The thing is no matter what we few do it will be like tossing a pebble in the ocean expecting the waves to stop...
But i agree with you in earnest.
Sometimes i look at some item similar to mine and see it listed for 20-40 mil or something... then I evaluate how much I would really like to buy something like it for and set it for much less, for the said example something like 4-8 mil.
It sells very quickly...
I have no way of knowing the guy that listed for 20 sold or not (well maybe I do but it is not like ill set an alarm clock just to check that stuff), but i stand pretty satisfied I got my gold and someone got an item that he will brag for having bought for cheap on the AH.
The sad side of my story is that I myself just dont find deals like this for myself...SO if i need to upgrade I pretty much just wait til my bank allows me to dump 40-50 mil for a single piece...
There is nothing wrong with dropping 10m on a weapon. 10-15m for something like that is reasonable. What I am saying is that people listing things for 100m is ruining the AH economy. I added more to my post based on some replies that explains this a little better. Sorry if there was some confusion.
No, sorry, it doesn't ruin the economy - it is the economy. What it does ruin is your fantasy ideal of getting items, of which the rarity is akin to winning the lottery, for a pittance of their real potential value, simply because you think being spoon-fed everything is fun. Sorry, that isn't how it works here, or anywhere else. You play, you earn gold, you buy stuff. Rinse and repeat, climbing the gear ladder. This game isn't supposed to be "lol give me the best gear for 27 gold so I can let my cat play during the day it's so easy." You're supposed to grind for months, even years, to obtain the best. Stop trying to cut to the front of the line on someone else's dime.
Yeah, look where capitalism has gotten our world. Most countries are in debt, and damn near everyone is a selfish git. I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.
Absolutely EVERYTHING, no hyperbole there. Every. Last. Item. Overpriced. I mean, no one can afford anything. That weapon I sold last week for 50 million? Blizzard bought it to give the idea that items were actually moving. It's really a huge scheme to keep us playing longer, really. Make stuff so expensive we have no choice but to play forever!
No, see, most people are in debt ironically because of attitudes like yours. Everything is too expensive, I can't afford it, but I want it anyway. So I'll take out a huge loan, which I also cannot afford, to buy something I don't really need, but feel is necessary because someone else has it.
Yeah, look where capitalism has gotten our world. Most countries are in debt, and damn near everyone is a selfish git. I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.
My point is what you are saying is completely untrue. You don't need hundreds of million of gold and hundreds of millions worth of gear to be able to comfortably farm act 3. You can buy gear with lots of resists and good stats for extremely low prices if you have bad luck farming. You don't need 4pc set bonuses and 1100+ dmg weapons to farm. People bitch at me all the time by profile browsing because I run Act 3 effortlessly with like 250 resists and mediocre gear on my barb. Compared to a lot of players, my gear is horrid, but my clearing time is just as fast.
Yeah, look where capitalism has gotten our world. Most countries are in debt, and damn near everyone is a selfish git. I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.
My point is what you are saying is completely untrue. You don't need hundreds of million of gold and hundreds of millions worth of gear to be able to comfortably farm act 3. You can buy gear with lots of resists and good stats for extremely low prices if you have bad luck farming. You don't need 4pc set bonuses and 1100+ dmg weapons to farm. People bitch at me all the time by profile browsing because I run Act 3 effortlessly with like 250 resists and mediocre gear on my barb. Compared to a lot of players, my gear is horrid, but my clearing time is just as fast.
Spending a few days to win gear through bids in an effort to maximum your currency's worth? Clearly you jest. What do you think this is, an exercise in real world principles and spending habits? Pffft, I want my gear and I want it now!
Yeah, look where capitalism has gotten our world. Most countries are in debt, and damn near everyone is a selfish git. I'm not talking about the top of tier 1, just good enough so I can kill smoothly, and not die as frequently as Kenny from South Park. Only way to get that kind of gear is to find it, because EVERYTHING is overpriced on BOTH auction houses.
My point is what you are saying is completely untrue. You don't need hundreds of million of gold and hundreds of millions worth of gear to be able to comfortably farm act 3. You can buy gear with lots of resists and good stats for extremely low prices if you have bad luck farming. You don't need 4pc set bonuses and 1100+ dmg weapons to farm. People bitch at me all the time by profile browsing because I run Act 3 effortlessly with like 250 resists and mediocre gear on my barb. Compared to a lot of players, my gear is horrid, but my clearing time is just as fast.
So true. I can comfortably farm all acts and Whimsy on Inferno and have not spent more than 1.5m on anything I got from the AH. I enjoy finding my own gear but sometimes you get stuck and frustrated on a different character. I sell most of the gear I find at much lower prices so they sell fast and can afford that 100m weapon if I really wanted it but I refuse to buy it at that price because it just justifies that price and adds to the problem.
Just an idea but I think it's time to put a stop to outrageous pricing on the gold AH. It's just out of hand. I've seen new legendary items up for 2 Billion gold. First of all, that won't sell because nobody that plays the game in a legit fashion could afford it. Second of all, the person that can afford it most likely doesn't need it. EPEEN is no excuse.
Now imagine, just for a second, that you got the most awesome legendary weapon dropped, and thought "fuck this shit, I'm pricing it at the moon". And then either a gold-farmer or someone who spend some dollars to get billions buy it. Holy crap, suddenly from day to night you're a freaking D3 billionaire and can buy whatever you want and equip as many characters as you want
If I looted something that simply isn't on the market right now (and has almost perfect rolls), I'd definitelly put an outragerous price on it. Sure, nobody will buy it, but if someone ever does, suddenly I'm very rich
I found a really nicely-rolled Andariel's Visage (dex) last night. I can say for certain that it's eating away at me as to what I should do with it. $250? Maybe 500 million? If I could get some poor asshole to fork over 2 billion gold for it, though, I sure would.
The amount of economic ignorance in this thread is staggering.
The "correct" price for an item- in the real world or in Diablo 3- is no more and no less than what it will sell for.
Prices are set by the natural state of the market and no amount of whining will change that.
Honestly, if you're buying any new legendary at this point (unless you know it to be worth what you are spending in the long run) you are making a mistake. Even beyond that, I'm not buying squat from the AH for at least a couple of weeks. Big inferno nerf + better drops + new legendaries == lower prices for mid to mid-top gear very soon.
Sounds great, BUT the problem runs much deeper than the effect the visitors of Diablofans could have, I think.
Only 116 people took part in the Boston Tea Party.
so we only need 116 people to hack blizzard servers and remove all these items. your analogy was stupid. rofl. I couldnt help be complete it for u
No, you just don't get it. If 116 people could have such a large impact on society then a small group of people could also have a large impact on the economy of a game.
AH prices are not out of control. You don't need 100m to buy gear that clears inferno (though having 20m+ is probably a good idea), and for sure you don't need gear for 100m a piece to farm inferno.
I never said you needed to spend 100m+ to clear inferno.
Sounds great, BUT the problem runs much deeper than the effect the visitors of Diablofans could have, I think.
Only 116 people took part in the Boston Tea Party.
so we only need 116 people to hack blizzard servers and remove all these items. your analogy was stupid. rofl. I couldnt help be complete it for u
No, you just don't get it. If 116 people could have such a large impact on society then a small group of people could also have a large impact on the economy of a game.
Yeah, except people tend to get a bit more riled up about tyranny and being taxed to death than they do about a virtual economy within a video game. Shocker, I know. Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.
I have an item that 500,000 people want.
I put it up for a price that 490,000 people will pay.
The item sells.
I have an item that 500,000 people want.
I put it up for a price that 490,000 people won't pay.
The item sells.
I'm not saying that everything sells, but a lot of things do sell, sometimes only for the reason to resell later. Either way, convincing someone with an item with incredible demand that they have to lower their prices because 98% of buyers won't pay that price doesn't won't really do much. If you want a private jet, you'll have to pay for a private jet...
Also suggesting that a weapon with a crit affix and an extra socket shouldn't far more expensive is to not recognize what those stats do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Anything I say can't, and won't be used against me because if they understood my point, they'd have given up theirs." -Christopher Hitchens
I'd like for this to happen, honestly I would, but people undercut on a daily basis and it hasn't made any change. with gold hovering arounr $1.00 - $1.50 for a million on the RMAH just imagine how much two billion gold item costs in real money. It's not worth it, not by any stretch of the imagination but still people who have obtained large ridiculous amounts of gold will buy it, I'm not sure how people even have hundreds of millions legitimately, it just blows my mind.most of the legendaries that are up for ridiculous amounts though aren't gonna sell most likely and the market will sort of find a medium. That people will actually pay and as time goes on and there are more and more of these items the prices will drop naturally. So it's just a matter of us poor folk having to wait for that time and try to scrounge together as much gold as we can in the mean time.
Just an idea but I think it's time to put a stop to outrageous pricing on the gold AH. It's just out of hand. I've seen new legendary items up for 2 Billion gold. First of all, that won't sell because nobody that plays the game in a legit fashion could afford it. Second of all, the person that can afford it most likely doesn't need it. EPEEN is no excuse.
It pains me to point out something so obvious, but disallowing people to set their own price essentially nullifies the AH as a system for exchange. If you cap the gold amount people are allowed to ask for, trade channels again reign supreme and the price will not change for the better due to the fact that the amount of goods which can be easily exchanged is much smaller by that method.
The average player may go to the auction house after saving up gold and buy a new weapon for 10-15 Million because it increases DPS by 2000 or add a good amount of LoH but listing a weapon for 100 Million + just because it has a socket and 40% crit dmg is ridiculous. The gap between good items and great items is way too large.
And you are soon to see it plummet by the forces of supply and demand. Currently, there are a TON of legendary items hitting the AH and many of them are almost impossible to get "worthless," rolls on in relationship to their stats. People buying them for hundreds of millions today are getting first dibs, sure, but rest assured that in a few weeks those items are going to be worth a fraction of that simply because most players will already have that item or an equivalent. The same could not be said pre-patch with the incredible scarcity and uncertainty of high-roll rares; however, this patch has changed much about the commonality of "good," items.
I propose that we should come together and start listing items at lower prices as a whole to bring the market down. I personally have already cleared Inferno on my Monk and leveled all 5 classes to 60 so I'm not in any rush to buy many upgrades but I know that there are a lot of people out there that need upgrades to clear inferno.
Feel free to do so, but realize that you are not actually driving down costs down a meaningful amount by this method. Unless you have a large enough sack of coin to re-list (and I hope you're feeling charitable because this is basically giving gold away) a large quantity of a given item, the price will trend back to equilibrium.
Also since I list my items at much lower prices, they sell super fast and I make a good deal of gold anyway. I know that if more people lower their prices to a reasonable level I will make less gold per item that I sell but in turn the items I buy will be less expensive so I won't need as much gold. I also know that Gems aren't going to come down since they are expensive to make but every other item should.
You are, of course, correct in estimating that competetive pricing works wonders for sales; however, that is simply because (as I stated above) the price of all these goods are trending down faster than unrealistic sellers are setting obnoxiously high price listings. If you undercut by less than 10% today with most items, the odds of making a sale are slim. I would certainly advise anyone who wishes to make gold that they use a 20% rule of thumb unless they are quite sure their item is of a rarity which could becalm the overall market force.
All prices in the AH are relative to similar quality items in the AH but what people don't realize is that if an item were priced way too high, it will remain in the AH unsold. Then when someone finds an item and searches the AH for an item of similar quality and says "HOLY $#!T That one is selling for 100M, I'm going to be rich!", what they don't realize is that it is still in the AH for a reason. At this point yo now have multiple items of similar quality in the AH in this range which causes people to think that everything of this quality is worth this much.
This scenario presumes that said item is actually rare enough to only have two present on the AH. For the vast majority of cases this is untrue. In those cases; however, and if those items are highly sought after, it is quite sensible that they command the highest price someone is willing to pay. In the case of most items, there will simply be two astronomically high listings followed by a rather dramatic stair-step down until sales begin to take place. Remember that AH slots are not unlimited and every minute one allows an item to sit at a high price there is a chance that one of millions of other players will find the same item (or quite similar) and undercut. The incentive is certainly not (in most cases) to list too high, but rather to list just low enough to entice a buyer.
Now in the next game they find something with similar stats just lower values of it. They end up thinking, "If my Godly one is selling for 100M then this one must sell for at least 50M..." This makes lesser quality items get listed for much more. Since people used the Ferrari as an example, we can use that here if this were a real life situation.
As item quality drops, rarity decreases, and competition increases. There is no merit in this comparison because if you are basing your listing on an item with far greater stats, you're making a poor judgment call. So what if you list your cracked sash for 50m? Others may follow suit if they like, but ultimately the buyers will not take the bait until the price is closer to what they are willing to pay.
The 2012 Ferrari 458 Italia goes for $229,825 starting MSRP. It has a Verified 0-60 time of 3.3 sec
The 2012 Nissan GT-R Primium goes for $89,950 starting MSRP and has a Verified 0-60 time of 2.8 sec.
Brand recognition doesn't translate very well into the game; not the best example you could have come up with.
The Nissan has a better 0-60 time and better gas mileage if that's what your into. It also has much higher torque rating at a lower RPM. All in all it outperforms the Ferrari. Now in a real life economy they don't price it to match or price it higher than the Ferrari even though it performs better.
In the real world there is a prestige associated with ownership of a ferarri which does not come with more generic brands. This does not exist in the game. Unique items are far too common to command that kind of mark-up. The only items in the game which would even broach this level of recognition elevation are literal "perfect," rolls which have the absolute highest possible stats in the most ideal affixes. I would certainly assume that, should some of those items come along, you could expect to pay billions of gold just to gain a few stat points, assuming you were upgrading from an all-but-perfect item already.
The problem is, the crux of your argument does not hedge on the limited number of absolutely perfect items, but the cost of "good," items of a middling variety, presumably good enough to farm act3/4 comfortably. As I stated from the get-go, these items are absolutely booming in supply now. They are not the ferarri from your example, but rather a model T ford. Pre-patch the "good," items (using act3 as a benchmark) were like the pre-assembly-line automobiles: hard to acquire, relatively rare, and sufficiently expensive to keep most players from buying. Post-patch they are now the mass-produced machines we nearly all take for granted today: not very hard to come by and the continuous competition (with even fewer consumers relative to producers than in the real world) all the while there to keep the price trending down.
TL;DR: The suggestion to effectively disable the AH is short-sighted and the suggestion to attempt a market manipulation (in reverse) is similarly ill-conceived. I wish you the best of luck if you choose to take this on yourself, please feel free to sell your discounted goods around the 9-10pm eastern standard time period. I would be more than happy to render my bidding hand to your generous cause.
Look at it this way... when an item sells for 100 million, that's 15 million gold out of the economy and one less person competing for that kind of item. That's some deflationary pressure right there.
Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.
I think you are on to something here.
Where to find a few hundred thousaid sacrifical lambs....
Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.
I think you are on to something here.
Where to find a few hundred thousaid sacrifical lambs....
*rubs chin*
The official forums are that-a-way ----->
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
But i agree with you in earnest.
Sometimes i look at some item similar to mine and see it listed for 20-40 mil or something... then I evaluate how much I would really like to buy something like it for and set it for much less, for the said example something like 4-8 mil.
It sells very quickly...
I have no way of knowing the guy that listed for 20 sold or not (well maybe I do but it is not like ill set an alarm clock just to check that stuff), but i stand pretty satisfied I got my gold and someone got an item that he will brag for having bought for cheap on the AH.
The sad side of my story is that I myself just dont find deals like this for myself...SO if i need to upgrade I pretty much just wait til my bank allows me to dump 40-50 mil for a single piece...
Then I am below average, I cant afford 10 million things.. Make it a 2 million even, then MAYBE!
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
No, sorry, it doesn't ruin the economy - it is the economy. What it does ruin is your fantasy ideal of getting items, of which the rarity is akin to winning the lottery, for a pittance of their real potential value, simply because you think being spoon-fed everything is fun. Sorry, that isn't how it works here, or anywhere else. You play, you earn gold, you buy stuff. Rinse and repeat, climbing the gear ladder. This game isn't supposed to be "lol give me the best gear for 27 gold so I can let my cat play during the day it's so easy." You're supposed to grind for months, even years, to obtain the best. Stop trying to cut to the front of the line on someone else's dime.
Absolutely EVERYTHING, no hyperbole there. Every. Last. Item. Overpriced. I mean, no one can afford anything. That weapon I sold last week for 50 million? Blizzard bought it to give the idea that items were actually moving. It's really a huge scheme to keep us playing longer, really. Make stuff so expensive we have no choice but to play forever!
No, see, most people are in debt ironically because of attitudes like yours. Everything is too expensive, I can't afford it, but I want it anyway. So I'll take out a huge loan, which I also cannot afford, to buy something I don't really need, but feel is necessary because someone else has it.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
My point is what you are saying is completely untrue. You don't need hundreds of million of gold and hundreds of millions worth of gear to be able to comfortably farm act 3. You can buy gear with lots of resists and good stats for extremely low prices if you have bad luck farming. You don't need 4pc set bonuses and 1100+ dmg weapons to farm. People bitch at me all the time by profile browsing because I run Act 3 effortlessly with like 250 resists and mediocre gear on my barb. Compared to a lot of players, my gear is horrid, but my clearing time is just as fast.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
Spending a few days to win gear through bids in an effort to maximum your currency's worth? Clearly you jest. What do you think this is, an exercise in real world principles and spending habits? Pffft, I want my gear and I want it now!
/sarcasm
So true. I can comfortably farm all acts and Whimsy on Inferno and have not spent more than 1.5m on anything I got from the AH. I enjoy finding my own gear but sometimes you get stuck and frustrated on a different character. I sell most of the gear I find at much lower prices so they sell fast and can afford that 100m weapon if I really wanted it but I refuse to buy it at that price because it just justifies that price and adds to the problem.
Demon Hunter - Fadeddeath
Monk - Lumos
Witch Doctor - Nox
Wizard - Nethershade
I found a really nicely-rolled Andariel's Visage (dex) last night. I can say for certain that it's eating away at me as to what I should do with it. $250? Maybe 500 million? If I could get some poor asshole to fork over 2 billion gold for it, though, I sure would.
The "correct" price for an item- in the real world or in Diablo 3- is no more and no less than what it will sell for.
Prices are set by the natural state of the market and no amount of whining will change that.
so we only need 116 people to hack blizzard servers and remove all these items. your analogy was stupid. rofl. I couldnt help be complete it for u
No, you just don't get it. If 116 people could have such a large impact on society then a small group of people could also have a large impact on the economy of a game.
Demon Hunter - Fadeddeath
Monk - Lumos
Witch Doctor - Nox
Wizard - Nethershade
Demon Hunter - Fadeddeath
Monk - Lumos
Witch Doctor - Nox
Wizard - Nethershade
Yeah, except people tend to get a bit more riled up about tyranny and being taxed to death than they do about a virtual economy within a video game. Shocker, I know. Also, the Boston Tea Party was only a catalyst; it took hundreds of thousands of deaths to win the war. Important tidbit you seem to have missed. Silly analogy, makes no sense.
I put it up for a price that 490,000 people will pay.
The item sells.
I have an item that 500,000 people want.
I put it up for a price that 490,000 people won't pay.
The item sells.
I'm not saying that everything sells, but a lot of things do sell, sometimes only for the reason to resell later. Either way, convincing someone with an item with incredible demand that they have to lower their prices because 98% of buyers won't pay that price doesn't won't really do much. If you want a private jet, you'll have to pay for a private jet...
Also suggesting that a weapon with a crit affix and an extra socket shouldn't far more expensive is to not recognize what those stats do.
It pains me to point out something so obvious, but disallowing people to set their own price essentially nullifies the AH as a system for exchange. If you cap the gold amount people are allowed to ask for, trade channels again reign supreme and the price will not change for the better due to the fact that the amount of goods which can be easily exchanged is much smaller by that method.
And you are soon to see it plummet by the forces of supply and demand. Currently, there are a TON of legendary items hitting the AH and many of them are almost impossible to get "worthless," rolls on in relationship to their stats. People buying them for hundreds of millions today are getting first dibs, sure, but rest assured that in a few weeks those items are going to be worth a fraction of that simply because most players will already have that item or an equivalent. The same could not be said pre-patch with the incredible scarcity and uncertainty of high-roll rares; however, this patch has changed much about the commonality of "good," items.
Feel free to do so, but realize that you are not actually driving down costs down a meaningful amount by this method. Unless you have a large enough sack of coin to re-list (and I hope you're feeling charitable because this is basically giving gold away) a large quantity of a given item, the price will trend back to equilibrium.
You are, of course, correct in estimating that competetive pricing works wonders for sales; however, that is simply because (as I stated above) the price of all these goods are trending down faster than unrealistic sellers are setting obnoxiously high price listings. If you undercut by less than 10% today with most items, the odds of making a sale are slim. I would certainly advise anyone who wishes to make gold that they use a 20% rule of thumb unless they are quite sure their item is of a rarity which could becalm the overall market force.
This scenario presumes that said item is actually rare enough to only have two present on the AH. For the vast majority of cases this is untrue. In those cases; however, and if those items are highly sought after, it is quite sensible that they command the highest price someone is willing to pay. In the case of most items, there will simply be two astronomically high listings followed by a rather dramatic stair-step down until sales begin to take place. Remember that AH slots are not unlimited and every minute one allows an item to sit at a high price there is a chance that one of millions of other players will find the same item (or quite similar) and undercut. The incentive is certainly not (in most cases) to list too high, but rather to list just low enough to entice a buyer.
As item quality drops, rarity decreases, and competition increases. There is no merit in this comparison because if you are basing your listing on an item with far greater stats, you're making a poor judgment call. So what if you list your cracked sash for 50m? Others may follow suit if they like, but ultimately the buyers will not take the bait until the price is closer to what they are willing to pay.
Brand recognition doesn't translate very well into the game; not the best example you could have come up with.
In the real world there is a prestige associated with ownership of a ferarri which does not come with more generic brands. This does not exist in the game. Unique items are far too common to command that kind of mark-up. The only items in the game which would even broach this level of recognition elevation are literal "perfect," rolls which have the absolute highest possible stats in the most ideal affixes. I would certainly assume that, should some of those items come along, you could expect to pay billions of gold just to gain a few stat points, assuming you were upgrading from an all-but-perfect item already.
The problem is, the crux of your argument does not hedge on the limited number of absolutely perfect items, but the cost of "good," items of a middling variety, presumably good enough to farm act3/4 comfortably. As I stated from the get-go, these items are absolutely booming in supply now. They are not the ferarri from your example, but rather a model T ford. Pre-patch the "good," items (using act3 as a benchmark) were like the pre-assembly-line automobiles: hard to acquire, relatively rare, and sufficiently expensive to keep most players from buying. Post-patch they are now the mass-produced machines we nearly all take for granted today: not very hard to come by and the continuous competition (with even fewer consumers relative to producers than in the real world) all the while there to keep the price trending down.
TL;DR: The suggestion to effectively disable the AH is short-sighted and the suggestion to attempt a market manipulation (in reverse) is similarly ill-conceived. I wish you the best of luck if you choose to take this on yourself, please feel free to sell your discounted goods around the 9-10pm eastern standard time period. I would be more than happy to render my bidding hand to your generous cause.
I think you are on to something here.
Where to find a few hundred thousaid sacrifical lambs....
*rubs chin*
The official forums are that-a-way ----->