How do you end up with 8.4 Spirit without buffs? I assume 1.4 base Attackspeed (Fist Weapons) and add the 15% Attackspeed bonus for DWing... that puts us at 1.4*1.15 = 1.61 Attacks/sec and thuse we gain 9.66 Spirit/sec. Do you use slower Weapons?
With obsidian way of the hundred fist that goes up to 2.38 attacks per second. so 14.28 spirit per second. Not to mention combos seem to be faster then normal attacks.
They seem to be but I can assure you they go at weapon speed. Except the 2nd attack from Way since it states that it hits 'multiple' times.
1)@Rym How do you end up with 2.38 Attack/sec? If I'm not mistaken its 16%*3 Stacks = 48% Attackspeed increase. DWing is 15% Attackspeed increase. If we assume that its additive... its 48%+15% = 63% Attackspeed bonus. 1.4*1.63 = 2.282 Attacks/sec.
Edit: Rym beat me to it yeah I linked that topic pretty often all over the monk forum^^. Also @azuresky what do you mean with "dimishing returns"? As far as I know there are no dimishing returns on dodge... all it does is add multiplicative (and thats not the same thing as having dimishing returns :D).
At your point about attack speed. Diminishing returns. They already said they do not want attack speed running wild like it did in D2 so I don't think we will be able to achieve anything too much past 2sec
Edit: this is attack speed on the naked weapon not what the skill does to it.
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Okay after all of this talk I worked over my build once more. Instead of ramping using Way with onyx I'm using crimson to get that extra distance closer. Same can be said for 7SS although that is also a great DPS CD anyway. Breath is used whenever you get low or need to set up the buff again.
I was debating the runes on the Mantra and the Mantra choice itself. I know in Rym's build he is using dodge but I have a feeling that after all is said and done between the 2 passives + Mantra + natural dodge from dexterity you might be running to heavily into diminishing returns to really see much of a bonus. So I chose Mantra of Healing. Still then the runes were a hard choice so I picked one that provides a really good output per activation.
I was also thinking of switching Six Sense to Seize the Initiative for the same issue of diminishing returns. This however is another one of those "we will see when the game ships" changes.
Back in my WoW days i played a druid tank, so i know a lot about diminishing returns. I hope Im not hurt too too bad by this. I could very well be ok at higher levels its as you said wait and see when the games out. If Im a bit over in dodge then ill just have to use transcendence .
As for your mantra of healing issue. thats a tough one... the golden rune, soothing breeze seems nice. the extra spirit may be useful and could at lest help fuel the mantra. Or boon of protection seems a bit scary. a shield for 25% of your health.
1)@Rym How do you end up with 2.38 Attack/sec? If I'm not mistaken its 16%*3 Stacks = 48% Attackspeed increase. DWing is 15% Attackspeed increase. If we assume that its additive... its 48%+15% = 63% Attackspeed bonus. 1.4*1.63 = 2.282 Attacks/sec.
Im blaming that on my dyslexia >_> i punched it in my calculator and I get the answer you said. I must have messed something up.
Okay after all of this talk I worked over my build once more. Instead of ramping using Way with onyx I'm using crimson to get that extra distance closer. Same can be said for 7SS although that is also a great DPS CD anyway. Breath is used whenever you get low or need to set up the buff again.
I was debating the runes on the Mantra and the Mantra choice itself. I know in Rym's build he is using dodge but I have a feeling that after all is said and done between the 2 passives + Mantra + natural dodge from dexterity you might be running to heavily into diminishing returns to really see much of a bonus. So I chose Mantra of Healing. Still then the runes were a hard choice so I picked one that provides a really good output per activation.
I was also thinking of switching Six Sense to Seize the Initiative for the same issue of diminishing returns. This however is another one of those "we will see when the game ships" changes.
Back in my WoW days i played a druid tank, so i know a lot about diminishing returns. I hope Im not hurt too too bad by this. I could very well be ok at higher levels its as you said wait and see when the games out. If Im a bit over in dodge then ill just have to use transcendence .
As for your mantra of healing issue. thats a tough one... the golden rune, soothing breeze seems nice. the extra spirit may be useful and could at lest help fuel the mantra. Or boon of protection seems a bit scary. a shield for 25% of your health.
1)@Rym How do you end up with 2.38 Attack/sec? If I'm not mistaken its 16%*3 Stacks = 48% Attackspeed increase. DWing is 15% Attackspeed increase. If we assume that its additive... its 48%+15% = 63% Attackspeed bonus. 1.4*1.63 = 2.282 Attacks/sec.
Im blaming that on my dyslexia >_> i punched it in my calculator and I get the answer you said. I must have messed something up.
Oh gosh thank goodness I saved the build. I did not even notice that I had not posted it.
Edit: Rym beat me to it yeah I linked that topic pretty often all over the monk forum^^. Also @azuresky what do you mean with "dimishing returns"? As far as I know there are no dimishing returns on dodge... all it does is add multiplicative (and thats not the same thing as having dimishing returns :D).
I think the multiplicative factor would be enough of a diminishing return . Or at lest I hope so.
Guess I'm a little tired after the long day. I'm gonna head out for the night, but I assure you I will be back
yea... my girlfriend would not be too pleased if I slept through the movie marathon tomorrow. Im out for now too. Pick this up again same time tomorrow ? xD
Your build looks good to me. I may be a bit tiered to catch something.
About the Attackspeed "limit" and not letting it rampage like it did in D2... its kinda old (Patch 4) but the DH here has an Attackspeed of 2.38 Attacks/sec.
And that is with lvl13 and only lvl13 gear
My lvl 13 DH even with stacking attack speed is having trouble breaking 2aps. I have a feeling it will act kinda like wow. As you level and get better gear it will require more and more attack speed to reach the same number. Also I may be wrong, got in the beta after patch 10 so I have not been keeping a close eye on everything, but didn't they change many of the mechanics for the DH since then. On top of that I also read that the stat system was stripped down and changed quite a few times during the beta.
I still don't feel the extra 16% dps is worth loosing two skill slots. You lose a huge amount of utility. Also dropping only one of those punches for the damage Mantra would provide more damage. Instead of getting 40% for all 5 punches you will get 52% for 4 punches and the mantra.
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About the Attackspeed "limit" and not letting it rampage like it did in D2... its kinda old (Patch 4) but the DH here has an Attackspeed of 2.38 Attacks/sec.
And that is with lvl13 and only lvl13 gear
My lvl 13 DH even with stacking attack speed is having trouble breaking 2aps. I have a feeling it will act kinda like wow. As you level and get better gear it will require more and more attack speed to reach the same number. Also I may be wrong, got in the beta after patch 10 so I have not been keeping a close eye on everything, but didn't they change many of the mechanics for the DH since then. On top of that I also read that the stat system was stripped down and changed quite a few times during the beta.
There are a few variables that have changed since then. It could be that gear does not have quite as much increase attack speed as it did in patch 4. The scaling with levels ratio could have changed.
So... all that aside. I was thinking about Combination Strike for my own build... do you guys think its a good passive if you only use 2 Spirit Gens? Its basicly the decision between some of the passives. I really want Seize the Initiative and Transcendence for now... other intresting passives would be Resolve, Sixth Sense and One with Everything. The question is, is 16% increased damage (2 Gens) worth the same as -30%dmg, 50%crit as dodge or resistances :/
I actually like the build the way it is. Personally not a fan of Tempest Rush but it is a powerful move when used correctly. You are already using Conviction. Between that and all the defensive passives you have you should be quite hard to kill. Also the ally, who is just sexy.
If you were to change something I would change Seize. Only because you are already lowering their damage with the mantra. Taking either more armor makes the dodge less of a good stat but taking more dodge makes armor less of a good stat. I guess it would come down to whatever gives less of a bonus and switch that.
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IIRC in the first few beta patches you could find the 2nd stage (4-5% attackspeed)... now its only 2-3% attackspeed. But I'm not sure. Then again if you add the best flat bonus 0.25 Attack/sec to a Fist Weapon with 1.4 base Attack/sec you end with 1.65 Attacks/sec.... now add 15% for DWing and the 48% for 3 Stacks from Obsidian WotHF (that is btw only with a lvl4 Rune... with a lvl 7 rune its even more attackspeed). Also if you add an Amulet with +17% Attackspeed you get even more Oo If you look at the list +% Attackspeed can spawn on Rings/Gloves/Amulet... thats 4 Items (2 Rings) that can spawn with +17% Attackspeed.
The only way to stop huge numbers is to implement a hard cap for haste... and I'm not sure if they would do something like this.
This video shows the rough visual affects to way of the hundred fists and a rough rank 7 rune. With obsidian the attack speed increases by 66% . That sounds too good to be true . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodrei871ps
So... all that aside. I was thinking about Combination Strike for my own build... do you guys think its a good passive if you only use 2 Spirit Gens? Its basicly the decision between some of the passives. I really want Seize the Initiative and Transcendence for now... other intresting passives would be Resolve, Sixth Sense and One with Everything. The question is, is 16% increased damage (2 Gens) worth the same as -30%dmg, 50%crit as dodge or resistances :/
Hmmmmmm that is a conundrum you have there. I would say you have things fine as is but if you had to switch one out I would switch resolve. Keep in mind I would only switch if I had to. With all of your skills getting resolve out and keeping it on your targets is easy.
Did you just change your signature ? Id say once again that it looks good and that theres no need to add combination strike
So... all that aside. I was thinking about Combination Strike for my own build... do you guys think its a good passive if you only use 2 Spirit Gens? Its basicly the decision between some of the passives. I really want Seize the Initiative and Transcendence for now... other intresting passives would be Resolve, Sixth Sense and One with Everything. The question is, is 16% increased damage (2 Gens) worth the same as -30%dmg, 50%crit as dodge or resistances :/
Sorry didn't see that post until just now. I would personally say it may not be the best thing to change. Only because you have the 2 generators. The buff is so short and it won't stack up that high that I can see it. Dropping some decent defense passive for a, quite small compared to other classes, dps passive I don't think is worth it.
I really feel Combination Strike only becomes worth it with 3+ generators. Still then it appears that 3 generators might also be the max because of utility purposes.
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I simulated a rotation using all those skills while doing on average 2 attacks every 3 seconds (0.75 attack/sec). I know people will say that you deal more than that with weapons having like 1-1.4 attack/sec. On the other hand, this will only happen versus dummy and never on the field since there is always time losses. My main goal was to check out if rotations where fine and if there where any fury issues. The average results for buffs and debuffs (applied all the time and as AOE effect for debuffs) and damage output (over 30 secs.) are as follows :
Damage increase: 54% (This could actually be higher (maybe 65-70% or so) with better attack/sec ratio)
Damage reduction: 70% AOE
Attack speed reduction: 35% AOE
Movement reduction: 50% AOE
Healing during the 30 secs: 85408 HP
Single target physical damage: 3210% (includes bleeding damage)
AOE physical damage: 2847% (Includes vortex damage but not exploding damage from explosive palm)
AOE holy damage: 1783%
Single target bleeding damage: 1500%
AOE vortex damage: 1667%
The fury generation is a bit higher than the fury spent so that you could probably throw 1 more CS or reapply mantra more often for increased damage if you get higher attack/sec ratio.
I would have to compare this with a common 2 generator build to get a better output on the viability of such a build but it seems fair enough to me. Of course i could've made some math errors but it still gives a good idea.
Actually i made a mistake with the dmg increase somewhere in my spread sheet and it would be a higher average damage increase (74%). Given this, damage would be higher accordingly. So this would make damage output approximately 20% better than what it is.
I simulated a rotation using all those skills while doing on average 2 attacks every 3 seconds (0.75 attack/sec). I know people will say that you deal more than that with weapons having like 1-1.4 attack/sec. On the other hand, this will only happen versus dummy and never on the field since there is always time losses. My main goal was to check out if rotations where fine and if there where any fury issues. The average results for buffs and debuffs (applied all the time and as AOE effect for debuffs) and damage output (over 30 secs.) are as follows :
Damage increase: 54% (This could actually be higher (maybe 65-70% or so) with better attack/sec ratio)
Damage reduction: 70% AOE
Attack speed reduction: 35% AOE
Movement reduction: 50% AOE
Healing during the 30 secs: 85408 HP
Single target physical damage: 3210% (includes bleeding damage)
AOE physical damage: 2847% (Includes vortex damage but not exploding damage from explosive palm)
AOE holy damage: 1783%
Single target bleeding damage: 1500%
AOE vortex damage: 1667%
The fury generation is a bit higher than the fury spent so that you could probably throw 1 more CS or reapply mantra more often for increased damage if you get higher attack/sec ratio.
I would have to compare this with a common 2 generator build to get a better output on the viability of such a build but it seems fair enough to me. Of course i could've made some math errors but it still gives a good idea.
I like the theory and the numbers are quite impressive. Still I feel you may be better off with something other than Cyclone Strike. I understand it is a useful move for keeping things close to you but I feel you can do more potential damage or more CC or more healing with something else. The utility is nice for AOE but when you already have 4 moves that only output damage (and some debuffs) I say you might want to change your idea of "getting enemies closer for more damage" to something else. Especially since I bet having an "oh shit" button would be very very handy. Breath of Heaven runed for fear, or something else.
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With the rotation i used, you can keep all buffs always active and you can do at least 4 cyclone strike in a 30 sec delay which basically means you generate more than 10 fury/sec and all this with 0.75 attacks per second.
Unless i am missing something, i don't see any advantage in using more than 4 fury generators. Another way around with 4 generators would be imho to drop mantra of conviction for mantra of healing and use wave of light instead of cyclone strike. Then, we don't really know for sure about mantras having some sort of cooldown and the possibility of reseting it for the activation bonus effect. Maybe it would be possible to use lashing tail kick in a 4 spirit generator build and use the extra spirit to reapply mantras for the activation bonus effect (Mantra of healing indigo seems nice). Tempest rush seems to me a bad choice because it is channeling and you would most likely loose your buff effects if you where to channel for too long. 7SS's as the same problem and cooldown seems too long to use in such a build because i think you would probably end up not being able to spend enough of fury.
Afterwards, it seems like it would be down to a 3 spirit generator build which would probably work great and there would probably be a lot of possible builds. Personnaly i think breath of heaven could work in a 4 spirit generator build but i just don't like the skill for the obvious reasons Tenhi stated in his last post. But maybe it could work just right, time will tell.
I was trying to find the actual speed of those fury building attacks but just could'nt find them. The 0.75 attack/sec was for all 3 attacks from spirit generator. If you tell me that there is no way i can pull that much, i would definetly need to review my spread sheet and do some adjustments.
I like the theory and the numbers are quite impressive. Still I feel you may be better off with something other than Cyclone Strike. I understand it is a useful move for keeping things close to you but I feel you can do more potential damage or more CC or more healing with something else. The utility is nice for AOE but when you already have 4 moves that only output damage (and some debuffs) I say you might want to change your idea of "getting enemies closer for more damage" to something else. Especially since I bet having an "oh shit" button would be very very handy. Breath of Heaven runed for fear, or something else.
Well Cyclone Strike is a pretty good heal. It heals more than Breath of Heaven AND deals 275%dmg... it also has a larger range (24y vs 12y). The only way for BoH to be better (and that is only heal wise) is with the Indigo Rune. Then again you now heal more with BoH but still lack the 275% dmg. Also with the bigger Range its easier to heal you mates... if you think about it Cyclone Strike wins in every possible way. The only drawback is that you need 75 Spirit to use it... but then again if its your only Spirit Spender saving Spirit isnt that hard
Not saying it was that hard but there are more efficient means of getting heals. Though I was more concerned with the lack of a good means of keeping alive aside form the debuffs and the passives. It is all good that he is doing more damage, and while I like Cyclone Strike I can see moments when you pull a bit more than you can handle. With this build the only means of staying alive in that situation would be to pop a potion, dps and pray that you don't die. Especially if a mob that you want to keep away happens to be within the radius of Cyclone Strike. You would have to be careful whether to pull it to get the heal or avoid it and take your chances.
I'm not trying to say the build is bad or anything. The damage output from his math, although we know the speeds are a little different, he can put out some serious numbers. The build is solid but what I worry about is the sustainability and survive ability. Melee need to worry about surviving much more than any other class and I feel focusing too much on trying to make a damage build work will sacrifice the needed defense in the long run.
I still stand by 3 generators being a solid build just because of the extra utility, but that might just be my take on it. There is a reason why I only like to tank in melee classes (or stealth).
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I was trying to find the actual speed of those fury building attacks but just could'nt find them. The 0.75 attack/sec was for all 3 attacks from spirit generator. If you tell me that there is no way i can pull that much, i would definetly need to review my spread sheet and do some adjustments.
Wait what? So you assume that you do 0.75 Rotations/sec. And not 0.75 Attacks/sec? Thats basically 0.75*3 = 2.25 Attacks/sec? Well than you generate more Spirit... (and its Spirit and not Fury... that Fury thing is confusing^^). And yes assuming 2.25 Attacks/sec is ok. If you use Fist Weapons and dualwield you get up to 1.61 Attacks/sec and so you need 2.25/1.61 = ~40% Attackspeed from Items. That sounds ok considering that the highest lvl 60 Affix gives you 17%.
Also you were looking for "actual" attackspeeds of the Spirit Gens well you can look here: http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189 that are all the Spirit Gens that are in the beta... so you have to assume something for Sweeping Winds
Not to mention the attack speed from using some spirit generators. So with the right spirit generators you can get that little bit faster meaning more spirit per second and thus using cyclone strike in that build could be used that bit more. There are still Some variables we don't know. like the attack speed on spirit generators.
There is a downside about CS and i can see it too. On the other hand, don't you think that this pulling could be good if you were to know the distance perfectly and just pull what you wanna pull? If for exemple, there are a big pack of mobs, you can position yourself in such a way that CS cuts the pack in half or something so that you can get rid of this first half before the other half reaches you. For D3 newbies like us, CS could definetly in the beginning dig our grave, but once you have figured what 24 yards is, you could probably use this to your advantage.
There is a downside about CS and i can see it too. On the other hand, don't you think that this pulling could be good if you were to know the distance perfectly and just pull what you wanna pull? If for exemple, there are a big pack of mobs, you can position yourself in such a way that CS cuts the pack in half or something so that you can get rid of this first half before the other half reaches you. For D3 newbies like us, CS could definetly in the beginning dig our grave, but once you have figured what 24 yards is, you could probably use this to your advantage.
Compressing the enemies is going to so helpful in maximizing the damage of my crippling wave and exploding palm generators. You are always gambling with getting overrun which means you need to planning your moves in advance, know exactly how many enemies you ca successfully take on.
There is a downside about CS and i can see it too. On the other hand, don't you think that this pulling could be good if you were to know the distance perfectly and just pull what you wanna pull? If for exemple, there are a big pack of mobs, you can position yourself in such a way that CS cuts the pack in half or something so that you can get rid of this first half before the other half reaches you. For D3 newbies like us, CS could definetly in the beginning dig our grave, but once you have figured what 24 yards is, you could probably use this to your advantage.
Compressing the enemies is going to so helpful in maximizing the damage of my crippling wave and exploding palm generators. You are always gambling with getting overrun which means you need to planning your moves in advance, know exactly how many enemies you ca successfully take on.
Someone who as mastered the game could possibly take advange of this and as you said, it helps for both exploding palm and crippling wave. I like builds which take some planning, they are the most interesting to play.
There is a downside about CS and i can see it too. On the other hand, don't you think that this pulling could be good if you were to know the distance perfectly and just pull what you wanna pull? If for exemple, there are a big pack of mobs, you can position yourself in such a way that CS cuts the pack in half or something so that you can get rid of this first half before the other half reaches you. For D3 newbies like us, CS could definetly in the beginning dig our grave, but once you have figured what 24 yards is, you could probably use this to your advantage.
Compressing the enemies is going to so helpful in maximizing the damage of my crippling wave and exploding palm generators. You are always gambling with getting overrun which means you need to planning your moves in advance, know exactly how many enemies you ca successfully take on.
Game's not about damage it's about survival. None of us really know how hard this game will be but I have a strong feeling that it will require every type of class have to seriously take into account survival. The original point was not if Cyclone Strike is powerful. It was weighing the option of adding some different form of sustain that would do more for less. We understand the move is powerful and that pulling the enemies is a great idea but that leads to the processes of min-maxing stats to get damage. Impressive numbers mean one thing, but a good player survives to DPS another day.
Remember you don't do damage if you die my friend.
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At your point about attack speed. Diminishing returns. They already said they do not want attack speed running wild like it did in D2 so I don't think we will be able to achieve anything too much past 2sec
Edit: this is attack speed on the naked weapon not what the skill does to it.
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Sorry had to fix that table.
As for your mantra of healing issue. thats a tough one... the golden rune, soothing breeze seems nice. the extra spirit may be useful and could at lest help fuel the mantra. Or boon of protection seems a bit scary. a shield for 25% of your health.
Im blaming that on my dyslexia >_> i punched it in my calculator and I get the answer you said. I must have messed something up.
Oh gosh thank goodness I saved the build. I did not even notice that I had not posted it.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UiejXg!ZWg!cZZZcY
Guess I'm a little tired after the long day. I'm gonna head out for the night, but I assure you I will be back
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Sorry had to fix that table.
yea... my girlfriend would not be too pleased if I slept through the movie marathon tomorrow. Im out for now too. Pick this up again same time tomorrow ? xD
Your build looks good to me. I may be a bit tiered to catch something.
My lvl 13 DH even with stacking attack speed is having trouble breaking 2aps. I have a feeling it will act kinda like wow. As you level and get better gear it will require more and more attack speed to reach the same number. Also I may be wrong, got in the beta after patch 10 so I have not been keeping a close eye on everything, but didn't they change many of the mechanics for the DH since then. On top of that I also read that the stat system was stripped down and changed quite a few times during the beta.
I still don't feel the extra 16% dps is worth loosing two skill slots. You lose a huge amount of utility. Also dropping only one of those punches for the damage Mantra would provide more damage. Instead of getting 40% for all 5 punches you will get 52% for 4 punches and the mantra.
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For the extra 16% in damage there are better easier ways to get that damage and have more survivability.
I actually like the build the way it is. Personally not a fan of Tempest Rush but it is a powerful move when used correctly. You are already using Conviction. Between that and all the defensive passives you have you should be quite hard to kill. Also the ally, who is just sexy.
If you were to change something I would change Seize. Only because you are already lowering their damage with the mantra. Taking either more armor makes the dodge less of a good stat but taking more dodge makes armor less of a good stat. I guess it would come down to whatever gives less of a bonus and switch that.
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Sorry had to fix that table.
This video shows the rough visual affects to way of the hundred fists and a rough rank 7 rune. With obsidian the attack speed increases by 66% . That sounds too good to be true .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yodrei871ps
Hmmmmmm that is a conundrum you have there. I would say you have things fine as is but if you had to switch one out I would switch resolve. Keep in mind I would only switch if I had to. With all of your skills getting resolve out and keeping it on your targets is easy.
Did you just change your signature ? Id say once again that it looks good and that theres no need to add combination strike
Sorry didn't see that post until just now. I would personally say it may not be the best thing to change. Only because you have the 2 generators. The buff is so short and it won't stack up that high that I can see it. Dropping some decent defense passive for a, quite small compared to other classes, dps passive I don't think is worth it.
I really feel Combination Strike only becomes worth it with 3+ generators. Still then it appears that 3 generators might also be the max because of utility purposes.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#chUeRW!UWg!ZaZcac
I simulated a rotation using all those skills while doing on average 2 attacks every 3 seconds (0.75 attack/sec). I know people will say that you deal more than that with weapons having like 1-1.4 attack/sec. On the other hand, this will only happen versus dummy and never on the field since there is always time losses. My main goal was to check out if rotations where fine and if there where any fury issues. The average results for buffs and debuffs (applied all the time and as AOE effect for debuffs) and damage output (over 30 secs.) are as follows :
Damage increase: 54% (This could actually be higher (maybe 65-70% or so) with better attack/sec ratio)
Damage reduction: 70% AOE
Attack speed reduction: 35% AOE
Movement reduction: 50% AOE
Healing during the 30 secs: 85408 HP
Single target physical damage: 3210% (includes bleeding damage)
AOE physical damage: 2847% (Includes vortex damage but not exploding damage from explosive palm)
AOE holy damage: 1783%
Single target bleeding damage: 1500%
AOE vortex damage: 1667%
The fury generation is a bit higher than the fury spent so that you could probably throw 1 more CS or reapply mantra more often for increased damage if you get higher attack/sec ratio.
I would have to compare this with a common 2 generator build to get a better output on the viability of such a build but it seems fair enough to me. Of course i could've made some math errors but it still gives a good idea.
I like the theory and the numbers are quite impressive. Still I feel you may be better off with something other than Cyclone Strike. I understand it is a useful move for keeping things close to you but I feel you can do more potential damage or more CC or more healing with something else. The utility is nice for AOE but when you already have 4 moves that only output damage (and some debuffs) I say you might want to change your idea of "getting enemies closer for more damage" to something else. Especially since I bet having an "oh shit" button would be very very handy. Breath of Heaven runed for fear, or something else.
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Sorry had to fix that table.
Unless i am missing something, i don't see any advantage in using more than 4 fury generators. Another way around with 4 generators would be imho to drop mantra of conviction for mantra of healing and use wave of light instead of cyclone strike. Then, we don't really know for sure about mantras having some sort of cooldown and the possibility of reseting it for the activation bonus effect. Maybe it would be possible to use lashing tail kick in a 4 spirit generator build and use the extra spirit to reapply mantras for the activation bonus effect (Mantra of healing indigo seems nice). Tempest rush seems to me a bad choice because it is channeling and you would most likely loose your buff effects if you where to channel for too long. 7SS's as the same problem and cooldown seems too long to use in such a build because i think you would probably end up not being able to spend enough of fury.
Afterwards, it seems like it would be down to a 3 spirit generator build which would probably work great and there would probably be a lot of possible builds. Personnaly i think breath of heaven could work in a 4 spirit generator build but i just don't like the skill for the obvious reasons Tenhi stated in his last post. But maybe it could work just right, time will tell.
Not saying it was that hard but there are more efficient means of getting heals. Though I was more concerned with the lack of a good means of keeping alive aside form the debuffs and the passives. It is all good that he is doing more damage, and while I like Cyclone Strike I can see moments when you pull a bit more than you can handle. With this build the only means of staying alive in that situation would be to pop a potion, dps and pray that you don't die. Especially if a mob that you want to keep away happens to be within the radius of Cyclone Strike. You would have to be careful whether to pull it to get the heal or avoid it and take your chances.
I'm not trying to say the build is bad or anything. The damage output from his math, although we know the speeds are a little different, he can put out some serious numbers. The build is solid but what I worry about is the sustainability and survive ability. Melee need to worry about surviving much more than any other class and I feel focusing too much on trying to make a damage build work will sacrifice the needed defense in the long run.
I still stand by 3 generators being a solid build just because of the extra utility, but that might just be my take on it. There is a reason why I only like to tank in melee classes (or stealth).
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Sorry had to fix that table.
Compressing the enemies is going to so helpful in maximizing the damage of my crippling wave and exploding palm generators. You are always gambling with getting overrun which means you need to planning your moves in advance, know exactly how many enemies you ca successfully take on.
Someone who as mastered the game could possibly take advange of this and as you said, it helps for both exploding palm and crippling wave. I like builds which take some planning, they are the most interesting to play.
Game's not about damage it's about survival. None of us really know how hard this game will be but I have a strong feeling that it will require every type of class have to seriously take into account survival. The original point was not if Cyclone Strike is powerful. It was weighing the option of adding some different form of sustain that would do more for less. We understand the move is powerful and that pulling the enemies is a great idea but that leads to the processes of min-maxing stats to get damage. Impressive numbers mean one thing, but a good player survives to DPS another day.
Remember you don't do damage if you die my friend.
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Sorry had to fix that table.