Has some1 said this is something new? Bashiok just responded to a user in the forums. No1 has said this is something new, the user just wanted to bring his/her opinion up and bashiok crashed it.
True but this is the news forum, i usually come to see whats new i don't know about anyone else.
If what bashiok says is true, about customization is all in the gear, then we can't really judge an auto-stat system. Obviously the stats aren't as important in D3. So there's nothing really to bitch about.
and i wouldn't worry about minimal gear customization like in D2. I'm sure there's a meaning to blizz's madness they probly have tons of gear options.
ALSO with an auto-stat system, it will give players a chance to show off skill with unique builds.
Because looking back at D2, there was always 2 or 3 popular builds per class where everyone would have the same stats and same gear. EX: Hammerdins- Shako-2soj-hoto...etc...
with the auto-stats players are sort of forced to be unique of everyone else. With tons more items and less focus on the stats, there will probly be a lot more than just 2 or 3 good builds per class.
Yep, autostats support the point of being able to respec. Whats the point of a throwbarb respeccing to melee if he can't use the end-all axe he just found because of stats?
The WoW respec system's flaw was that people generally did not accept a class being played if it wasn't their best skilltree. Diablo on the other hand is all about laying the smackdown on things, so theres only respeccing from dealing damage to dealing damage. Autostats will let you use items that make sense to a class within reason, while respeing will let you change from doing type A damage to type B damage. A sorceress won't be able to use the highest triers of armor anymore unless Blizzard intends to have it so, but on the counter side, they can use items of magical value which other classes may not. It will distinguish character classes to play more like their class, while being versatile enough to still change the way they dish out pain.
Awesome job of summing this problem up and how good of an idea it actually is; maybe if people keep quoting you someone here will read it and the thread will die...a quick, terrible death
With auto-stats you lose a small amount of customization, true, but gain a lot of freedoms in adding more - and more interesting - customization through other means.
AGAIN, Bashiok tells that we will have more customization in other areas but don't explain what are those areas.
And its not just about loosing customization its about tradition (D1 and D2 had manual stats) and with manual stats intelligent players can make better builds (specially for pvp).
If I've played my Wizard as a long-range glass cannon the entire game, and then get an amazing end-all item drop that makes me want to switch it up and go as more vitality-heavy battle style Wizard, I'd probably have to reroll.
Thats is the only favorable point in auto stats IMO but makes me ask a question: If D3' will have skill respec why don't they add stats respec too? I know that many people don't like respec system (i don't) but I prefer that than loosing stat points customization.
First about the oblivionesque leveling idea, i can confidently say "worst idea evah" without feeling the need to explain myself.
But anyways.
Pretty much explained it.
And finally.
This statement is simply wrong, completely. Having customizable stats in no way impeded on "customization through other means", in fact it made it (and currently could make it) more interesting and meaningful (customization through other means is bland if you only have to take "the other means" into consideration).
It's not in the least bit wrong in any way. Let me explain. He is pretty much saying that the job that stat points played has been taken over by another facet of the game. The problem in having both this and customizable stats is that the latter would water down the impact it makes on gameplay. Auto stats define the character classes, such definition was lacking in D2 because everyone poured their stats pretty much the same. This definition will let the classes play to their strengths in multiplayer.
You are just referencing poor stat balances in the previous game which proves nothing and in fact isn't even relevant to the discussion.
What better way to balance stats than to make them automatic:P The problem is that you have nothing to complain about yet since you haven't seen the system they will replace it with.
Poor stat balances aren't relevant to the subject? O.O
Doppel, balance is everything in a game like Diablo.
The auto-stat allocation makes things different than before, but much better in many ways. There are fewer than you think that actually "enjoyed" calculating how much strength, dexterity and energy (none of the last, but whatever) was needed for the basic character needs and then dumping the rest to stamina.
I always was most effective and had more fun with characters that werent like the others (i remember my suicide sorc with nova and no block) which ended up level 96 and never dead (was hardcore till i let her expire).
The best thing i've heared so far as customization is the spell/ability customization through the revamped rune system. It changes not just the skill use but also your overall gameplay. Tactics, everything. Eventually there's going to be some items that will be the best for each class/spec but even so the use of runes will make characters much different, even with the same gear and spec.
has anyone considered a light/dark system that was rumored to be in the game a few years ago? perhaps they're going to actually implement it into the game since the stats are auto. maybe they'll have something like choosing to be more "dark" or more "light" based on the gamer's decision, adding more customization. that would be interesting!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
----------------------- "What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?" -Beowulf
in no way should diablo 3 have anything to do with the nightmare of a horrid game they call "oblivion" that game was not good in any awy shape or form... was a rush job to make money cuz it had the name "morrowind" and they hyped it up... heres oblivion in a nutshell: ok so yea we want you to close all these portals to this other dimension so we dont all die... umm you have to do this alone... with no help and were all gonna act like nothing is wrong.... yea fuck that game...
yea it is really dumbing it down for the wow fanboys... horray
Dang dude oblivion is one of the best rpg's of all time!!!
And btw diablo your on your own with like a mercenary here and the b.net peeps there....
And in oblivion you get someone to help you often....So dude don't bash a game you know nothing about it is one amazing game......:offtopic:
P.S. Forgot what game this was but there is a button where you push recommended or you can manually do it.
You are telling things as they were the only right opinion.
With the freedom to allocate stats points as u wish in d2 it came to this:
Enough STR to equip items
Enough DEX to get 75% block
0 Energy (unless u are ES sorc, then u put points to energy instead of VIT)
Everything else to VIT
So where's to point? Every build was the same. That's why we need something new, rebellous, revolutionary and Great!
Ive said this many times....nobody listens :P.....you forgot ONE BUILD THO.....glass cannon zonz use a fair bit of stats for dex
Blizzard can probably just build onto the auto-stats allocation, something like 'paths' for you to choose from as you level up, for example, the choices of "Wisdom" "Physical" and "Dexterity". Depending on what the player chooses, stats point will be allocated accordingly. There you will have the automatic feature, while players will continue to have the option to better-effectively play extraordinary characters like... caster barbarian, or hack'n'slash wizard, if there are skills in D3 to accommodate these desires (with runes?)
I think it might be too soon to say that being able to allocate stats points manually is the right thing to do.Personnaly I like being able to place stats points where I want but since we don't really know all the "others means" that bashiok talk about we can't really says if its good or not. You never know, being able to allocate stats points manually could make the games unbalanced.
We don't know everything about the games, maybe for example there is a magic effect on gears that give you 10% reduced damage for any kind of attack for every 100 base strength you have. with this idea, if 3 parts of gears could have that, if you could put all the strength you want you could become invincible.
Keep in mind that this is only an example of what could be in the games.
We might not know what best for the stats until we actually have the game.
D3 will force you to customize your character by making you select gear that grants the stats you need, in the amounts you need. D2 gave you all the stat points for free, which made a select handful of gear the best possible option, and the rest completely useless. On top of that, they had to make stats not so powerful to not cause disbalance when abused (when you misplace your stats in such ways to ruin the basic traits of your class such as strength and endurance). And on top of that, they had to limit you by putting stat requirements on gear. D3 has solved all those problems with the new stat system:
- You will be able to wear any kind of gear you want because stats will not be requisites for wearing gear, it will be the other way around
- You will be forced to combine gear to receive stats instead of going for universal values (+1 to skills, resistances, etc)
- You will have a freedom of changing your playstyle throughout the game and constantly perfect your character to your taste, instead of having to replay the whole game like a retard every time you want to try something new
Bottom line: more depth in customization, more customization overall, more freedom.
I'll use an example from WoW because guessing how things are going to be in D3 is just speculation. As a caster DPS class, I benefit from modifiers such as the crit rating, the hit rating, the haste rating and bonus spellpower (aside from stats such as stamina, inellect and spirit). Blizzard will put spellpower and one or two of the other three modifiers on most endgame items, but never all three. The stats your recieve are also balanced to not overpower potential classes which depend on different things. That means that there are no 'best' items for my class or even my build. If I decide to wear an item that grants only hit rating and spellpower, I will be sacrificing my crit rating and haste rating, but that is a decision I have to make, because unless I have a certain amount of hit rating (which as a weathered player I will calculate beforehand), my build is going to fail big time. That is why I need to decide on which item slots I am willing to go for hit rating gear and and which I will go for crit rating and haste rating, or maybe my talents are built in such way that I do not even have to rely on crit that much which opens up more possibilities. Supporting your build with gear is a very delicate procedure which will easily make or brake your character, or even make your character extraordinary if you have an exquisite grasp of the game mechanics and how your build works. Compared to a system like THAT, D2 'customization' can be considered laughable at best. Even if you are plain enough to break your character by misplacing stats that are given to you as a gift, your character will still operate on some level, so you will still be able to play the game no matter how little effort you put into it, and of course all you need to do is find out which items have the biggest numbers because those are universally the 'best' items.
Bottom line: in D2 all you need to do is read a good tutorial which explains what is the best build for your class. In WoW, and hopefully D3, you will not be able to ever do such a thing, because nothing is given to you for free, and you will have to work your best with whatever you currently have and whichever skills you currently have. And THAT takes skill. Reading guides doesn't take skill.
they will be balanced by the time the game goes to its beta phase.
Let's take WoW as a reference of the auto-stat feature:
every class in WoW after a certain level has completely different base strength/stamina etc which suits the role best. Now if you want to play a warrior, say as a tank you use specific gear to gain more stamina and armor. Now if you prefer to play as a damage dealer you focus on strength, attack power and criticals. Its possible to do both without having to make one character for each spec.
Now in Diablo 3 as mentioned before its going to be even easier to do so, since you're speccing from dealing damage to dealing damage so the roles arent really different. Except that even in Diablo 3 each class will have its own play style. Its going to need alot of vitality gear to make a wizard move through enemies in melee range like a barbarian and that would also make sense. Each class should offer a different gaming experience and every class should focus on different sets of items too. If auto-stats is what it takes, so be it.
Customization through items takes more effort and more careful planning tgo accomplish than the simple spec googling we used to have in Diablo 2.
Wrong, lets put it like this. If your argument revolves around how poorly balanced stats were, then by all means making them automatic and just as unbalanced (there isn't any reason pointing towards them being balanced now, is there?) is the absolutely worst idea imaginable. Thus, either you drop your non-argument about how unbalanced stats were, or you discuss the issue at hand. (namely the pros and cons of auto-stats as a system)
I have no proof that the game will be balanced just like you have no proof that the stat system will be inferior, there are many unseen factors that will play a part in character development, you cant just label this system bad until you have all the facts, which at this point no one but the devs have. The point is that the devs put way more thought into this than you ever could and therefore are more capable of making an informed descision than you. Plus they have betas to help balance everything out as fingolfin plainly stated. Its more likely that I'm right and you are wrong.
lol.....they define the character along with there skill sets....something stats didnt do in D2 hardly beyond having different life per vita and mana per energy
True but this is the news forum, i usually come to see whats new i don't know about anyone else.
and i wouldn't worry about minimal gear customization like in D2. I'm sure there's a meaning to blizz's madness they probly have tons of gear options.
ALSO with an auto-stat system, it will give players a chance to show off skill with unique builds.
Because looking back at D2, there was always 2 or 3 popular builds per class where everyone would have the same stats and same gear. EX: Hammerdins- Shako-2soj-hoto...etc...
with the auto-stats players are sort of forced to be unique of everyone else. With tons more items and less focus on the stats, there will probly be a lot more than just 2 or 3 good builds per class.
My 2cents
Awesome job of summing this problem up and how good of an idea it actually is; maybe if people keep quoting you someone here will read it and the thread will die...a quick, terrible death
And its not just about loosing customization its about tradition (D1 and D2 had manual stats) and with manual stats intelligent players can make better builds (specially for pvp).
Thats is the only favorable point in auto stats IMO but makes me ask a question: If D3' will have skill respec why don't they add stats respec too? I know that many people don't like respec system (i don't) but I prefer that than loosing stat points customization.
The Wizard is going to have one of the baddest-ass weapons in the game.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Poor stat balances aren't relevant to the subject? O.O
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
The auto-stat allocation makes things different than before, but much better in many ways. There are fewer than you think that actually "enjoyed" calculating how much strength, dexterity and energy (none of the last, but whatever) was needed for the basic character needs and then dumping the rest to stamina.
I always was most effective and had more fun with characters that werent like the others (i remember my suicide sorc with nova and no block) which ended up level 96 and never dead (was hardcore till i let her expire).
The best thing i've heared so far as customization is the spell/ability customization through the revamped rune system. It changes not just the skill use but also your overall gameplay. Tactics, everything. Eventually there's going to be some items that will be the best for each class/spec but even so the use of runes will make characters much different, even with the same gear and spec.
"What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?"
-Beowulf
Dang dude oblivion is one of the best rpg's of all time!!!
And btw diablo your on your own with like a mercenary here and the b.net peeps there....
And in oblivion you get someone to help you often....So dude don't bash a game you know nothing about it is one amazing game......:offtopic:
P.S. Forgot what game this was but there is a button where you push recommended or you can manually do it.
Has anyone ever seen the cow kings dance well i have its right here! http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cd2wyKQm13I
Oh and do you wanna see the new cows in d3 here they are
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TpMAqQ_pc0I
/l、
(゚、 。 7
l、 ~ヽ ------CAT IM A KITTY CAT AND I DANCE DANCE DANCE
..じしf_, )ノ AND I DANCE DANCE DANCE!!!
Come stay awhile and..its time for shedding our enemies blood not idle talk aww no one ever listens... lol
Ive said this many times....nobody listens :P.....you forgot ONE BUILD THO.....glass cannon zonz use a fair bit of stats for dex
We don't know everything about the games, maybe for example there is a magic effect on gears that give you 10% reduced damage for any kind of attack for every 100 base strength you have. with this idea, if 3 parts of gears could have that, if you could put all the strength you want you could become invincible.
Keep in mind that this is only an example of what could be in the games.
We might not know what best for the stats until we actually have the game.
- You will be able to wear any kind of gear you want because stats will not be requisites for wearing gear, it will be the other way around
- You will be forced to combine gear to receive stats instead of going for universal values (+1 to skills, resistances, etc)
- You will have a freedom of changing your playstyle throughout the game and constantly perfect your character to your taste, instead of having to replay the whole game like a retard every time you want to try something new
Bottom line: more depth in customization, more customization overall, more freedom.
I'll use an example from WoW because guessing how things are going to be in D3 is just speculation. As a caster DPS class, I benefit from modifiers such as the crit rating, the hit rating, the haste rating and bonus spellpower (aside from stats such as stamina, inellect and spirit). Blizzard will put spellpower and one or two of the other three modifiers on most endgame items, but never all three. The stats your recieve are also balanced to not overpower potential classes which depend on different things. That means that there are no 'best' items for my class or even my build. If I decide to wear an item that grants only hit rating and spellpower, I will be sacrificing my crit rating and haste rating, but that is a decision I have to make, because unless I have a certain amount of hit rating (which as a weathered player I will calculate beforehand), my build is going to fail big time. That is why I need to decide on which item slots I am willing to go for hit rating gear and and which I will go for crit rating and haste rating, or maybe my talents are built in such way that I do not even have to rely on crit that much which opens up more possibilities. Supporting your build with gear is a very delicate procedure which will easily make or brake your character, or even make your character extraordinary if you have an exquisite grasp of the game mechanics and how your build works. Compared to a system like THAT, D2 'customization' can be considered laughable at best. Even if you are plain enough to break your character by misplacing stats that are given to you as a gift, your character will still operate on some level, so you will still be able to play the game no matter how little effort you put into it, and of course all you need to do is find out which items have the biggest numbers because those are universally the 'best' items.
Bottom line: in D2 all you need to do is read a good tutorial which explains what is the best build for your class. In WoW, and hopefully D3, you will not be able to ever do such a thing, because nothing is given to you for free, and you will have to work your best with whatever you currently have and whichever skills you currently have. And THAT takes skill. Reading guides doesn't take skill.
Let's take WoW as a reference of the auto-stat feature:
every class in WoW after a certain level has completely different base strength/stamina etc which suits the role best. Now if you want to play a warrior, say as a tank you use specific gear to gain more stamina and armor. Now if you prefer to play as a damage dealer you focus on strength, attack power and criticals. Its possible to do both without having to make one character for each spec.
Now in Diablo 3 as mentioned before its going to be even easier to do so, since you're speccing from dealing damage to dealing damage so the roles arent really different. Except that even in Diablo 3 each class will have its own play style. Its going to need alot of vitality gear to make a wizard move through enemies in melee range like a barbarian and that would also make sense. Each class should offer a different gaming experience and every class should focus on different sets of items too. If auto-stats is what it takes, so be it.
Customization through items takes more effort and more careful planning tgo accomplish than the simple spec googling we used to have in Diablo 2.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
It's Blizzard we are talking about. When have they ever failed to please their fans?
lol.....they define the character along with there skill sets....something stats didnt do in D2 hardly beyond having different life per vita and mana per energy