I know I've discussed this before with Kickin It, but I cannot find the conversation and I do not remember what we reached.
Today I finished up all the regular monster pages. Super Uniques are however still do be done. Or rather, they have to be moved from their sandboxes. Intuitively it seems reasonable to have them all on their own pages, but some monsters like Dark Elder, Snapschip Shatter etc. really don't have any information to them besides what can be within the monster template. Some however, like Izual, obivously need their own pages.
Either we give all their individual pages, or we condense the less important monsters on a page, while letting the important ones keep their own. Intuitively I'd say give them their own pages, but what do you all think?
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That'd probably be best if we do group them together. Have five pages, one for minor act I monsters, one for minor act II etc.
I'm thinking this is the list we're dealing with:
Act I
Major
Corpsefire
Bishibosh
Blood Raven
Rakanishu
Treehead Woodfist
Griswold
The Countess
The Smith
Andariel
Minor
Bonebreaker
Coldcrow
Pitspawn Fouldog
Bone Ash
Act II
Major
Radament
Coldworm the Burrower
Fangskin
The Summoner
Duriel
Minor
Bloodwitch the Wild
Beetleburst
Fire Eye
Dark Elder
Ancient Kaa the Soulless
Creeping Feature
Act III
Major
Council Members (one page for all)
Mephisto
Minor
Witch Doctor Endugu
Stormtree
Battlemaid Sarina
Icehawk Riftwing
Sszark the Burning
Act IV Major
Izual
Hephasto
Infector of Souls
Grand Vizier of Chaos
Lord de Seis
Diablo
Minor
None
Act V
Major
Shenk the Overseer
Pindleskin
Nihlathak
Ancients (one page)
Baal Summons (one page)
Baal
Minor
Dac Farren
Eldritch the Rectifier
Thresh Socket
Frozenstein
Eyeback the Unleashed
Sharptooth Slayer
Bonesaw Breaker
Snapchip Shatter
Obviously this isn't a final list, but I've basically included any mosnter which can have any text related to it in Major. Based on this, I'm not so sure it's worth it to do composite pages.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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I was planning to just have the whole thing on the Super Unique Monsters (Diablo II) page. Any SU's that are required to complete a quest (act bosses, Corpsefire, Blood Raven, Countess, Radament, Summoner, High Council, Izual, Diablo Seal Bosses, Shenk, Nihlathak, Ancients, and Baal Gauntlent, if I haven't missed any) would get their own page. And some of those probably don't even need their own page (Corpsefire, Blood Raven, Radament; more are debatable). Conveniently, this includes all the monsters that drop uber keys, etc.
Initially I thought it might be nice to have each super unique get their own page, but after reading this thread I'm beginning to see a more condensed approach. Probably what makes the most sense is dividing up the SU's into major and minor ones as Phrozen put it - major being if:
- bosses (Diablo, Baal)
- they are quest related (Blood Raven, High Council)
- encountered on the path of a quest (Bloodwitch the Wild, Coldworm the Burrower)
some players will never see certain SU's in their game progression and can be placed in a table as such, but ones they will see repeatedly I think deserve their own page even if they are cosmetic. For example meeting Coldworm the Burrower would compel me to check if there was anything else important about this SU since it's close to a quest milestone.
We should definitely break up the table into acts (a la Arreat Summit) otherwise we're looking at a gigantic table for one page.
SU's like Creeping Feature have some fun trivia that might get lost. Maybe place a trivia section at the end of each acts' tables?
Edit: or if on a single page, collapsing sections.
And some of those probably don't even need their own page (Corpsefire, Blood Raven, Radament; more are debatable). Conveniently, this includes all the monsters that drop uber keys, etc.
I think we ought to give more monsters their own pages.
For example, Blood Raven needs her own page because she has some lore attached to her, and her abilities are unique for her.
- encountered on the path of a quest (Bloodwitch the Wild, Coldworm the Burrower)
That will leave very few monsters though. Barely anything is outside of a quest path.
I'm having a thought here. Why not give every super unique their own page, and simply expand on the info provided? For example, we could include the stats of their minions there (with adjusted minion stats), and we could include what items they can drop as best. What rune and unique level they can drop at most for every difficulty. Perhaps some hints for the trickier super uniques as well. We could also include a color history and what they looked like at release, since most superuniques had their colors changed at one point in time (1.10 I think). We don't have to have all, but there's certainly information we could put on a page which would warrant separate pages for all.
Because really, we all agree that some of these monsters have to have their own pages. And getting this extra info is relatively easy and prodives a reason for all monsters to have their own page.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Well if we want to add a bunch of extra info that isn't in the monster template, we'll definitely want to give everyone their own page. Otherwise it'll get too cluttery. We should probably keep the entire list as it exists on my Sandbox on the SU page, but we can change the names to link to the individual pages as well.
2. HP is probably incorrectly calculated for a lot of the superuniques you have in your sandbox Kickin. The HP listed on Arreat Summit is based on the monster levels they have in monstats.txt
However, since level is determined by where monsters spawn in NM and H, and since those levels can be significantly higher (67 vs 79 in the case of corpsefire, plus his extra 3 unique levels) the values will have to be checked.
3. I don't really know how minions are spawned. There is a column for it in superuniques.txt, but it only corresponds to nightmare and hell. I think it might just be +1 minion in NM and +2 in Hell, but I've only tested it on Treehead Woodfist as of yet.
We should probably keep the entire list as it exists on my Sandbox on the SU page, but we can change the names to link to the individual pages as well.
I think we should just make it into a list with image and name, as is done on Monsters (Diablo II), perhaps move the super uniques from there to the Super Unique page. Otherwise we have to keep the information updated on two places, and it seems detriemental to the individual pages to list the stats in two places.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
2. HP is probably incorrectly calculated for a lot of the superuniques you have in your sandbox Kickin. The HP listed on Arreat Summit is based on the monster levels they have in monstats.txt
However, since level is determined by where monsters spawn in NM and H, and since those levels can be significantly higher (67 vs 79 in the case of corpsefire, plus his extra 3 unique levels) the values will have to be checked.
Well, AS only lists the stats for a few choice monsters (Griswold, Smith, Ancients, etc.). Most of the info I've gotten from...other sources.
3. I don't really know how minions are spawned. There is a column for it in superuniques.txt, but it only corresponds to nightmare and hell. I think it might just be +1 minion in NM and +2 in Hell, but I've only tested it on Treehead Woodfist as of yet.
My...other source :ninja:...has the minion info listed if I'm not mistaken.
I think we should just make it into a list with image and name, as is done on Monsters (Diablo II), perhaps move the super uniques from there to the Super Unique page. Otherwise we have to keep the information updated on two places, and it seems detriemental to the individual pages to list the stats in two places.
Well...past the initial implementation, I don't anticipate that we're going to have to keep much (any) information "updated," especially considering how late in the game it is with D3 coming soon(?).
I would leave out the minion row since the page is focused on the Super Unique it's a little confusing to see more than one monster. It should be sufficient to just mention the number per difficulty.
I think we should just make it into a list with image and name, as is done on Monsters (Diablo II), perhaps move the super uniques from there to the Super Unique page
Also similar to how AS has them. I'm a fan of that simple setup.
Well...past the initial implementation, I don't anticipate that we're going to have to keep much (any) information "updated," especially considering how late in the game it is with D3 coming soon(?).
While that's probably true, I still want to avoid having the exact information dispalyed on two places.
I would leave out the minion row since the page is focused on the Super Unique it's a little confusing to see more than one monster. It should be sufficient to just mention the number per difficulty.
Where else would minions be displayed? The template wasn't designed for it, but I could see if I can't make some changes to it to accomodate for displaying minions as well.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Ok screw the minions. Only thing that differs from the base monster is hp, and it's not that big of a deal. They're gonna have slightly more hp than the base monster, and slightly less than the Super Unique.
EDIT: That means we can now implement these on the individual pages.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
You could mention minions on the unique and super unique hub pages. I don't think there's any proper information about minions yet, like lightning enchanted minions getting a +lit damage boost in NM/Hell.
We should be all caught up on Super Unique images now. I also threw in the ones that have been removed in previous patches in case we want to put those into an easter egg or trivia section.
We should be all caught up on Super Unique images now. I also threw in the ones that have been removed in previous patches in case we want to put those into an easter egg or trivia section.
Good job, Apob, =).
As far as what to do... I'm kinda with PD on this one, personally I think each Super Unique should have it's own page. Thinking ahead, having the Monster Template take into account each monster having their own page (instead of listing each monster on one "hub" page and leaving out certain information) will better set us up for D3. Just my two cents.
Aside from BlizzCon, D3 information will be slim, and I still say we won't see the Beta until 2012, which gives us plenty of time to finish up the remaining D2 info, any D1 info, clean things up a bit, and get setup for D3.
And looking at that list, do we want to label the Cow King as "Quest-related"? It's for the most part, a hidden quest.
EDIT: Also, can we get a transparent bg on the Lightning Spire and Reziarfg? As far as Reziarfg goes, is it safe to assume that "Stygian Beast" is a Stygian Fury? ... In which case we can setup a redirect from the Beast page to the Fury page.
EDIT: Also, can we get a transparent bg on the Lightning Spire and Reziarfg? As far as Reziarfg goes, is it safe to assume that "Stygian Beast" is a Stygian Fury? ... In which case we can setup a redirect from the Beast page to the Fury page.
The image of Reziarfg was probably pulled off the Arreat Summit - if it's in the data files it's well hidden. I highly doubt they bothered to model it since it was a joke after all. So it's a hack job, but I removed the black.
The "Stygian Beast" was mentioned in the lore about Reziarfg; I think this is different than "Stygian Fury". I don't know if that is enough to merit it's own page, but all we know about the "Stygian Beast" is what's mentioned in that joke.
Today I finished up all the regular monster pages. Super Uniques are however still do be done. Or rather, they have to be moved from their sandboxes. Intuitively it seems reasonable to have them all on their own pages, but some monsters like Dark Elder, Snapschip Shatter etc. really don't have any information to them besides what can be within the monster template. Some however, like Izual, obivously need their own pages.
Either we give all their individual pages, or we condense the less important monsters on a page, while letting the important ones keep their own. Intuitively I'd say give them their own pages, but what do you all think?
I'm thinking this is the list we're dealing with:
Act I
Major
Corpsefire
Bishibosh
Blood Raven
Rakanishu
Treehead Woodfist
Griswold
The Countess
The Smith
Andariel
Minor
Bonebreaker
Coldcrow
Pitspawn Fouldog
Bone Ash
Act II
Major
Radament
Coldworm the Burrower
Fangskin
The Summoner
Duriel
Minor
Bloodwitch the Wild
Beetleburst
Fire Eye
Dark Elder
Ancient Kaa the Soulless
Creeping Feature
Act III
Major
Council Members (one page for all)
Mephisto
Minor
Witch Doctor Endugu
Stormtree
Battlemaid Sarina
Icehawk Riftwing
Sszark the Burning
Act IV
Major
Izual
Hephasto
Infector of Souls
Grand Vizier of Chaos
Lord de Seis
Diablo
Minor
None
Act V
Major
Shenk the Overseer
Pindleskin
Nihlathak
Ancients (one page)
Baal Summons (one page)
Baal
Minor
Dac Farren
Eldritch the Rectifier
Thresh Socket
Frozenstein
Eyeback the Unleashed
Sharptooth Slayer
Bonesaw Breaker
Snapchip Shatter
Obviously this isn't a final list, but I've basically included any mosnter which can have any text related to it in Major. Based on this, I'm not so sure it's worth it to do composite pages.
- bosses (Diablo, Baal)
- they are quest related (Blood Raven, High Council)
- encountered on the path of a quest (Bloodwitch the Wild, Coldworm the Burrower)
some players will never see certain SU's in their game progression and can be placed in a table as such, but ones they will see repeatedly I think deserve their own page even if they are cosmetic. For example meeting Coldworm the Burrower would compel me to check if there was anything else important about this SU since it's close to a quest milestone.
We should definitely break up the table into acts (a la Arreat Summit) otherwise we're looking at a gigantic table for one page.
SU's like Creeping Feature have some fun trivia that might get lost. Maybe place a trivia section at the end of each acts' tables?
Edit: or if on a single page, collapsing sections.
For example, Blood Raven needs her own page because she has some lore attached to her, and her abilities are unique for her.
That will leave very few monsters though. Barely anything is outside of a quest path.
I'm having a thought here. Why not give every super unique their own page, and simply expand on the info provided? For example, we could include the stats of their minions there (with adjusted minion stats), and we could include what items they can drop as best. What rune and unique level they can drop at most for every difficulty. Perhaps some hints for the trickier super uniques as well. We could also include a color history and what they looked like at release, since most superuniques had their colors changed at one point in time (1.10 I think). We don't have to have all, but there's certainly information we could put on a page which would warrant separate pages for all.
Because really, we all agree that some of these monsters have to have their own pages. And getting this extra info is relatively easy and prodives a reason for all monsters to have their own page.
1. Threw up a test in my sandbox of what it could look like, keeping it much in line with how current monster pages are designed: http://www.diablowiki.com/index.php?title=User:PhrozenDragon/Sandbox2/Test&oldid=32949
2. HP is probably incorrectly calculated for a lot of the superuniques you have in your sandbox Kickin. The HP listed on Arreat Summit is based on the monster levels they have in monstats.txt
However, since level is determined by where monsters spawn in NM and H, and since those levels can be significantly higher (67 vs 79 in the case of corpsefire, plus his extra 3 unique levels) the values will have to be checked.
3. I don't really know how minions are spawned. There is a column for it in superuniques.txt, but it only corresponds to nightmare and hell. I think it might just be +1 minion in NM and +2 in Hell, but I've only tested it on Treehead Woodfist as of yet.
I think we should just make it into a list with image and name, as is done on Monsters (Diablo II), perhaps move the super uniques from there to the Super Unique page. Otherwise we have to keep the information updated on two places, and it seems detriemental to the individual pages to list the stats in two places.
Well, AS only lists the stats for a few choice monsters (Griswold, Smith, Ancients, etc.). Most of the info I've gotten from...other sources.
My...other source :ninja:...has the minion info listed if I'm not mistaken.
Well...past the initial implementation, I don't anticipate that we're going to have to keep much (any) information "updated," especially considering how late in the game it is with D3 coming soon(?).
Also similar to how AS has them. I'm a fan of that simple setup.
While that's probably true, I still want to avoid having the exact information dispalyed on two places.
Where else would minions be displayed? The template wasn't designed for it, but I could see if I can't make some changes to it to accomodate for displaying minions as well.
I think a list will work better in this situation.
I think I did Corpsefire on my own.
EDIT: That means we can now implement these on the individual pages.
Join the chat!
As far as what to do... I'm kinda with PD on this one, personally I think each Super Unique should have it's own page. Thinking ahead, having the Monster Template take into account each monster having their own page (instead of listing each monster on one "hub" page and leaving out certain information) will better set us up for D3. Just my two cents.
Aside from BlizzCon, D3 information will be slim, and I still say we won't see the Beta until 2012, which gives us plenty of time to finish up the remaining D2 info, any D1 info, clean things up a bit, and get setup for D3.
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
we still need "Bonesaw_Breaker_(Diablo_II).gif"
at the moment, http://www.diablowiki.com/Monsters_(Diablo_II)#List_of_Super_Uniques is what we have.
EDIT: Also, can we get a transparent bg on the Lightning Spire and Reziarfg? As far as Reziarfg goes, is it safe to assume that "Stygian Beast" is a Stygian Fury? ... In which case we can setup a redirect from the Beast page to the Fury page.
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
The image of Reziarfg was probably pulled off the Arreat Summit - if it's in the data files it's well hidden. I highly doubt they bothered to model it since it was a joke after all. So it's a hack job, but I removed the black.
The "Stygian Beast" was mentioned in the lore about Reziarfg; I think this is different than "Stygian Fury". I don't know if that is enough to merit it's own page, but all we know about the "Stygian Beast" is what's mentioned in that joke.
and hence it doesnt exist since it doesnt spawn.