So basically, you get more exp by using alot of aoe spells and killing multiple monsters at once?
I can see that working somewhere like Devil May Cry or something, but the way Diablo is, mass killing is the name of the game. Just look at the demo, the Barbarian dispatches all those monsters in seconds. If the Barbarian can do that, imagine how fast the other classes could do it.
I don't know, but from what I have seen of Diablo and of the Chain Exp, they just don't seem like they would work together.
Eh, w're not exactly being forced to keep up a chain of combos though. There are many other routes that players could take to keep the kills going.
As for mindless-skill spamming of D2, won't this make it even more rampant ?
Think about it.
Back in D2, basically everyone made a hammerdin, because they fucking owned, and people were lazy. If this same mindset translates over to D3, players will simply find the skills with the most AOE, and will use them to get insane experience bonuses.
Anywho, what about items ? shouldn't we be given time to pick them up?
With a system like this, you'll constantly have people screaming "HURRY TEH FUCK UP N00B!!1!!one!!!"
I really don't like this idea, just seems to be encouraging rushing through the game, and mass AOE skills...
As I stated before this is the kind of stuff that require the player to actualy play the game to understand. So if it works or not are beyond our experience in the game (wich is 0%) to know.
I only said that i like the intention behind the idea - the intention to make D3 gameplay at least something that can be compered to the most modern action rpgs.
It's hard to tell exactly what it says but for sure 4 kills I think the middle defines the type of bonus and then the X# for how much of an XP bonus is given. I know there are other videos or pictures out there of this though, but I will have to hunt them down.
OT I laughed at the bottom URL claiming to have a D3 beta.
Based on the videos/interviews, IMO, it seems that Blizzard is promoting the idea of "action-based". In other words, a fast-paced game that discourages players from not fighting.
Of course, Zhar mentioned the possibility of this causing impatience and also the priority of AoE spells. And I think these are good arguments.
Impatience can be a problem to those who prefer a more a strategical approach. But I think Blizzard is trying to aim at a reckless and fun game. But something to discuss is if patience is a characteristic of the game or a characteristic of the player? Is it the game's fault that players are impatient or is it that the players are impatience themselves? Either way, maturity level of the community will affect game play somewhat.
As for AoE spells, I have to say we simply don't know how its going to work. Blizzard stresses the idea that every character is a DPS class and that every character has the ability to kill. However, of course some spells will be better than others, but then again its all about the balance. Perhaps the AoE spells are overly underpowered...the question is....who knows?
Honestly, when I look at this system, I can't see you getting very big chain kills later on in the game (as well as you can in the beginning). With good balancing, this will allow a moderate skilled player to smash through the opening levels faster (through large kill chains), and later on it will be much harder to get these options.
Now people are saying this might hurt the game. To be honest, I think its a little more rewarding than our previous D2 options: I randomly find an experience shrine and magically get double exp for set time, which I try to bum rush rape as many monsters as I can for mad exp progression. This kinda cuts down on the random factor in a way, but since they already announced shrines are gone they might as well incorporate something to give you a little bonus exp, and I have no problem with basing that bonus off of skill.
Most of the Diablo that we have all seen so far is within the > lvl20 stages of the game. At this point you will probably smashing monsters with big moves very quickly. Later on however, you could imagine that the progress will become much slower, and killing monsters will take time and skill.
Also, D3 seems to be implementing a lot of new innovative ways to kill multiple monsters at one time. For example, the weakened wall. You come up on a weakened wall and use it to your advantage. It kills a bunch of monsters and you get rewarded. Also, many creatures are coming out with new tactics to dispatch them. For example shielded skellys: you aren't going to just be able to pummel them to death, you need to drop that shield somehow to dispatch them easier. I think we will see many scenarios like this in the future.
Also, I bet it will come down to some balancing as well. Two seconds is a pretty good about of time to keep bashing. If they lowered the time a little, it would be much harder to just spam spam spam, and you would be rewarded even more for using dynamic combat.
Its up for rough debate, but I highly doubt Blizzard is going to implement a system that makes rediculous amount of easy exp gains amazingly easy. I can imagine it will be balanced in group play as well, as if combos are linked you could see some pretty high numbers. To balance this they could actually lower the exp you would get from monsters to promote combos.
At this point, its a hard call to make. I like the concept, but I don't know if it will work out well. Blizzard will alpha test it a lot, I am sure, and beta will help determine its balances as well. Who knows, it may not even end up in the final game due to major imbalance.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
What if someone want to play a little slower, instead of frantically and suicidally grinding through enemies, then the game should penalize him by cutting down the experience given? Sounds idiotic.
First of all good argument. But some points to discuss.
There are more reasons for an exp combo that just to reward those risky players. With a new need to dish as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, it will make players want to create a good team. Good teamwork deserves reward.
Now slower players are fine, its natural. But REALLY REALLY slow players, that don't do anything to help is a problem. I'm talking about leechers, they don't do anything because they don't lose out by not helping. This system somewhat hurts leechers so it does have its pros nonetheless.
But the ultimate question is, why is that player slow to begin with? There are two major answers that I can think of...either he simply wants to enjoy the game or he likes to plan.
This system does not force a player to play fast. If you want to enjoy the game, you can easily enjoy the game even if you lose like 1% of the exp, because in the end, you played just for enjoyment not for thrill. You are relaxed...not so much competitive, so why compare your exp gains with someone else who's faster? It should not matter if you are just a chill guy.
The second is your a thinker and thinking is what you do. Well the game isn't much of strategy game and does not require THAT much thinking. How much slower are you? If it's just a tad bit, exp gain would be close to negligible to care. At least IMO.
Well, I can see what you are getting at Doppelganger, but there are just a few ideas that came to my mind when you said this. I try to put myself the the shoes of the developers when thinking upon these things. You mention slower players, and this can be interpreted in a few ways, and you leave it relatively open, so I will discuss a few possible interpretations.
One big issue as far as people "playing slow" that Blizzard themselves have noticed is that while some characters (class and build combined) can smash monsters relatively quickly, others take a little longer to kill monsters (be it for whatever reason). Jay Wilson specifically mentions that they don't specifically like that, but they like the idea of being rewarded for playing more dynamically. He also mentions that if they can find a way to reward players not just for killing fast, but for using your skills more dynamically, they would definitely hope to do that. From the little we currently know about the combo system (as it was still in development and being tweaked when they made the demo), much may have changed. I for one would be excited to hear that it rewards players for playing smart (through dynamic combat) instead of just being rewarded for major kill combos. (All developer info courtesy of the Jay Wilson and Alan Barrack Interview, Blizzcon 08
Another concern of yours is people who either aren't making it to the next group of monsters fast enough or just want to stop and see the scenery. To be honest, I think with better balancing they can tweak the max time between kills to keep the combo going to a way that you can recieve a nice bonus for killing this one group quickly and efficiently, but even moving as quickly as possible you probably will not be able to keep those kills going. We must remember, what little we saw of it was still under developement. Perhaps Blizzcon 09 will shed some new light. It could either be trashed or completely rehauled by now, why knows till Aug 21-22?
Ima give it a fair shot, see what Blizz can do with it. Its really a nice concept if they can pull it off and it feels fair. Only time will tell.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
I like the sound of this concept, it seems like it will reward skill a little more than previous installments. Also I don't see why one couldn't take a break from the constant grinding to kill slowly and watch death animations, eventually everyone will begin killing monsters without giving them a second glance, at least I think they will.
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Don't try to be a great man, just be a man... and let history make its own judgment. -Zefram Cochrane, Star Trek
I'm not specifically talking about "a thinker" or something, besides its about tactics, not strategy (tactics as in, battle tactics, which may not be killing as much monsters in as little time possible), and that is a (big) part of the game. But someone might want to play a little slower for other reasons as well. It doesn't really matter why. The point is that a (skilled and fast) team or player already reaps the rewards by being able to play that good, or effective or whatever. I see no reason whatsoever to reward them artificially a second time.
Also, either the exp gain is relevant (and thus more then a measly 1%) or its not and thus practically useless. Either it'll hurt leechers in a significant way, or it doesn't. It can't be both.
Let's clear something up about this: The time you have to get your KILL SPREE up is important. I think they said something like 2 seconds. Whose to say you can't completely own and rampage one group of monsters, and then take it easy, get your loot, and slowly meander over to the next group of monsters? You arent FORCED TO GO!GO!GO! and run to the next group of monsters. Whats the rush? The time to get your kill spree fix is over...
Let's also clear something else up. If you are with a player who you think is way too slow, I'm sure there will be solutions. There will probably be more than 1 really slow player on Diablo 3, and there will be players with a variety of paces. Perhaps when you go onto Battle.net and you are searching for a party to play with, you can choose your desired gamespeed, (RAMPAGE, Very fast, Fast, Average, Slow, Meanderers)
Overall, the Kill Spree is a great idea. This not only promotes smart playing, (as in using a weakened wall to crush 20 zombies) but it also promotes cooperative play. And, it also promotes the Blizzard's aim in Diablo 3, to make it a true action-rpg. This merely bonuses those who play it as an action game, and dispatch monsters quickly. As said before, you aren't forced to run from mob fight to mob fight, but ARE forced to KILL QUICKLY.
I see no issue with that at all.
Doppelganger? You wanted strategy and tactical playing? Well the option is there for you. With your party you can establish the best combinations of your skills. "Ok guys hold up for a second. Behind this door are a bunch of monsters, probably, so let's decide on the skills that we should use. Personally, I think my whirlwind will work well with ZapDOS's bouncing fireball rune effect, and MoLTres's stun to disarm potential skeleton shield bearers."
Like I said, this Kill Spree system would promote dispatching monsters quickly, and not necessarily running through the game.
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I can see that working somewhere like Devil May Cry or something, but the way Diablo is, mass killing is the name of the game. Just look at the demo, the Barbarian dispatches all those monsters in seconds. If the Barbarian can do that, imagine how fast the other classes could do it.
I don't know, but from what I have seen of Diablo and of the Chain Exp, they just don't seem like they would work together.
As I stated before this is the kind of stuff that require the player to actualy play the game to understand. So if it works or not are beyond our experience in the game (wich is 0%) to know.
I only said that i like the intention behind the idea - the intention to make D3 gameplay at least something that can be compered to the most modern action rpgs.
OT I laughed at the bottom URL claiming to have a D3 beta.
Of course, Zhar mentioned the possibility of this causing impatience and also the priority of AoE spells. And I think these are good arguments.
Impatience can be a problem to those who prefer a more a strategical approach. But I think Blizzard is trying to aim at a reckless and fun game. But something to discuss is if patience is a characteristic of the game or a characteristic of the player? Is it the game's fault that players are impatient or is it that the players are impatience themselves? Either way, maturity level of the community will affect game play somewhat.
As for AoE spells, I have to say we simply don't know how its going to work. Blizzard stresses the idea that every character is a DPS class and that every character has the ability to kill. However, of course some spells will be better than others, but then again its all about the balance. Perhaps the AoE spells are overly underpowered...the question is....who knows?
Now people are saying this might hurt the game. To be honest, I think its a little more rewarding than our previous D2 options: I randomly find an experience shrine and magically get double exp for set time, which I try to bum rush rape as many monsters as I can for mad exp progression. This kinda cuts down on the random factor in a way, but since they already announced shrines are gone they might as well incorporate something to give you a little bonus exp, and I have no problem with basing that bonus off of skill.
Most of the Diablo that we have all seen so far is within the > lvl20 stages of the game. At this point you will probably smashing monsters with big moves very quickly. Later on however, you could imagine that the progress will become much slower, and killing monsters will take time and skill.
Also, D3 seems to be implementing a lot of new innovative ways to kill multiple monsters at one time. For example, the weakened wall. You come up on a weakened wall and use it to your advantage. It kills a bunch of monsters and you get rewarded. Also, many creatures are coming out with new tactics to dispatch them. For example shielded skellys: you aren't going to just be able to pummel them to death, you need to drop that shield somehow to dispatch them easier. I think we will see many scenarios like this in the future.
Also, I bet it will come down to some balancing as well. Two seconds is a pretty good about of time to keep bashing. If they lowered the time a little, it would be much harder to just spam spam spam, and you would be rewarded even more for using dynamic combat.
Its up for rough debate, but I highly doubt Blizzard is going to implement a system that makes rediculous amount of easy exp gains amazingly easy. I can imagine it will be balanced in group play as well, as if combos are linked you could see some pretty high numbers. To balance this they could actually lower the exp you would get from monsters to promote combos.
At this point, its a hard call to make. I like the concept, but I don't know if it will work out well. Blizzard will alpha test it a lot, I am sure, and beta will help determine its balances as well. Who knows, it may not even end up in the final game due to major imbalance.
First of all good argument. But some points to discuss.
There are more reasons for an exp combo that just to reward those risky players. With a new need to dish as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, it will make players want to create a good team. Good teamwork deserves reward.
Now slower players are fine, its natural. But REALLY REALLY slow players, that don't do anything to help is a problem. I'm talking about leechers, they don't do anything because they don't lose out by not helping. This system somewhat hurts leechers so it does have its pros nonetheless.
But the ultimate question is, why is that player slow to begin with? There are two major answers that I can think of...either he simply wants to enjoy the game or he likes to plan.
This system does not force a player to play fast. If you want to enjoy the game, you can easily enjoy the game even if you lose like 1% of the exp, because in the end, you played just for enjoyment not for thrill. You are relaxed...not so much competitive, so why compare your exp gains with someone else who's faster? It should not matter if you are just a chill guy.
The second is your a thinker and thinking is what you do. Well the game isn't much of strategy game and does not require THAT much thinking. How much slower are you? If it's just a tad bit, exp gain would be close to negligible to care. At least IMO.
One big issue as far as people "playing slow" that Blizzard themselves have noticed is that while some characters (class and build combined) can smash monsters relatively quickly, others take a little longer to kill monsters (be it for whatever reason). Jay Wilson specifically mentions that they don't specifically like that, but they like the idea of being rewarded for playing more dynamically. He also mentions that if they can find a way to reward players not just for killing fast, but for using your skills more dynamically, they would definitely hope to do that. From the little we currently know about the combo system (as it was still in development and being tweaked when they made the demo), much may have changed. I for one would be excited to hear that it rewards players for playing smart (through dynamic combat) instead of just being rewarded for major kill combos. (All developer info courtesy of the Jay Wilson and Alan Barrack Interview, Blizzcon 08
Another concern of yours is people who either aren't making it to the next group of monsters fast enough or just want to stop and see the scenery. To be honest, I think with better balancing they can tweak the max time between kills to keep the combo going to a way that you can recieve a nice bonus for killing this one group quickly and efficiently, but even moving as quickly as possible you probably will not be able to keep those kills going. We must remember, what little we saw of it was still under developement. Perhaps Blizzcon 09 will shed some new light. It could either be trashed or completely rehauled by now, why knows till Aug 21-22?
Ima give it a fair shot, see what Blizz can do with it. Its really a nice concept if they can pull it off and it feels fair. Only time will tell.
Let's clear something up about this: The time you have to get your KILL SPREE up is important. I think they said something like 2 seconds. Whose to say you can't completely own and rampage one group of monsters, and then take it easy, get your loot, and slowly meander over to the next group of monsters? You arent FORCED TO GO!GO!GO! and run to the next group of monsters. Whats the rush? The time to get your kill spree fix is over...
Let's also clear something else up. If you are with a player who you think is way too slow, I'm sure there will be solutions. There will probably be more than 1 really slow player on Diablo 3, and there will be players with a variety of paces. Perhaps when you go onto Battle.net and you are searching for a party to play with, you can choose your desired gamespeed, (RAMPAGE, Very fast, Fast, Average, Slow, Meanderers)
Overall, the Kill Spree is a great idea. This not only promotes smart playing, (as in using a weakened wall to crush 20 zombies) but it also promotes cooperative play. And, it also promotes the Blizzard's aim in Diablo 3, to make it a true action-rpg. This merely bonuses those who play it as an action game, and dispatch monsters quickly. As said before, you aren't forced to run from mob fight to mob fight, but ARE forced to KILL QUICKLY.
I see no issue with that at all.
Doppelganger? You wanted strategy and tactical playing? Well the option is there for you. With your party you can establish the best combinations of your skills. "Ok guys hold up for a second. Behind this door are a bunch of monsters, probably, so let's decide on the skills that we should use. Personally, I think my whirlwind will work well with ZapDOS's bouncing fireball rune effect, and MoLTres's stun to disarm potential skeleton shield bearers."
Like I said, this Kill Spree system would promote dispatching monsters quickly, and not necessarily running through the game.