Help me get this soulstone plan straight. As far as I know The stones were created by the to contain the prime evils on sanctuary. And so, one by one, they were lured out of the burning hells and trapped. But, the soulstones where actually a double cross set up by Izual, as a way to cheat around the worldstone.
Now, we have the three prime evils stones destroyed on the hellforge, Azmodan and Belial are besieging sanctuary. Belial through cult influence, Azmodan through a direct invasion. And the new cinematic tells us he's after the black soulstone. Which is apparently the key to all of this. And that he wasn't fooled.
As you may remember, it's is extremely difficult for powerful demons to be on sanctuary, they required host bodies, and even then were weakened. That must still be true even with the world stone destoryed, otherwise why would Azmodan care about the blackstone? Based on it's size and appearance compared to the other soulstones, it's possible it will allow Azmodan to manifest in full glory on sanctuary. However, another possibility is that Azmodan plans to use it on the other primes in the burning hells, forever trapping them away. Remember, the three prime evils haven't been destroyed by losing their stones, they were more or less banished from sanctuary. And Azmodan certainly does not want them taking hell back from him.
Which leaving me on the last point I'm still figuring out. Why would Azmodan confront Leah in that vision? I believe it was either a memory from an resident in the blackstone, or Leah is an agent of some other party. Also consider this, I wouldn't be surprised if a demon double crosses Azmodan, we may find ourselves taking a quest from Belial, or another.
Well, with the two creator entities semi-re conned into the story, with the worldstone being a piece Anu, it would stand to reason that Tiamat, I mean Tathamet, had it's own relics. And if Azmodan has figured out how to use it, then that would definitely set him apart from the other prime evils.
Well, with the two creator entities semi-re conned into the story, with the worldstone being a piece Anu, it would stand to reason that Tiamat, I mean Tathamet, had it's own relics. And if Azmodan has figured out how to use it, then that would definitely set him apart from the other prime evils.
A glowing black dragonscale maybe? also in reply to OP i read someone's thoughts that leah might be in some way connected with diablo, and that in the cinematic its as though Leah is in place of Diablo, given Azmodan's dialogue.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing: League of legends, Legend of Grimlock, Magic:the gathering 2012, Dota 2 beta, Civilisation IV
Re-watch the cinematic again and put Diablo in Leah's place. Azmodan's syntax makes much more sense. "Our brethren fell into your trap" "I defy you" Plus, of course Azmodan would gloat about his victory and plans, Diablo is in his peer group, he's one of the entities he has to account for.
I agree you could throw Diablo in there... but why would he be trapping his own underlings? More likely I would say that an angel was involved in this somewhere...
That is, you could just as easily throw tyrael in there as well... ie he was the one who started all this soulstone stuff. Though whether he was tricked into doing it is a question that should be looked at...
Or you could even throw izaul (the corrupted angel from Act 4 in D2)... although this is more of a stretch in my mind.
As you may remember, it's is extremely difficult for powerful demons to be on sanctuary, they required host bodies, and even then were weakened. That must still be true even with the world stone destoryed, otherwise why would Azmodan care about the blackstone?
Not necessary. The panel explained that the act of the exile, coupled with the loss the Prime Evils faced at the end of the civil war, was what weakened them. The Worldstone dampens their powers to some extent, but not fully. Thus Andariel and Duriel made it into Sanctuary no problem without no hosts.
I'd be ready to theorize that the Black Soulstone was at the center of Diablo's plan all along, and that with it he somehow planned to unite all of the Great Evils with himself, possibly to achieve the power of Tathamet or something along thise lines. It perfectly explains the cinematic with Azmodan, it would place Diablo as the final boss of the game after Azmodan has been beaten, and it also accounts for the popular theory that Diablo is all Three Prime Evils fused together when we see him in the first teaser cinematic.
[spoil]It also explains the string file entry from the Beta that lists him as "Diablo: The Prime Evil"[/spoil]
Problems with it is of course that it would involve him doube-crossing his brothers. Or maybe they're in on it but Azmodan doesn't know that. Because it the cinematic doesn't make much sense if it's just Azmodan talking about Andariel and Duriel when he talks about how they fell "one by one."
However, another possibility is that Azmodan plans to use it on the other primes in the burning hells, forever trapping them away. Remember, the three prime evils haven't been destroyed by losing their stones, they were more or less banished from sanctuary. And Azmodan certainly does not want them taking hell back from him.
If I follow in the same vein as my proposed theory above, he would use the Black Soulstone same as Diablo would: to unite all the powers of the Great Evils into himself, thus making him THE Prime Evil, just as he states in the cinematic.
Which leaving me on the last point I'm still figuring out. Why would Azmodan confront Leah in that vision? I believe it was either a memory from an resident in the blackstone, or Leah is an agent of some other party. Also consider this, I wouldn't be surprised if a demon double crosses Azmodan, we may find ourselves taking a quest from Belial, or another.
If Diablo left some part of him in Leah, or some imprint remains in her, maybe she has a connection to him? It could just be that Leah isn't the intended host of Diablo, that Diablo never planned to have a kid while possessing the Wanderer, but in his weakened state in Aidan he could do nothing about it.
Regardless of whether Diablo is actually possessing Leah at the time or whether some imprint of him remains, it still gives Leah a reason to be in the vision.
Destroying the black soulstone would ideally destroy all evil. Or so it's thought. This was revealed at the lore Q&A.
I think what they meant in the panel was that once Azmodan and Belial were destroyed, all evil would be "destroyed" as well, since no great evils would remain. And the Black Soulstone would be an integral part of that process.
Bear in mind that Leonard clearly added the "or so it's thought". There's more to this story than just killing Azmodan and Belial and then everything is happy and dandy.
I am actually wondering if the black soulstone is the opposite of the worldstone...
Ie the worldstone came from the being of complete good.
Therefore why wouldn't there be an equivalent evil object...
I don't think so. Anu, before splitting into the diamond warrior and the dragon, was everything, and when the Worldstone is called the " Eye of Anu" itse ems to reference that first version of Anu. After all, both Heaven and Hell could use it to their own ends, and both used it just as poorly, so I doubt it's more aligned to Heaven than it is to Hell.
I agree you could throw Diablo in there... but why would he be trapping his own underlings? More likely I would say that an angel was involved in this somewhere...
See above theory, to achieve some greater power akin to that of Tathamet.
That is, you could just as easily throw tyrael in there as well... ie he was the one who started all this soulstone stuff. Though whether he was tricked into doing it is a question that should be looked at...
Maybe. But how do you connect Tyrael to Leah? With Diablo there's a clear trail to follow and some pretty solid indications. If you propose that Tyrael is performing that same function, you'd have to explain where he comes in and how that's more plausible than Diablo being the villain here.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
As you may remember, it's is extremely difficult for powerful demons to be on sanctuary, they required host bodies, and even then were weakened. That must still be true even with the world stone destoryed, otherwise why would Azmodan care about the blackstone?
Not necessary. The panel explained that the act of the exile, coupled with the loss the Prime Evils faced at the end of the civil war, was what weakened them. The Worldstone dampens their powers to some extent, but not fully. Thus Andariel and Duriel made it into Sanctuary no problem without no hosts.
I'd be ready to theorize that the Black Soulstone was at the center of Diablo's plan all along, and that with it he somehow planned to unite all of the Great Evils with himself, possibly to achieve the power of Tathamet or something along thise lines. It perfectly explains the cinematic with Azmodan, it would place Diablo as the final boss of the game after Azmodan has been beaten, and it also accounts for the popular theory that Diablo is all Three Prime Evils fused together when we see him in the first teaser cinematic.
[spoil]It also explains the string file entry from the Beta that lists him as "Diablo: The Prime Evil"[/spoil]
Problems with it is of course that it would involve him doube-crossing his brothers. Or maybe they're in on it but Azmodan doesn't know that. Because it the cinematic doesn't make much sense if it's just Azmodan talking about Andariel and Duriel when he talks about how they fell "one by one."
However, another possibility is that Azmodan plans to use it on the other primes in the burning hells, forever trapping them away. Remember, the three prime evils haven't been destroyed by losing their stones, they were more or less banished from sanctuary. And Azmodan certainly does not want them taking hell back from him.
If I follow in the same vein as my proposed theory above, he would use the Black Soulstone same as Diablo would: to unite all the powers of the Great Evils into himself, thus making him THE Prime Evil, just as he states in the cinematic.
Which leaving me on the last point I'm still figuring out. Why would Azmodan confront Leah in that vision? I believe it was either a memory from an resident in the blackstone, or Leah is an agent of some other party. Also consider this, I wouldn't be surprised if a demon double crosses Azmodan, we may find ourselves taking a quest from Belial, or another.
If Diablo left some part of him in Leah, or some imprint remains in her, maybe she has a connection to him? It could just be that Leah isn't the intended host of Diablo, that Diablo never planned to have a kid while possessing the Wanderer, but in his weakened state in Aidan he could do nothing about it.
Regardless of whether Diablo is actually possessing Leah at the time or whether some imprint of him remains, it still gives Leah a reason to be in the vision.
Destroying the black soulstone would ideally destroy all evil. Or so it's thought. This was revealed at the lore Q&A.
I think what they meant in the panel was that once Azmodan and Belial were destroyed, all evil would be "destroyed" as well, since no great evils would remain. And the Black Soulstone would be an integral part of that process.
Bear in mind that Leonard clearly added the "or so it's thought". There's more to this story than just killing Azmodan and Belial and then everything is happy and dandy.
I am actually wondering if the black soulstone is the opposite of the worldstone...
Ie the worldstone came from the being of complete good.
Therefore why wouldn't there be an equivalent evil object...
I don't think so. Anu, before splitting into the diamond warrior and the dragon, was everything, and when the Worldstone is called the " Eye of Anu" itse ems to reference that first version of Anu. After all, both Heaven and Hell could use it to their own ends, and both used it just as poorly, so I doubt it's more aligned to Heaven than it is to Hell.
I agree you could throw Diablo in there... but why would he be trapping his own underlings? More likely I would say that an angel was involved in this somewhere...
See above theory, to achieve some greater power akin to that of Tathamet.
That is, you could just as easily throw tyrael in there as well... ie he was the one who started all this soulstone stuff. Though whether he was tricked into doing it is a question that should be looked at...
Maybe. But how do you connect Tyrael to Leah? With Diablo there's a clear trail to follow and some pretty solid indications. If you propose that Tyrael is performing that same function, you'd have to explain where he comes in and how that's more plausible than Diablo being the villain here.
Thanks for the concise response(s). It should be obvious I missed the lore panel and have only briefed the highlights. It seems I've lost track of what has and has not been re-conned. Another subtle little detail. Leah clothes, color motif, and shoulder pads are all very diablo.
I am just throwing ideas around as I don't really feel there is enough info to go on at the moment and make solid statements about things.
Would lilith perhaps fit into this? somehow returning from exile... or perhaps a demon/mortal hybrid???
The reason I threw tyrael in there was because he was the one that started the soulstones malarky, perhaps the black soulstone was the reason for the vision and not anything directly to do with leah...
I do like your thinking Phrozen but would then ask if the black soulstone does not come from Tathamet then where did it come from??? Is it a burnt shard of the destroyed worldstone?
If it is then that could explain a whole lot of things... The soulstone plan was to get the 3 primes here, corrupt the worldstone and produce a shard of the worldstone that could be used easily and moved easily...
Would lilith perhaps fit into this? somehow returning from exile... or perhaps a demon/mortal hybrid???
Perhaps. She'll certainly return someday, but as with Inarius I'm unsure whether her plot could be easily combined into the main story of D3 without diluting the Azmodan/Belial/Diablo plot we seem to be getting.
The reason I threw tyrael in there was because he was the one that started the soulstones malarky, perhaps the black soulstone was the reason for the vision and not anything directly to do with leah...
He did in a way, but as far as we know unknowingly of what the consequences would be. Izual was the one who fooled Tyrael into thinking the soulstones perfect prisons. So unless Izual was a double-agent infiltrating Hell on behalf of Tyrael who then spent who knows how long imprisoned in a demonic body before finally being killed by Tyrael's agents, at which point he still faithfully served Tyrael, I don't think Tyrael is the perpetrator here.
I do like your thinking Phrozen but would then ask if the black soulstone does not come from Tathamet then where did it come from??? Is it a burnt shard of the destroyed worldstone?
No. If it were then the Black Soulstone would have been created after Diablo's demise and he would have had no way to hide it anywhere. This negates the entire point made by Azmodan in the cinematic and thus doesn't seem to work with the "Diablo is Leah" theory.
If the theory I proposed here is correct, it would stand to reason that the soulstone was created along with the original soulstones or some time around there, which means it happened prior to the Dark Exile. The purpose of said soulstone would have been for Diablo to assimilate all the powers of the other Great Evils into himself, or at least the other Three Prime Evils. It could have been linked to the soulstones in some way. I'm not sure this theory is correct as it has some holes, but it does fit rather nicely with what information we have.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Maybe the black soulstone was created by the horadrim to be a sort of... singular prison for the evils. Put them all in one place and lock them away forever. But now that we know if you jam a soulstone into you, you gain the powers Diablo and Azmodan want to vacuum up the other evils and use their power for their own.
just a short notice from me: in the blacksoulstone video we see leah browse through the book and the last picture is diablos head, only then leah gets drawn into the vision (or the blacksoulstone gets activated).
just another hint to the leah/diablo merge
Actually the last page she looks at is of the black soulstone.
Maybe the black soulstone was created by the horadrim to be a sort of... singular prison for the evils. Put them all in one place and lock them away forever. But now that we know if you jam a soulstone into you, you gain the powers Diablo and Azmodan want to vacuum up the other evils and use their power for their own.
I seriously doubt the Horadrim had that kind of power, especially since they had to be given the original soulstones to begin with? Where would they have gotten the extra material? You'd likely have to combine that with a "Tyrael is evil" theory for it to make sense, and that would make the character Azmodan adresses Tyrael rather than Diablo. It seems a little problematic.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Maybe the black soulstone was created by the horadrim to be a sort of... singular prison for the evils. Put them all in one place and lock them away forever. But now that we know if you jam a soulstone into you, you gain the powers Diablo and Azmodan want to vacuum up the other evils and use their power for their own.
I seriously doubt the Horadrim had that kind of power, especially since they had to be given the original soulstones to begin with? Where would they have gotten the extra material? You'd likely have to combine that with a "Tyrael is evil" theory for it to make sense, and that would make the character Azmodan adresses Tyrael rather than Diablo. It seems a little problematic.
I dont see how any of that means Tyrael is evil, because he most certainly isn't I don't buy that theory at all at this point.
Wait.. when Diablo was destroyed didn't it say his soul was send back to the "Black Abyss"? Since it's said that if the Black Soulstone is destroyed evil will cease to exist and the Black Abyss is known as the place where evil is born is it possible the "Black Abyss" refers to the space inside the black soulstone? If Diablo's spirit is indeed back inside there it would also lend to the Leah theory.
I dont see how any of that means Tyrael is evil, because he most certainly isn't I don't buy that theory at all at this point.
Because the Horadrim had no knowledge of the soulstones that Tyrael didn't provide. So if they got and used the Black soulstone, Tyrael must have masterminded it.
But let us assume it was the Horadrim for a moment, it still doesn't fit with Azmodan's speech. That would mean he is really talking to Leah, and why would he do that? You defy Leah Azmodan? Great job there buddy.
Wait.. when Diablo was destroyed didn't it say his soul was send back to the "Black Abyss"? Since it's said that if the Black Soulstone is destroyed evil will cease to exist and the Black Abyss is known as the place where evil is born is it possible the "Black Abyss" refers to the space inside the black soulstone? If Diablo's spirit is indeed back inside there it would also lend to the Leah theory.
As I've said before I'm not sure the Black Abyss even applies to the lore, especially not for the Great Evils since we know they came from the remains of Tathamet. Even if he is a figurative tale, it still doesn't give the Black Abyss any more lore credibility.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Destroy all evil? If there is good, there is evil. You cannot destroy evil. That is bull.
This isn't philosophy class. Destroying evil in Diablo means destroying the powers of the Hells in Sanctuary.
What you're referring to the philosophical idea that, in order for something to be considered bad there had to be something considered good to compare it to. Different idea here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Now, we have the three prime evils stones destroyed on the hellforge, Azmodan and Belial are besieging sanctuary. Belial through cult influence, Azmodan through a direct invasion. And the new cinematic tells us he's after the black soulstone. Which is apparently the key to all of this. And that he wasn't fooled.
As you may remember, it's is extremely difficult for powerful demons to be on sanctuary, they required host bodies, and even then were weakened. That must still be true even with the world stone destoryed, otherwise why would Azmodan care about the blackstone? Based on it's size and appearance compared to the other soulstones, it's possible it will allow Azmodan to manifest in full glory on sanctuary. However, another possibility is that Azmodan plans to use it on the other primes in the burning hells, forever trapping them away. Remember, the three prime evils haven't been destroyed by losing their stones, they were more or less banished from sanctuary. And Azmodan certainly does not want them taking hell back from him.
Which leaving me on the last point I'm still figuring out. Why would Azmodan confront Leah in that vision? I believe it was either a memory from an resident in the blackstone, or Leah is an agent of some other party. Also consider this, I wouldn't be surprised if a demon double crosses Azmodan, we may find ourselves taking a quest from Belial, or another.
Ie the worldstone came from the being of complete good.
Therefore why wouldn't there be an equivalent evil object...
A glowing black dragonscale maybe? also in reply to OP i read someone's thoughts that leah might be in some way connected with diablo, and that in the cinematic its as though Leah is in place of Diablo, given Azmodan's dialogue.
That is, you could just as easily throw tyrael in there as well... ie he was the one who started all this soulstone stuff. Though whether he was tricked into doing it is a question that should be looked at...
Or you could even throw izaul (the corrupted angel from Act 4 in D2)... although this is more of a stretch in my mind.
I'd be ready to theorize that the Black Soulstone was at the center of Diablo's plan all along, and that with it he somehow planned to unite all of the Great Evils with himself, possibly to achieve the power of Tathamet or something along thise lines. It perfectly explains the cinematic with Azmodan, it would place Diablo as the final boss of the game after Azmodan has been beaten, and it also accounts for the popular theory that Diablo is all Three Prime Evils fused together when we see him in the first teaser cinematic.
[spoil]It also explains the string file entry from the Beta that lists him as "Diablo: The Prime Evil"[/spoil]
Problems with it is of course that it would involve him doube-crossing his brothers. Or maybe they're in on it but Azmodan doesn't know that. Because it the cinematic doesn't make much sense if it's just Azmodan talking about Andariel and Duriel when he talks about how they fell "one by one."
That he can probably already do, since the Worldstone is gone.
If I follow in the same vein as my proposed theory above, he would use the Black Soulstone same as Diablo would: to unite all the powers of the Great Evils into himself, thus making him THE Prime Evil, just as he states in the cinematic.
If Diablo left some part of him in Leah, or some imprint remains in her, maybe she has a connection to him? It could just be that Leah isn't the intended host of Diablo, that Diablo never planned to have a kid while possessing the Wanderer, but in his weakened state in Aidan he could do nothing about it.
Regardless of whether Diablo is actually possessing Leah at the time or whether some imprint of him remains, it still gives Leah a reason to be in the vision.
I think what they meant in the panel was that once Azmodan and Belial were destroyed, all evil would be "destroyed" as well, since no great evils would remain. And the Black Soulstone would be an integral part of that process.
Bear in mind that Leonard clearly added the "or so it's thought". There's more to this story than just killing Azmodan and Belial and then everything is happy and dandy.
I don't think so. Anu, before splitting into the diamond warrior and the dragon, was everything, and when the Worldstone is called the " Eye of Anu" itse ems to reference that first version of Anu. After all, both Heaven and Hell could use it to their own ends, and both used it just as poorly, so I doubt it's more aligned to Heaven than it is to Hell.
See above theory, to achieve some greater power akin to that of Tathamet.
Maybe. But how do you connect Tyrael to Leah? With Diablo there's a clear trail to follow and some pretty solid indications. If you propose that Tyrael is performing that same function, you'd have to explain where he comes in and how that's more plausible than Diablo being the villain here.
Thanks for the concise response(s). It should be obvious I missed the lore panel and have only briefed the highlights. It seems I've lost track of what has and has not been re-conned. Another subtle little detail. Leah clothes, color motif, and shoulder pads are all very diablo.
Would lilith perhaps fit into this? somehow returning from exile... or perhaps a demon/mortal hybrid???
The reason I threw tyrael in there was because he was the one that started the soulstones malarky, perhaps the black soulstone was the reason for the vision and not anything directly to do with leah...
I do like your thinking Phrozen but would then ask if the black soulstone does not come from Tathamet then where did it come from??? Is it a burnt shard of the destroyed worldstone?
If it is then that could explain a whole lot of things... The soulstone plan was to get the 3 primes here, corrupt the worldstone and produce a shard of the worldstone that could be used easily and moved easily...
Anyway, all just speculation but isn't it fun
He did in a way, but as far as we know unknowingly of what the consequences would be. Izual was the one who fooled Tyrael into thinking the soulstones perfect prisons. So unless Izual was a double-agent infiltrating Hell on behalf of Tyrael who then spent who knows how long imprisoned in a demonic body before finally being killed by Tyrael's agents, at which point he still faithfully served Tyrael, I don't think Tyrael is the perpetrator here.
No. If it were then the Black Soulstone would have been created after Diablo's demise and he would have had no way to hide it anywhere. This negates the entire point made by Azmodan in the cinematic and thus doesn't seem to work with the "Diablo is Leah" theory.
If the theory I proposed here is correct, it would stand to reason that the soulstone was created along with the original soulstones or some time around there, which means it happened prior to the Dark Exile. The purpose of said soulstone would have been for Diablo to assimilate all the powers of the other Great Evils into himself, or at least the other Three Prime Evils. It could have been linked to the soulstones in some way. I'm not sure this theory is correct as it has some holes, but it does fit rather nicely with what information we have.
Actually the last page she looks at is of the black soulstone.
I dont see how any of that means Tyrael is evil, because he most certainly isn't I don't buy that theory at all at this point.
Wait.. when Diablo was destroyed didn't it say his soul was send back to the "Black Abyss"? Since it's said that if the Black Soulstone is destroyed evil will cease to exist and the Black Abyss is known as the place where evil is born is it possible the "Black Abyss" refers to the space inside the black soulstone? If Diablo's spirit is indeed back inside there it would also lend to the Leah theory.
What's left of Tathamet isn't the Black Abyss it's The Burning Hells.
Right now we do not know how it came to be, though the cinematic seems to suggest it's been around for at least a while.
Speculation etc.
Too much retcon and not enough information right now.
But let us assume it was the Horadrim for a moment, it still doesn't fit with Azmodan's speech. That would mean he is really talking to Leah, and why would he do that? You defy Leah Azmodan? Great job there buddy.
As I've said before I'm not sure the Black Abyss even applies to the lore, especially not for the Great Evils since we know they came from the remains of Tathamet. Even if he is a figurative tale, it still doesn't give the Black Abyss any more lore credibility.
It's not in the Beta, and we have no idea how Leah got it at this time.
One was given to the Horadrim for each Prime Evil since they were the only ones on Sanctuary.
This isn't philosophy class. Destroying evil in Diablo means destroying the powers of the Hells in Sanctuary.
What you're referring to the philosophical idea that, in order for something to be considered bad there had to be something considered good to compare it to. Different idea here.