Grouping & Magic Find

  • #21

    If a player with high mf does more than his share of the damage on a given monster, he gets to keep his full MF on said monster.


    This. I don't know why there can't be a meet in the middle solution. People who are for averaging MF basically come out with a straw man saying "If you are going for MF you have 0 dps, if you go for offensive stats you 1 shot everything."

    At high end gear levels, the difference might be 1-2 hits, if that. Again, we aren't talking blues with MF only as the stats, we are talking rares and legendaries with offensive stats with the added bonus of MF.
  • #22
    Does the average mf show up anywhere so you know how much you are actually getting in the particular game?

    Also, If you have decent mf and play with people that don't you lose big

    A-100
    B-20
    C-10
    D-10

    so that is 160/4=40. So now it is
    A-loss 60
    B-gain 20
    C-gain 30
    D-gain 30
  • #23

    Here is my solution to the MF problem. If a player with high mf does more than his share of the damage on a given monster, he gets to keep his full MF on said monster. So if its a 4 person group, the player would need to do 26% of the damage on a monster to get his full mf on that monster. 3 person group that magical 34% of damage for full mf, 2 person group, 51% for the full mf. So if there is 7 monster mob and the player with the highest MF does more than 26% damage on 3 of them, he gets his MF on those 3 and the group mf on the other 4.

    As far as those that hate mf, I think they take for granted the dps gear and stat. This is not WoW. You can't expect to attack as soon as your cooldown is done. You will be clicking furiously to avoid damage as well. In WoW, once you engage an enemy, its about who has the higher dps and def and what order your attacks are in. DPS matters, but the clicks of the mouse will matter. We can do something in Diablo that allows us to avoid attacks. WoW is all about numbers and number crunching and min/maxing or you won't be effective. I still believe that MF will be the endgame build for inferno. If you don't like a game where DPS is not the most sought after stat, I then think Diablo won't be for you.

    To be perfectly honest, I expect there to be a certian DPS level you want to attain. After that, you will also want MF/GF and something that has not even been mentioned yet in these debates, faster run/walk. I can't tell you how much time is saved by a little increase in foot speed in D2.

    Last thing on MF while I am here. MF was big on set pieces in D2 as a set bonus. These bonuses won't even effect the normal inferno slots. I have been surprised that the set piece discussion has been completely left out.


    I like the idea of %damage done versus the applicable MF you get from that monster.
  • #24



    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.


    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    Magic Find in D2 was often a FREE STAT!!! on set pieces... ooops.
  • #25

    I see it as a tradeoff of find stats for survivability in group runs, It will ultimately lower MF/GF/EXP gain in groups overall. if three people have 1200 MF and one person has 1800 MF, that means the 1200 peeps are bumped to 1350 and the 1800 is bummered out of 450 of his hard earned MF gear.

    Groups will be run because of the social gain not the actual stat gains - in most situations it seems solo play wold be more beneficial to people from a find stat point of view.

    There would be a survivability gain from groups (heals, buffs and debuffs) which is an incentive to do them (inferno content)

    any thoughts?

    Its impossible to have a complete balance, but if all were close to equal equipped and one had 450 more MF it would have cost him some DPS, why should the rest be punished for that? this system isn't perfect but its more fair in general.




    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.


    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    Magic Find in D2 was often a FREE STAT!!! on set pieces... ooops.

    It has been stated by blizzard that there wont be "free" MF in diablo 3 and players will have to sacrifice for MF.

    Doesn't matter if you sacrifice survivability or damage it still effects your group, if you keep dying you are slowing down the rest, if you do low damage you are slowing down the rest, with this change your at least giving something back.
  • #26
    I think the idea behind cooperative play is that you're working together. Therefore you're supposed to be "sharing" and helping one another. Everyone already gets all of their own drops, I don't see how it's a problem to average the MF if everyone is going to have MF and offensive stats, because that means most people's MF would already be similar unless they are deliberately going for MF and nothing else.

    To me this is also a very eloquent solution to prevent people from leeching off of other people. Now instead of getting all the benefits for themselves, they will be giving the other players more magic find while having less than if they just played the game for themselves.
  • #27


    Here is my solution to the MF problem. If a player with high mf does more than his share of the damage on a given monster, he gets to keep his full MF on said monster. So if its a 4 person group, the player would need to do 26% of the damage on a monster to get his full mf on that monster. 3 person group that magical 34% of damage for full mf, 2 person group, 51% for the full mf. So if there is 7 monster mob and the player with the highest MF does more than 26% damage on 3 of them, he gets his MF on those 3 and the group mf on the other 4.

    As far as those that hate mf, I think they take for granted the dps gear and stat. This is not WoW. You can't expect to attack as soon as your cooldown is done. You will be clicking furiously to avoid damage as well. In WoW, once you engage an enemy, its about who has the higher dps and def and what order your attacks are in. DPS matters, but the clicks of the mouse will matter. We can do something in Diablo that allows us to avoid attacks. WoW is all about numbers and number crunching and min/maxing or you won't be effective. I still believe that MF will be the endgame build for inferno. If you don't like a game where DPS is not the most sought after stat, I then think Diablo won't be for you.

    To be perfectly honest, I expect there to be a certian DPS level you want to attain. After that, you will also want MF/GF and something that has not even been mentioned yet in these debates, faster run/walk. I can't tell you how much time is saved by a little increase in foot speed in D2.

    Last thing on MF while I am here. MF was big on set pieces in D2 as a set bonus. These bonuses won't even effect the normal inferno slots. I have been surprised that the set piece discussion has been completely left out.


    I like the idea of %damage done versus the applicable MF you get from that monster.


    I have thought about it at length over the weekend and thats what I came up with before dosing off last night. It has a draw back as in MF people may lerch for elites/ champions and bosses while avoiding the minions but it also encourages to proactive fighting and dps by those with higher MF. As long as no one charges a group Leroy Jenkins style I think its a good compromise.
  • #28


    I see it as a tradeoff of find stats for survivability in group runs, It will ultimately lower MF/GF/EXP gain in groups overall. if three people have 1200 MF and one person has 1800 MF, that means the 1200 peeps are bumped to 1350 and the 1800 is bummered out of 450 of his hard earned MF gear.

    Groups will be run because of the social gain not the actual stat gains - in most situations it seems solo play wold be more beneficial to people from a find stat point of view.

    There would be a survivability gain from groups (heals, buffs and debuffs) which is an incentive to do them (inferno content)

    any thoughts?

    Its impossible to have a complete balance, but if all were close to equal equipped and one had 450 more MF it would have cost him some DPS, why should the rest be punished for that? this system isn't perfect but its more fair in general.


    totally, i see it as people doing group runs because of mantras and heals and shields that benefit the entire party. DPS will be important but ultimately the winners will know how to survive. I think that its completely fair to have the find stats averaged, it pretty keen to find the optimal group situation though.
  • #29
    MF/GF stats on gear will not lower your dps if you chose great other stats. Some classes could easily drop def stats for these kind of stats. Playing a range you need less def. They are so much possiblity to make efficient chars with great mf (rememberind D2 sorc for example).

    Plus this solution of sharing MF threw groups is a great idea because other player having benefits to group with those kinds of chars. And if the MFmaxers dont want to to share ? Fine, lets them play solo, and if they re char being wype :P
  • #30
    ....also does blizz actually consider changing there hard worked out mechanics that are balanced for millions of people playing the game? it might be more beneficial for us to try and work within their choices rather than suggest new ones.

    If it turns out that a certain mechanic just fails on a whole (lets say the current elective mode usability...) then they might get the hint and rework it.
  • #31


    I see it as a tradeoff of find stats for survivability in group runs, It will ultimately lower MF/GF/EXP gain in groups overall. if three people have 1200 MF and one person has 1800 MF, that means the 1200 peeps are bumped to 1350 and the 1800 is bummered out of 450 of his hard earned MF gear.

    Groups will be run because of the social gain not the actual stat gains - in most situations it seems solo play wold be more beneficial to people from a find stat point of view.

    There would be a survivability gain from groups (heals, buffs and debuffs) which is an incentive to do them (inferno content)

    any thoughts?

    Its impossible to have a complete balance, but if all were close to equal equipped and one had 450 more MF it would have cost him some DPS, why should the rest be punished for that? this system isn't perfect but its more fair in general.




    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.


    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    Magic Find in D2 was often a FREE STAT!!! on set pieces... ooops.

    It has been stated by blizzard that there wont be "free" MF in diablo 3 and players will have to sacrifice for MF.

    Doesn't matter if you sacrifice survivability or damage it still effects your group, if you keep dying you are slowing down the rest, if you do low damage you are slowing down the rest, with this change your at least giving something back.


    I have not seen Blizzard state MF bonuses won't be on Set pieces. If set pieces are going to be viable at end game, they will have MF on them. What Blizzard was refering to, was the Ice Sorc who could deal crazy high AOE damage and still be high MF. You are no longer getting your dps mainly from your build, but mainly from your gear.
  • #32
    It will lower you stats compared to someone with equal gear but more focused on combat stats.
    There won't be diablo 2 sorc or diablo 2 mf chars. If you think so, just go into mf but don't qq bliz for making inferno so bad you can't kill a worthless zombie. If inferno get's nerfed because many people feel like treasure hunters, it won't be great. But you can go find treasures with your mf in nightmare and maybe hell. That's where mf won't lower your kill rate that much.
  • #33

    It will lower you stats compared to someone with equal gear but more focused on combat stats.
    There won't be diablo 2 sorc or diablo 2 mf chars. If you think so, just go into mf but don't qq bliz for making inferno so bad you can't kill a worthless zombie. If inferno get's nerfed because many people feel like treasure hunters, it won't be great. But you can go find treasures with your mf in nightmare and maybe hell. That's where mf won't lower your kill rate that much.


    From the early levels right now there is a lot of MF to get, and that MF is not hurting your averal DPS at all. I missed it when Blizzard talked about the fact you'll no longer be able to stack MF while getting good combat gear, but so far the game is filled with "free" MF.
  • #34
    If magic find doesn't make you weaker (like some of you in this thread claim), then why was this change needed in the first place?
  • #35


    It will lower you stats compared to someone with equal gear but more focused on combat stats.
    There won't be diablo 2 sorc or diablo 2 mf chars. If you think so, just go into mf but don't qq bliz for making inferno so bad you can't kill a worthless zombie. If inferno get's nerfed because many people feel like treasure hunters, it won't be great. But you can go find treasures with your mf in nightmare and maybe hell. That's where mf won't lower your kill rate that much.


    From the early levels right now there is a lot of MF to get, and that MF is not hurting your averal DPS at all. I missed it when Blizzard talked about the fact you'll no longer be able to stack MF while getting good combat gear, but so far the game is filled with "free" MF.


    Early level MF doesnt count and really doesnt matter. They have said that NM on is really hard. Especially Inferno, they said if you stack MF you will die. You will need to stack good gear and defensive skills to stay alive. If someone is going to be a leach stacking MF gear and inferno while the rest of the group kills stuff, then they deserve to get the share.

    All of this totally depends on Inferno being as hard as advertised tho. If its not screaming hard, then ya, people will be able to stack more and then they get a little screwed by people not stacking it. So assuming its as hard as its supposed to be, this change helps the good players and hurts the bad.
  • #36

    If magic find doesn't make you weaker (like some of you in this thread claim), then why was this change needed in the first place?


    Well, MF should make you weaker logically, but I don't see that happening so far. It might in the release build or in later difficulties, but we don't know yet.

    So right now the only reason of the change would be to make the game rewardable for those who don't understand the need to get a balance of MF/Combat gear , or those who simply don't know what this stats means. So a change for the casuals, just like the new skills UI.
  • #37


    Early level MF doesnt count and really doesnt matter. They have said that NM on is really hard. Especially Inferno, they said if you stack MF you will die. You will need to stack good gear and defensive skills to stay alive. If someone is going to be a leach stacking MF gear and inferno while the rest of the group kills stuff, then they deserve to get the share.

    All of this totally depends on Inferno being as hard as advertised tho. If its not screaming hard, then ya, people will be able to stack more and then they get a little screwed by people not stacking it. So assuming its as hard as its supposed to be, this change helps the good players and hurts the bad.


    I really want to trust you, but when/how did they mentioned it? Stacking MF like mad is probably gonna make you die in a sec on inferno, but it doesnt mean it'll be impossible to get balanced (mf/combat ability) gear?
  • #38
    Personally I think it's the worst change they've made to the game. Here are my reasons:
    1. It's confusing to new players. Most players will jump in D3 logically thinking that the MF they have is for them. That's the way it worked in D2, and that's the easiest way to understand it. I can see players investing a lot of their time into magic find until one day someone comes along and says: "hey, you know that is evenly distributed amongst us, right?", then that player will go on Diablofans to confirm this, and then be REALLY pissed.
    2. It encourages MF players to play alone. I would think Blizzard wants us to play together and build a community, but if I'm a MF whore (which I personally am), I'll never party with other because I want to get the most out of my MF.
    3. It renders MF, GF, and +Exp useless. Many players will simply stop getting these attributes because they want to play with others.
    4. Magic Find is Unique to the Diablo Franchise. Why the hell do they want to change it?
    "All generalizations are false, including this one." -Mark Twain
  • #39

    If magic find doesn't make you weaker (like some of you in this thread claim), then why was this change needed in the first place?


    MF will make you stronger because you will get more drops which increases the chance of getting that great gear (that will probably also have MF on it.) This change was to prevent people going full out MF with low dps and leeching off the group. It was a proactive step by Blizzard to stop an obvious farming technique by those looking to profit on RMAH. An easy bot to make would be a "follow bot" who did nothing but follow the group and pick up loot/gold.

    It doe not mean you won't be viable in inferno if you use some slots for MF. Here let me explain. When you get to inferno, you will most likely have Hell gear (later on, this may not be the case as you can buy inferno gear at AH or RMAH.) But you are going to be able to kill stuff in Inferno with Hell gear so you can get the Inferno gear. That means there is going to be room for improvement. And you can choose to improve more with DPS or with MF. Also, don't think your first set of inferno gear is going to be the best. Nope, there are going to be different levels of rarity and elite amongst the elites too. In conclusion, there will be room for MF gear in Inferno. The question will be, whats the sweet spot for DPS vs other attributes like MF, faster run/walk and others that excape me?
  • #40



    I see it as a tradeoff of find stats for survivability in group runs, It will ultimately lower MF/GF/EXP gain in groups overall. if three people have 1200 MF and one person has 1800 MF, that means the 1200 peeps are bumped to 1350 and the 1800 is bummered out of 450 of his hard earned MF gear.

    Groups will be run because of the social gain not the actual stat gains - in most situations it seems solo play wold be more beneficial to people from a find stat point of view.

    There would be a survivability gain from groups (heals, buffs and debuffs) which is an incentive to do them (inferno content)

    any thoughts?

    Its impossible to have a complete balance, but if all were close to equal equipped and one had 450 more MF it would have cost him some DPS, why should the rest be punished for that? this system isn't perfect but its more fair in general.




    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.


    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    Magic Find in D2 was often a FREE STAT!!! on set pieces... ooops.

    It has been stated by blizzard that there wont be "free" MF in diablo 3 and players will have to sacrifice for MF.

    Doesn't matter if you sacrifice survivability or damage it still effects your group, if you keep dying you are slowing down the rest, if you do low damage you are slowing down the rest, with this change your at least giving something back.


    I have not seen Blizzard state MF bonuses won't be on Set pieces. If set pieces are going to be viable at end game, they will have MF on them. What Blizzard was refering to, was the Ice Sorc who could deal crazy high AOE damage and still be high MF. You are no longer getting your dps mainly from your build, but mainly from your gear.

    And that is why you will have to sacrifice DPS/survivability if you want to go all out MF, and what does set pieces have to do with it? the pieces will have a certain balance, the point is what will you do with your other pieces? prioritize MF over other essential states? and we don't know how common/uncommon the sets are at the moment.

    The issue is players that just use the highest MF pieces and don't care about their contribution to the group, not players that use their class sets etc... to be honest i have no idea how you even got to the set example (every stat has the potential to be a bonus, does that mean all the stats in the game are free?), my post was about people that put MF above all else.
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