They listen to feedback! What kind of company dosent listen to its fans?
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Please list specific examples. It will make me feel better if I can actually see some evidence that they are listening.
There is no evidence that they are listening because they are not. And so as long as it stays that way there's a chance that Blizzard remains number one. They rightfully do not consider every single idea or complaint. If they did, they would change only every single thing that they have done so far as people have complained about pretty much EVERYTHING. They are not trying to please a minority or even the majority - they are trying to make a great game. Games ARE developed in-house, not by fans...
However, they are aware of those complaints. Every company in the business gets those. Its just how they choose to respond. Blizzard has been generous enough to respond to them on numerous occasions. The T-shirts are enough of a proof that they acknowledge both sides of the feedback. Its just that they are can't take comments seriously when they come from people who:
1. Hate WoW. (because they have questionable judgement. if you think WoW is a bad game then you obviously can't tell what makes a good game and what doesn't)
2. Compare D3 with WoW and imagine similarities between the two.
And pretty much every 'concerned' fan that finds time to open one complaint thread a day on a forum belongs in either of the two groups.
The T-Shirts were pretty light-hearted. Why do some people think they were offensive? They take it as though Blizzard is trolling through the forums and picking out particular people to insult. There is a difference between listening to feedback from the community and accepting every idea everyone throws out. If Blizzard implemented half of the stuff most of the people here lazily slop down onto the forums D3 would be an absolutely horrendous game. If you seriously think that Blizzard is being offensive against YOU, or childish because they made up some T-Shirts that were pretty funny, then you should check your own ego before it completely consumes any rationality that may be left in your head.
There is no evidence that they are listening because they are not. And so as long as it stays that way there's a chance that Blizzard remains number one. They rightfully do not consider every single idea or complaint. If they did, they would change only every single thing that they have done so far as people have complained about pretty much EVERYTHING. They are not trying to please a minority or even the majority - they are trying to make a great game. Games ARE developed in-house, not by fans...
Ok, first of all you have a problem.
They DO listen to their fans and incorporate ideas into their own way.. and then put them into the game... *wait for it*... if it works out to their liking.
There is no evidence because they take our ideas and build onto them and claim it as their own..
That's what most companies do.
Quote from "DesmondTiny" »
They listen to feedback! What kind of company dosent listen to its fans?
Ones that know what they're doing.
Which I think Blizzard does, but if anyone is even reading my damn posts they would know that.
So further argument is stupid.
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
Just a matter of optimization. I don't see a reason why they would disappear in 5 seconds if they for example, stayed for minutes in WoW, for any other reason than resource optimization. Sooner or later they will optimize it in one way or another. Probably as they approach the release date they will make a final effort.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
More importantly, Jay said that they have gone back and added more grit to the earlier places.
That was completely unrelated to the fan feedback. He said they always go back several times and add detail once they feel satisfied with the general layout of that area. Something like that was even hinted in an interview during WWI. It was also mentioned later in response to the complaints.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
Also, WoW may be a very popular game, so of course there are things they can take from WoW, but on a limited number of subjects.
I'm not discussing whether WoW is a popular game or whether certain features of that game should or should not ever be considered for Diablo. I am only saying, that if someone says WoW is a bad game, his judgement is questionable. Quality of a game goes beyond taste. If you don't like something doesn't make it bad. But saying something like that does ruin your credibility, as of all things, WoW certainly is not a bad game.
The fact they even have knowledge of what the complaints are will affect their judgement in some way or another. Sometimes they will briefly think it over and realize why they went the way they did or it will make them ask why they did something or why they didn't do something. They will always put it in the perspective of their own vision though. So arguing against major goals that they have will the game won't fly, but suggesting some details might fit into their grand scheme and they could incorporate those.
Dimebog says: "People who hate WoW because of no reason imagine similarities between the two games. So their points are invalid." My response: Its totally obvious that they are taking certain things from WoW. The question is how good or bad that is. They make take things from some subjects that can be applied to any game regardless of style, genre etc. but no more. Im not saying they take wrong things, but i just want to point out the fact that people who say "This is D3 not WoW2!" may have a good point.
Not 'people who hate WoW'. People who claim it's a bad game. For example: you can hate WoW because your allowance can't cover the monthly fee; it doesn't make it a bad game. If you say that WoW sucks, you most likely have a very distorted view of good and bad game design. Blizzard doesn't think WoW is a bad game - see the conflict of interests here? It's completely unrelated to hating WoW or seeing imaginary or even factual connections between D3 and WoW if any.
Summa summarum: if someone states an opinion which on any level implies that WoW is a bad game, the opinion can be automatically discredited on the basis that it came from someone who isn't qualified/able to make good design decisions and tell them apart from bad ones.
Its not like if they change some things so a part of the petitioners like it, anyone who liked it before will hate it.
If they decided to put back one-sided hostility, potion spamming, inventory tetris, I would start hatting it. I've seen a change for the better, and then if suddenly they revert it just because of a couple of bitchy so called 'fans' who enjoyed D2 plainly because of how easily you can troll in it and happen to know how to use forums - that would kind of piss me off and make me loose my trust and loyalty to Blizzard.
More importantly, Jay said that they have gone back and added more grit to the earlier places.
Thank you Kenzai for staying on topic. Was this actually a critique from fans? That sounds like it could have more easily been a critique from the blizzard in-house testers, where all their other changes have come from.
Its just that they are can't take comments seriously when they come from people who:
1. Hate WoW. (because they have questionable judgement. if you think WoW is a bad game then you obviously can't tell what makes a good game and what doesn't)
2. Compare D3 with WoW and imagine similarities between the two.
Just because you love WoW the abomination doesn't mean that everyone who hates it is an idiot. That's your own foolish opinion, characteristically stated with greatly unwarranted self-importance and extreme condescension. My opinions about diablo 3 aren't valid because I don't like WoW? Looks like you're running out of steam.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Just because you love WoW the abomination doesn't mean that everyone who hates it is an idiot. That's your own foolish opinion, characteristically stated with greatly unwarranted self-importance and extreme condescension. My opinions about diablo 3 aren't valid because I don't like WoW? Looks like you're running out of steam.
You can hate it or like it as much as you want, you can't claim it's a bad game. L2R. Its what's been discussed in the last ten posts or so. Do I have to draw it for everyone? If you hate it - that is your problem. If you say the game sucks - it means you lack judgment.
It's not that everyone who hates it is an idiot either. Just those who hate it to the extent where they believe they should let others know about it continuously. As if it makes their frustrations go away. But that's another thing. If you say it is a BAD GAME - then yes, you are an idiot.
I understand your "argument" completely. Let me lay it out for you. You say that
Quote from "Dimebog »
[FONT=Tahoma]Quality of a game goes beyond taste.[/FONT']
[FONT=Tahoma]ie: The fact that World of Warcraft is a good game is a universal truth and is beyond dispute. The fact that you have come to this conclusion and taken it as a universal truth is entirely expected. I submit to you that WoW is a bad game, that this is a universal truth, and that anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. This sort of utterly ridiculous argument can go both ways. Also,[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma]
Quote from "Dimebog »
O[FONT=Tahoma]pinions don't make things bad or good. Nothing can be 'BAD IMO'.[/FONT']
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]You forget that the quality of a game depends on many factors. The process one uses to determine it is quite unlike that which determines why the color red appears red, when Hitler invaded Poland, or other facts. A game is good or bad depending on the observer, and it is ridiculous to call it exclusively one or the other.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]For example, I believe diablo 2 is the best game of all time. But, to someone else it may seem to be a bad game. It is a bad game to them. I may believe that they're an idiot worthy of attack, but I cannot categorically say that diablo 2 is the best game of all time, and BECAUSE they don't like it, they are an idiot. Instead, I can ascertain if they are an idiot, and therefore whether their opinion is irrelevant.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]I don't expect you to understand this distinction, or any of this. This post is intended for anyone reading this thread who you have attempted to mislead.[/FONT][/FONT]
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I don't expect you to understand this distinction, or any of this. This post is intended for anyone reading this thread who you have attempted to mislead.
So I am not intelligent enough to understand your post, but people I have 'mislead' are? Good reasoning right there.
Ok, you guys are getting out of control with the ridiculous WoW discussions. Whether you like it or not, WoW is a major factor in the game industry, and your opinions on if its a good or bad game are simply not necessary here. The playerbase of WoW must speak for itself considering people pay to play it.
The topic of the title is asking if Blizzard responds to feedback, and not to explain why you may be pro or con WoW. Get back on topic.
My post is not a WoW bashing post, apologies if it appeared that way. It is intended to combat dimebog's point that anyone who thinks WoW is a bad game is an idiot.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
You can hate it or like it as much as you want, you can't claim it's a bad game. L2R. Its what's been discussed in the last ten posts or so. Do I have to draw it for everyone? If you hate it - that is your problem. If you say the game sucks - it means you lack judgment.
It's not that everyone who hates it is an idiot either. Just those who hate it to the extent where they believe they should let others know about it continuously. As if it makes their frustrations go away. But that's another thing. If you say it is a BAD GAME - then yes, you are an idiot.
When comparing it to the other top mmorpgs out there... actually, yes you can.
When comparing it to blizzard's normal caliber of game design and development, um... actually, yes you can.
If you discredit someone chiefly because your argument doesnt match theirs... they aren't the one who's the idiot.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
However, they are aware of those complaints. Every company in the business gets those. Its just how they choose to respond. Blizzard has been generous enough to respond to them on numerous occasions. The T-shirts are enough of a proof that they acknowledge both sides of the feedback. Its just that they are can't take comments seriously when they come from people who:
1. Hate WoW. (because they have questionable judgement. if you think WoW is a bad game then you obviously can't tell what makes a good game and what doesn't)
2. Compare D3 with WoW and imagine similarities between the two.
And pretty much every 'concerned' fan that finds time to open one complaint thread a day on a forum belongs in either of the two groups.
Ok, first of all you have a problem.
They DO listen to their fans and incorporate ideas into their own way.. and then put them into the game... *wait for it*... if it works out to their liking.
There is no evidence because they take our ideas and build onto them and claim it as their own..
That's what most companies do.
Ones that know what they're doing.
Which I think Blizzard does, but if anyone is even reading my damn posts they would know that.
So further argument is stupid.
That was completely unrelated to the fan feedback. He said they always go back several times and add detail once they feel satisfied with the general layout of that area. Something like that was even hinted in an interview during WWI. It was also mentioned later in response to the complaints.
I'm not discussing whether WoW is a popular game or whether certain features of that game should or should not ever be considered for Diablo. I am only saying, that if someone says WoW is a bad game, his judgement is questionable. Quality of a game goes beyond taste. If you don't like something doesn't make it bad. But saying something like that does ruin your credibility, as of all things, WoW certainly is not a bad game.
Summa summarum: if someone states an opinion which on any level implies that WoW is a bad game, the opinion can be automatically discredited on the basis that it came from someone who isn't qualified/able to make good design decisions and tell them apart from bad ones.
This basically answers the OP's question
/thread
Mage tables in wow came about as a suggestion made from a fan.
Thank you Kenzai for staying on topic. Was this actually a critique from fans? That sounds like it could have more easily been a critique from the blizzard in-house testers, where all their other changes have come from.
Just because you love WoW the abomination doesn't mean that everyone who hates it is an idiot. That's your own foolish opinion, characteristically stated with greatly unwarranted self-importance and extreme condescension. My opinions about diablo 3 aren't valid because I don't like WoW? Looks like you're running out of steam.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
It's not that everyone who hates it is an idiot either. Just those who hate it to the extent where they believe they should let others know about it continuously. As if it makes their frustrations go away. But that's another thing. If you say it is a BAD GAME - then yes, you are an idiot.
I understand your "argument" completely. Let me lay it out for you. You say that
[FONT=Tahoma]ie: The fact that World of Warcraft is a good game is a universal truth and is beyond dispute. The fact that you have come to this conclusion and taken it as a universal truth is entirely expected. I submit to you that WoW is a bad game, that this is a universal truth, and that anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. This sort of utterly ridiculous argument can go both ways. Also,[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]You forget that the quality of a game depends on many factors. The process one uses to determine it is quite unlike that which determines why the color red appears red, when Hitler invaded Poland, or other facts. A game is good or bad depending on the observer, and it is ridiculous to call it exclusively one or the other.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]For example, I believe diablo 2 is the best game of all time. But, to someone else it may seem to be a bad game. It is a bad game to them. I may believe that they're an idiot worthy of attack, but I cannot categorically say that diablo 2 is the best game of all time, and BECAUSE they don't like it, they are an idiot. Instead, I can ascertain if they are an idiot, and therefore whether their opinion is irrelevant.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]I don't expect you to understand this distinction, or any of this. This post is intended for anyone reading this thread who you have attempted to mislead.[/FONT][/FONT]
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
My post is not a WoW bashing post, apologies if it appeared that way. It is intended to combat dimebog's point that anyone who thinks WoW is a bad game is an idiot.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
When comparing it to the other top mmorpgs out there... actually, yes you can.
When comparing it to blizzard's normal caliber of game design and development, um... actually, yes you can.
If you discredit someone chiefly because your argument doesnt match theirs... they aren't the one who's the idiot.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
They may not listen to every little thing we suggest but overall they've provided us with some fun games that a good amount of people enjoy.