I'm interested in why people become vegans. Care to shed some light Kenorwoks?
I do it for the chicks...That's a vegan joke, haha <_<
ANYWAYS, Well initially I became vegetarian because, as proletaria implied, I felt bad for animals and how they are treated on industrial farms and for me personally the ends don't justify the means.
After six or so months of being vegetarian, I realized (or rather came of of denial) that animals used for things besides meat get treated just as bad. So I decided that I was going to go all in.
So without being too preachy or anything, I pretty much just felt like, in my opinion, the industry standards cross so many lines that I don't want to support.
Shortly after becoming vegan I learned about a lot of the other benefits to being vegan (which I won't put in this post, but if you want to hear my opinion just ask in this thread and I will tell you what I know.
Just to avoid anyone getting offended or something, I do not think I am better than anyone who eats meat or whatever. It is a life choice that I choose to make, just like eating meat is something people choose to eat. I mean, I would be really happy if everyone was vegan, but I am not going to get upset at anyone for eating meat or drinking milk because it's just a matter of opinion. I don't think you are a terrible person for not being vegan or something.
Don't get me wrong, I will strongly protest anyone who says the way animals are treated (on average, I know there are good farms out here) is acceptable. I am against people eating meat, but I don't interrupt people to let them know that I oppose what they are putting into their body.
The only thing I avidly show my disapproval of to my family and friends is KFC, everything they stand for is wrong on so many levels. They market their company as caring about things like breast cancer awareness, and while their adds may raise awareness, there are studies that are finding correlations between KFC, and similar chemically filled fast food, causing cancer among TONS of other more wide spread health problems that affect way more of the population than breast cancer does.
This is getting really long winded though, so I should probably stop!
So Kenorwoks, if I may ask, your weight is normal/stable and you are able to do stuff like hard work and lenghty exercises like normal people?
I am around 150lb 6'0, a little skinny but I have always been skinny. I am 21 now and when I graduated high school, before being vegan, I was 5'11 140ish.
As for working/sustained physical activity, I work third shift at Target on the logistics team where I pull boxes all over the store and then sort them into the aisles, so lots of walking and lifting. I am also a pretty avid swimmer during the summer and although I don't anymore, I used to run a few miles every day less than a year ago. My normal mile time was about 4 mins and 30ish seconds.
I don't go to a gym or anything or lift weights so I can't give you any numbers to compare to the average, but that's just because it's not really anything I am into, not because I lack the ability.
Vege/Vegan folks can have a healthy diet (it's just a little harder to come by, and costs more than the average calorie fix) and I know quite a few of them. From what i've read, it's also quite possible to be in extremely good shape as a vegan:
I don't find the practice rediculous for anyone who can afford it or feels morally compelled to try and eschew animal products. That said, I have never felt that exploitation of animals was something that could be completely avoided. Imagining a world without any animal cruelty is to imagine a world where experimental chemicals are drugs are tested on poor human beings and a world where some huge populations are incredibly disadvantaged in terms of finding a reliable food source. The devlopment of human civilization is essentially yolked (pun intended) to animal husbandry and the advances that paralleled its development. I don't think anyone could seriously argue we could continue to advance our own species without it.
Obviously there is a time and place where we can use animals for the greater good, but it's very hard to do draw a line where it begins and where it ends, especially when you are talking scientific experimentation and things like that. I mean, I can't really even tell you where I stand on this because I do think our scientific progress is very much dependent on research involving animals, I would have to give my opinion on case to case and even then I would have mixed emotions about it.
Things like testing make-up products and testing food even on animals is a little bit extreme.
When it comes to third world hunger, starvation, survival and the well being of a population of course eating meat in that situation is something I couldn't personally oppose.
Human civilization has always eaten meat and animal products and we would have never made it this far without it, but did we ever consume it so often and in such large quantities? Did we have the information about food we have now?
At this day in age, and with our knowledge of food that eating meat is not necessary to sustain a healthy diet, if you have the resources and means to get what you need, which it isn't really very difficult anymore.
Vege/Vegan folks can have a healthy diet (it's just a little harder to come by, and costs more than the average calorie fix) and I know quite a few of them. From what i've read, it's also quite possible to be in extremely good shape as a vegan:
I don't find the practice rediculous for anyone who can afford it or feels morally compelled to try and eschew animal products. That said, I have never felt that exploitation of animals was something that could be completely avoided. Imagining a world without any animal cruelty is to imagine a world where experimental chemicals are drugs are tested on poor human beings and a world where some huge populations are incredibly disadvantaged in terms of finding a reliable food source. The devlopment of human civilization is essentially yolked (pun intended) to animal husbandry and the advances that paralleled its development. I don't think anyone could seriously argue we could continue to advance our own species without it.
He looks like he's about to cry.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
It's simply the way I was raised. Plus meat is yummy.
Anyway, I have no problem with people who are vegan or vegetarian. My uncle is a Vegan and is a good man. I just couldn't ever do it. Meat is too good for me to give up.
Obviously there is a time and place where we can use animals for the greater good, but it's very hard to do draw a line where it begins and where it ends, especially when you are talking scientific experimentation and things like that. I mean, I can't really even tell you where I stand on this because I do think our scientific progress is very much dependent on research involving animals, I would have to give my opinion on case to case and even then I would have mixed emotions about it.
I'm not saying we should take no heed about such experiments, but it's an ethical debate that shouldn't stop or start at "it's un-ethical, the end."
When it comes to third world hunger, starvation, survival and the well being of a population of course eating meat in that situation is something I couldn't personally oppose.
Human civilization has always eaten meat and animal products and we would have never made it this far without it, but did we ever consume it so often and in such large quantities? Did we have the information about food we have now?
As I alluded to, it's a regional issue. Some locations would be almost entirely without a reliable food source in the absence of animal protien (basically, all desert and polar climates, plus a few rather infertile grassy areas that are predominanted by herding). No ammount of technology i'm aware of could economically feed the people of the artic, the asian steppe, the african plains, etc. with vegetarian (much less vegan) meals.
At this day in age, and with our knowledge of food that eating meat is not necessary to sustain a healthy diet, if you have the resources and means to get what you need, which it isn't really very difficult anymore.
It's a noble choice, but I don't think it's quite an imperative for anyone who has the means. If there were a compelling reason to increase agricultural yeild and cut back on animal food production to increase over-all health and meet or exceed food demand, I think it would gain traction. Right now it just feels like a moral crusade. I honestly believe PITA has done more to damage the possible growth of vegetarian/vegan eating habbits than the cattle industry (for example). Rarely do I ever have the urge to eat a steak more than when i'm in the company of someone who finds fishing to be more repugnant than human genocide.
Although, I stay away from fastfood. But I'm pretty sure Longhornes isn't getting their cattle from factory farms so I enjoy my steak.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I just want to point out if you guys forgo eating meat because the animals are treated badly that means production slows down and animals will have to suffer longer before they make it to someones plate. I like them to be put out of their misery as soon as possible.
Like veal, yummy.
In all seriousness though I could never go without meat. It's too delicious, though I do understand some of the health benefits of it.
I would love to be vegetarian, but my country's main export is Cows.
Meat is cheaper than vegetables here, so it's reaaaally hard to quit meat and become a veggie.
Although, I would be vegetarian for the health benefits, and not for ideology or philosophical reasons. Cows here are raised in the wild, free from unnecessary suffering, and I'm at peace with that.
I'm not saying we should take no heed about such experiments, but it's an ethical debate that shouldn't stop or start at "it's un-ethical, the end."
Overall, I think scientific advancement trumps many things, but I do think we should find alternate way to test products that involves less use of animals. I can't give you an idea on what way that could be, but it is something I feel we can achieve or at least work toward.
As I alluded to, it's a regional issue. Some locations would be almost entirely without a reliable food source in the absence of animal protien (basically, all desert and polar climates, plus a few rather infertile grassy areas that are predominanted by herding). No ammount of technology i'm aware of could economically feed the people of the artic, the asian steppe, the african plains, etc. with vegetarian (much less vegan) meals.
Right, but if the wealthy nations could cut back on their consumption/production of meat and instead made more exportable crops with our land we could send these to nations in need to add to their diets. Also, think of the amount of grain and corn we feed to animals of factory farms, if we used those crops to produce food for us, we would have even more food to go around.
I'm not arguing against the fact that there many many nations that have a need for animal products and in any case that it is necessary for the health of well-being of a population I have nothing against them using what they need to survive and maintain a healthy diet.
It's a noble choice, but I don't think it's quite an imperative for anyone who has the means. If there were a compelling reason to increase agricultural yeild and cut back on animal food production to increase over-all health and meet or exceed food demand, I think it would gain traction. Right now it just feels like a moral crusade. I honestly believe PITA has done more to damage the possible growth of vegetarian/vegan eating habbits than the cattle industry (for example). Rarely do I ever have the urge to eat a steak more than when i'm in the company of someone who finds fishing to be more repugnant than human genocide.
First off, I would just like to say that PETA is an extremest group and in no way reflects the normal degree of ideas and beliefs of the majority of vegans and vegetarians. I 100% agree with you about PETA being counter productive.
Anyways, I think there are many reasons to increase plant agriculture and cut back on animal agriculture. One of the biggest reasons is that meat has a lot of negative health effects that have been linked to it, especially when it is consumed as often as it is in the U.S. such as heart disease, atherosclerosis, colon cancer (and recently they are starting to think other forms of cancer as well), endometriosis. Also, products like milk and eggs have been linked to similar health effects. Couple that with all the chemicals they use to beef up the animals on factory farms, and you have something pretty unhealthy.
Another very good reason is the environmental impact on which animal agriculture has. It produces more green house gases than all forms of travel (cars, planes, trains, jets) combined and is often responsible for water pollution, deforestation for animal feed production/room for more farm land. There are many other environmental impacts as well if you choose to look around.
I am not even saying we should end all farms, and if you are going to buy meat you should ALWAYS buy from local farmers who give their animals healthy diets and do not inject them with a load of chemicals.
I just want to point out if you guys forgo eating meat because the animals are treated badly that means production slows down and animals will have to suffer longer before they make it to someones plate. I like them to be put out of their misery as soon as possible.
Like veal, yummy.
In all seriousness though I could never go without meat. It's too delicious, though I do understand some of the health benefits of it.
well, one person not buying meat or animal products isn't going to make much of an impact but if a large number of people do it, animal product sales will go down which would cause the companies to produce less, which is in the general direction of what i want to achieve.
I would love to be vegetarian, but my country's main export is Cows.
Meat is cheaper than vegetables here, so it's reaaaally hard to quit meat and become a veggie.
Although, I would be vegetarian for the health benefits, and not for ideology or philosophical reasons. Cows here are raised in the wild, free from unnecessary suffering, and I'm at peace with that.
I'm not sure about your country and how it compares to where I live, but I will tell you about my situation and maybe you will be able to relate a little bit.
I live in Ohio, USA which is farmland more or less, and even though I live in one of the larger cities in Ohio, there are not many options. Meat is fairly cheap around here, and vegan options are a little bit pricier.
I find most of the stuff I eat in the health food section of stores and I am lucky enough to live only 45 minutes from Ann Arbor which has a large vegetarian/vegan population so I occasionally go there to buy some new things that I never see around here.
Walmart carries a surprising amount of vegan stuff, but it may be different where you live.
If you are doing it for the health reasons, maybe just try to cut back and have one day a week be "vegan/vegetarian day" or if you already do that, just add an extra day. So if it would cause you financial problems, maybe this is an alternative option to going all out. It doesn't have to be an all in thing, even cutting back will get you toward your goal.
Also, in case anyone was wondering, I was raised in a meat eating very authentic Polish family. We make our own kielbasa, we sing the kishka song, call our grandpa dzia dzia, my family owns a shop in polish town and sells all the things you would expect to find. On top of that my step-grandma(my actual busha died before I was born) was Polish/Italian and she owned and made the sauce for a very successful pizza place around town.
I haven't seen any of this money anywhere, but I have heard a rumor that my dzia dzia owns a sold gold bar.
More to the point, I was not raised vegan being told a bunch of lies or anything. I wasn't influenced into make the decision or anything and my family thinks I'm crazy.
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I have been vegan for a little over two years and I was vegetarian six months before that.
(In before this becomes a meat is murder thread.)
so 75% of the time im veggie. not counting byproducts like milk.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I do it for the chicks...That's a vegan joke, haha <_<
ANYWAYS, Well initially I became vegetarian because, as proletaria implied, I felt bad for animals and how they are treated on industrial farms and for me personally the ends don't justify the means.
After six or so months of being vegetarian, I realized (or rather came of of denial) that animals used for things besides meat get treated just as bad. So I decided that I was going to go all in.
So without being too preachy or anything, I pretty much just felt like, in my opinion, the industry standards cross so many lines that I don't want to support.
Shortly after becoming vegan I learned about a lot of the other benefits to being vegan (which I won't put in this post, but if you want to hear my opinion just ask in this thread and I will tell you what I know.
Just to avoid anyone getting offended or something, I do not think I am better than anyone who eats meat or whatever. It is a life choice that I choose to make, just like eating meat is something people choose to eat. I mean, I would be really happy if everyone was vegan, but I am not going to get upset at anyone for eating meat or drinking milk because it's just a matter of opinion. I don't think you are a terrible person for not being vegan or something.
Don't get me wrong, I will strongly protest anyone who says the way animals are treated (on average, I know there are good farms out here) is acceptable. I am against people eating meat, but I don't interrupt people to let them know that I oppose what they are putting into their body.
The only thing I avidly show my disapproval of to my family and friends is KFC, everything they stand for is wrong on so many levels. They market their company as caring about things like breast cancer awareness, and while their adds may raise awareness, there are studies that are finding correlations between KFC, and similar chemically filled fast food, causing cancer among TONS of other more wide spread health problems that affect way more of the population than breast cancer does.
This is getting really long winded though, so I should probably stop!
I can get it all, rice, dark green veggies, soy milk, and grains are all good sources of iron.
I am around 150lb 6'0, a little skinny but I have always been skinny. I am 21 now and when I graduated high school, before being vegan, I was 5'11 140ish.
As for working/sustained physical activity, I work third shift at Target on the logistics team where I pull boxes all over the store and then sort them into the aisles, so lots of walking and lifting. I am also a pretty avid swimmer during the summer and although I don't anymore, I used to run a few miles every day less than a year ago. My normal mile time was about 4 mins and 30ish seconds.
I don't go to a gym or anything or lift weights so I can't give you any numbers to compare to the average, but that's just because it's not really anything I am into, not because I lack the ability.
I don't find the practice rediculous for anyone who can afford it or feels morally compelled to try and eschew animal products. That said, I have never felt that exploitation of animals was something that could be completely avoided. Imagining a world without any animal cruelty is to imagine a world where experimental chemicals are drugs are tested on poor human beings and a world where some huge populations are incredibly disadvantaged in terms of finding a reliable food source. The devlopment of human civilization is essentially yolked (pun intended) to animal husbandry and the advances that paralleled its development. I don't think anyone could seriously argue we could continue to advance our own species without it.
i feel bad for them too
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Things like testing make-up products and testing food even on animals is a little bit extreme.
When it comes to third world hunger, starvation, survival and the well being of a population of course eating meat in that situation is something I couldn't personally oppose.
Human civilization has always eaten meat and animal products and we would have never made it this far without it, but did we ever consume it so often and in such large quantities? Did we have the information about food we have now?
At this day in age, and with our knowledge of food that eating meat is not necessary to sustain a healthy diet, if you have the resources and means to get what you need, which it isn't really very difficult anymore.
He looks like he's about to cry.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Every meal I eat, I always have meat.
It's simply the way I was raised. Plus meat is yummy.
Anyway, I have no problem with people who are vegan or vegetarian. My uncle is a Vegan and is a good man. I just couldn't ever do it. Meat is too good for me to give up.
I'm not saying we should take no heed about such experiments, but it's an ethical debate that shouldn't stop or start at "it's un-ethical, the end."
As I alluded to, it's a regional issue. Some locations would be almost entirely without a reliable food source in the absence of animal protien (basically, all desert and polar climates, plus a few rather infertile grassy areas that are predominanted by herding). No ammount of technology i'm aware of could economically feed the people of the artic, the asian steppe, the african plains, etc. with vegetarian (much less vegan) meals.
It's a noble choice, but I don't think it's quite an imperative for anyone who has the means. If there were a compelling reason to increase agricultural yeild and cut back on animal food production to increase over-all health and meet or exceed food demand, I think it would gain traction. Right now it just feels like a moral crusade. I honestly believe PITA has done more to damage the possible growth of vegetarian/vegan eating habbits than the cattle industry (for example). Rarely do I ever have the urge to eat a steak more than when i'm in the company of someone who finds fishing to be more repugnant than human genocide.
Rawwrrr. I'mma murderer!
Although, I stay away from fastfood. But I'm pretty sure Longhornes isn't getting their cattle from factory farms so I enjoy my steak.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Like veal, yummy.
In all seriousness though I could never go without meat. It's too delicious, though I do understand some of the health benefits of it.
Meat is cheaper than vegetables here, so it's reaaaally hard to quit meat and become a veggie.
Although, I would be vegetarian for the health benefits, and not for ideology or philosophical reasons. Cows here are raised in the wild, free from unnecessary suffering, and I'm at peace with that.
Overall, I think scientific advancement trumps many things, but I do think we should find alternate way to test products that involves less use of animals. I can't give you an idea on what way that could be, but it is something I feel we can achieve or at least work toward.
Right, but if the wealthy nations could cut back on their consumption/production of meat and instead made more exportable crops with our land we could send these to nations in need to add to their diets. Also, think of the amount of grain and corn we feed to animals of factory farms, if we used those crops to produce food for us, we would have even more food to go around.
I'm not arguing against the fact that there many many nations that have a need for animal products and in any case that it is necessary for the health of well-being of a population I have nothing against them using what they need to survive and maintain a healthy diet.
First off, I would just like to say that PETA is an extremest group and in no way reflects the normal degree of ideas and beliefs of the majority of vegans and vegetarians. I 100% agree with you about PETA being counter productive.
Anyways, I think there are many reasons to increase plant agriculture and cut back on animal agriculture. One of the biggest reasons is that meat has a lot of negative health effects that have been linked to it, especially when it is consumed as often as it is in the U.S. such as heart disease, atherosclerosis, colon cancer (and recently they are starting to think other forms of cancer as well), endometriosis. Also, products like milk and eggs have been linked to similar health effects. Couple that with all the chemicals they use to beef up the animals on factory farms, and you have something pretty unhealthy.
Another very good reason is the environmental impact on which animal agriculture has. It produces more green house gases than all forms of travel (cars, planes, trains, jets) combined and is often responsible for water pollution, deforestation for animal feed production/room for more farm land. There are many other environmental impacts as well if you choose to look around.
I am not even saying we should end all farms, and if you are going to buy meat you should ALWAYS buy from local farmers who give their animals healthy diets and do not inject them with a load of chemicals.
well, one person not buying meat or animal products isn't going to make much of an impact but if a large number of people do it, animal product sales will go down which would cause the companies to produce less, which is in the general direction of what i want to achieve.
I'm not sure about your country and how it compares to where I live, but I will tell you about my situation and maybe you will be able to relate a little bit.
I live in Ohio, USA which is farmland more or less, and even though I live in one of the larger cities in Ohio, there are not many options. Meat is fairly cheap around here, and vegan options are a little bit pricier.
I find most of the stuff I eat in the health food section of stores and I am lucky enough to live only 45 minutes from Ann Arbor which has a large vegetarian/vegan population so I occasionally go there to buy some new things that I never see around here.
Walmart carries a surprising amount of vegan stuff, but it may be different where you live.
If you are doing it for the health reasons, maybe just try to cut back and have one day a week be "vegan/vegetarian day" or if you already do that, just add an extra day. So if it would cause you financial problems, maybe this is an alternative option to going all out. It doesn't have to be an all in thing, even cutting back will get you toward your goal.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Also, in case anyone was wondering, I was raised in a meat eating very authentic Polish family. We make our own kielbasa, we sing the kishka song, call our grandpa dzia dzia, my family owns a shop in polish town and sells all the things you would expect to find. On top of that my step-grandma(my actual busha died before I was born) was Polish/Italian and she owned and made the sauce for a very successful pizza place around town.
I haven't seen any of this money anywhere, but I have heard a rumor that my dzia dzia owns a sold gold bar.
More to the point, I was not raised vegan being told a bunch of lies or anything. I wasn't influenced into make the decision or anything and my family thinks I'm crazy.