There should be no whining. Barbs will still do more damage than M6 DHs.
The highest clear before was 70, the highest clear by M6 DHs was I believe 61 without Sever. A 9 level difference means mobs on 70 have 4x health as they do on 61. So, barbs were putting out 4x the effective dps as M6 Dhs.
A nerf to 100% instead of 500%, reduces barb's damage by 1/3 (100% is a 2x multiplier, 500% is 6x multiplier). Therefor, they will still put out more damage than M6.
to the ground. 500 was definitely too much but 100 makes invoker and ik similar sets. i cant stand another half of a year raekoring lvl40 grift to find last piece of my ancient gear = weapon. will prob quit for some time or reroll
to the ground. 500 was definitely too much but 100 makes invoker and ik similar sets. i cant stand another half of a year raekoring lvl40 grift to find last piece of my ancient gear = weapon. will prob quit for some time or reroll
Stop complaining and actually test it as you seem unable to do basic math. IK can easily clear GR45+. I'm clearing GR48+ only with IK and Bul Khatos.
Single target damage is as bad as ever though (in solo at least).
sure. gr 48 7 mins and rift guardian around 15 min. before nerf. non ancient bulkatos set ramaladned.
common raekor+ random ancient 2hander will perform nearly same
pretty boring change really granted it was absurdly op before now its just going to be another "ok" set raekor was only good cause it was the only option pre patch(how you like those bad Rift guardians though?) would have been nice for a set that i didnt have to get an energy drink to stay awake to kill the rift guardian with to be really strong
I wish they would have just fixed some of the many bugs that were making it over perform first, and then saw where it was. While it can certainly still compete with other classes/sets, it's with yet another great at AOE sucks at STD build. My hope was that they would find a way to make IK a good STD/moderate AOE set, and allow for multiple different builds to be effective-ish (I really want HotA and SS to be viable).
Instead, it doesn't really give a much different feel than Reakor, at least to me. I hope they re-revise the set. It certainly was way to powerful in the last iteration, but I feel like they could have brought it inline with other sets without ruining the viability of some of those other skills.
Man this nerf really, really hurt. 500% might have been too much, with a non ancient GoJ and non optimized gear, I was able to HoTA smash for about 34B a minute single target, and it felt awesome.
What I don't understand though is why almost every other class gets a huge 400-500% damage buff from THEIR sets. With IK at 500%, I was able to get 225m crits with hota. That's less than my bell crits from my Season 2 monk. Now it's reduced to 75m crits. I get that with WW and ancients the IK made them super OP, but instead of finding a way to nerf those a bit, hota and SS are seemingly useless again.
I was excited to actually play a non WW barb, since I grinded to paragon 100 with one back in vanilla. But as it stands, and unless I'm dead wrong, WW is going to be the clear winner by a mile now. Maybe I'll just roll a sader in S3.
For those whining and not looking at the numbers I posted, I guarantee you 2 IK barbs, WD, Sader will still be able to clear at least 63 with this nerf. Which is still better than any current DH M6 group, without sever.
For those whining and not looking at the numbers I posted, I guarantee you 2 IK barbs, WD, Sader will still be able to clear at least 63 with this nerf. Which is still better than any current DH M6 group, without sever.
Cool, so you're saying barbs are about even with the DH's on LIVE.
There should be no whining. Barbs will still do more damage than M6 DHs.
The highest clear before was 70, the highest clear by M6 DHs was I believe 61 without Sever. A 9 level difference means mobs on 70 have 4x health as they do on 61. So, barbs were putting out 4x the effective dps as M6 Dhs.
A nerf to 100% instead of 500%, reduces barb's damage by 1/3 (100% is a 2x multiplier, 500% is 6x multiplier). Therefor, they will still put out more damage than M6.
The problem with this math, and the math that someone posted prior to the actual tuning (not really a nerf since it's a PTR), is that it's all based on a couple of outlier builds. There were a lot of things wrong with IK before the tuning pass, but the solution (assuming the goal is skill/build diversity) wasn't to tune based on outlier builds.
The builds that were over-performing the most were builds that used WW and FC. One of those skills has it's own set in the making, the other already has a set built around it. For FC, the builds are just a slight variation of existing builds. Since they tuned the set completely based on those builds (instead of narrowing the skills that benefit and fixing some bugs) the only truly viable builds are... ones that already existed. HotA and SS builds, or any other possible new build got thrashed because of the synergy 500% had with a few specific skills (FC, WW, WoTB-slaughter, BR-bloodshed).
The set itself probably needed a to be toned down anyway, even with those changes, but it was certainly not -400%. This means that the same heavy AOE, almost laughable STD builds are still the only way to play barbs. The issue is that with these changes, IK doesn't offer any varied gameplay from previous iterations of the barbarian.
My guess is that they were afraid of adding only specific skills to the set because they wanted it to be versatile, but in trying to make it versatile, they killed it's versatility. The irony almost hurts.
There should be no whining. Barbs will still do more damage than M6 DHs.
The highest clear before was 70, the highest clear by M6 DHs was I believe 61 without Sever. A 9 level difference means mobs on 70 have 4x health as they do on 61. So, barbs were putting out 4x the effective dps as M6 Dhs.
A nerf to 100% instead of 500%, reduces barb's damage by 1/3 (100% is a 2x multiplier, 500% is 6x multiplier). Therefor, they will still put out more damage than M6.
The problem with this math, and the math that someone posted prior to the actual tuning (not really a nerf since it's a PTR), is that it's all based on a couple of outlier builds. There were a lot of things wrong with IK before the tuning pass, but the solution (assuming the goal is skill/build diversity) wasn't to tune based on outlier builds.
The builds that were over-performing the most were builds that used WW and FC. One of those skills has it's own set in the making, the other already has a set built around it. For FC, the builds are just a slight variation of existing builds. Since they tuned the set completely based on those builds (instead of narrowing the skills that benefit and fixing some bugs) the only truly viable builds are... ones that already existed. HotA and SS builds, or any other possible new build got thrashed because of the synergy 500% had with a few specific skills (FC, WW, WoTB-slaughter, BR-bloodshed).
The set itself probably needed a to be toned down anyway, even with those changes, but it was certainly not -400%. This means that the same heavy AOE, almost laughable STD builds are still the only way to play barbs. The issue is that with these changes, IK doesn't offer any varied gameplay from previous iterations of the barbarian.
My guess is that they were afraid of adding only specific skills to the set because they wanted it to be versatile, but in trying to make it versatile, they killed it's versatility. The irony almost hurts.
GR70 was done with SS build, not sure what you're on to.
Prior to the nerf, the highest solo completion was 62 I believe by mannercookie. He did 53 with time to spare and believes he can do up to 56. If he does that, that's only a drop of 6 levels which is along the lines of what I predicted in my initial post. 55 to 56 is still higher than any other current class.
This is an overnerf. I believe they did that just for testing purposes and they will buff it again at some point to around 200-250%.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Fordragon-2878/hero/9763301
There should be no whining. Barbs will still do more damage than M6 DHs.
The highest clear before was 70, the highest clear by M6 DHs was I believe 61 without Sever. A 9 level difference means mobs on 70 have 4x health as they do on 61. So, barbs were putting out 4x the effective dps as M6 Dhs.
A nerf to 100% instead of 500%, reduces barb's damage by 1/3 (100% is a 2x multiplier, 500% is 6x multiplier). Therefor, they will still put out more damage than M6.
to the ground. 500 was definitely too much but 100 makes invoker and ik similar sets. i cant stand another half of a year raekoring lvl40 grift to find last piece of my ancient gear = weapon. will prob quit for some time or reroll
sure. gr 48 7 mins and rift guardian around 15 min. before nerf. non ancient bulkatos set ramaladned.
common raekor+ random ancient 2hander will perform nearly same
pretty boring change really granted it was absurdly op before now its just going to be another "ok" set raekor was only good cause it was the only option pre patch(how you like those bad Rift guardians though?) would have been nice for a set that i didnt have to get an energy drink to stay awake to kill the rift guardian with to be really strong
I wish they would have just fixed some of the many bugs that were making it over perform first, and then saw where it was. While it can certainly still compete with other classes/sets, it's with yet another great at AOE sucks at STD build. My hope was that they would find a way to make IK a good STD/moderate AOE set, and allow for multiple different builds to be effective-ish (I really want HotA and SS to be viable).
Instead, it doesn't really give a much different feel than Reakor, at least to me. I hope they re-revise the set. It certainly was way to powerful in the last iteration, but I feel like they could have brought it inline with other sets without ruining the viability of some of those other skills.
Man this nerf really, really hurt. 500% might have been too much, with a non ancient GoJ and non optimized gear, I was able to HoTA smash for about 34B a minute single target, and it felt awesome.
What I don't understand though is why almost every other class gets a huge 400-500% damage buff from THEIR sets. With IK at 500%, I was able to get 225m crits with hota. That's less than my bell crits from my Season 2 monk. Now it's reduced to 75m crits. I get that with WW and ancients the IK made them super OP, but instead of finding a way to nerf those a bit, hota and SS are seemingly useless again.
I was excited to actually play a non WW barb, since I grinded to paragon 100 with one back in vanilla. But as it stands, and unless I'm dead wrong, WW is going to be the clear winner by a mile now. Maybe I'll just roll a sader in S3.
I think the reason why they nerfed the IK so much is because the developer love the Raekor too much. Continue bulldozing.......
For those whining and not looking at the numbers I posted, I guarantee you 2 IK barbs, WD, Sader will still be able to clear at least 63 with this nerf. Which is still better than any current DH M6 group, without sever.
Cool, so you're saying barbs are about even with the DH's on LIVE.
Too bad, DHs are also getting a buff.
The problem with this math, and the math that someone posted prior to the actual tuning (not really a nerf since it's a PTR), is that it's all based on a couple of outlier builds. There were a lot of things wrong with IK before the tuning pass, but the solution (assuming the goal is skill/build diversity) wasn't to tune based on outlier builds.
The builds that were over-performing the most were builds that used WW and FC. One of those skills has it's own set in the making, the other already has a set built around it. For FC, the builds are just a slight variation of existing builds. Since they tuned the set completely based on those builds (instead of narrowing the skills that benefit and fixing some bugs) the only truly viable builds are... ones that already existed. HotA and SS builds, or any other possible new build got thrashed because of the synergy 500% had with a few specific skills (FC, WW, WoTB-slaughter, BR-bloodshed).
The set itself probably needed a to be toned down anyway, even with those changes, but it was certainly not -400%. This means that the same heavy AOE, almost laughable STD builds are still the only way to play barbs. The issue is that with these changes, IK doesn't offer any varied gameplay from previous iterations of the barbarian.
My guess is that they were afraid of adding only specific skills to the set because they wanted it to be versatile, but in trying to make it versatile, they killed it's versatility. The irony almost hurts.
GR70 was done with SS build, not sure what you're on to.
Prior to the nerf, the highest solo completion was 62 I believe by mannercookie. He did 53 with time to spare and believes he can do up to 56. If he does that, that's only a drop of 6 levels which is along the lines of what I predicted in my initial post. 55 to 56 is still higher than any other current class.