Does anyone know if this is still the plan? I think this is a really big deal in a negative way... possibly the biggest issue that came out of the demo, because what makes Diablo, imo, is the loot system and player and group interactions with it. That being said, I recently posted this:
"The concept of 100% your own loot tables is completely inane imo.
Someone needs to go and get this message across to the blizzard team: They should allow everyone to see all items, because it's a pain for every player to inform every other player of every item JUST IN CASE another player wants it. It's better to allow everyone to see all items dropped, but have a pickup timer. After the timer expires, anyone can take the item. Pickup timers should probably be no more than 10-20 seconds.
It also ruins some of the RPG aspects of the game to have an item drop, and I can't see it drop. It takes some of the immersiveness and believability out of the game and environment.
Zeto"
and I was wondering if anyone actually did or would go over to the forums to post it so Bashiok can read it and others can comment. The fact that today's headline is a post regarding him actually reading and dealing with issues like this... I think it's pretty huge, and made me wonder if they'd considered the ridiculousness of having 100% individual drops.
I still think it should be 1 of two systems:
System 1: Loot from regular crits should drop for everyone. Nobody is expecting magic items falling from the sky as regular drops. This means that nobody will be camping for them, and ganking of these items will be few and far between. it also totally eliminates the need for any special system to allow others to have items that drop for you. Drops from bosses would be individualized loot (even better if all are visible with longer pickup timers,) why? because it's all in 1 location and you expect items you may want... meaning everyone will be standing around it waiting to click everything like in D2.
System 2: As stated in my original post, all individual loot can be on pickup timers. This solves all problems.
Other concerns: If your kills never drop loot for me, that means I can't leech for gain, but it also means that there will be terrible balance issues between AE vs. singular based classes, combat control classes (fear, stun, heals, whatever,) and other support type classes would be totally disadvantaged based on sheer kill rates.
Will someone please repost these issues on their official forums, and post a link here to it? I'd also like to hear discussion about this specific design 'flaw' as I consider the loot system in a dungeon crawl like 50% of the game, stats/abilities are like 30%, and the environment and graphics even less at 20%.
I fear that they may go for graphics and unique looks on the paperdoll in lieu of a diverse quantity of quality choices. We need an even bigger array of items with item classes (regular, magic, rare, unique, crafted, set, etc,) quality of the item (rusty dagger vs. new dagger,) sockets, types (leather vs. chain armor,) and hundreds or thousands of possible modifiers, prefixes, and suffixes.
Hate to make this seem like wow, but having loot options seems like a good idea for parties. Then you could make it FFA if you are with your friends you trust.
it's a pain for every player to inform every other player of every item JUST IN CASE another player wants it.
If a good item drops for me I'm probably going to keep it no matter what. It's not like I'm stealing from other people since they all get their own drop as well. If I can't use the item right away, I can either save it for when I can us it, or trade it for something I want. It was my drop so I can choose to do with it what I want.
Quote from "Zeto" »
It also ruins some of the RPG aspects of the game to have an item drop, and I can't see it drop. It takes some of the immersiveness and believability out of the game and environment.
However, it also adds fun to the game for the ranged classes who aren't right next to the enemy when it is killed. Those players don't currently have a chance to pick up any drops.
Quote from "Zeto" »
If your kills never drop loot for me, that means I can't leech for gain, but it also means that there will be terrible balance issues between AE vs. singular based classes, combat control classes (fear, stun, heals, whatever,) and other support type classes would be totally disadvantaged based on sheer kill rates.
Individual loot drops are not based on who makes the kill. If I am in a group and make a kill, everyone in my group has a chance to see their own item dropped from that enemy. I think this is the ideal system ... you are encouraged to group so that you can kill faster, which means more item drops. In D2 the person with the fastest connection or the best hack will get all of the items all of the time, this wont be the case anymore.
This way is more fair. Everyone will see drops, everyone gains from grouping up. In turn, everyone gets a little bit of wealth which they can use to trade for better gear. What's not to like?
Yeah, something in the middle would probably be better, like:
- Drops are individual, locked to some player.
- Everyone can see all drops.
- Drops that don't belong to you could have a different color, like gray for example.
- After x time, they would be pickable by everyone.
Or, make loot options. I don't care about what drops and who takes it when playing with personal friends.
The problem was that in D2's system, people stopped playing the fucking game to get in position for drops. Example: the end of every Baal run.
I don't see how D3's system ruins immersiveness. It will be like playing with a bunch of people who are kind enough to leave all the drops to you. If you're a nice guy and you see something nice drop but don't want it, pick it up and drop it. It's not like you're gonna be screaming "hay guys inferior sword any1 need??" every 3 seconds.
I hated Guild Wars system where you could see all drops but they were assigned to different people. Now THAT ruins immersion. Who is this invisible, all powerful demigod ensuring that we're playing fair? What if I really wanted that item damn it? At least with D3's system you don't have to feel cheated if other people are getting sweet drops and you're not.
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-Hunter S. Thompson
The problem was that in D2's system, people stopped playing the fucking game to get in position for drops. Example: the end of every Baal run.
I don't see how it ruins immersiveness. It will be like playing with a bunch of people who are kind enough to leave all the drops to you. If you're a nice guy and you see something nice drop but don't want it, pick it up and drop it. It's not like you're gonna be screaming "hay guys inferior sword any1 need??" every 3 seconds.
I agree. I like the new loot drop system, no one hovering near a boss waiting for items, no one using programs to pickup items. None of that sort of thing.
The problem was that in D2's system, people stopped playing the fucking game to get in position for drops. Example: the end of every Baal run.
I don't see how D3's system ruins immersiveness. It will be like playing with a bunch of people who are kind enough to leave all the drops to you. If you're a nice guy and you see something nice drop but don't want it, pick it up and drop it. It's not like you're gonna be screaming "hay guys inferior sword any1 need??" every 3 seconds.
I hated Guild Wars system where you could see all drops but they were assigned to different people. Now THAT ruins immersion. Who is this invisible, all powerful demigod ensuring that we're playing fair? What if I really wanted that item damn it? At least with D3's system you don't have to feel cheated if other people are getting sweet drops and you're not.
Anyway you saw people asking things like "Got anything good ?" "What was it ?" because everything was picked up so fast. Won't be much of a difference.
Anyway you saw people asking things like "Got anything good ?" "What was it ?" because everything was picked up so fast. Won't be much of a difference.
Right. Except people won't be clambering over each other for drops. I didn't play that game, man. I've got more dignity than that.
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Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Anyway you saw people asking things like "Got anything good ?" "What was it ?" because everything was picked up so fast. Won't be much of a difference.
It's either people ask what dropped, or people yell at one another for stealing all the drops with a pickup program.
I think they should keep the d2 way of doing thing. In that way the fastest player get alle the good loot. Always hated wow for beening "fair" with the rolls and stuff. Let the skill of the player determine how he rules the game.
Such an unfair advantage though. Just because you are an insanely quick clicker means you get all the loot and everyone else just wasted their time? This was a definite problem in D2 and I rarely got any loot because others were faster than me in most cases (being able to hold alt and click on loot super quick is not an indicator of skill), and in reality you can only hope to get one piece of loot while the others get snatched. There was no cases of people identifying the loot and then asking if others wanted from my experience either. It was kill boss - grab loot - bounce. That system sucked imo. I like how Blizz has it now. If anything it encourages people to share their findings and provide more chances for people to get loot.
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The hotkey to show loot is stupid... do you want to be hitting the hotkey all the time or be a jerk if you don't? Just use a unique color for locked items, and normal colors for items you can pick up.
Anyone that doesn't understand the inherent problems and how stupid it is for everyone to have their own drops without anyone else being able to see them AND the fact that you have to share that knowledge actively or not at all... is blind, stupid, or both.
What could ANY of you possibly have against a pickup timer system? It's the best of all worlds. You get all your own drops, and you get to know what other drops are as well. You even get to pick them up if the owner doesn't want/take them. Nobody can steal loot in this system... it's perfect.
Anyone that doesn't understand the inherent problems and how stupid it is for everyone to have their own drops without anyone else being able to see them AND the fact that you have to share that knowledge actively or not at all... is blind, stupid, or both.
Zeto
I see no problem of not being able to see others loot. It's not mine, why should I care. If they want to sell it they'll ask if I want it. If it's a friend then I'll ask them what they got.
The only problems I see arise from people being greedy. If you can't see the loot, too bad, it's not yours, it shouldn't even matter.
What could ANY of you possibly have against a pickup timer system? It's the best of all worlds. You get all your own drops, and you get to know what other drops are as well. You even get to pick them up if the owner doesn't want/take them. Nobody can steal loot in this system... it's perfect.
Pick up timer works fine, but I see no problem in seeing only items intended for you.
It's annoying in D2 when you managed to get an item that you know you can trade for something you need and some whiner begs for it.
And all items are unidentified anyways, so if items you can't pick up are another colour, you'll just see another player pick up a short sword, so then who the fuck cares anyways?
And all items are unidentified anyways, so if items you can't pick up are another colour, you'll just see another player pick up a short sword, so then who the fuck cares anyways?
Good point.
Don't see why you need to look at other peoples drops anyway... it's kind of like each of you going to play a solo game then joining back up in a regular match and asking what the other got.
I don't see loot dropping for everyone off every monster.
Each monster has to be programmed to calculate everyone's magic find?
That sounds like a lot of work. I don't want to even think about that.
I've already been waiting an eternity for this game.
As well, the rich get richer situation is annoying.
How can you ever get strong when you're not progressing in items?
Then you're useless later. It'll eventually catch up with you, leaving those that kill faster evermore acceleratedly advancing. Imagine if there was a cow level - maxed out Locust Swarm, multiple times, on a mob of 100+ cows?
Even if you are "skilled," even if you maybe can solo a run... would you rather that run be 30 minutes as opposed to 2 hours because everyone knows you'll get all the loot they worked equally for so they don't want to party with you?
And if you aren't getting much kills - shouldn't you get loot so you can start getting kills, benefiting the team and pulling your weight?
I never liked how a few people were ridiculously good and most were good but in an average way.
I was always helping people, being asked for things, friends couldn't catch up to me.
And just the same - why should people you are far better than have the opportunity to get just as good loot as you? To this I say don't you want a challenge and some competition?
In D2 I always found that no one wanted to trade unless they were ripping you off and they didn't want to duel if there was that 50/50 chance. They wanted to have an advantage or they wouldn't duel.
I like how everyone is equal. Then true skill and not just loot decides who is better.
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"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
I definitely like the idea of the new system so that everyone concentrates on killing rather than on clicking and running for loot. That doesn't seem at all like how the situation would be played out if the Diablo world were real.
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"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
THIS NEW SYSTEM IS AWSOME!!! Im sick of having all the people who use pickit to get the items from D I sit there i alt he dies and BAM! it hits the ground but only for one second and im sittin there clickin like mad but dont get crap...This news system is AWSOME!!
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If we could somehow make this
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Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I think the new system for loot is better. Other then the fact you wont see the loot.
I would say it would be more fair if EVERYONE can see the loot, but each char within that group is designated a portion of that loot. Meaning, the loot is visible, but each member only gets to pick up some of it. This prevents the right click around body and allows complaint over the not getting loot. The idea that Magic find is based on the individual within the group then the last person to hit seems more fair too.
More adventuring to find different items and more glory in your perservering success.\
You start to get sidetracked when you see an item, which someone else is going to get anyway, and the game just became a "I need to find that." hassle. You've just lost your immersion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
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"The concept of 100% your own loot tables is completely inane imo.
Someone needs to go and get this message across to the blizzard team: They should allow everyone to see all items, because it's a pain for every player to inform every other player of every item JUST IN CASE another player wants it. It's better to allow everyone to see all items dropped, but have a pickup timer. After the timer expires, anyone can take the item. Pickup timers should probably be no more than 10-20 seconds.
It also ruins some of the RPG aspects of the game to have an item drop, and I can't see it drop. It takes some of the immersiveness and believability out of the game and environment.
Zeto"
and I was wondering if anyone actually did or would go over to the forums to post it so Bashiok can read it and others can comment. The fact that today's headline is a post regarding him actually reading and dealing with issues like this... I think it's pretty huge, and made me wonder if they'd considered the ridiculousness of having 100% individual drops.
I still think it should be 1 of two systems:
System 1: Loot from regular crits should drop for everyone. Nobody is expecting magic items falling from the sky as regular drops. This means that nobody will be camping for them, and ganking of these items will be few and far between. it also totally eliminates the need for any special system to allow others to have items that drop for you. Drops from bosses would be individualized loot (even better if all are visible with longer pickup timers,) why? because it's all in 1 location and you expect items you may want... meaning everyone will be standing around it waiting to click everything like in D2.
System 2: As stated in my original post, all individual loot can be on pickup timers. This solves all problems.
Other concerns: If your kills never drop loot for me, that means I can't leech for gain, but it also means that there will be terrible balance issues between AE vs. singular based classes, combat control classes (fear, stun, heals, whatever,) and other support type classes would be totally disadvantaged based on sheer kill rates.
Will someone please repost these issues on their official forums, and post a link here to it? I'd also like to hear discussion about this specific design 'flaw' as I consider the loot system in a dungeon crawl like 50% of the game, stats/abilities are like 30%, and the environment and graphics even less at 20%.
I fear that they may go for graphics and unique looks on the paperdoll in lieu of a diverse quantity of quality choices. We need an even bigger array of items with item classes (regular, magic, rare, unique, crafted, set, etc,) quality of the item (rusty dagger vs. new dagger,) sockets, types (leather vs. chain armor,) and hundreds or thousands of possible modifiers, prefixes, and suffixes.
Zeto
If a good item drops for me I'm probably going to keep it no matter what. It's not like I'm stealing from other people since they all get their own drop as well. If I can't use the item right away, I can either save it for when I can us it, or trade it for something I want. It was my drop so I can choose to do with it what I want.
However, it also adds fun to the game for the ranged classes who aren't right next to the enemy when it is killed. Those players don't currently have a chance to pick up any drops.
Individual loot drops are not based on who makes the kill. If I am in a group and make a kill, everyone in my group has a chance to see their own item dropped from that enemy. I think this is the ideal system ... you are encouraged to group so that you can kill faster, which means more item drops. In D2 the person with the fastest connection or the best hack will get all of the items all of the time, this wont be the case anymore.
This way is more fair. Everyone will see drops, everyone gains from grouping up. In turn, everyone gets a little bit of wealth which they can use to trade for better gear. What's not to like?
What will socketed items look like:O
I don't see how D3's system ruins immersiveness. It will be like playing with a bunch of people who are kind enough to leave all the drops to you. If you're a nice guy and you see something nice drop but don't want it, pick it up and drop it. It's not like you're gonna be screaming "hay guys inferior sword any1 need??" every 3 seconds.
I hated Guild Wars system where you could see all drops but they were assigned to different people. Now THAT ruins immersion. Who is this invisible, all powerful demigod ensuring that we're playing fair? What if I really wanted that item damn it? At least with D3's system you don't have to feel cheated if other people are getting sweet drops and you're not.
-Hunter S. Thompson
TED . LEAP . Woot . MF
I agree. I like the new loot drop system, no one hovering near a boss waiting for items, no one using programs to pickup items. None of that sort of thing.
Anyway you saw people asking things like "Got anything good ?" "What was it ?" because everything was picked up so fast. Won't be much of a difference.
Right. Except people won't be clambering over each other for drops. I didn't play that game, man. I've got more dignity than that.
-Hunter S. Thompson
TED . LEAP . Woot . MF
It's either people ask what dropped, or people yell at one another for stealing all the drops with a pickup program.
I prefer the asking.
Such an unfair advantage though. Just because you are an insanely quick clicker means you get all the loot and everyone else just wasted their time? This was a definite problem in D2 and I rarely got any loot because others were faster than me in most cases (being able to hold alt and click on loot super quick is not an indicator of skill), and in reality you can only hope to get one piece of loot while the others get snatched. There was no cases of people identifying the loot and then asking if others wanted from my experience either. It was kill boss - grab loot - bounce. That system sucked imo. I like how Blizz has it now. If anything it encourages people to share their findings and provide more chances for people to get loot.
Anyone that doesn't understand the inherent problems and how stupid it is for everyone to have their own drops without anyone else being able to see them AND the fact that you have to share that knowledge actively or not at all... is blind, stupid, or both.
What could ANY of you possibly have against a pickup timer system? It's the best of all worlds. You get all your own drops, and you get to know what other drops are as well. You even get to pick them up if the owner doesn't want/take them. Nobody can steal loot in this system... it's perfect.
Zeto
I see no problem of not being able to see others loot. It's not mine, why should I care. If they want to sell it they'll ask if I want it. If it's a friend then I'll ask them what they got.
The only problems I see arise from people being greedy. If you can't see the loot, too bad, it's not yours, it shouldn't even matter.
Pick up timer works fine, but I see no problem in seeing only items intended for you.
It's annoying in D2 when you managed to get an item that you know you can trade for something you need and some whiner begs for it.
And all items are unidentified anyways, so if items you can't pick up are another colour, you'll just see another player pick up a short sword, so then who the fuck cares anyways?
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
Good point.
Don't see why you need to look at other peoples drops anyway... it's kind of like each of you going to play a solo game then joining back up in a regular match and asking what the other got.
Each monster has to be programmed to calculate everyone's magic find?
That sounds like a lot of work. I don't want to even think about that.
I've already been waiting an eternity for this game.
As well, the rich get richer situation is annoying.
How can you ever get strong when you're not progressing in items?
Then you're useless later. It'll eventually catch up with you, leaving those that kill faster evermore acceleratedly advancing. Imagine if there was a cow level - maxed out Locust Swarm, multiple times, on a mob of 100+ cows?
Even if you are "skilled," even if you maybe can solo a run... would you rather that run be 30 minutes as opposed to 2 hours because everyone knows you'll get all the loot they worked equally for so they don't want to party with you?
And if you aren't getting much kills - shouldn't you get loot so you can start getting kills, benefiting the team and pulling your weight?
I never liked how a few people were ridiculously good and most were good but in an average way.
I was always helping people, being asked for things, friends couldn't catch up to me.
And just the same - why should people you are far better than have the opportunity to get just as good loot as you? To this I say don't you want a challenge and some competition?
In D2 I always found that no one wanted to trade unless they were ripping you off and they didn't want to duel if there was that 50/50 chance. They wanted to have an advantage or they wouldn't duel.
I like how everyone is equal. Then true skill and not just loot decides who is better.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I would say it would be more fair if EVERYONE can see the loot, but each char within that group is designated a portion of that loot. Meaning, the loot is visible, but each member only gets to pick up some of it. This prevents the right click around body and allows complaint over the not getting loot. The idea that Magic find is based on the individual within the group then the last person to hit seems more fair too.
When it drops for me, it drops for me.
More adventuring to find different items and more glory in your perservering success.\
You start to get sidetracked when you see an item, which someone else is going to get anyway, and the game just became a "I need to find that." hassle. You've just lost your immersion.