I solely play monk. I have always enjoyed the tanky monk builds running into a mob and just wrecking as much havoc as possible (which now-a-days is very low).
Anyways, dex is a useless main stat plain and simple. This is evident is multiple ways:
1. "Seize the initiative." Do ANY OTHER builds have a passive that states "increase your dexterity by 33% of your _________" HELL NO! Dex is so useless we essentially have to turn 33% of it into armor to make it somewhat viable.
2. "Chance to dodge." I currently have over 8,000 dex and only a 37% chance to dodge....what the hell is that all about? So the dex i have is only good 2/5 times i get hit??? Strength and Intelligence mitigates EVERY SINGLE assault taken...while dex mitigates, for me and the majority of everyone else, 2/5 hits.
3. Dexterity doesnt apply to all affixes. I cant dodge arcane, molten, desecrator, etc. However, the other main stats mitigate EVERYTHING!!!!!
I like the idea of making dexterity dodge and block combination. I mean a monk should be able to use their martial art skills to block stuff. Dex should both increase blocking and dodging.
I agree that Dex is awful. However there are now multiple builds monks have posted in these very forums showing 6-10 minute T6 clears. So Monk is not the issue, the player playing it is.
I would also like to see dex reworked somehow. Str characters have a huge armor stat, int users get very very strong ele res, while dex users get a "1 in a 3 chance to dodge something". I'm maining a DH and while the mobility is very good, its astounding how squishy they are. Sure, I'm not talking about facetanking stuff (which apparently even mages can do quite nicely) but some form of a more reliable defense would be nice.
One With Everything: Your resistance to all elements is equal to your highest elemental resistance. Imho this makes it harder to reroll items for monks. Other classes can just decide to reroll a primary stat to crit chance or resist all or some other great stat. Monks have to seriously consider rerolling a secondary stat instead.
Seize the Initiative: Your Armor is increased by 30% of your Dexterity. This means you have to stack dexterity, armor and strength to very high levels to get to a decent amount of armor.
Crusader and Barbarian have passive skills that reduce elemental damage by 20%. This means they have a huge advantage armor wise AND they have passives that actually reduce damage from molten, desecrator etc.
A lot of passive and active Monk skills increase the chance to dodge. The most damaging attacks from monsters cannot be dodged.
Arcane beams and other devastating attacks can be cast by monsters from quite some distance. Arcane beams, molten, etc. cannot be dodged.
Demon Hunter
Sharpshooter: Gain 4% Critical Hit Chance every second. This bonus is reset 1 seconds after you successfully critically hit. While you have 100% Critical Hit Chance you are surrounded by a shield that absorbs 80% of all non-physical damage.
You forgot that wiz and wd can get a flat 17/15% damage reduction from just a single passive.
The problem with dex, in my opinion is that it's unreliable and as you said most of the stuff that matters can't be dodged.Reworking the passives is one thing, but it still won't help that basically str and int users have more or less one less defense stat to worry about. Again, I don't want to be able to tank as a dh, just that when 2 ticks of anything can kill you on t3+, especially when 3 other people are spamming stuff and you have no idea what's going on can be very very annoying. And erm I'm sorry but that dh passive is a bit silly. Standing in one place for 10+ seconds only to have it cancelled the moment you shoot something...imho even the current def passives are way way more useful than this.
I think lore-wise they could explain adding % damage reduction to Dexterity with demon hunters/monks "rolling" with a punch. Yea, you didn't completely dodge the hit, but you moved enough at the last second to take some of the power out of it.
I agree that Dex is awful. However there are now multiple builds monks have posted in these very forums showing 6-10 minute T6 clears. So Monk is not the issue, the player playing it is.
Wrong. Monk IS the issue. In order to be T6 viable, you have to either farm up enough gear with the same single-resist (usually lightning) to make OWE worth using OR you have to stack defensive stats and use a group-only build (zDPS monks).
It shouldn't take 5 to 10+ times the amount of play time of other classes for a monk to be viable at that level. In fact, the OWE talent basically completely breaks Monk balance. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that talent was the sole reason that Monks are such a shitty, extra time-demanding class. That talent definitely needs to be reworked or removed.
Don't get me wrong -- I love my Monk. I have a lot of fun playing her in at least a couple different specs. But I've still got another 200+ hours to put in before my Monk will be viable for T6. In fact, I basically have to replace every piece of my gear, even the great ones, just so I can get better single-resists. That's broken and it's the reason I've more-or-less stopped playing in the last few days. The carrot is just so far out of reach that I no longer see the point.
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they're going to improve Dexterity as a stat in 2.1. With any luck, those changes will make my Monk and DH a lot more enjoyable to play.
I think lore-wise they could explain adding % damage reduction to Dexterity with demon hunters/monks "rolling" with a punch. Yea, you didn't completely dodge the hit, but you moved enough at the last second to take some of the power out of it.
This is really all that needs to be done. Period. End of story. A... glancing blow... of sorts.
I agree that Dex is awful. However there are now multiple builds monks have posted in these very forums showing 6-10 minute T6 clears. So Monk is not the issue, the player playing it is.
Variations of exploding palm build don't count as "multiple builds" in my opinion. The playstyles are similar, you just use different 'secondary' tools (if I can call it that) depending on how much CDR you have, and whether you play in groups or solo.
You basically can't find a decent group for T6 if you're a dps monk, unless you join a random public and force people to bear with you. Even T5 is a stretch - although I can pull my weight there with my extremely good Lightning set (BIS and very high rolls on everything of significance), it'd still go much faster if I just palmed. Our DPS builds are severely lacking, all of them.
Also I find the whole EP playstyle to be incredibly overpowered in general. I built a set for it and it literally trivializes the game to a point where T6 feels like T1, and it's mostly just crafted items (the only notable drop that makes a big difference really is the fist that increases palm explosion scaling - I have a 85% version, the max roll is 100%). The problem is that this build scales with enemy mob HP, not your gear, so it will stay just as viable even in the upcoming tiered rifts and whatnot. It's actually incredibly boring, and some of my friends have been asking me to start running something else simply because the game stopped being fun when I'm in the group.
I'd vote for a EP nerf in trade for a DPS buff any day of the week.
I agree that Dex is awful. However there are now multiple builds monks have posted in these very forums showing 6-10 minute T6 clears. So Monk is not the issue, the player playing it is.
Wrong. Monk IS the issue. In order to be T6 viable, you have to either farm up enough gear with the same single-resist (usually lightning) to make OWE worth using OR you have to stack defensive stats and use a group-only build (zDPS monks).
It shouldn't take 5 to 10+ times the amount of play time of other classes for a monk to be viable at that level. In fact, the OWE talent basically completely breaks Monk balance. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that talent was the sole reason that Monks are such a shitty, extra time-demanding class. That talent definitely needs to be reworked or removed.
Don't get me wrong -- I love my Monk. I have a lot of fun playing her in at least a couple different specs. But I've still got another 200+ hours to put in before my Monk will be viable for T6. In fact, I basically have to replace every piece of my gear, even the great ones, just so I can get better single-resists. That's broken and it's the reason I've more-or-less stopped playing in the last few days. The carrot is just so far out of reach that I no longer see the point.
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they're going to improve Dexterity as a stat in 2.1. With any luck, those changes will make my Monk and DH a lot more enjoyable to play.
Don't bother, even if you get the best possible gear for your lightning monk you will never do enough damage to be T6 viable anyway.
However you can spec palm, craft a couple of different sets in a couple of hours and suddenly become one of the most demanded classes for T6. It'll literally take a couple of hours, I'm not exaggerating.
Whether this can be considered good design or healthy for the game is up to you. I don't see anything good about this type of progression at all.
I think the problem relays on self healing, the LPH is quite low profile stat at t6, i'm fine with taking large damage but at least monks should take advantage of being very efficient at healing themselves. its not the case even with all the mantras.
Monks get 30% damage reduce and are pretty tanky as is, demon hunters are the ones hurt with the current state of dex. Its nice they now see this and changed awareness, but we may need resists AND armor based on dex to compete with str/int. Reflect damage hurts like hell when 50% of your toughness is inflated by dodge, something you cant dodge.
Totally agree, my monk is getting close to end game gear and I can hardly solo T3, it takes way too long to kill elites. Monk in general needs revision...
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they're going to improve Dexterity as a stat in 2.1. With any luck, those changes will make my Monk and DH a lot more enjoyable to play.
I don't keep up with reddit, which is where I assume you've seen this (I usually follow just this site and the blues tracker). Any link on that?
well after glimpsing over this thread, it seems the argument isn't so much with Dex but with Dodge as as a "main" defensive stat.
Just throwing that out there
I can see where you're coming from, but that's not entirely correct. As of the current patch, Dodge is tied to Dex completely, more so than any other standalone defensive stat. Armor, All Res, and even Block can be gotten from gear or Paragon points, whereas Dodge ONLY increases with Dex. Other classes no longer have skills that affect their dodge (with the exception of Sprint: Rush, which now seems like an oversight). Keeping that in mind, it's fair to gripe about the stat itself.
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they're going to improve Dexterity as a stat in 2.1. With any luck, those changes will make my Monk and DH a lot more enjoyable to play.
I don't keep up with reddit, which is where I assume you've seen this (I usually follow just this site and the blues tracker). Any link on that?
Fairly certain I saw it on a post on Diablofan's main page, but I'll have to look.
Actual quote was, "Our future goals for the Monk in 2.1.0 focus improving core class attributes". Our core class attribute, of course, is Dexterity, so I'm extrapolating a bit. I could've swore I saw them directly refer to dexterity, but I can't find that.
I solely play monk. I have always enjoyed the tanky monk builds running into a mob and just wrecking as much havoc as possible (which now-a-days is very low).
Anyways, dex is a useless main stat plain and simple. This is evident is multiple ways:
1. "Seize the initiative." Do ANY OTHER builds have a passive that states "increase your dexterity by 33% of your _________" HELL NO! Dex is so useless we essentially have to turn 33% of it into armor to make it somewhat viable.
2. "Chance to dodge." I currently have over 8,000 dex and only a 37% chance to dodge....what the hell is that all about? So the dex i have is only good 2/5 times i get hit??? Strength and Intelligence mitigates EVERY SINGLE assault taken...while dex mitigates, for me and the majority of everyone else, 2/5 hits.
3. Dexterity doesnt apply to all affixes. I cant dodge arcane, molten, desecrator, etc. However, the other main stats mitigate EVERYTHING!!!!!
I like the idea of making dexterity dodge and block combination. I mean a monk should be able to use their martial art skills to block stuff. Dex should both increase blocking and dodging.
Any ideas? Please add to the list!!!
THANKS
The problem with dex, in my opinion is that it's unreliable and as you said most of the stuff that matters can't be dodged.Reworking the passives is one thing, but it still won't help that basically str and int users have more or less one less defense stat to worry about. Again, I don't want to be able to tank as a dh, just that when 2 ticks of anything can kill you on t3+, especially when 3 other people are spamming stuff and you have no idea what's going on can be very very annoying.
And erm I'm sorry but that dh passive is a bit silly. Standing in one place for 10+ seconds only to have it cancelled the moment you shoot something...imho even the current def passives are way way more useful than this.
It shouldn't take 5 to 10+ times the amount of play time of other classes for a monk to be viable at that level. In fact, the OWE talent basically completely breaks Monk balance. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that talent was the sole reason that Monks are such a shitty, extra time-demanding class. That talent definitely needs to be reworked or removed.
Don't get me wrong -- I love my Monk. I have a lot of fun playing her in at least a couple different specs. But I've still got another 200+ hours to put in before my Monk will be viable for T6. In fact, I basically have to replace every piece of my gear, even the great ones, just so I can get better single-resists. That's broken and it's the reason I've more-or-less stopped playing in the last few days. The carrot is just so far out of reach that I no longer see the point.
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they're going to improve Dexterity as a stat in 2.1. With any luck, those changes will make my Monk and DH a lot more enjoyable to play.
You basically can't find a decent group for T6 if you're a dps monk, unless you join a random public and force people to bear with you. Even T5 is a stretch - although I can pull my weight there with my extremely good Lightning set (BIS and very high rolls on everything of significance), it'd still go much faster if I just palmed. Our DPS builds are severely lacking, all of them.
Also I find the whole EP playstyle to be incredibly overpowered in general. I built a set for it and it literally trivializes the game to a point where T6 feels like T1, and it's mostly just crafted items (the only notable drop that makes a big difference really is the fist that increases palm explosion scaling - I have a 85% version, the max roll is 100%). The problem is that this build scales with enemy mob HP, not your gear, so it will stay just as viable even in the upcoming tiered rifts and whatnot. It's actually incredibly boring, and some of my friends have been asking me to start running something else simply because the game stopped being fun when I'm in the group.
I'd vote for a EP nerf in trade for a DPS buff any day of the week.
However you can spec palm, craft a couple of different sets in a couple of hours and suddenly become one of the most demanded classes for T6. It'll literally take a couple of hours, I'm not exaggerating.
Whether this can be considered good design or healthy for the game is up to you. I don't see anything good about this type of progression at all.
Just throwing that out there
Actual quote was, "Our future goals for the Monk in 2.1.0 focus improving core class attributes". Our core class attribute, of course, is Dexterity, so I'm extrapolating a bit. I could've swore I saw them directly refer to dexterity, but I can't find that.