. It's not intuitive, it's completly impossible for a human being compete in a good pvp room using random gear and not knowing all the tricks. And all this knowledge it's not found in the game. You need friends to teach you, you need a specialized forum to learn. You can't just enter there and think you can fight a player the same way you fight monster (hit and run + spam).
I never said know those tricks were the skill i'm talking about. The lack of knowledge is the reason why noobs many times don't do the next step, but certainly know those things is not what decide a avarage or high level duel.
Well i'm not here to explain how D2 pvp works and try to make people like it. I'm here to disclaim false information on the forums.
Diablo PvP is not just about items and spam the "best" skill you have. It's like those C&C fans that go in SC forums and say the game takes no micro.
Also, every RPG are based at complicated mechanics that you've no understand (and simply play the game is never enough). Diablo is not all about reading guides because it has a action component, but it's still a RPG and part of the path to master it involves gather info and share experience with the community. If you don't think it's good, don't play rpg because thats how they work.
Knowlegde, build creation and even the ability to make good trades are skills, all very important in D2 multiplayer.
AHAHAHHA and single player ???? I've never trade because they haven't a system for, I never wanted waste hours to find what I want !!
Bad example...
Lol yeah, it's an annoying unfair way to do... but after a minute of walking she'll kill you anyway because you only need 1 hit to die...
You give me soluce but, it's always you need this build to kill this one... Damn it I want take any build to have a fair dual with any other builds.
I understand your point, but I think PvP will need a good match making, in sort to be matched with someone at your level (level and gear)
@Solfreki sorry but it's obvious that d3 PvP will not be the same as d2 !!
HvH ??
@Hans : d2 attack speed is one of the biggest fail I ever seen !!
It can be very liberating.
Yeah I agree.
This more "depth" part of the mechanic is a incredible tool, no matter if you're dueling or Pvming.
I just tryed to pointed out that people get pwned in pvp because most no close to tnohgin about the game. In PvM, as you said, they do SC and die w/o much problem, so they don't give up (except in hc, wich they don't even try).
Diablo is a D2 game, so everything about your character animation are related to frames. So when you get attack speed, cast speed, fast block, etc.. what really happen is that the number of frames on your character animation decrease.
However they don't decrease with every single point in those "substats". With a certain number of points, one frame are taken. When it happen it's called a breakpoint.
Why know breakpoints important ? Because it helps you to manage your gear alot better. Using the exemple i did b4:
A sorc with 100 faster cast rate will use spells (except l/cl) with 9 frames. If you get only 5 more points she will reach a breakpoint and cast spells with 8 frames. However the next breakpoint is 200 FCR. So or you get 95 FCR at once to reach the 7 frames per spell or nothing since those points won't help you to cast faster and doesn't help you in anything.
All the stats related to the character animation work that way. Faster Cast Rate, Faster Block Rate, Faster Hit Recovery, Increased Attack Speed.
In single player you don't compete with other players, in PvP you do. Actually part of the singleplayer challenge is beat the game without using high end gear.
So if your opponents use a extremely valuable tool called "trade" and you don't, you're obviously in huge disvantage. Now if you say you don't like D2 PvP because without trading items are impossible to compete, I agree and respect you opnion.
Yeah. There are alot of grief and exploits in D2 PvP, i agree. But when i talk about D2 pvp i'm not talking about people griefing people on silly rooms. I talking about when you have enough experience to react to the sitations and evade that fireball that would kill you and attack back, killing the griefer.
And i didn't mentioned any build!
I agree that the builds are extremely imbalanced in D2, thats why pvp should occur in morror matchs (character of the same class, or even the same build archetype). A balance between all builds is impossible since you're assuming every single combination of skills would be viable.
However i agree that D3 pvp needs to be much more balanced, at least to a point that all classes can duel with each other w/o great disvantages.
♣Strength and Honor♣
maybe a dual arena ?
But what's sure Solfreki have right, every players will need to agree dual so we don't need a specific game for that (PvP only, PvE only)...
hahahahah, not to be rude really, but when I read your text I think of Golem saying it
♣Strength and Honor♣
Solfreki explain well why your thought will not be implemented...
It's pretty the same as d2 when people making game with PvP or duel in the title of the game, it's only non-official.