I'm saying the only time someone should give someone a negative rating is if they are flaming, trolling, or just being an idiot and their post is just garbage.
You haven't done any of that in this thread tho. so I don't see why anyone would give you negative post rating..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
Ok, I understand now that you aren't talking about me. What I don't understand is..
Quote from "3CXOD" »
I'm saying the only time someone should give someone a negative rating is if they are flaming, trolling, or just being an idiot and their post is just garbage.
You haven't done any of that in this thread tho. so I don't see why anyone would give you negative post rating..
That's pointless, too, with inflation.
If you want to save your money, buy something that won't lose its price.
This is a long post, but important and worth the read.
Inflation is a symptom of the problem
Not really but yes you have to put your money in something that won't lose value, you have to understand what our dollar is now that we left the gold standard. Up until that time our dollar had intrinsic value, for years dollars could be redeemed for gold or silver. Slowly that was taken away and then in 1971 the US basically admitted to bankruptcy with the Vietnam war when Nixon severed us from the gold standard. For the last 38 years we have been on a free floating fiat (meaning let it be done) currency system and all the world at the stroke of a pen became fiat currency with us.
It is in no small way part of the reason we are in the trouble we are in today. The very definition of monetary inflation is the printing of money without backing look at this chart, it is straight off the US Federal Reserves web site and notice our monetary base was held in check by gold until shortly after 1971 when we left it.
Bernanke and Krugman can sit there an tell us all they want that they can reign in surplus liquidity but 30 years does not lie. We are in trouble. You hear economists and investors often put things in terms of real dollars, why? Well because our dollar today is not real, it ceased to be real money in 1971. I'm not pumping gold I'm pumping the function gold performed.
1. Unit of account.
2. Medium of exchange.
3. Store of value
4. Unit of deferred payment.
The function of gold
We have lost number 3 in that list; you can use fluffy pink bunnies for all I care if it can return an honest store of value to our money. All the central banks list gold as a reserve asset and so they still realize its value as money. Gold was used because it was hard to get out of the ground and therefore rare, it was easy to reduce into equal measurable quantities, it was noncorrosive and stood the test of time, and most important it was difficult to debase. Paper on the other hand is worst tool because all of things are not true except the easy to reproduce part. And so we have watched our wealth robbed from us under our very noses by the debasing of paper, the lines of value and price have become completely blurred.
What is a dollar worth?
The only way to know what something is worth now is to compare the prices between different asset classes. For example when the Dow was at its peak of 14,000 in 2007 it looked like an all time high in terms of dollars but only in terms of dollars! If you took one share of the Dow and compared it against other asset classes you could see it had fallen in terms of value.
Since 1999 the Dow has been crashing when compared against the other asset classes such as Oil, industrial metals, agricultures, precious metals, commodities, virtually every other asset class. Take oil in 1999 you could sell one share of the Dow and buy 800 barrels of oil, the Dow has fallen almost 90% measured against oil since then, before the recent free fall you could sell one share and buy roughly 100 barrels of oil. The dollar itself is a debt to the US tax payer we pay interest on, only 38 years ago the dollar had intrinsic value under the gold standard.
The dollar is debt, literally and the fox is guarding the hen house
Today our dollar is debt to the people and savers are punished for saving. When the FED raises or lowers interest rates many people don't even know it is the rate the FED lends banks money with interest. In other words our very dollar is a debt to the FED. The FED is an unconstitutional private company (its largest stake holder is JP Morgan Chase), it has never been audited, it is tax exempt, and answers to no one. And who is guarding the hen house? Why Timothy Geithner former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and today our entrusted 75th United States Secretary of the Treasury. The fox is guarding the hen house!
In 1863 (until 1934) the first US Currency was issued, the Gold certificate and it read This certifies that there have been deposited in the Treasury of the United States ten dollars in gold payable to the bearer on demand. Silver Certificates had a similar inscription and were in circulation until 1963. Then along came the Federal Reserve Note under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury, or at any Federal Reserve Bank. the dollar was now intrinsically worthless.
Savers are losers
Why the hell should we as people pay interest on our very money? If I stack away a dollar today it should damn well be worth a dollar tomorrow!
That is why saving rates are low and why banks punish you for saving because they are paying interest on dollars not put to work, your saving account literally ends up in the banks liabilities column! If the dollar today isn't moving it's losing. To create a dollar they simply convert treasuries and print dollars, voila there is a dollar like elf'n magic. What is it backed by, the peoples faith in our government to conduct our affairs responsibly. How do you quantify that? You can't but it's safe to say the world is losing faith in the US today.
If this shoe drops we are in deep shit, China doesn't need to sell its dollars to screw us, they just need to stop buying them and there goes our deficit spending, kiss the infrastructure investment and recovery act goodbye. It is arrogant to think we have China over a barrel and they are stuck, give a person long enough and they will figure a way out of a mess. We should be assuming that is exactly what they are doing, and the two top links are wakeup calls. There have been over 3800 fiat currencies though out history and all have failed. With a winning tack record of 3800+ losses 0 wins, the prospects of the dollar surviving this time around is also zero. In the US alone we saw the Continental fail, and the US Greenback dollar fail. The Federal Reserve note will too it's just a matter of time.
Wow, that's quite a bit Vegas. I do agree; China will sort its own shit out, leaving America to handle its own. That is the point you were making right?
Partly the point, it's also showing exactly how we have been slowly screwed for the last 38 years and what needs to happen to stop it. Obama's good intentions I believe in, but I'm not sure he understands this. I wish he was getting advice from people like Peter Schiff, Robert Kiyosaki, Jim Rogers, and Marc Faber as well as the Keynesian economists. They make me nervous, they never explain where the money is going to come from, it's almost like they don't care. They know we are borrowing it and they just don't seem too concerned.
In response to the original post:
From what I understand, Obama acknowledges the importance of science more than Bush did. This alone makes him not bad, in my opinion.
In response to the original post:
From what I understand, Obama acknowledges the importance of science more than Bush did. This alone makes him not bad, in my opinion.
Yes, he seems to consider more things when looking at the big picture; he's going to reassess stem cells, becuase not all are bad.
It's a consequence of the current structure of the economy that you just have to accept. Calling our economy a "problem" is like calling capitalism one. It's not going to go away or disappear. It is there to stay. Just as the national media numbness.
And I am not sure why you quoted me with that humongous long post. I don't really want to talk about US and China.
Calling our economy a "problem" is like calling capitalism one.
But capitalism is a problem now, wouldn't you agree? I mean, a part of this recession is the materialism people have come across. I would not call our economy a problem, but nearly every aspect of it is. Too many toxicities make its products liabilities.
It's a consequence of the current structure of the economy that you just have to accept. Calling our economy a "problem" is like calling capitalism one. It's not going to go away or disappear. It is there to stay. Just as the national media numbness.
And I am not sure why you quoted me with that humongous long post. I don't really want to talk about US and China.
It's a passionate topic for me I know much about. I accept the dollar will eventually will fail, as have all debased economies throughout history. This scenario has played out again and again over time. The reasons are often different, the result is always the same.
I'm not blaming capitalism, I'm pro capitalism! I believe the banks should have been allowed to fail and that a correction should be allowed to correct. Today we can't properly valuate many investments because of Zombie banks and all their undead toxic assets. No investor will touch the banks with a 10 foot pole because of this. You should want to talk about China because they are funding our deficit spending, all this stimulus we hoping will pull us out of our fiscal mess is coming largely from China. A lot of people are dangerously ignoring the risk of them pulling the plug or us defaulting on our obligations.
It is a dollar crisis and a foreign debt crisis, a result of living beyond our means for most of 38 years and Reagan did much to get the ball of debt rolling. I'm saying Obama has people on board who helped create the mess, as did Bush 43, Clinton, and Bush 41 etc. Both parties are at fault. Yes the economic crisis is not going away soon, this is why I wrote a long winded post, because if people want to come out of this then understanding the problem is paramount. Obama will not fix it, he can't. It's global because everyone pinned their currency to the dollar, the only reason the dollar has done well is because people are panicking and fleeing to the default currency, not because of any strength the dollar has, because they don't know where else to go. That isn't going to last.
So what can you do, make sure you place your money in things that will hold value where the fundamentals have not been impaired should the worst be realized. Well I mentioned who I am listening to: Peter Schiff, Robert Kiyosaki, Jim Rogers, and Marc Faber, that is a bread crumb trail any one concerned should at least investigate and see if what they are saying makes sense to you. BTW, what I am saying is basically what all these capitalists are saying, they are among my sources. I hope for the best but I plan for the worst, it's not hard to imagine the worst, we are pretty close to it now. A long winded post, yes I have been hammering about this topic for the last 3 years on other boards and was called a nut for saying a crash was coming based on what I was reading by Republicans back in 2006. Today I am called a pessimist by many Democrats for not getting on board with Obama's financial plan despite having voted for him for other reasons.
My message is simple, educate yourself on finance and money, the rules of money are changing, anyone clinging to old ideas is going to get wiped out. Read what I am saying, then do further research and decide if what I am saying is true. Don't take my word for it, check my sources and then compare it against those who believe the opposite. For 3 years I have been trying to wake people up on this topic, and I will as long as I can.
I agree Vegas, except on where you stand with capitalism. I feel it is something you should blame, for with it, America has bred a whole new kind of materialism. I'm kind of quoting my last message, but oh well. With this materialism we have achieved a kind of greed, and I think that played a huge role in the recession, especially how it has remained a recession for so long.
But capitalism is a problem now, wouldn't you agree? I mean, a part of this recession is the materialism people have come across. I would not call our economy a problem, but nearly every aspect of it is. Too many toxicities make its products liabilities.
No government intervention is the problem, don't get me wrong deregulation was not a good thing and that caused many of the issues today just leaving things up to those with self serving interests. Oversight at some level is required. But the government can't fix this, they didn't fix the great depression despite what some believe. WWII pulled us out of the Depression.
Bull and Bear market cycles are a natural part of business and trading just as supply and demand is. The problem was the government kept artificially inflating our economy when it needed to correct. A bear market is the medicine for a bull market that has run too high, the government has stopped the medicine each time. Eventually they won't be able to stop it, like now, the medicine is here whether they want it or not.
We should have crashed harder from the dot coms, but then 9/11 happened and Bush didn't want to lose face. He didn't want bin Laden to think he had hurt us and so allowed the FED to implement asinine fiscal policy that opned the door to reckless loans. The government repealed safeguards that prevented bad trading practices put in place after the crash of 1929 to prevent such crashes again.
The FED and the government are as much to blame as Wall Street is, Greenspan should be tarred and feathered. People don't understand that savvy investors knew decades ago this moment was coming. Read up on Nikolai Kondratieff, very interesting, look at the date for the current winter cycle.
The Crash Course - The best 3 hour presentation you can watch for the next 20 years, it talks about the 3 E's energy, economy, and environment. I can't urge people strongly enough to watch it all, if you aren't blown away by what this scientist says, I'll eat my hat. http://www.chrismartenson.com/
I'm saying the only time someone should give someone a negative rating is if they are flaming, trolling, or just being an idiot and their post is just garbage.
You haven't done any of that in this thread tho. so I don't see why anyone would give you negative post rating..
How did this enter the conversation?
This is what I was referring to.
This is a long post, but important and worth the read.
Inflation is a symptom of the problem
Not really but yes you have to put your money in something that won't lose value, you have to understand what our dollar is now that we left the gold standard. Up until that time our dollar had intrinsic value, for years dollars could be redeemed for gold or silver. Slowly that was taken away and then in 1971 the US basically admitted to bankruptcy with the Vietnam war when Nixon severed us from the gold standard. For the last 38 years we have been on a free floating fiat (meaning let it be done) currency system and all the world at the stroke of a pen became fiat currency with us.
It is in no small way part of the reason we are in the trouble we are in today. The very definition of monetary inflation is the printing of money without backing look at this chart, it is straight off the US Federal Reserves web site and notice our monetary base was held in check by gold until shortly after 1971 when we left it.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/fredgraph?s[1][id]=AMBNS
Bernanke and Krugman can sit there an tell us all they want that they can reign in surplus liquidity but 30 years does not lie. We are in trouble. You hear economists and investors often put things in terms of real dollars, why? Well because our dollar today is not real, it ceased to be real money in 1971. I'm not pumping gold I'm pumping the function gold performed.
The function of gold
We have lost number 3 in that list; you can use fluffy pink bunnies for all I care if it can return an honest store of value to our money. All the central banks list gold as a reserve asset and so they still realize its value as money. Gold was used because it was hard to get out of the ground and therefore rare, it was easy to reduce into equal measurable quantities, it was noncorrosive and stood the test of time, and most important it was difficult to debase. Paper on the other hand is worst tool because all of things are not true except the easy to reproduce part. And so we have watched our wealth robbed from us under our very noses by the debasing of paper, the lines of value and price have become completely blurred.
What is a dollar worth?
The only way to know what something is worth now is to compare the prices between different asset classes. For example when the Dow was at its peak of 14,000 in 2007 it looked like an all time high in terms of dollars but only in terms of dollars! If you took one share of the Dow and compared it against other asset classes you could see it had fallen in terms of value.
Since 1999 the Dow has been crashing when compared against the other asset classes such as Oil, industrial metals, agricultures, precious metals, commodities, virtually every other asset class. Take oil in 1999 you could sell one share of the Dow and buy 800 barrels of oil, the Dow has fallen almost 90% measured against oil since then, before the recent free fall you could sell one share and buy roughly 100 barrels of oil. The dollar itself is a debt to the US tax payer we pay interest on, only 38 years ago the dollar had intrinsic value under the gold standard.
The dollar is debt, literally and the fox is guarding the hen house
Today our dollar is debt to the people and savers are punished for saving. When the FED raises or lowers interest rates many people don't even know it is the rate the FED lends banks money with interest. In other words our very dollar is a debt to the FED. The FED is an unconstitutional private company (its largest stake holder is JP Morgan Chase), it has never been audited, it is tax exempt, and answers to no one. And who is guarding the hen house? Why Timothy Geithner former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and today our entrusted 75th United States Secretary of the Treasury. The fox is guarding the hen house!
In 1863 (until 1934) the first US Currency was issued, the Gold certificate and it read This certifies that there have been deposited in the Treasury of the United States ten dollars in gold payable to the bearer on demand. Silver Certificates had a similar inscription and were in circulation until 1963. Then along came the Federal Reserve Note under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private, and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury, or at any Federal Reserve Bank. the dollar was now intrinsically worthless.
Savers are losers That is why saving rates are low and why banks punish you for saving because they are paying interest on dollars not put to work, your saving account literally ends up in the banks liabilities column! If the dollar today isn't moving it's losing. To create a dollar they simply convert treasuries and print dollars, voila there is a dollar like elf'n magic. What is it backed by, the peoples faith in our government to conduct our affairs responsibly. How do you quantify that? You can't but it's safe to say the world is losing faith in the US today.
Look what China is considering on doing with its money.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/03/09/afx6140426.html
http://www.chinastakes.com/story.aspx?id=1030
And China who we are depending on to keep loaning us money is starting to get nervous
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aP7DPb6vb0Eo&refer=worldwide
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090313/D96T37FO0.html
If this shoe drops we are in deep shit, China doesn't need to sell its dollars to screw us, they just need to stop buying them and there goes our deficit spending, kiss the infrastructure investment and recovery act goodbye. It is arrogant to think we have China over a barrel and they are stuck, give a person long enough and they will figure a way out of a mess. We should be assuming that is exactly what they are doing, and the two top links are wakeup calls. There have been over 3800 fiat currencies though out history and all have failed. With a winning tack record of 3800+ losses 0 wins, the prospects of the dollar surviving this time around is also zero. In the US alone we saw the Continental fail, and the US Greenback dollar fail. The Federal Reserve note will too it's just a matter of time.
From what I understand, Obama acknowledges the importance of science more than Bush did. This alone makes him not bad, in my opinion.
Yes, he seems to consider more things when looking at the big picture; he's going to reassess stem cells, becuase not all are bad.
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
And I am not sure why you quoted me with that humongous long post. I don't really want to talk about US and China.
But capitalism is a problem now, wouldn't you agree? I mean, a part of this recession is the materialism people have come across. I would not call our economy a problem, but nearly every aspect of it is. Too many toxicities make its products liabilities.
It's a passionate topic for me I know much about. I accept the dollar will eventually will fail, as have all debased economies throughout history. This scenario has played out again and again over time. The reasons are often different, the result is always the same.
Look at this short and incomplete list of monetary carnage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation#Examples_of_hyperinflation
I'm not blaming capitalism, I'm pro capitalism! I believe the banks should have been allowed to fail and that a correction should be allowed to correct. Today we can't properly valuate many investments because of Zombie banks and all their undead toxic assets. No investor will touch the banks with a 10 foot pole because of this. You should want to talk about China because they are funding our deficit spending, all this stimulus we hoping will pull us out of our fiscal mess is coming largely from China. A lot of people are dangerously ignoring the risk of them pulling the plug or us defaulting on our obligations.
It is a dollar crisis and a foreign debt crisis, a result of living beyond our means for most of 38 years and Reagan did much to get the ball of debt rolling. I'm saying Obama has people on board who helped create the mess, as did Bush 43, Clinton, and Bush 41 etc. Both parties are at fault. Yes the economic crisis is not going away soon, this is why I wrote a long winded post, because if people want to come out of this then understanding the problem is paramount. Obama will not fix it, he can't. It's global because everyone pinned their currency to the dollar, the only reason the dollar has done well is because people are panicking and fleeing to the default currency, not because of any strength the dollar has, because they don't know where else to go. That isn't going to last.
So what can you do, make sure you place your money in things that will hold value where the fundamentals have not been impaired should the worst be realized. Well I mentioned who I am listening to: Peter Schiff, Robert Kiyosaki, Jim Rogers, and Marc Faber, that is a bread crumb trail any one concerned should at least investigate and see if what they are saying makes sense to you. BTW, what I am saying is basically what all these capitalists are saying, they are among my sources. I hope for the best but I plan for the worst, it's not hard to imagine the worst, we are pretty close to it now. A long winded post, yes I have been hammering about this topic for the last 3 years on other boards and was called a nut for saying a crash was coming based on what I was reading by Republicans back in 2006. Today I am called a pessimist by many Democrats for not getting on board with Obama's financial plan despite having voted for him for other reasons.
My message is simple, educate yourself on finance and money, the rules of money are changing, anyone clinging to old ideas is going to get wiped out. Read what I am saying, then do further research and decide if what I am saying is true. Don't take my word for it, check my sources and then compare it against those who believe the opposite. For 3 years I have been trying to wake people up on this topic, and I will as long as I can.
No government intervention is the problem, don't get me wrong deregulation was not a good thing and that caused many of the issues today just leaving things up to those with self serving interests. Oversight at some level is required. But the government can't fix this, they didn't fix the great depression despite what some believe. WWII pulled us out of the Depression.
Bull and Bear market cycles are a natural part of business and trading just as supply and demand is. The problem was the government kept artificially inflating our economy when it needed to correct. A bear market is the medicine for a bull market that has run too high, the government has stopped the medicine each time. Eventually they won't be able to stop it, like now, the medicine is here whether they want it or not.
We should have crashed harder from the dot coms, but then 9/11 happened and Bush didn't want to lose face. He didn't want bin Laden to think he had hurt us and so allowed the FED to implement asinine fiscal policy that opned the door to reckless loans. The government repealed safeguards that prevented bad trading practices put in place after the crash of 1929 to prevent such crashes again.
The FED and the government are as much to blame as Wall Street is, Greenspan should be tarred and feathered. People don't understand that savvy investors knew decades ago this moment was coming. Read up on Nikolai Kondratieff, very interesting, look at the date for the current winter cycle.
http://www.kwaves.com/kond_overview.htm
The Crash Course - The best 3 hour presentation you can watch for the next 20 years, it talks about the 3 E's energy, economy, and environment. I can't urge people strongly enough to watch it all, if you aren't blown away by what this scientist says, I'll eat my hat.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/