First off, patch 1.0.8 has really made me enjoy D3 again. The XP/GF/MF boosts are amazing and really glad all identify is here now.
With the new patch the ability to gain bonusses when you have more party members is a real nice feature and I have started to play a lot more Public Games than what I usually did.
But It is also a bit of a double edged sword. Since patch 1.0.8 I have seen a lot more low geared players joining MP10. And I am not saying these people are scrubs wrt to their play style, their gear is really and utterly crap for MP10. To me it seems that people are joining MP10 just to be carried.
In the previous patch a player would usually get kicked for not bringing enough DPS/EHP to support their own weight. It does seem that people are happy to just the the 4x buff that was implemented rather than having a fairly good geared player in the group.
As an example I joined a public game and the following was in the MP 10 groups.
Player 1 : 24k Dps, 29k HP. Resist and Armor would have been really low the way he was dying.
Player 2 : 1hander with shield. 6k DPS, 31K HP. Resists and Armor relatively low.
Could'nt kick them from the group as the other player/s did not accept the kick. I left the game and joined another, sure enough a few games later players with bad gear are in MP10.
There has to be something to limit players from joing different MP levels if they arn't ready for it. Completing the MP Level Solo maybe.
Anyone else had similar frustrations or view towards this?
I personally havent really had that experience much playing on the higher Public MP levels. The times Ive had this issue me and another guy would wait till they joined us in battle and would lead as many monsters to them as possible and get the killed, over and over and over. TBH the thing that annoyed me the most about the public games are the freaking gimme, gimme, gimme people who have crap characters and want free crap from you. Now I start my own game and invite just friends to play and the experience is a 1000X better.
There should definitely be a minimum character sheet DPS for matchmaking at each MP level. It should err on the side of being low, but just be there to keep out the people who are blatantly leeching like the OP mentioned.
For the time being you could try playing MP9 instead since probably most of the leechers will go straight to MP10. My guess is it'll be less of a problem eventually - as people catch on and refuse to carry them, they'll stop doing it.
Random Queue literally means random so you should definitely forget about efficiency and get ready to do some hardcore carrying. If the benefits of grouping don't outweigh single player then stop doing it or reach out for people with similar interests as you on this site for example.
I agree and I'd go one step further. You can meet people in public games. If you find people who don't suck, who aren't being carried, etc. then maybe you want to hit them up, talk to them, eventually add them to your friends list so you can create a network of people who aren't leeches.
To that extent you basically use the public games as a forum (along with dfans, the official forums, etc.) to meet peple and then slowly make the transition to multi-player private games. It's not an immediate solution, but it will give you the best long-term results.
Need to have dps and resist restriction to higher mp for sure. Last night we had a guy come to mp10 with 17k hp and 5k dps, we told him he was clearly not ready for mp10. He wouldnt leave, we ultimatly had to kick him, because he wouldnt listen to us.
Mp10 should be minimum 100k dps and 400 resist, that is reasonably low. If you dont have at least that you are wasting your time and everyone else on mp10, sometime you have to think if you are having an impact on other players game as well. I made a new monk, im not gona jump on mp10 to get carried.
Dude really? The highest item level items in WOW are the best items in the game. If an item has the ilvl of 63 in d3 it only means it has an extended potential of stat value compared to ilvl 62 items. When's the last time you saw an Arch axe or Rune sword on the top when searching for beast weapons?
Builds works too differently to judge on just stats. An automated feature couldn't do such a thing.
Then take some different criteria, as starburst suggested for example.
I was really excited for public games for when my friends weren't on and kept having the same problems with low dps/ehp. I just keep quick join open and have MP10 viable friends on my list and solo most of my time.
DPS restrictions and other kinds won't work... what if you actually have a super good tank, meaning insane EHP and low DPS, but he does the job of keeping the monsters of your back... he can't play over mp5, same goes for the insane CM wizz with low DPS but good at playing...
ilvl restrictions is a no-brainer, the ilvl system in diablo is not the same as in WoW.
Restrict by timeplayed/elitekills/achievements/whatever won't work either... maybe i just started a new character, spend 500 euro and super geared him, and i know how to play cause this is my second character of that class (sounds stupid, but some people might do something like that)... Restrictions will never work in any scenario, so you have to just find people you like to play with and take it from there, public games are and always will be the place noobs go to leech items/xp/hellfire ring mats/keys, just don't help them and eventually they will get tired and pay people to carry them.
EDIT:
My DH has 250 resist, 35k health and 250k dps, i can farm mp8, but a restriction system prolly wouldn't let me in a public game.
My WD had 120k dps, 700 resist and 25k hp at one point and i managed to play on high mp's aswell.
Not to mention some classes can spec purely for support/buffs and just focus only on staying alive, what about them ?
No class can spec for support and do mp10 without slowing down everyone else. Theres no such a thing as a tank or tanking, this is not world of warcraft everybody can tank. 100k dps is reasonably low demand for mp10 and so it 400 resist. Your DH would get one shot by about anything on mp10 even during shadow power gloom. If you take more then a minute to kill an mp10 pack solo or die in one shot, you should simply not be there, its just logic. 100k dps as a CM wizard is a 20 million budget, again really not asking for much, its MP10. You dont need to farm it. Farm it solo if you think you can, otherwise pub on mp6-7.
The only restriction that would work at least to an extend, would be that players would only be allowed to join public games on same or lower MP as they finished solo. The difficulty 'unlocking' could be act based (need to complete whole act start to finish solo) or otherwise. No other restriction method i can think of does any good.
That could work, but it has to be that specific character only and solo only.
The only restriction that would work at least to an extend, would be that players would only be allowed to join public games on same or lower MP as they finished solo. The difficulty 'unlocking' could be act based (need to complete whole act start to finish solo) or otherwise. No other restriction method i can think of does any good.
edit: which is what the OP suggested i read now
Not only is this very inconvenient, but you don't need to be able to clear it solo to do well in co-op. Playing at +1 or even +2 of your solo MP is not a bad idea considering how much easier multiplayer is.
The only restriction that would work at least to an extend, would be that players would only be allowed to join public games on same or lower MP as they finished solo. The difficulty 'unlocking' could be act based (need to complete whole act start to finish solo) or otherwise. No other restriction method i can think of does any good.
edit: which is what the OP suggested i read now
Not only is this very inconvenient, but you don't need to be able to clear it solo to do well in co-op. Playing at +1 or even +2 of your solo MP is not a bad idea considering how much easier multiplayer is.
Its only locking you down from public game, not mp10 all togheter. Its a sound idea, if you really wanna pub mp10 youll put the small effort in doing it solo. If its too hard, chance are you are slowing down others in mp10.
I've never joined a high MP public game to ever be carried, this is for sure. I'm an all found and crafted player, and occasionally, I've tried out MP10 solo with a character or two, just to see what it's like. But even with major areas in my characters' gear needing upgrading, I would never expect to be carried in public games. I know that most of the time, I'll be at a disadvantage when being beside insanely geared folks, and I acknowledge how much of an inconvenience it would be for them to babysit me.
That being said...I can add my voice to your concern, Atomsk. This game taking more work to rise in level than D2, and it being extremely reliant on acquiring good gear, people constantly beg for powerleveling and gear handouts, and I can imagine it must suck pretty royally to have to carry folks in public games (where everyone should be on their A game) that are constantly dying. I'm definitely one of the people that believes smart skill choices, quick reflexes and competent build approaches can do a lot to impact a player's success or failure in this game, even with gear that isn't in tip top shape...however, Inferno MP10 is intense for a lot of people, even many who frequent the AH, and people who are very obviously undergeared for the onslaught shouldn't be appeased.
So...we come to the idea of restrictions? To be honest, it's not a bad idea, however I think random matchmaking is meant to offer people the widest variety of players you've never met before to interact with. I think adding SOME restriction OPTIONS to public game creation (maybe Paragon level, a few particular stats being high enough, etc.) would be helpful, much like they were in D2, but if there are TOO many restrictions avaiable, your chances of getting matched with anybody drop considerably, as you're thinning out who's allowed to join you.
Thus, my suggestion is...if you want to play with random folks that are closer to your level, YOU start the public game.
Let people come to you, and/or post that you're starting a new game in one or more chat channels to drive traffic to your game. With you being the Host or Party Guide (or whatever they're calling it), when someone new enters that you don't know, tell them in chat that you're passing an eye over their gear and skills, and if they don't look strong enough, kick them. It's entirely your right to do so. While you're waiting for appropriately geared players to arrive, perhaps poke your head into some of the lesser populated areas that aren't as common for group farming, and when you have three good folks in-game, start your run formally.
Might take longer than just joining a public game, but I imagine it'd reduce your stress levels. I mean, how did people get groups of 8 going in D2? They created a game, all that was visible is their character name, level and customized game name, and that's it. Could be a level 80 Druid in Hell difficulty with 2 skill points in every skill, pretty much making them worthless. And there, you can't even see their skill tree.
At least in D3, you can see other players' skills and gear before you commit to playing with them. So it might take some patience and waiting for a good group, but you'll probably enjoy playing a bit more without having to carry folks.
Couldn't agree more with op, sometimes i do not have friends on and i wanna have the new multiplayer buffs, but it's really frustrationg to have 300k+ dps and some guy with 20k dps just getting boosted...
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Unfortunately, I see this at every MP level. Regardless of the MP, players want to be "carried". I'm the only person doing considerable dps and they're dying every minute. Sigh... back to solo.
IMHO a game lobby where you can create a game with a few parameters would solve all this... just let us set flags, like dps range, only one player per class, plvl.... and then only show the games where we are welcome. Current matchmaking is not very helpful. I'd like to see who is in a game before I join.
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First off, patch 1.0.8 has really made me enjoy D3 again. The XP/GF/MF boosts are amazing and really glad all identify is here now.
With the new patch the ability to gain bonusses when you have more party members is a real nice feature and I have started to play a lot more Public Games than what I usually did.
But It is also a bit of a double edged sword. Since patch 1.0.8 I have seen a lot more low geared players joining MP10. And I am not saying these people are scrubs wrt to their play style, their gear is really and utterly crap for MP10. To me it seems that people are joining MP10 just to be carried.
In the previous patch a player would usually get kicked for not bringing enough DPS/EHP to support their own weight. It does seem that people are happy to just the the 4x buff that was implemented rather than having a fairly good geared player in the group.
As an example I joined a public game and the following was in the MP 10 groups.
Player 1 : 24k Dps, 29k HP. Resist and Armor would have been really low the way he was dying.
Player 2 : 1hander with shield. 6k DPS, 31K HP. Resists and Armor relatively low.
Could'nt kick them from the group as the other player/s did not accept the kick. I left the game and joined another, sure enough a few games later players with bad gear are in MP10.
There has to be something to limit players from joing different MP levels if they arn't ready for it. Completing the MP Level Solo maybe.
Anyone else had similar frustrations or view towards this?
I would be all for it actually.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
What's the problem here?
For the time being you could try playing MP9 instead since probably most of the leechers will go straight to MP10. My guess is it'll be less of a problem eventually - as people catch on and refuse to carry them, they'll stop doing it.
I agree and I'd go one step further. You can meet people in public games. If you find people who don't suck, who aren't being carried, etc. then maybe you want to hit them up, talk to them, eventually add them to your friends list so you can create a network of people who aren't leeches.
To that extent you basically use the public games as a forum (along with dfans, the official forums, etc.) to meet peple and then slowly make the transition to multi-player private games. It's not an immediate solution, but it will give you the best long-term results.
Mp10 should be minimum 100k dps and 400 resist, that is reasonably low. If you dont have at least that you are wasting your time and everyone else on mp10, sometime you have to think if you are having an impact on other players game as well. I made a new monk, im not gona jump on mp10 to get carried.
Then take some different criteria, as starburst suggested for example.
Still all for such a thing.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
No class can spec for support and do mp10 without slowing down everyone else. Theres no such a thing as a tank or tanking, this is not world of warcraft everybody can tank. 100k dps is reasonably low demand for mp10 and so it 400 resist. Your DH would get one shot by about anything on mp10 even during shadow power gloom. If you take more then a minute to kill an mp10 pack solo or die in one shot, you should simply not be there, its just logic. 100k dps as a CM wizard is a 20 million budget, again really not asking for much, its MP10. You dont need to farm it. Farm it solo if you think you can, otherwise pub on mp6-7.
That could work, but it has to be that specific character only and solo only.
Not only is this very inconvenient, but you don't need to be able to clear it solo to do well in co-op. Playing at +1 or even +2 of your solo MP is not a bad idea considering how much easier multiplayer is.
Its only locking you down from public game, not mp10 all togheter. Its a sound idea, if you really wanna pub mp10 youll put the small effort in doing it solo. If its too hard, chance are you are slowing down others in mp10.
That being said...I can add my voice to your concern, Atomsk. This game taking more work to rise in level than D2, and it being extremely reliant on acquiring good gear, people constantly beg for powerleveling and gear handouts, and I can imagine it must suck pretty royally to have to carry folks in public games (where everyone should be on their A game) that are constantly dying. I'm definitely one of the people that believes smart skill choices, quick reflexes and competent build approaches can do a lot to impact a player's success or failure in this game, even with gear that isn't in tip top shape...however, Inferno MP10 is intense for a lot of people, even many who frequent the AH, and people who are very obviously undergeared for the onslaught shouldn't be appeased.
So...we come to the idea of restrictions? To be honest, it's not a bad idea, however I think random matchmaking is meant to offer people the widest variety of players you've never met before to interact with. I think adding SOME restriction OPTIONS to public game creation (maybe Paragon level, a few particular stats being high enough, etc.) would be helpful, much like they were in D2, but if there are TOO many restrictions avaiable, your chances of getting matched with anybody drop considerably, as you're thinning out who's allowed to join you.
Thus, my suggestion is...if you want to play with random folks that are closer to your level, YOU start the public game.
Let people come to you, and/or post that you're starting a new game in one or more chat channels to drive traffic to your game. With you being the Host or Party Guide (or whatever they're calling it), when someone new enters that you don't know, tell them in chat that you're passing an eye over their gear and skills, and if they don't look strong enough, kick them. It's entirely your right to do so. While you're waiting for appropriately geared players to arrive, perhaps poke your head into some of the lesser populated areas that aren't as common for group farming, and when you have three good folks in-game, start your run formally.
Might take longer than just joining a public game, but I imagine it'd reduce your stress levels. I mean, how did people get groups of 8 going in D2? They created a game, all that was visible is their character name, level and customized game name, and that's it. Could be a level 80 Druid in Hell difficulty with 2 skill points in every skill, pretty much making them worthless. And there, you can't even see their skill tree.
At least in D3, you can see other players' skills and gear before you commit to playing with them. So it might take some patience and waiting for a good group, but you'll probably enjoy playing a bit more without having to carry folks.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...