DiabloFans

1.) Remove NV stack requirement for Uber organ drops. It's a stupid restriction. There's nothing LESS FUN than attempting to kill an uber by yourself or with a group and then either A) Kill it just after your stacks run out or B.) Seeing that your timer is low and then having to go back out into the world to find a rare pack to reset your timer.

2.) Increased rewards for MP. If the rewards for attempting higher MP were actually worth the effort, there would be an actual reason to pay a premium for "best in slot" gear compared to just picking something up for pennies that is good enough to farm anything in the game. Currently, the only reason to go beyond this "good enough" gear level is for key/uber farming.

3.) Make MF/GF from paragon levels account bound. Stat based rewards from paragons should remain per character though. Finally, we'd have a reason to play alts again.

Quote from Zero(pS)

I have no idea what's the sweetspot for my farming.

I've tried the game with most of my characters (to see where they were at MP-wise) and on lower MP (1-2) I haven't seen a single legendary, while at MP 4 I've found 3

I know it might be psychological and it's probably better to stick to lower MPs, but I can't help to feel that the little MF I gain has a considerable impact on my chances of finding legendaries/sets.

To ease your mind, I'm at 2 legendaries with approx 2 hours played in the new patch. I've only run 0-2 MP levels so far and my kill speed is very slow (0 run speed, 20-30k dps).

//edit: I do have 300 MF before stacks and MP rewards though

Quote from Twerkulator

So, after playing extensively since release it's very apparent even without looking at numbers/math that the lower MPs are far more efficient. Although, I did see a streamer farming white mobs in MP10. His thought process was that the guaranteed bonus item on 10 and the reasonable HP of the white mobs makes it a viable farming method. Thoughts?

It's an interesting thought process. It might be good if you have max MF. I think you would get less rares but more legendaries/sets.

Quote from cptcapsi

I don't get it....

played 4h after patch so far, tried out Act1and Act3, both MP2, I'm pl10 right now and only got 1-2 pieces of gear with MF.
I got nothing besides yellows, and not even worth anything more than 100k.

I also don't get any oranges/green at 1.0.4...

What am I doing wrong? Doesn't feel like something has doubled.

Well... it sounds like your MF is only about 100? Also, there's more to the equation than time spent. The real factor is monsters killed and I'm guessing your kill speed is a lot less than the people finding 4+ a night. Also... it's random.

From all accounts I've heard people have been getting loads of legendaries. Heck, Renesco from these forums was telling me about his 6-8 legendaries he got last night... that's... a lot.

I played for 30 minutes with 20k dps (still mostly naked) and even I got a legendary. I don't expect prices to drop until at least a few weeks though. It will take awhile before the increase in supply is noticed. Also, new players are entering the market with the new patch hoping to buy gear so that drives up demand. Honestly, prices should be increasing right now.

That's rough. I always thought the requirement for having a 5 stack seemed clunky. I can see the reasoning for getting the keys but it makes no sense for being required for the ubers. Sorry for the bad luck.

Quote from Komie

So then basically, if I can't beat act 2 inferno yet...

then looks like I'm not doing anything with monster power?

Perfect. /sigh.

You might be able to handle act 1 MP 1 if the defensive nerfs didn't hit your class too much. I'd at least give it a shot.

What the patch notes should have said:

"MP 2-3 will be equal to current difficulty of patch 1.0.4 Act 3"

Act 1 MP 1 will be similar to act 3 before the patch since all monsters are increased to lvl 63.

Quote from shaggy

I don't think I'm falsely attributing what others say to you, but if I have then I apologize. Like I said, you are without a doubt one of the more reasonable and more informed posters on these forums - you are not the pitchfork-and-torch lynch mob kinda person that unfortunately makes up far more of this community than it should.

That being said, just play pretend with me here.

What if 1.0.5 and the subsequent changes (cause let's be honest, there will be more) keep you playing until May of 2014 and in the first two years of D3 all you took was a 3-week break? That would be pretty successful even if a 3-week break right now seems like it's the deathknell of the game right? What I'm trying to say is that in a game where we KNOW populations will fluctuate and people will burn out, take breaks, come back for new patches, and all of that jazz that we actively witnessed for the better part of 5 years in D2... for a game that's supposed to last us for years and years, having a retrospective on the 5-month anniversary of the game, while cute, is like predicting that WoW is a horrible game because it had a metric fuckton of issues at the beginning.

As someone aptly pointed out video games are organic now. Blizzard pioneered this back with D2. Just because the first few months had hiccups doesn't really have any kind of outlook for the long term. Most of the issues in D2 were not adequately addressed until LoD and the next patch or two (12-18 month timeframe). The issues in D3 are being addressed far faster and with far more thought and care for the longevity of the game. We have seen so many issues addressed and had far more interaction with the developers in the first 6 months of D3 than we ever had in D2. This IS forward progress and it DOES bode well for the future and the longevity of the game.

As it stands now I do agree with you about some replayability issues, I'm not going to lie and I'm not going to cover it up. I got pretty bored of Act 3. Fortunately I've been deep in MoP for the past few weeks and I've been able to distance myself from D3 just a bit and that actually improves my ability to enjoy the game which suggests that monster power evening out the difficulty/rewards across the acts is a good thing which can keep me from burning out and that the initial tiered design of Inferno was a major mistake.

Anyway I've always respected you as a poster who doesn't fly off the deep end over things, someone who isn't out to kill over the AH, etc. For some reason, lately, your tone has become decidedly negative (hence my jilted lover comment) and I fear that you've caved into the "must hate" mentality. Say it ain't so!

I'm just speaking my personal opinion about the current state of the game. There's always a chance the game will improve with future patches. There is no doubt that they're trying but they can't appease everyone and currently they're trying to focus on the majority and that's not me. I plan on giving 1.0.5 a shot from scratch and I'll see how much fun I have. If it's not fun or I gear up too quickly, I'll quit again and I'm sure I'll be back at the next major patch to try again.

As for the jilted attitude... it probably has to do with my negative opinion of 1.0.5 which is hitting right now It's frustrating for them to add the things that would decrease boredom but fail on basic design decisions.

They've added:
Monster Levels: Great idea but design decisions made by the team make it meaningless for me because I don't find it fun to farm at decreased efficiency.

Ubers: Another great idea but why exactly do I need to farm for this ring? It's no better (or at best, very slightly better) than a well rolled rare but it's a lot easier to get a rare ring. Sure, it has +exp which a lot of people enjoy but I don't personally care about paragon levels... I'm already at max MF without much gear.

Increased drop rates: This actually makes me play the game less. The quicker I get gear, the quicker I quit the game.

My Solutions/Hopes:

Uber Solution: My thought is that ubers should give a best in slot ring that adds a mandatory farm so that farmers have more to do. The uber farm adds a lot of good things. It encourages people to farm all the acts for one. It adds a cool difficult encounter as well. But if the ring isn't special enough, I don't care about getting a good one and therefore I'm back to just farming Act 3. You know what would be awesome? If they made the range on the ring extremely huge. What I mean by this is that you can roll a completely horrible ring but the same could be said about the other end of the spectrum. There's a chance for the ring to be completely overpowered. Then at least, you won't just do a single uber and have a "Good enough" ring. At the same time, there's a reason to keep doing the ubers because you know you have that chance of winning the lottery and getting something that simply cannot be matched by a rare ring.

Monster Level Solution: My thought is that higher level monster powers should be more rewarding than lower levels. An ideal system would be one in which when you get better gear, you can attempt to farm at higher monster levels and gain efficiency. This would add incentive to get better gear to play through the game. As it currently stands with 1.0.5, personally, I only care about getting gear good enough to farm monster power 0-4 and then I'm happy with my gear. I no longer care about upgrading my gear and at that point... I no longer care about playing the game.

Drop Rate Solution: My thought is that drop rates should be decreased and the loot system should be overhauled. Rare items should be relatively rare and the randomness of rare items should be decreased a bit. The solution might be as simple as increasing the % of 6 affix rares and increasing the stat floor (the worst possible affix value rolled) a bit.

I understand not everyone would enjoy my ideas. They are targeted towards more hardcore players but it adds longevity to the game and that's the only thing I currently care about in regards to D3.

It's all speculation at this point. I haven't played 1.0.5 so it's very possible what I'm saying isn't true (even for me). I only base my current posts on what I expect to happen for myself. I'm sure many people are like me and think the same and also, many people don't think like me at all (or more likely, aren't at the same stage in the game as me) and will love 1.0.5 to death. It adds a lot of things for a lot of people!

//edit: Sorry for giant wall of text!

Quote from Sagathiest

Its not as if this is about being strictly optimal or not optimal . In D2 you could progress quite far before the point where trading became necessary to be optimal hit. It was basically a case of decreasing returns to time invested. The more time you invested in farming the more difficult it became to find items which would be useful on your character. In Diablo 3 so far the point where you had to start trading to be optimal hit much earlier. Specifically farming became inefficient relative to trading much faster. Thus the auction house felt 'necessary' because, It was more efficient than trading in D2 and the returns to time invested in farming were too low. So complaints about the AH are more about players wanting to be MORE optimal without the AH not Absolutely optimal without the AH.

Increasing drop-rates will increase the efficiency of Farming and thus make players more optimal without using the auction house. However clearly to be Absolutely optimal use of the AH will still be required.

So while i think your right that if you take demands about wanting to be optimal without the AH to the extreme they seem ridiculous you need to consider the spectrum of optimisation not just the extremes.

Stop complaining about the AH and complain about the real issue you have with the game then.

Your issue with the game is the loot quality. Blizzard wanted the game to last a long time so what they did was add layers upon layers of randomness which makes it so that it's REALLY hard to get a good item in this game.

* First you must get a ilvl63 item to drop (even at the best rates it's only 18%... even less if you aren't in act 3 yet)
* Now you must get it to roll at least as a rare
* Now you must get it to roll that it's a 6 affix rare (10%ish chance I think?)
* Now you must get it roll a combination of affixes that are worthwhile for your character
* Oh yeah... and they must roll the top tier version of that affix

Each layer of randomness builds on each other making it nearly impossible to get a perfectly rolled item. Have you even seen a perfectly rolled item even in the AH? I haven't.

It's a fine line. If you make it too random players aren't happy because they find crap loot. However, if you give the players loot too quickly, players become bored with the game. The next patch is eliminating one layer of randomness so maybe that will be enough for people unhappy about the loot.

The random loot + difficulty of Inferno seems to be the issue a lot of you in this thread have with the game. Instead of bringing up those issues though for some reason you go on a crusade about the AH. Does it really matter though? 1.0.5 is decreasing difficulty and increasing drops. Your issue will be fixed so turn those frowns upside down

The Diablo series has always been about non bound loot so of course the most optimal way will ALWAYS be to trade. The AH doesn't change that... it's how the series is designed. If you don't like that, Diablo isn't for you.

Quote from shaggy

Quote from Ruppgu

I quit the game 3ish weeks ago because I had nothing more to do. I already had "good enough" gear on my WD and I felt like the time required to play a different character just wouldn't be worth it (due to paragon levels). Compare that to D2 where I played for years.

I respect you as an intelligent poster, but I have to call bullshit.

I played D2 for a long time myself. But to sit here and basically infer that you played D2 for ten straight years without ever taking a break or waiting on a patch to fix something that wasn't working for you is just completely driven by sour grapes.

Who cares if you take a month off here, or even a few months? That is not the mark of a bad game because, if it were, it would mean D2 was one of the worst games ever made - something we know is very much untrue.

You sound like a jilted lover right now and not like someone giving objective, actionable, feedback. As to the paragon levels disincentivizing people from playing alts? I agree totally, I've made a few posts on this forum about that subject. It's something that I'm sure Blizzard will fix in the short term because there's no way people are going to be excited about jumping on the pLvl 0 DH when they could just farm more on their pLvl 90 WD. It's an obvious flaw and it will be fixed.

But ... as to having "nothing more to do" that happens. It happened in D1, and D2. It's OK to take a break. It's OK to quit and come back in a few months. That's how almost everyone I knew played D2. Diablo is not an MMO and doesn't have anywhere near the content of an MMO. Expecting to play 20+ hours per week and not eventually get bored is like expecting to put an ice statue into a pool of lava and for it to stay frozen.

Whoa there, you're reading a lot into my post that isn't there.

First off, I didn't play D2 for as long as most. I got bored after about 2 years. My point was that getting bored after a few months vs 2 years is a big difference. My mistake for not providing enough specifics in my original post. It's pretty obvious though that having a system where you stick with 1 character vs a system of having many character resets and static talent trees will have more replayability. I'm not a person that likes to mindlessly farm the same content for no reason. In fact, in D2 when I beat the game on Hell and had reasonable gear, I'd move on to a new character. I wasn't one of the players that tried for max level... that was pretty boring in my opinion.

Also, I've never stated D3 was a bad game in this thread. In fact, the only time I've called D3 a bad game was when the game was balanced so poorly that ranged characters would get 1-2 shot by hard hitting mobs in Act 3-4 Inferno.

I think you are taking everything said in this thread and applying it to me as well. The only thing I've stated is that D2 has more replayability. I think manually resetting my gear + new drop rates in 1.0.5 may peak my interest again though.

Quote from von_Oberstain

Quote from Laokin

Diablo II was broken when it came out too. It also lacked runes and jewels and charms until LoD. And half of the cool uniques were added in LoD too, same with set items. Immortal King's was an LoD set, Ral Rasha's was an LoD set.

Do you guys not remember DII's launch? It was rebalanced every patch, and what did that mean in DII, not only did you have to regear, but you had to re-roll and start over, because your build didn't work anymore and there was no respec.

DII didn't get really good until LoD, and even at that, not until 1.09. That's real talk.

EXACTLY because i remember diablo2 launch, i have to contradict you. d2 had one thing that d3 currently lack desperately - replayability. no penalty for wrong skill choice makes 5 heroes enough forever. so, BASIC d2 could be played for extended amount of time, while d3 in current state cannot - in a while, players will level all heroes to 60, then to *some* paragons, then get bored. and main character can always do item farming for others. there isn't even ladder - ok, a group of fanatics WILL continue to play ad infinitum, but 5,000,000? nope.

I couldn't agree more.

I quit the game 3ish weeks ago because I had nothing more to do. I already had "good enough" gear on my WD and I felt like the time required to play a different character just wouldn't be worth it (due to paragon levels). Compare that to D2 where I played for years.

The fun in Diablo games is gearing up a character, so I may give it another go from scratch on my WD in 1.0.5 simply because I sold all my gear. It will be like playing from scratch again. We'll have to see how it goes... but I think selling my gear may help me get interested into the game again... as funny as that sounds.

Quote from Emberos

I'm not saying I'd buy any jewelry today and it likely makes sense to wait until 1.0.5. That said, expecting a 50%+ drop in prices just because the patch hit is unreasonable. It will take awhile for new max rolls to put downward pressure on the old max rolls -- and the old max rolls will still be quite good. Yes, prices will come down, no it won't be overnight.

I think current rings/ammys will drop 50% after about 2 weeks from the patch.. in fact, it already has dropped by about 50% if you've been paying attention to the market. I can't even get rid of my ammy/ring that was worth 5-8M before the patch notes hit. The supply is increasing 5x and on top of that, the affix range ceiling is changing. If you honestly don't think they will drop by at least 50% then you are crazy.

I can see the argument for other slots since only the supply is increasing (and even in that case, you'll give up armor for some of those upgrades so it's hard to compare) but for jewelry... prices are going to drop.... a lot. Well rolled new affixes though? Those will be VERY expensive to start.

Quote from Loroese

If you compare the total 6 affix rares for each case, you get (3262.5/2587.5) = 1.26 or 26% more 6 affix rares at the higher MF, which is the same increase as the number of legendaries, i.e., 725/575 = 1.26.

Collected data says you are wrong here. http://www.diablofans.com/topic/57939-magic-find-and-its-efficiency-a-statistical-insight/

Quote from Zero(pS)

On a sidenote, I think the bonus MF/GF is being heavily underrated on these speculations though.

Specially considering how MF works. You should have a much higher chance of 6-affix items on MP10 than on MP4. Also, white mobs should still die somewhat fast, and that paired with destructibles (which should have MF/GF affect them once again) should give an insane amount of gold/hour in the higher MPs. Remember destructibles and resplendant chests don't have that extra hp/dmg, but would wield much better rewards (assuming they're once again affected by GF/MF).

If by "much higher" chance you mean between .5 and 1% higher chance to get a 6 affix rare... then yeah, you're right. It's hardly worth considering into calculations. Check the MF thread if you dispute those numbers.