And for the record, any assumptions are looked down upon in the ACADEMIC FIELD. You can do nothing but claim ignorance as Proletaria pointed out. To assume anything is a miscalculation.
But, as I pointed out, it is evident that there are negative events in the world around us and therefor no omniscient being could exist that is also omnibenevolent and vice versa.
In other words, logically, there's no way around the absolute necessity that if we suppose any god, it must be either carpricious, evil, apathetic, or simply unable to affect the universe in a way that could be described as omnicient (and that really calls into question the very definition of the word).
That's like creating the problem of whether or not god can create a rock he cannot break.
I'm sure that if there is such a being, it will not adhere to the restrictions of logic.
If there was something that lives for eternity, I doubt that language could even come close to understanding such a being. Omni anything pretty much begins to defy logic.
But in specific regards to omnibenevolence I doubt such a being exists.
I would think that if it was a "being" and it lived outside the realm of time, outside the realm of life and death, so too would it live outside of good and evil.
And considering good and evil is completely relative to the person defining it, I don't see how omnibenevolence could have a set definition with clear lines defining good from bad.
That's just not malarky either. Ask an old time religious person what the state of America is. Then ask a patriot. One will tell you that America is the most free, good country there is. the old religious guy or gal will probably tell you that America is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah .
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
But in specific regards to omnibenevolence I doubt such a being exists.
I would think that if it was a "being" and it lived outside the realm of time, outside the realm of life and death, so too would it live outside of good and evil.
And considering good and evil is completely relative to the person defining it, I don't see how omnibenevolence could have a set definition with clear lines defining good from bad.
Right, we must define that which is good and bad to tell the two apart, but we also came up with the idea of omnibenevolence. If we are to suppose a god outside the very scope of our description, then we aren't saying anything about it, except that it is absent out universe entirely (and, consequently, might as well not be there for all we know). All i'm suggesting is that, if such a thing were in any way connected to the universe, it would be able to be described subjectively, if it were evident, and thus it would be "bad," (or capricious or apathetic) to a lot of people.
Broadly speaking, it's far easier to argue for a huckster god. I should think that more deist types would conclude that.
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I played Jesus in Black Ops the other day. Bastard lagged so bad that it took him 3 days to respawn. Oh well...
Anyways... Unless there is a literal proof of suspensions of the natural world (aka religious beliefs), there are only possibilities. I have said this three times and I will say it again, you CANNOT prove that your God exists, and that is the unfortunate reality for religion. You are wrong until you are right
You cannot PROVE anything. I doubt any of us are aware of reality. Whether you are right or wrong does not matter. There is no spoon.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
You cannot PROVE anything. I doubt any of us are aware of reality. Whether you are right or wrong does not matter. There is no spoon.
However we all live in the natural world. What you are talking about is a complete other issue. Just because we cannot prove that we all see the world like the other man or that the world is just a matrix doesn't make the validity of Gods any different.
I never said it did. And those concepts are not about proving anything. They are about understanding.
To feel that you have knowledge of one thing over another is false. To prove anything as fact is just as difficult as proving the existence of god. This is primarily due to the scope of words like fact and truth by their very definition and accepting their implications in the fullest extent.
This is why I believe language to be flawed. I think one day we will advance in our means to communicate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I played Jesus in Black Ops the other day. Bastard lagged so bad that it took him 3 days to respawn. Oh well...
Anyways... Unless there is a literal proof of suspensions of the natural world (aka religious beliefs), there are only possibilities. I have said this three times and I will say it again, you CANNOT prove that your God exists, and that is the unfortunate reality for religion. You are wrong until you are right
Thank you!
-Jesus "Snoop Dogg" Christ
I think the biggest problem is that we cannot, as of yet, prove that there is no god, either. (There is absolutely no Biblical god, that's a fact. I'm talking of a deistic god.)
We can only say that we are 99% certain there is no god. That's the best we can do for now.
on the subject of "there is no god" or "there cant possibly be a god" type of thing i have to ask the question. where we came from? the big bang theory? (horrible show) aliens made us?
to the human mind something cant come from nothing. so in our mind something HAD to make us/form us or something to that nature for us to exist.
but then again, what if something CAN come from nothing but our human minds cant understand that?
i believe in a god-like being that created us, i just believe all of the "bibles" of the world are false and just making shit up and saying its truth.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
on the subject of "there is no god" or "there cant possibly be a god" type of thing
Those are silly assumptions. At present, we can neither confirm nor plausibly deny a completely banal deist sort of god (like the one you described). What we can deny are the demonstrably false theist gods we've been presented with.
on the subject of "there is no god" or "there cant possibly be a god" type of thing
Those are silly assumptions. At present, we can neither confirm nor plausibly deny a completely banal deist sort of god (like the one you described). What we can deny are the demonstrably false theist gods we've been presented with.
im not talking about what we can or cant deny or prove. thats obvious. but what do YOU believe as far as how we came to exist?
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
im not talking about what we can or cant deny or prove. thats obvious. but what do YOU believe as far as how we came to exist?
I don't believe I know anything about that. I have theories which have some scientific merit and various degrees of certiainty about how accurate those might be in telling SOME of that story, but i'm not absolutely sure of anything in that genre of knowledge. Fortunately, I don't HAVE to believe or pretend to know anything about that point in history to get along.
As far as i'm concerned, it's a fauxpa to answer that as a rationalist. All I can do logically is continue to seek information regarding how the universe works, in an empirical and verfiable manner, and let that data guide me to a better explanation.
im not talking about what we can or cant deny or prove. thats obvious. but what do YOU believe as far as how we came to exist?
I don't believe I know anything about that. I have theories which have some scientific merit and various degrees of certiainty about how accurate those might be in telling SOME of that story, but i'm not absolutely sure of anything in that genre of knowledge. Fortunately, I don't HAVE to believe or pretend to know anything about that point in history to get along.
As far as i'm concerned, it's a fauxpa to answer that as a rationalist. All I can do logically is continue to seek information regarding how the universe works, in an empirical and verfiable manner, and let that data guide me to a better explanation.
seriously pro? you should run for president. your beating around the bush skills are unparalleled. just say what you THINK, obviously anyones theory is unprovable. but your not even saying what you think made us.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
seriously pro? you should run for president. your beating around the bush skills are unparalleled. just say what you THINK, obviously anyones theory is unprovable. but your not even saying what you think made us.
What of that was beating around the bush? Can you not concieve of a human being who doesn't make up fairy-tale stories for every bothersome question he cannot readily answer? I love science fiction writing about as much as the next guy, but as far as my life is concerned i'm not going to go all Gene Roddenberry just to pretend that I have some kind of knowledge that I don't.
As far as what theories I have varying degrees of certainty in: the Big Bang theory, Quantum Relativity Theory, etc. all currently appear to be relevent pieces of the puzzle, given the ammount of supporting data that has come to light in recent decades.
As far as what theories I have varying degrees of certainty in: the Big Bang theory, Quantum Relativity Theory, etc. all currently appear to be relevent pieces of the puzzle, given the ammount of supporting data that has come to light in recent decades.
was what i was looking for. lolol
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
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But, as I pointed out, it is evident that there are negative events in the world around us and therefor no omniscient being could exist that is also omnibenevolent and vice versa.
In other words, logically, there's no way around the absolute necessity that if we suppose any god, it must be either carpricious, evil, apathetic, or simply unable to affect the universe in a way that could be described as omnicient (and that really calls into question the very definition of the word).
I'm sure that if there is such a being, it will not adhere to the restrictions of logic.
If there was something that lives for eternity, I doubt that language could even come close to understanding such a being. Omni anything pretty much begins to defy logic.
But in specific regards to omnibenevolence I doubt such a being exists.
I would think that if it was a "being" and it lived outside the realm of time, outside the realm of life and death, so too would it live outside of good and evil.
And considering good and evil is completely relative to the person defining it, I don't see how omnibenevolence could have a set definition with clear lines defining good from bad.
That's just not malarky either. Ask an old time religious person what the state of America is. Then ask a patriot. One will tell you that America is the most free, good country there is. the old religious guy or gal will probably tell you that America is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah .
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Right, we must define that which is good and bad to tell the two apart, but we also came up with the idea of omnibenevolence. If we are to suppose a god outside the very scope of our description, then we aren't saying anything about it, except that it is absent out universe entirely (and, consequently, might as well not be there for all we know). All i'm suggesting is that, if such a thing were in any way connected to the universe, it would be able to be described subjectively, if it were evident, and thus it would be "bad," (or capricious or apathetic) to a lot of people.
Broadly speaking, it's far easier to argue for a huckster god. I should think that more deist types would conclude that.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
...
...
I think I am religious now... o.o
PRAISE JESUS!!!
Lol...
He then rose on the release date of the third album.
Anyways... Unless there is a literal proof of suspensions of the natural world (aka religious beliefs), there are only possibilities. I have said this three times and I will say it again, you CANNOT prove that your God exists, and that is the unfortunate reality for religion. You are wrong until you are right
Thank you!
-Jesus "Snoop Dogg" Christ
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
However we all live in the natural world. What you are talking about is a complete other issue. Just because we cannot prove that we all see the world like the other man or that the world is just a matrix doesn't make the validity of Gods any different.
To feel that you have knowledge of one thing over another is false. To prove anything as fact is just as difficult as proving the existence of god. This is primarily due to the scope of words like fact and truth by their very definition and accepting their implications in the fullest extent.
This is why I believe language to be flawed. I think one day we will advance in our means to communicate.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I think the biggest problem is that we cannot, as of yet, prove that there is no god, either. (There is absolutely no Biblical god, that's a fact. I'm talking of a deistic god.)
We can only say that we are 99% certain there is no god. That's the best we can do for now.
to the human mind something cant come from nothing. so in our mind something HAD to make us/form us or something to that nature for us to exist.
but then again, what if something CAN come from nothing but our human minds cant understand that?
i believe in a god-like being that created us, i just believe all of the "bibles" of the world are false and just making shit up and saying its truth.
Those are silly assumptions. At present, we can neither confirm nor plausibly deny a completely banal deist sort of god (like the one you described). What we can deny are the demonstrably false theist gods we've been presented with.
im not talking about what we can or cant deny or prove. thats obvious. but what do YOU believe as far as how we came to exist?
I don't believe I know anything about that. I have theories which have some scientific merit and various degrees of certiainty about how accurate those might be in telling SOME of that story, but i'm not absolutely sure of anything in that genre of knowledge. Fortunately, I don't HAVE to believe or pretend to know anything about that point in history to get along.
As far as i'm concerned, it's a fauxpa to answer that as a rationalist. All I can do logically is continue to seek information regarding how the universe works, in an empirical and verfiable manner, and let that data guide me to a better explanation.
seriously pro? you should run for president. your beating around the bush skills are unparalleled. just say what you THINK, obviously anyones theory is unprovable. but your not even saying what you think made us.
What of that was beating around the bush? Can you not concieve of a human being who doesn't make up fairy-tale stories for every bothersome question he cannot readily answer? I love science fiction writing about as much as the next guy, but as far as my life is concerned i'm not going to go all Gene Roddenberry just to pretend that I have some kind of knowledge that I don't.
As far as what theories I have varying degrees of certainty in: the Big Bang theory, Quantum Relativity Theory, etc. all currently appear to be relevent pieces of the puzzle, given the ammount of supporting data that has come to light in recent decades.
was what i was looking for. lolol