So, I want to take a few seconds and argue against a few points that are commonly brought up in regards to Diablo 3's state of affairs. There are some complaints I hear people whining about day in and day out, and I want to address these in a realistic sense. I fully believe that each person is entitled to their opinion, so feel free to discuss my points in a civil and logical way. If this thread goes the way of "you're stupid cause I say so", I kindly request that the mods lock this thread down. I'm attacking the complaints, and in the final paragraph, I'll be attacking all the complainers.
A few notes before I get started: I am bias, I love this game. I've been playing since launch day, with the server errors and timeouts for the first 6-10 hours after the game launched. I have about 900 hours in game, but about 600 of those were before paragon.
Let's jump right into it. The first complaint I've heard people talk about is stash space. People always want more stash space. I'm not going to argue that the stash has enough space, but let's imagine a world where they add more stash space. Let's pretend we have twice as much stash space! Hey, now everyone is happy, right? Well, soon enough the same people are going to be complaining again that they need more stash space. It can be argued both ways. Maybe instead of more stash space you learn how to conserve stash space, and prioritize what items you want to keep. It can go both ways, and the solution will eventually just bring out more problems.
Issue number two. "There's only one build". Of course there's only one build. It's the best build. Welcome to the world of min-maxing. This isn't an issue with the game so much as an issue with the player base. There are SO MANY T6 viable build. I know there are. I've played with Archon Wizards and Strafe Demon Hunters. T6 is the difficultly for farming and these builds can do that! Of course there is a best build. It would be impossible to truly balance two equal builds. Here is an example of when two builds can coexist. M6 Teslacoil for greater rift climbing and M6 FrostFire for farming. Now in this example they both use M6. If I can harken back to the old days of Infinity Archon and Critical Mass. That's two builds living viably at the same time, but with different uses. Even the barb sees some WW play, Raekor play for high Grifts, and leap barb. (Dunno what it's called). Anyone can figure out their own build to play T6, there are so many fun builds to be played that just don't cut it at the higher Grifts. And that's the distinction between the best build and all the other builds. As long as we can find the best build, the players trying to do the absolute best will find that build. It's completely unreasonable to bitch to the devs that they haven't balanced the game when really the players are the ones hyper focusing on a singular style of play. There are other viable builds for T6, but they won't climb the grift ladder like M6 and Raekor do.
Issue number 3. "Lack of end game content". Diablo 3 is a game about items. End game content is finding the BEST items. It's not about a fantastic story or beautiful landscapes. It's a dungeon crawler that focuses on loot. Finding loot is the only point. If you're not content farming for the next gear piece, I cannot imagine Diablo 3 is the game for you. Personally I find farming the most boring thing in this earth, but I always played with friends. My friends all stopped playing, so I joined a clan. I've spent more time in Diablo 3 over the past two weeks than I have in a long time. This is because I am having fun finding loot, and I'm talking with all my clan buddies in Mumble. It's twofold in entertainment. Half the issue is the players asking for more stuff to do rather than finding new stuff to do. I used to have budget build competitions with my buddies when the AH was around. "Who can solo MP10 Diablo the fastest with only 1M gold". That's just one example of many where we found interesting things to do in the game without playing the game the original way.
"Patches take forever". "We all want this why isn't this in the game" and most commonly "the devs don't listen to us". Well I'm here to tell you that D3 has a level of execution that is more than above par. This game is the most polished piece of shit you have ever seen. We wanted identify all, they gave it to us, but they implemented a solid feature in the game. It fit with the lore, with the look of the game, and it kept the game immersive. The same goes to things like Rift and Grift keystones, Kadala, salvage all, The Mystic, Uber Bosses, Bounties, moving between acts, adventure mode, torment levels. These are all things that are apart of the game, fit with the game design and made the game better. Second, everyone who has ever coded a game is allowed to complain about patches taking a long time. Those who haven't, your opinion is based off the concept that patches can be grinded out easily and with speed. Diablo 3 in its current form is all about finesse and polish. And I think the devs are trying to stick with that. No sloppy features that turn out to be broken, little to no issues with anything in the game code. As for the final complaint about the devs not listening, you're just factually incorrect. I'm certain they listen, but if you consider some of the things the people on the forums complain about, you'd realize that in a realistic sense, most of them are absolutely ridiculous.
I want to harken back to Act 2 Inferno within the first month of Diablo 3's existence. If you complained about the hell of trying to get past those bugs, remember that the devs fixed that. Remember never finding a gear upgrade? Remember inferno not being hard enough so they introduced Monster Power? Remember the thousands of people clamoring for a ladder? Remember the hundreds of things that the devs have actually fixed? The game is actually in a solid place right now. The devs have made a lot of changes for this game.
In summary, I want to remind everyone that Blizzard has roughly ZERO obligation to keep their game updated. They could just be working towards a second expansion and leave the game as it is. But they don't. They try to keep the player base happy and are continually patching the game and adding new content. Instead of complaining that the devs aren't doing anything, or aren't interested in the players or their game, just think about everything that they have done. They've implemented so many things for the game.
Moral of the story, stop being self entitled assholes. You bought Diablo 3 and Reaper of Souls. Not greater rifts, not uber bosses, not any of the patches. Those are all bonus. They're extra. Next time you go to complain, remember that you have done nothing for this game. They have.
In summary, I want to remind everyone that Blizzard has roughly ZERO obligation to keep their game updated. They could just be working towards a second expansion and leave the game as it is. But they don't.
Everything is well said and I agree except quote. I think that they do need to upgrade and fix stuff just to polish game to fit needs for future expansion
Beside, of course, I think they do care about community and want to help us enjoy the game
they promised AH. they gave it to us then they removed it. thats like them promising a new class called crusader then deciding NAH and deleting the crusader class. or its like them promising to add seasons then, after the pathetic excuse of an attempt at seasons like season 1 (or i guess its more like the beta of seasons), they just scrap seasons altogether.
i know everyone bitched and moaned about ah, but that really is what it comes down to. they promised a feature, gave it to us, then decided to remove it.
back to your stuff:
stash space. i agree that people will always want more stash space, but the fact of the matter is that they keep doing retroactive changes to items even though they say they dont like doing it. that forces players to keep stuff that might be useful down the line. when lightning monk was the go to build, the players who kept the useless swk set got a leg up when blizz retroactively changed it. who used firebird until EVERYONE used it? those items took A LOT of stash space. so, if they stopped messing with old stuff and focused on new content, i wouldnt have to keep old stuff that might someday be useful. on top of that, i dont think its too much to ask for 1 stash tab per character class. i'd be ok with reducing each existing tab by 1/4 then adding a few tabs altogether. this is a net gain in stash space but not as much as just adding more and more tabs.
theres only one build. yes there will always be a handful of best builds, but thats what it should be: a handful. not one. mara (ldh is gone in new patch), firebird, raekor, swk, akkhan (condemn and stampede are pretty different but its weak that they use the same set). wd has good variation. you cant really argue that there are many t6 viable builds because t6 is simply not the benchmark difficulty anymore. the multiple t6 viable builds are viable because t6 is a joke after the addition of leg gems not because the builds themselves are good. if you shift the benchmark to t1 or even normal, then all of a sudden there are even more viable builds! the benchmark is high greater rifts, and thats because blizzard deemed it so.
lack of end game content. yes its about the loot. but new ways to get the loot wouldnt hurt. greater rift loot drop should probably be tweaked a little bit. they are already going to make getting furnace and etc a little easier (long overdue). but honestly, some kind of a weekly or monthly (plus special holiday ones) rotating event wouldnt hurt. or flesh out pvp and make some kind of an item reward for that. d3 is def missing end game content and there are multiple reasons. it even ties into the only one build per class thing. when your character is geared out in the one viable spec, then its impossible to find loot. your million gold game? GONE because ah is gone. personally, i like achievements (even though most ppl dont). so now that i dont want to grind for gear, i grind for achievements. sadly though, the seasonal achievements are the EXACT SAME as the regular ones. sure there are seasonal only ones and conquests (these were actually great), but they were few and far between. its definitely getting harder to make your own end game content.
patches take forever. they really do. ptr is up for so long, and yet there are still bugs left and right. the decision to release the patch DURING season 1 is INSANE. and they gave NO good excuse for it too! they really gave up on season 1 (lol at the exp exploit), but theres no reason to mess it up further. patch 3 weeks before end of season? why? because they didnt want to have some awkward s2 players dont get new items for a few weeks situation? easy. delay start of s2 for 3 weeks instead of screwing up s1 even more. furthermore, please explain to me why people who break ToS are not banned? streamers with recorded video proof exploiting their faces off were not banned. half my clan bots all day and night and no one gets banned. technically autocast and macros and the weird overlays highlighting items and etc should be banned too. i never understood why multiboxing was deemed "safe." i can only assume its because blizzard wants more cash moneys by people playing 4 accounts, but enough ppl have quit diablo that getting accounts from friends or online is not difficult (and none of that money goes to blizz). seriously. on my swk monk, keeping track of taeguk's 3 seconds is HARD when youre thinking about all the other dangers of GRs like density, spirit upkeep, hp, etc. im not complaining about that its great. im complaining about people with autocast who dont have to think about the drawbacks of taeguk, but they dont get banned.
In summary, I want to remind everyone that Blizzard has roughly ZERO obligation to keep their game updated. They could just be working towards a second expansion and leave the game as it is. But they don't.
As someone else has already mentioned above, this isn't quite true. Any company that releases a product has an obligation that that product isn't broken. You can get into arguments about what exactly is 'broken' and what isn't, but under almost any definition of broken D3 has many things that are broken, and they are obligated to them to fix them.
Secondly, let's not kid ourselves for a second that Blizz is giving out content for "free" or out of the goodness of their heart - and I'm not being critical when I say this, since no company does this and they're not required to. But there is a clear and definitive financial calculation gone into to keeping a game's content up-to-date - it's the financial gain they receive by maintaining their reputation (which, honestly, has suffered a bit due to D3), future sales etc etc.
Yes the game is fun, and it has some amazing potential. But it also has a tremendous amount to be critical of.
----the most obvious is the box has trade clearly printed on it. all about the rmah. isnt that false advertisement? personally i dont care too much, but there is one reason. if someone goes out today and buys d3 off the shelf, it has a known LIE printed on the cover. I dont see blizzard sending out new boxes...
----out of touch and arrogant devs. youve never watched one of the devs videos? they are soooo happy they have made it all the way to grift 18. they think pigsticker is a great dagger. their profiles were published (and quickly removed) and their characters were scrubs. these devs can barely even put together a T6 viable build, but they tell their customers that they "are doing it wrong" and bite the hands that feed them.
----hollow promises. I would never play pvp if they introduced it (I have only played arena once and I dont care for it), but blizzard has repeatedly promised it.
----you build a character and next week they change their "philosophy" and nerf the abilities. there isnt enough storage to save every legendary cuz they may nerf your toon into the ground tomorrow, but you just about have to save everything or you may not be able to play your toon come this tuesday... this is the reason that pisses me off.
----no offline mode. pffft. let me have an offline character and make it ineligible for the leaderboards. make it so I cant sell or trade anything that character touches. there is no excuse for 100% online in a single player game. NONE.
----DISCONNECTS. the reason hardcore is like russian roulette. I dont play hardcore for that heartache.
I do like the game and it is a lot of fun in general, but there many reasons to gripe about it. the list is a lot longer than this abbreviated list.
As someone else has already mentioned above, this isn't quite true. Any company that releases a product has an obligation that that product isn't broken. You can get into arguments about what exactly is 'broken' and what isn't, but under almost any definition of broken D3 has many things that are broken, and they are obligated to them to fix them.
Many things that are broken? Really?
I assume your definition of "broken" is "I think that this particular game design decision could have been better"?
Or "I think this feature should be added"?
Or are there really "many things" in Diablo 3 that simply do not work? And somehow I've missed them despite playing many hundreds of hours over the last couple of years?
if you sold more than 12m (im just pulling the numbers out of my head but you get the point) copies of D3 and they basically 80% of that stopped playing there's definitely something wrong. it may not be "broken" by your standards but we just cant ignore that there are a bunch of things that are lacking
As someone else has already mentioned above, this isn't quite true. Any company that releases a product has an obligation that that product isn't broken. You can get into arguments about what exactly is 'broken' and what isn't, but under almost any definition of broken D3 has many things that are broken, and they are obligated to them to fix them.
Many things that are broken? Really?
I assume your definition of "broken" is "I think that this particular game design decision could have been better"?
Or "I think this feature should be added"?
Or are there really "many things" in Diablo 3 that simply do not work? And somehow I've missed them despite playing many hundreds of hours over the last couple of years?
As I said, we can debate what "broken" means. It's perhaps a bad term, but I'm using it as a short-hand. Don't take it too literally. Likewise, for example, you use the phrase "simply do not work". Well, what does that mean? Of course the game works - I install it on my computer and it runs. So that's "working", right? So it doesn't matter if a game is objectively awful in almost every way, as long as when I install it and then try to play it it doesn't give me a BSOD?
To use a simple example: regular gems. Regular gems, by almost anyone's sensible definition, are broken in D3. They do not do what they're intended to do, which is to provide some sort of viable choice to the player about how they want to play. And Blizz acknowledges this. This is just one of many, many examples, some more extreme, some less extreme.
D3 vanilla was 'broken'. We all know this. In fact this was completely acknowledged by Blizz, hence the dramatic overhaul that was RoS. Was Ros an improvement? Yes. Did it "FIX" everything?? Absolutely not. Did it bring in it's own problems? Of course.
As I said, we can debate what "broken" means. It's perhaps a bad term, but I'm using it as a short-hand. Don't take it too literally. Likewise, for example, you use the phrase "simply do not work". Well, what does that mean? Of course the game works - I install it on my computer and it runs. So that's "working", right? So it doesn't matter if a game is objectively awful in almost every way, as long as when I install it and then try to play it it doesn't give me a BSOD?
Well, you said "Any company that releases a product has an obligation that that product isn't broken", and yes, I do think if you're talking about company's obligations, they do extend to producing software that can be installed and run. Not software that you personally think is great.
To use a simple example: regular gems. Regular gems, by almost anyone's sensible definition, are broken in D3. They do not do what they're intended to do, which is to provide some sort of viable choice to the player about how they want to play. And Blizz acknowledges this. This is just one of many, many examples, some more extreme, some less extreme.
Regular gems - in weapons, at least - are crap, no doubt about it. And it is bewildering that this poor balance, which has existed forever, has not been fixed.
But "broken"? Just because emeralds are the only viable choice for weapons? Come on. Every gem serves a purpose. Maybe not in weapons, but in armour slots, it's a choice between primary stat, resist all and vitality. In helmet, it's a choice between life and cooldown. Every gem functions as advertised and every gem has a use.
It's simply insane to describe gem balance as an example of a product being so broken and unfit for purpose that a company has an obligation to fix it!!
D3 vanilla was 'broken'. We all know this. In fact this was completely acknowledged by Blizz, hence the dramatic overhaul that was RoS. Was Ros an improvement? Yes. Did it "FIX" everything?? Absolutely not. Did it bring in it's own problems? Of course.
We "all know this"? I know no such thing. I played vanilla for hundreds of hours and had a fantastic time. It was the game of the year for me. I didn't consider it even remotely "broken".
For sure, RoS brought a bunch of fantastic improvements and additions (as you would hope an expansion would do), and made the game even better, and I have played hundreds of hours more since and had an even better time.
I think you're being quite hysterical in acting as though game design decisions that aren't to your taste are equivalent to a product being broken and unfit for sale.
@OP: Great post. I think the formatting could've been a bit easier on the eyes, which might have resulted in even more people reading it... but in essence, I agree to what you say. All of it except for one point: stash space. Sure, if they double it some people (including me) will still complain. But the current amount of stash space is just a joke. We have 6 classes, but only 5 tabs of stash space. Then add rift keys, trial keys, greater rift keys, crafting materials, gems, uber machine keys, organs, legendary gems, and other misc stuff (legendary potions, vanity items like CE wings, ...) to the mix and that already fills up 1-2 stash pages. Eventually, you have about half a tab per class; but even if you keep only one of each legendary item with a special "legendary affix", it takes up about 1.5 stash pages (varies per class). This game is about loot - and using this loot to try out new builds; but that's impossible if you cannot keep items but have to decide whether or not to ever use the specific item that just dropped in a build. Add to that the fact that Blizzard told us mutliple times to hang on to our sets because they will get changed (for example, happened before the SWK set and Firebird set were changed). If you play all (or almost all) classes and you're interested in trying out new or different builds, and not just the one cookie cutter build, then stash space is currently not enough. Not by any stretch of imagination - it's a joke.
However, I agree with everything else you've said.
To the other posters... RoS is not broken, in my opinion, and I have a hard time seeing how you can argue that the game is broken. There might be imbalances (barb/DH too strong) which are being fixed tomorrow. There are occasional bugs which are usually hotfixed within a few days (all the exploits). There are annoyances (low density in some rifts) which are being reviewed all the time and again, fixed tomorrow. But none of this qualifies as "broken"; bugs happen in any game and they're always fixed in due time. And it's close to impossible for a game to achieve perfect balance - some games seem to have achieved this, but only because they're being played by a few hundred people for a few hours. Accumulated game time in Diablo 3 probably goes into billions of hours of players killing stuff, and any slight imbalance is being magnified like crazy because of that.
Also, stop arguing that because something was advertised on the box of this game 3 years ago you're entitled to get it. That's just wrong. The game was broken because of the AH (everyone was playing the AH, not the game; the game was not the source of loot anymore). Arguing that you want to bring back the AH just because it was on the box of the game you bought is nonsense. The only valid argument for a feature that was promised and never delivered is PvP - I don't like PvP and don't need it ever, but I feel with those that are desiring a true PvP mode. Sadly, I don't see how they can introduce a true PvP mode anytime soon, simply because it would break the rest of the game. The AH, however, had to go, and Josh gave perfect explanation at Blizzcon why not just the AH, but even more general trading will not make a comeback. It's the best for the game and the players' experience.
The game is in a pretty good state, and most of the things that bother me are being fixed tomorrow (or rather in two days for me on EU). I'm so looking forward to 2.1.2, can't wait. I've said it before... if you really think the game is "broken" or missing "content" or other important features, there's a high probability you're simply misunderstanding what Diablo 3 is. It's not an MMORPG. It's not a subscription-based game. It's not a PvP game. It's not your tool for gaining money through shady business practices. It's not an e-sports game. And its main focus is not competitiveness (whether it's PvP or PvE), as we learned in the developer's interview in December. It's also not Diablo 2 HD. Diablo 3 is a casual-focused hack'n'slay action RPG, and in this particular genre it's unmatched and completely living up to its expectations. If you do not identify with any of those terms, there are other games for you (PoE, WoW, and so on).
ros was a vast improvement and fixed a lot of issues. d3 does seem to be going in the right direction, but it has taken what, 3 years from its launch to get on the right path?
if you look at my profile, you will see that i play and have for a while. not religiously and hours on end every day, but I play. maybe the devs have decided to stay the course now. I dont know if they have decided, but we can hope.
I did already write a post here but I need to point out two problems that I personally do not have problem with, but most of my friends left the game and will not return even on 2.1.2 because 2 simple reasons:
1) endgame items do not actually play endgame content (Grifts). why ? well because at some point, 35+ too much stuff one shot you, but hey, you have endgame gear ? So how is that enjoyable play if you get one shot buy some white archer that will not even give any time progress when you kill it ? So in order to even play higher Grifts you are forced to do reason number 2
2) In order to play higher Grifts you need to have some support class. well many people do not want to play support class, mandatory is tiki WD, they hate Grifts because monster damage is so hight that they FORCE you to have supp wd in a party
I personally do not have a problem with that since I have supp monk+wd, almost perfect endgame dh, wizz, jade/pet wd, barb and actually even I am getting tired of Grifts becuse even when my friends come online and we decide to play Grifts, I get to play tiki WD because what ever we try, we get impossible gameplay, at least for them, if I ger reakor bark, I do not have problems but my friends die, and they have good gear and 550+ paragons...
So I think they really should cap dmg at some grift point,
Also damn trials, in addition to trials, they should let you play the last Grift level that you finished on time, for new toons, let them play only from lvl 1 for the first time and make their progress.
I look at destiny, i see the same pattern : they like a game so much that they cant stop complaining. And shit, destiny had a far more successful launch (0 server issues). "The lack of endgame" they say, i think this is the curse of the decade.
Also, stop arguing that because something was advertised on the box of this game 3 years ago you're entitled to get it. That's just wrong. The game was broken because of the AH (everyone was playing the AH, not the game; the game was not the source of loot anymore). Arguing that you want to bring back the AH just because it was on the box of the game you bought is nonsense. The only valid argument for a feature that was promised and never delivered is PvP - I don't like PvP and don't need it ever, but I feel with those that are desiring a true PvP mode. Sadly, I don't see how they can introduce a true PvP mode anytime soon, simply because it would break the rest of the game. The AH, however, had to go, and Josh gave perfect explanation at Blizzcon why not just the AH, but even more general trading will not make a comeback. It's the best for the game and the players' experience.
let me get this straight. the game was broken because of ah because the game was not the source of loot? are you sure about that? isnt the underlying cause the fact that the game didnt drop usable loot for your character which forced people to the ah?
it seems to me that after they took their sweet ass time fixing drop rates and introducing "smart" loot, that now ah would work. people blamed the ah blindly without realizing the source (here im talking about ah not rmah thats a whole separate issue) of the problem. blizzard blindly listened to appease in an attempt to purge all remnants of the original d3 team. then blizzard fixed the ORIGINAL problem. logic would dictate that after fixing the underlying cause, ah would work.
its not like im saying bring back ah and kill smart loot and nerf leg drop rates to those of d3 launch.
Yes, the game was broken because of the AH - or at least, the AH was one of the reasons for it (among bland sets and legendaries). This was also stated multiple times by the developers, and in particular by both the old game director (Jay Wilson) and the new one (Josh Mosqueira).
"They fixed the drop rates" is correct, but you know why they could fix the drop rates? Because the AH was gone. There's a famous bluepost from the early days of D3, unfortunately the thread isn't online anymore, but in this bluepost Bashiok admitted that the droprates had to be lowered because of the auction house. Also, Blizzard realized that the vast majority of players did not wear items they looted themselves, but items they bought from the auction house. In the end, this resulted in the famous quote "players are playing the auction house, not the game".
For a few thousand gold (the equivalent of drops you got from one single mob!) you were able to get a better item on the auction house than what you were likely to find in a week of continuous playing. And even if a great item dropped, players were not like "oh my god this will make my character better" - but more often the reaction was "awesome, this item is probably worth 200m gold on the AH".
Yes, the auction house was one of the biggest issues in D3V. This might not be true for all players - we know that some liked the AH, maybe just because they liked the trading aspect, or maybe because they made money out of it. However, in the end the AH impacted everyone and made it almost impossible to find upgrades for your character in the game. If we were to remove BoA from items nowadays, it would just be the same. Thankfully, Blizzard realized that - Josh said at Blizzcon (I posted the video in a previous thread if you're interested) that trading is unlikely to come back.
they claim they lowered drop rates for the ah, but i vaguely recall some blizz guy saying they designed the drop rate and progression of d3 to be on a 10 year scale. as in it would take 10 years to get the drops (with auction house) to destroy the original inferno difficulty. im pretty sure that was the fault not that they supposedly slightly altered drop rates for ah. 10 year scale was too far fetched and ridiculous. if they designed it on a 2 year scale and then dropped drop rates for the ah, you'd have a solid argument. the fact that they worked on a 10 year scale makes any change to drop rate for ah negligible.
yes i know ah and trading arent coming back, but in the spirit of giving blizz some well deserved criticism, i have to bring it up. obviously the pvp thing would be nice too, but i dont think pvp was printed on the box (dont really remember tbh). pvp was a broken promise. ah was promised, delivered, and then removed because it became a scapegoat for underlying problems for everyone including developers.
like really, it would be like them removing the crusader class after promising it for ros, delivering it, and letting us play a few months w it. id rather find some sweet gear and think oh sweet this is worth 200m on ah than oh another FS.
Diablo 3 gets it's criticism because people expected to get something akin to Diablo 2... A game they would still be playing 10 years down the line but instead they got a game that was just ok... Sure, most of us come back for a few days when a patch hits to take a look but not many stay much longer than that...
Diablo 2 had multiple routes one could take to viably farm in the game be it key runs, torch runs, chaos runs, cave runs, cow runs, council gold runs, andy/mephy runs, baal runs... Every run different and rewarded a different type of loot. This in turn created build diversity in the game because certain builds were able to do certain types of runs better which in turn meant there was no longer just 1 or 2 items for every slot which trumped every other item in the game. This is just one of the many ways Diablo 2 does it better it also has better PvP, more freedom (allowing for player-run events such as the iron maiden game), the gear has more depth via a larger variety of stats, better player interaction, more depth to how loot dropped allowing trading to be possible etc.
What ultimately disappoints me the most about Diablo 3 is that Diablo 2 is 10+ years older and yet does almost everything better. Yes Diablo 2 is considered one of the best games ever made and so it may not be fair to compare Diablo 3 to it, but Diablo 3 is it's successor and therefore comparing the two and expecting Diablo 3 to live up to it's name is simply unavoidable. If it wasn't for the fact 99% of D2 players are bots/cheaters then even with the dated graphics and less-smooth gameplay I would choose to play D2 over D3 every time.
let me get this straight. the game was broken because of ah because the game was not the source of loot? are you sure about that? isnt the underlying cause the fact that the game didnt drop usable loot for your character which forced people to the ah?
it seems to me that after they took their sweet ass time fixing drop rates and introducing "smart" loot, that now ah would work. people blamed the ah blindly without realizing the source (here im talking about ah not rmah thats a whole separate issue) of the problem. blizzard blindly listened to appease in an attempt to purge all remnants of the original d3 team. then blizzard fixed the ORIGINAL problem. logic would dictate that after fixing the underlying cause, ah would work.
Nah. Smart loot + AH would have suffered from exactly the same problems, in exactly the same degree, as old loot + AH did.
The problem is simply that with millions of players selling their unwanted crap on the AH, there will always be items from the top 0.1% of drops selling for a few thousand gold. Top 0.1% sounds impressive, but with a thousand players its commonplace, and with a million, there's an incredible flood of them. And the best items on the AH will always be better than anything you have ever seen drop, or ever will. Unless you're the thousand-to-one unique snowflake that gets one of these freak drops yourself. And even then.. AH will have the best stuff for every other slot.
Smart loot would bump the definition of "top 0.1%" up a bit, by ripping all the "quiver with strength" crap out of the loot table. But it will make absolutely zero difference to the underlying problem.
yes thats the point of the ah, and that isnt the problem of it. the problem was that it was the ONLY way to get usable items. the point of ah and trading and etc is to get BETTER items. there isnt anything wrong with using the ah to get IMPROVEMENTS if you regularly find usable loot. my many near perfect akkhan pieces and blades of prophecy should be able to magically convert into a furnace instead of just being FS's. should the AH be the only place thats remotely possible to get a furnace? no. furnace drop rate is shit and needs to be raised. but ah should be A place i can magically convert items into other items (possibly through a median called gold). yes im basically saying bring back trading via gold in a safe organized fashion. possibly lower current drop rates A LITTLE (oh noes cue the pitchforks and etc) for more common items. my sader has found 4 witching hours. other people have found 3 furnaces and possibly no witching hours.
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So, I want to take a few seconds and argue against a few points that are commonly brought up in regards to Diablo 3's state of affairs. There are some complaints I hear people whining about day in and day out, and I want to address these in a realistic sense. I fully believe that each person is entitled to their opinion, so feel free to discuss my points in a civil and logical way. If this thread goes the way of "you're stupid cause I say so", I kindly request that the mods lock this thread down. I'm attacking the complaints, and in the final paragraph, I'll be attacking all the complainers.
A few notes before I get started:
I am bias, I love this game.
I've been playing since launch day, with the server errors and timeouts for the first 6-10 hours after the game launched.
I have about 900 hours in game, but about 600 of those were before paragon.
Let's jump right into it. The first complaint I've heard people talk about is stash space. People always want more stash space. I'm not going to argue that the stash has enough space, but let's imagine a world where they add more stash space. Let's pretend we have twice as much stash space! Hey, now everyone is happy, right? Well, soon enough the same people are going to be complaining again that they need more stash space. It can be argued both ways. Maybe instead of more stash space you learn how to conserve stash space, and prioritize what items you want to keep. It can go both ways, and the solution will eventually just bring out more problems.
Issue number two. "There's only one build". Of course there's only one build. It's the best build. Welcome to the world of min-maxing. This isn't an issue with the game so much as an issue with the player base. There are SO MANY T6 viable build. I know there are. I've played with Archon Wizards and Strafe Demon Hunters. T6 is the difficultly for farming and these builds can do that! Of course there is a best build. It would be impossible to truly balance two equal builds. Here is an example of when two builds can coexist. M6 Teslacoil for greater rift climbing and M6 FrostFire for farming. Now in this example they both use M6. If I can harken back to the old days of Infinity Archon and Critical Mass. That's two builds living viably at the same time, but with different uses. Even the barb sees some WW play, Raekor play for high Grifts, and leap barb. (Dunno what it's called). Anyone can figure out their own build to play T6, there are so many fun builds to be played that just don't cut it at the higher Grifts. And that's the distinction between the best build and all the other builds. As long as we can find the best build, the players trying to do the absolute best will find that build. It's completely unreasonable to bitch to the devs that they haven't balanced the game when really the players are the ones hyper focusing on a singular style of play. There are other viable builds for T6, but they won't climb the grift ladder like M6 and Raekor do.
Issue number 3. "Lack of end game content". Diablo 3 is a game about items. End game content is finding the BEST items. It's not about a fantastic story or beautiful landscapes. It's a dungeon crawler that focuses on loot. Finding loot is the only point. If you're not content farming for the next gear piece, I cannot imagine Diablo 3 is the game for you. Personally I find farming the most boring thing in this earth, but I always played with friends. My friends all stopped playing, so I joined a clan. I've spent more time in Diablo 3 over the past two weeks than I have in a long time. This is because I am having fun finding loot, and I'm talking with all my clan buddies in Mumble. It's twofold in entertainment. Half the issue is the players asking for more stuff to do rather than finding new stuff to do. I used to have budget build competitions with my buddies when the AH was around. "Who can solo MP10 Diablo the fastest with only 1M gold". That's just one example of many where we found interesting things to do in the game without playing the game the original way.
"Patches take forever". "We all want this why isn't this in the game" and most commonly "the devs don't listen to us". Well I'm here to tell you that D3 has a level of execution that is more than above par. This game is the most polished piece of shit you have ever seen. We wanted identify all, they gave it to us, but they implemented a solid feature in the game. It fit with the lore, with the look of the game, and it kept the game immersive. The same goes to things like Rift and Grift keystones, Kadala, salvage all, The Mystic, Uber Bosses, Bounties, moving between acts, adventure mode, torment levels. These are all things that are apart of the game, fit with the game design and made the game better. Second, everyone who has ever coded a game is allowed to complain about patches taking a long time. Those who haven't, your opinion is based off the concept that patches can be grinded out easily and with speed. Diablo 3 in its current form is all about finesse and polish. And I think the devs are trying to stick with that. No sloppy features that turn out to be broken, little to no issues with anything in the game code. As for the final complaint about the devs not listening, you're just factually incorrect. I'm certain they listen, but if you consider some of the things the people on the forums complain about, you'd realize that in a realistic sense, most of them are absolutely ridiculous.
I want to harken back to Act 2 Inferno within the first month of Diablo 3's existence. If you complained about the hell of trying to get past those bugs, remember that the devs fixed that. Remember never finding a gear upgrade? Remember inferno not being hard enough so they introduced Monster Power? Remember the thousands of people clamoring for a ladder? Remember the hundreds of things that the devs have actually fixed? The game is actually in a solid place right now. The devs have made a lot of changes for this game.
In summary, I want to remind everyone that Blizzard has roughly ZERO obligation to keep their game updated. They could just be working towards a second expansion and leave the game as it is. But they don't. They try to keep the player base happy and are continually patching the game and adding new content. Instead of complaining that the devs aren't doing anything, or aren't interested in the players or their game, just think about everything that they have done. They've implemented so many things for the game.
Moral of the story, stop being self entitled assholes. You bought Diablo 3 and Reaper of Souls. Not greater rifts, not uber bosses, not any of the patches. Those are all bonus. They're extra. Next time you go to complain, remember that you have done nothing for this game. They have.
Beside, of course, I think they do care about community and want to help us enjoy the game
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/iGGi-2191/hero/87768679
i know everyone bitched and moaned about ah, but that really is what it comes down to. they promised a feature, gave it to us, then decided to remove it.
back to your stuff:
stash space. i agree that people will always want more stash space, but the fact of the matter is that they keep doing retroactive changes to items even though they say they dont like doing it. that forces players to keep stuff that might be useful down the line. when lightning monk was the go to build, the players who kept the useless swk set got a leg up when blizz retroactively changed it. who used firebird until EVERYONE used it? those items took A LOT of stash space. so, if they stopped messing with old stuff and focused on new content, i wouldnt have to keep old stuff that might someday be useful. on top of that, i dont think its too much to ask for 1 stash tab per character class. i'd be ok with reducing each existing tab by 1/4 then adding a few tabs altogether. this is a net gain in stash space but not as much as just adding more and more tabs.
theres only one build. yes there will always be a handful of best builds, but thats what it should be: a handful. not one. mara (ldh is gone in new patch), firebird, raekor, swk, akkhan (condemn and stampede are pretty different but its weak that they use the same set). wd has good variation. you cant really argue that there are many t6 viable builds because t6 is simply not the benchmark difficulty anymore. the multiple t6 viable builds are viable because t6 is a joke after the addition of leg gems not because the builds themselves are good. if you shift the benchmark to t1 or even normal, then all of a sudden there are even more viable builds! the benchmark is high greater rifts, and thats because blizzard deemed it so.
lack of end game content. yes its about the loot. but new ways to get the loot wouldnt hurt. greater rift loot drop should probably be tweaked a little bit. they are already going to make getting furnace and etc a little easier (long overdue). but honestly, some kind of a weekly or monthly (plus special holiday ones) rotating event wouldnt hurt. or flesh out pvp and make some kind of an item reward for that. d3 is def missing end game content and there are multiple reasons. it even ties into the only one build per class thing. when your character is geared out in the one viable spec, then its impossible to find loot. your million gold game? GONE because ah is gone. personally, i like achievements (even though most ppl dont). so now that i dont want to grind for gear, i grind for achievements. sadly though, the seasonal achievements are the EXACT SAME as the regular ones. sure there are seasonal only ones and conquests (these were actually great), but they were few and far between. its definitely getting harder to make your own end game content.
patches take forever. they really do. ptr is up for so long, and yet there are still bugs left and right. the decision to release the patch DURING season 1 is INSANE. and they gave NO good excuse for it too! they really gave up on season 1 (lol at the exp exploit), but theres no reason to mess it up further. patch 3 weeks before end of season? why? because they didnt want to have some awkward s2 players dont get new items for a few weeks situation? easy. delay start of s2 for 3 weeks instead of screwing up s1 even more. furthermore, please explain to me why people who break ToS are not banned? streamers with recorded video proof exploiting their faces off were not banned. half my clan bots all day and night and no one gets banned. technically autocast and macros and the weird overlays highlighting items and etc should be banned too. i never understood why multiboxing was deemed "safe." i can only assume its because blizzard wants more cash moneys by people playing 4 accounts, but enough ppl have quit diablo that getting accounts from friends or online is not difficult (and none of that money goes to blizz). seriously. on my swk monk, keeping track of taeguk's 3 seconds is HARD when youre thinking about all the other dangers of GRs like density, spirit upkeep, hp, etc. im not complaining about that its great. im complaining about people with autocast who dont have to think about the drawbacks of taeguk, but they dont get banned.
As someone else has already mentioned above, this isn't quite true. Any company that releases a product has an obligation that that product isn't broken. You can get into arguments about what exactly is 'broken' and what isn't, but under almost any definition of broken D3 has many things that are broken, and they are obligated to them to fix them.
Secondly, let's not kid ourselves for a second that Blizz is giving out content for "free" or out of the goodness of their heart - and I'm not being critical when I say this, since no company does this and they're not required to. But there is a clear and definitive financial calculation gone into to keeping a game's content up-to-date - it's the financial gain they receive by maintaining their reputation (which, honestly, has suffered a bit due to D3), future sales etc etc.
Yes the game is fun, and it has some amazing potential. But it also has a tremendous amount to be critical of.
----out of touch and arrogant devs. youve never watched one of the devs videos? they are soooo happy they have made it all the way to grift 18. they think pigsticker is a great dagger. their profiles were published (and quickly removed) and their characters were scrubs. these devs can barely even put together a T6 viable build, but they tell their customers that they "are doing it wrong" and bite the hands that feed them.
----hollow promises. I would never play pvp if they introduced it (I have only played arena once and I dont care for it), but blizzard has repeatedly promised it.
----you build a character and next week they change their "philosophy" and nerf the abilities. there isnt enough storage to save every legendary cuz they may nerf your toon into the ground tomorrow, but you just about have to save everything or you may not be able to play your toon come this tuesday... this is the reason that pisses me off.
----no offline mode. pffft. let me have an offline character and make it ineligible for the leaderboards. make it so I cant sell or trade anything that character touches. there is no excuse for 100% online in a single player game. NONE.
----DISCONNECTS. the reason hardcore is like russian roulette. I dont play hardcore for that heartache.
I do like the game and it is a lot of fun in general, but there many reasons to gripe about it. the list is a lot longer than this abbreviated list.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pantherdane-1591/hero/39933784
I assume your definition of "broken" is "I think that this particular game design decision could have been better"?
Or "I think this feature should be added"?
Or are there really "many things" in Diablo 3 that simply do not work? And somehow I've missed them despite playing many hundreds of hours over the last couple of years?
To use a simple example: regular gems. Regular gems, by almost anyone's sensible definition, are broken in D3. They do not do what they're intended to do, which is to provide some sort of viable choice to the player about how they want to play. And Blizz acknowledges this. This is just one of many, many examples, some more extreme, some less extreme.
D3 vanilla was 'broken'. We all know this. In fact this was completely acknowledged by Blizz, hence the dramatic overhaul that was RoS. Was Ros an improvement? Yes. Did it "FIX" everything?? Absolutely not. Did it bring in it's own problems? Of course.
Regular gems - in weapons, at least - are crap, no doubt about it. And it is bewildering that this poor balance, which has existed forever, has not been fixed.
But "broken"? Just because emeralds are the only viable choice for weapons? Come on. Every gem serves a purpose. Maybe not in weapons, but in armour slots, it's a choice between primary stat, resist all and vitality. In helmet, it's a choice between life and cooldown. Every gem functions as advertised and every gem has a use.
It's simply insane to describe gem balance as an example of a product being so broken and unfit for purpose that a company has an obligation to fix it!!
We "all know this"? I know no such thing. I played vanilla for hundreds of hours and had a fantastic time. It was the game of the year for me. I didn't consider it even remotely "broken".
For sure, RoS brought a bunch of fantastic improvements and additions (as you would hope an expansion would do), and made the game even better, and I have played hundreds of hours more since and had an even better time.
I think you're being quite hysterical in acting as though game design decisions that aren't to your taste are equivalent to a product being broken and unfit for sale.
However, I agree with everything else you've said.
To the other posters... RoS is not broken, in my opinion, and I have a hard time seeing how you can argue that the game is broken. There might be imbalances (barb/DH too strong) which are being fixed tomorrow. There are occasional bugs which are usually hotfixed within a few days (all the exploits). There are annoyances (low density in some rifts) which are being reviewed all the time and again, fixed tomorrow. But none of this qualifies as "broken"; bugs happen in any game and they're always fixed in due time. And it's close to impossible for a game to achieve perfect balance - some games seem to have achieved this, but only because they're being played by a few hundred people for a few hours. Accumulated game time in Diablo 3 probably goes into billions of hours of players killing stuff, and any slight imbalance is being magnified like crazy because of that.
Also, stop arguing that because something was advertised on the box of this game 3 years ago you're entitled to get it. That's just wrong. The game was broken because of the AH (everyone was playing the AH, not the game; the game was not the source of loot anymore). Arguing that you want to bring back the AH just because it was on the box of the game you bought is nonsense. The only valid argument for a feature that was promised and never delivered is PvP - I don't like PvP and don't need it ever, but I feel with those that are desiring a true PvP mode. Sadly, I don't see how they can introduce a true PvP mode anytime soon, simply because it would break the rest of the game. The AH, however, had to go, and Josh gave perfect explanation at Blizzcon why not just the AH, but even more general trading will not make a comeback. It's the best for the game and the players' experience.
The game is in a pretty good state, and most of the things that bother me are being fixed tomorrow (or rather in two days for me on EU). I'm so looking forward to 2.1.2, can't wait. I've said it before... if you really think the game is "broken" or missing "content" or other important features, there's a high probability you're simply misunderstanding what Diablo 3 is. It's not an MMORPG. It's not a subscription-based game. It's not a PvP game. It's not your tool for gaining money through shady business practices. It's not an e-sports game. And its main focus is not competitiveness (whether it's PvP or PvE), as we learned in the developer's interview in December. It's also not Diablo 2 HD. Diablo 3 is a casual-focused hack'n'slay action RPG, and in this particular genre it's unmatched and completely living up to its expectations. If you do not identify with any of those terms, there are other games for you (PoE, WoW, and so on).
if you look at my profile, you will see that i play and have for a while. not religiously and hours on end every day, but I play. maybe the devs have decided to stay the course now. I dont know if they have decided, but we can hope.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pantherdane-1591/hero/39933784
1) endgame items do not actually play endgame content (Grifts). why ? well because at some point, 35+ too much stuff one shot you, but hey, you have endgame gear ? So how is that enjoyable play if you get one shot buy some white archer that will not even give any time progress when you kill it ? So in order to even play higher Grifts you are forced to do reason number 2
2) In order to play higher Grifts you need to have some support class. well many people do not want to play support class, mandatory is tiki WD, they hate Grifts because monster damage is so hight that they FORCE you to have supp wd in a party
I personally do not have a problem with that since I have supp monk+wd, almost perfect endgame dh, wizz, jade/pet wd, barb and actually even I am getting tired of Grifts becuse even when my friends come online and we decide to play Grifts, I get to play tiki WD because what ever we try, we get impossible gameplay, at least for them, if I ger reakor bark, I do not have problems but my friends die, and they have good gear and 550+ paragons...
So I think they really should cap dmg at some grift point,
Also damn trials, in addition to trials, they should let you play the last Grift level that you finished on time, for new toons, let them play only from lvl 1 for the first time and make their progress.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/iGGi-2191/hero/87768679
it seems to me that after they took their sweet ass time fixing drop rates and introducing "smart" loot, that now ah would work. people blamed the ah blindly without realizing the source (here im talking about ah not rmah thats a whole separate issue) of the problem. blizzard blindly listened to appease in an attempt to purge all remnants of the original d3 team. then blizzard fixed the ORIGINAL problem. logic would dictate that after fixing the underlying cause, ah would work.
its not like im saying bring back ah and kill smart loot and nerf leg drop rates to those of d3 launch.
Yes, the game was broken because of the AH - or at least, the AH was one of the reasons for it (among bland sets and legendaries). This was also stated multiple times by the developers, and in particular by both the old game director (Jay Wilson) and the new one (Josh Mosqueira).
"They fixed the drop rates" is correct, but you know why they could fix the drop rates? Because the AH was gone. There's a famous bluepost from the early days of D3, unfortunately the thread isn't online anymore, but in this bluepost Bashiok admitted that the droprates had to be lowered because of the auction house. Also, Blizzard realized that the vast majority of players did not wear items they looted themselves, but items they bought from the auction house. In the end, this resulted in the famous quote "players are playing the auction house, not the game".
For a few thousand gold (the equivalent of drops you got from one single mob!) you were able to get a better item on the auction house than what you were likely to find in a week of continuous playing. And even if a great item dropped, players were not like "oh my god this will make my character better" - but more often the reaction was "awesome, this item is probably worth 200m gold on the AH".
Yes, the auction house was one of the biggest issues in D3V. This might not be true for all players - we know that some liked the AH, maybe just because they liked the trading aspect, or maybe because they made money out of it. However, in the end the AH impacted everyone and made it almost impossible to find upgrades for your character in the game. If we were to remove BoA from items nowadays, it would just be the same. Thankfully, Blizzard realized that - Josh said at Blizzcon (I posted the video in a previous thread if you're interested) that trading is unlikely to come back.
yes i know ah and trading arent coming back, but in the spirit of giving blizz some well deserved criticism, i have to bring it up. obviously the pvp thing would be nice too, but i dont think pvp was printed on the box (dont really remember tbh). pvp was a broken promise. ah was promised, delivered, and then removed because it became a scapegoat for underlying problems for everyone including developers.
like really, it would be like them removing the crusader class after promising it for ros, delivering it, and letting us play a few months w it. id rather find some sweet gear and think oh sweet this is worth 200m on ah than oh another FS.
Diablo 2 had multiple routes one could take to viably farm in the game be it key runs, torch runs, chaos runs, cave runs, cow runs, council gold runs, andy/mephy runs, baal runs... Every run different and rewarded a different type of loot. This in turn created build diversity in the game because certain builds were able to do certain types of runs better which in turn meant there was no longer just 1 or 2 items for every slot which trumped every other item in the game. This is just one of the many ways Diablo 2 does it better it also has better PvP, more freedom (allowing for player-run events such as the iron maiden game), the gear has more depth via a larger variety of stats, better player interaction, more depth to how loot dropped allowing trading to be possible etc.
What ultimately disappoints me the most about Diablo 3 is that Diablo 2 is 10+ years older and yet does almost everything better. Yes Diablo 2 is considered one of the best games ever made and so it may not be fair to compare Diablo 3 to it, but Diablo 3 is it's successor and therefore comparing the two and expecting Diablo 3 to live up to it's name is simply unavoidable. If it wasn't for the fact 99% of D2 players are bots/cheaters then even with the dated graphics and less-smooth gameplay I would choose to play D2 over D3 every time.
The problem is simply that with millions of players selling their unwanted crap on the AH, there will always be items from the top 0.1% of drops selling for a few thousand gold. Top 0.1% sounds impressive, but with a thousand players its commonplace, and with a million, there's an incredible flood of them. And the best items on the AH will always be better than anything you have ever seen drop, or ever will. Unless you're the thousand-to-one unique snowflake that gets one of these freak drops yourself. And even then.. AH will have the best stuff for every other slot.
Smart loot would bump the definition of "top 0.1%" up a bit, by ripping all the "quiver with strength" crap out of the loot table. But it will make absolutely zero difference to the underlying problem.