This issue alone will make-or-break the deal for me. If Diablo 3 (or Starcraft 2) ships with overprotective DRM, I may have to pass on this masterpiece.
For those who don't know, lemme give you a quick rundown of DRM.
DRM = Digital Rights Management. Generally, it grants control over your copy of the game to the game creators (in this case, Blizzard). DRM has varying degrees of restriction. Serial keys are a very light (and in my opinion, acceptable) form of DRM; they control who has access to online benefits. Many games today employ copy protection DRM; the original disc works, but CD-Rs do not. EA recently exerted too much control over Spore (and several games preceding it) by restricting the number of times you can install the game ever (currently, I understand the limit to be 5 installs).
I am OK with serial keys. These keys at least somewhat ensure that my copy is my own. Blizzard also uses these to enable/disable access to Battle.net (great for kicking off cheaters/spammers).
I am NOT OK with games that require online validation of my game to play SINGLE PLAYER (such as Portal or Half-Life 2); I am not always near an Internet source (particularly on my laptop), and I want to enjoy something when Internet is not available.
I am also NOT OK with games that install rootkits or other programs that are designed to watch me, watch what programs I run, and report back statistics to the mother ship. SecuROM (EA's favorite DRM choice for many of its games) is the primary offender here.
The primary problem with DRM is that it is designed to stop piracy... but it never succeeds at doing that! Spore was leaked/pirated before it was even released, and it is a very recent game. Blizzard needs to understand that Diablo 3 will be pirated. That is an unfortunate circumstance in today's world, but any precautions should not royally annihilate the paying customer's experience. Today, pirates are enjoying DRM-free (aka hassle-free) copies of Spore, while the customers who actually gave EA real money have to deal with installation limits, SecuROM, etc.
Another big problem with DRM is that big companies have to maintain DRM servers. Microsoft, Sony, Yahoo, and now Wal Mart all sold DRM-locked music until they decided to stop; they were gonna shut down the DRM servers until customers voiced their rage about being unable to transfer that music (or ever download it again); the servers were kept running a bit longer. I don't know about anyone else, but I still have moments of nostalgia where I like to take my ancient copy of Warcraft II, stick it into my computer, and play it (no matter how old they get). If they required DRM servers to be running, they wouldn't work anymore.
DRM essentially changes purchases into rentals. No one can really purchase EA's Spore; people can only rent it as long as EA permits. Meanwhile, again, pirates (the ones who DIDN'T pay for the game) continue enjoying it with no problems.
Blizzard, be gentle with DRM. Don't require the disc to be in the drive. Don't have the game phone home just to play Single Player. Here is the point: the game will get cracked; the game will get pirated... but I will still go out and purchase the game. There are more honest people in the world than EA gives us credit for. I purchased Diablo 2 despite knowing I could have downloaded it illegally. Give value to your paying fans; don't make piracy the more enticing choice.
I think Blizzard has always had measures against piracy without resorting to the DRM stuff.
My biggest concern is that Diablo 3 (or Starcraft 2) will be Blizzard's first major modern release (since more of the world has broadband than when Diablo 2 came out) that doesn't have "natural protections". World of Warcraft connects to servers that Blizzard controls and maintains. WoW doesn't really need DRM because of the inherent nature of how it works: Blizzard offers great service (server maintenance, world creation, etc.) for the money paid.
My other fear is that stakeholders get involved and try to exert unhealthy pressure on the developers. Despite all the evidence against DRM, they shout, "Protect our investment! Use DRM!"
If anything, a no-DRM petition would be far more useful than a plea to change the artistic direction.
Well erm, as long as I remember, they don't care. They will give you a cd-key and that's it because they know the single-player part of the game is not what makes the big majority of the players pay for the game.
So don't worry, I really doubt they will add a drm, not after the big disagrement toward the Drm in spore and all.
Add the fact that Lan is out, lets say you have 0.1% chance to have drm in it.
Well erm, as long as I remember, they don't care. They will give you a cd-key and that's it because they know the single-player part of the game is not what makes the big majority of the players pay for the game.
So don't worry, I really doubt they will add a drm, not after the big disagrement toward the Drm in spore and all.
I really want to believe you. I'm glad Blizzard has a better perspective on the market than other game developers. I just have this dark feeling that some idiot will decide DRM will "boost sales" somehow. I'm scared. T_T
WoW comes with spyware as of patch 2.0.3 and you agree to having it on your computer allowing blizzard to monitor your actions while playing the game. I completely support the move. Basically the ultimate anti-hacker protection.
As for the installation limit, AFAIK you can easily override it by editing your registry. Unless the game requires online registration every time, but Blizzard has never done that. Remember that D1 didn't even have a CD-key? They don't really bother trying to protect their games against piracy nowdays as the main focus of all their franchises is internet play, and it seems to be working well.
most important measure Blizzard took for their games was the need of a valid cd-key to play online. All of the Blizzard games offer some of the best online experiences seen in any game. Its no wonder that people keep buying Warcraft 3 (with FT) for DoTA and Diablo 2 (for... Diablo 2 :P). Besides, a good 80% of the people that download pirated games (as i did myself on occasion) do it to test the game. if its worth it, they purchase. I got convinced of the quality of the Blizzard games long ago, though, so i dont even bother to download those anymore
Too bad EA hasn’t fully embraced trusting its customers more by unbundling DRM and SecuROM. Another blog noted Pete Hines has announced that Fallout 3 will ship with little to no DRM whatsoever because they want to trust their paying customers. See http://www.aeropause.com/2008/10/fallout-3-to-ship-on-pc-minus-drm/
If you want to pressure EA games to unbundle DRM and SecuROM, there’s a campaign that just started to refuse to buy EA games until they remove DRM and SecuROM from their software. Check it out at http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/ea-games-without-drm-and-secu-rom Figure each game costs $50 minimum, and if 500 people sign on, that would be $25,000 in lost revenue. For its loyal customer base, secretly adding DRM and SecuROM in their install is just not the way to treat us.
The three issues are that DRM and SecuRom are being installed without the user realizing it; DRM limits the number of computers you can install it on; and SecuROM has been affecting some people’s computers to the point that they needed to re-format their hard drive and uninstall the game to get their computer returning to normal. And it takes just a minute to sign up. You can even sign anonymously. -----------------------
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
This issue alone will make-or-break the deal for me. If Diablo 3 (or Starcraft 2) ships with overprotective DRM, I may have to pass on this masterpiece.
For those who don't know, lemme give you a quick rundown of DRM.
DRM = Digital Rights Management. Generally, it grants control over your copy of the game to the game creators (in this case, Blizzard). DRM has varying degrees of restriction. Serial keys are a very light (and in my opinion, acceptable) form of DRM; they control who has access to online benefits. Many games today employ copy protection DRM; the original disc works, but CD-Rs do not. EA recently exerted too much control over Spore (and several games preceding it) by restricting the number of times you can install the game ever (currently, I understand the limit to be 5 installs).
I am OK with serial keys. These keys at least somewhat ensure that my copy is my own. Blizzard also uses these to enable/disable access to Battle.net (great for kicking off cheaters/spammers).
I am NOT OK with games that require online validation of my game to play SINGLE PLAYER (such as Portal or Half-Life 2); I am not always near an Internet source (particularly on my laptop), and I want to enjoy something when Internet is not available.
I am also NOT OK with games that install rootkits or other programs that are designed to watch me, watch what programs I run, and report back statistics to the mother ship. SecuROM (EA's favorite DRM choice for many of its games) is the primary offender here.
The primary problem with DRM is that it is designed to stop piracy... but it never succeeds at doing that! Spore was leaked/pirated before it was even released, and it is a very recent game. Blizzard needs to understand that Diablo 3 will be pirated. That is an unfortunate circumstance in today's world, but any precautions should not royally annihilate the paying customer's experience. Today, pirates are enjoying DRM-free (aka hassle-free) copies of Spore, while the customers who actually gave EA real money have to deal with installation limits, SecuROM, etc.
Another big problem with DRM is that big companies have to maintain DRM servers. Microsoft, Sony, Yahoo, and now Wal Mart all sold DRM-locked music until they decided to stop; they were gonna shut down the DRM servers until customers voiced their rage about being unable to transfer that music (or ever download it again); the servers were kept running a bit longer. I don't know about anyone else, but I still have moments of nostalgia where I like to take my ancient copy of Warcraft II, stick it into my computer, and play it (no matter how old they get). If they required DRM servers to be running, they wouldn't work anymore.
DRM essentially changes purchases into rentals. No one can really purchase EA's Spore; people can only rent it as long as EA permits. Meanwhile, again, pirates (the ones who DIDN'T pay for the game) continue enjoying it with no problems.
Blizzard, be gentle with DRM. Don't require the disc to be in the drive. Don't have the game phone home just to play Single Player. Here is the point: the game will get cracked; the game will get pirated... but I will still go out and purchase the game. There are more honest people in the world than EA gives us credit for. I purchased Diablo 2 despite knowing I could have downloaded it illegally. Give value to your paying fans; don't make piracy the more enticing choice.
Little off topic but didn't Maxis get into trouble and I think a law suit about their DRM on the game Spore?
DRM is frowned upon by most of the gaming community and I think it may actually break your privacy rights. I don't know how the lawsuit turned out but I don't think Blizzard will do that to us.
Actually, there will be no (announced) DMR on D3. The already known Warden from D2 will stay with us, although it is unclear how far it has been developed. Also, this statement alone already informs potential buyers what they are getting when they install the game.
That source makes me feel much better. I hope to play D3 without the disc (and without limited installs).
Forgive the bump. I feel this thread has new relevance.
Blizzard has indeed implemented a couple forms of DRM. First, it has been confirmed that there will be online authentication during installation. Second, you have to be online to do virtually anything.
At least Blizzard is trying to add value to being online all the time, but I am still quite upset with the principle that I have to "ask permission" to do anything.
Blizzard has indeed implemented a couple forms of DRM. First, it has been confirmed that there will be online authentication during installation.
Where?
Quote from "TheBuzzSaw" »
Second, you have to be online to do virtually anything.
Not true. They said there is a "guest mode". But I guess if its like other games like that, it means you can't save, etc.. which means you can't actually do anything. But I don't think we know the detail.
I'm talking about Single Player and having to have the CD in the tray.
You probably don't need the CD since you can most likely buy/download Diablo 3 from blizzard store / battle.net (where you put your cd key of the game)
Blizzard don't probably worry about the Single Player.. those who really don't want to pay for the game can crack it anyways. Blizzard has a huge fan base that buys the game even if they don't play battle.net.
Battle.net is blizzards main focus now, they are expecting a lot of players to go straight to multiplayer.. where you of course need a real product.
Not true. They said there is a "guest mode". But I guess if its like other games like that, it means you can't save, etc.. which means you can't actually do anything. But I don't think we know the detail.
Guest mode probably means that you can't get any Achievements becaues those are linked to your battle.net account, cause I think there will also be single player achievements, at least in Starcraft 2.
Totally agree!
DRM is just a way to screw over legit customers than prevent piracy.
the ironic thing is that pirates don't have any of the problems that legit gamers have with DRM.
if a game have DRM i am definitely thinking twice about buying it.
with D3 i'd think twice but for other games i won't get it at all if it has DRM
Totally agree!
DRM is just a way to screw over legit customers than prevent piracy.
the ironic thing is that pirates don't have any of the problems that legit gamers have with DRM.
if a game have DRM i am definitely thinking twice about buying it.
with D3 i'd think twice but for other games i won't get it at all if it has DRM
Yeah I just tried one game that had Starforce.. well it was an older game and surprise it didn't work on vista 64bit. Well I downloaded a patch for starforce and yeah then it did install.
But I had another problem, for some reason my dvd drive doesn't want to read dvd's anymore. So I had to make an image of the dvd with my other computer(linux). So when I tried to play the game it wanted my cd and the image wasn't enough for Starforce. Well that meant I had to get a noCD fix for it anyways.
All these DRM systems are just pain in the butt.. I know many people that just leave the game to the store if it has some kind of mad copy protection, because it only causes more trouble.
Nice i didn't know about this as i don't play many modern comp games besisdes crisis ad CoD4:MW. and neither have it im pretty sure so i didn't know this could happen but geez that would ruin it. I def need a new computer cuz my mac gets trashed so frequently for some reason that i've had to reinstall mac 5 times already and have to get it fixed again. that would just be tragic.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
The scary thing is, and blizzard knows it, no matter how much precautions (historically) taken to avoid piracy, someone always finds a way.
I think Blizz is about to break new anti-piracy ground.
BTW: I don't support piracy.
Of course it doesn't stop any piracy. The anti-piracy is at best a frontal excuse to hide the control. By the way, do you think anyone would buy that works entirely out of the CD and requires online authentication USED? Not that you would have any reason for selling it if you like it. But its still control.
Quote from "akse" »
Yeah I just tried one game that had Starforce.. well it was an older game and surprise it didn't work on vista 64bit. Well I downloaded a patch for starforce and yeah then it did install.
You know what I hate about StarForce? The fact that its using my god damn "clan" name that I used since I was like 12, minus the "s". StarForces. Thats what SF stands for in my name.
I think they should make like a huge CD-Key database, where you have to pass an online check for first time you run the game and if you use a not original CD-Key it will give you the demo or something catchy like this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
For those who don't know, lemme give you a quick rundown of DRM.
DRM = Digital Rights Management. Generally, it grants control over your copy of the game to the game creators (in this case, Blizzard). DRM has varying degrees of restriction. Serial keys are a very light (and in my opinion, acceptable) form of DRM; they control who has access to online benefits. Many games today employ copy protection DRM; the original disc works, but CD-Rs do not. EA recently exerted too much control over Spore (and several games preceding it) by restricting the number of times you can install the game ever (currently, I understand the limit to be 5 installs).
I am OK with serial keys. These keys at least somewhat ensure that my copy is my own. Blizzard also uses these to enable/disable access to Battle.net (great for kicking off cheaters/spammers).
I am NOT OK with games that require online validation of my game to play SINGLE PLAYER (such as Portal or Half-Life 2); I am not always near an Internet source (particularly on my laptop), and I want to enjoy something when Internet is not available.
I am also NOT OK with games that install rootkits or other programs that are designed to watch me, watch what programs I run, and report back statistics to the mother ship. SecuROM (EA's favorite DRM choice for many of its games) is the primary offender here.
The primary problem with DRM is that it is designed to stop piracy... but it never succeeds at doing that! Spore was leaked/pirated before it was even released, and it is a very recent game. Blizzard needs to understand that Diablo 3 will be pirated. That is an unfortunate circumstance in today's world, but any precautions should not royally annihilate the paying customer's experience. Today, pirates are enjoying DRM-free (aka hassle-free) copies of Spore, while the customers who actually gave EA real money have to deal with installation limits, SecuROM, etc.
Another big problem with DRM is that big companies have to maintain DRM servers. Microsoft, Sony, Yahoo, and now Wal Mart all sold DRM-locked music until they decided to stop; they were gonna shut down the DRM servers until customers voiced their rage about being unable to transfer that music (or ever download it again); the servers were kept running a bit longer. I don't know about anyone else, but I still have moments of nostalgia where I like to take my ancient copy of Warcraft II, stick it into my computer, and play it (no matter how old they get). If they required DRM servers to be running, they wouldn't work anymore.
DRM essentially changes purchases into rentals. No one can really purchase EA's Spore; people can only rent it as long as EA permits. Meanwhile, again, pirates (the ones who DIDN'T pay for the game) continue enjoying it with no problems.
Blizzard, be gentle with DRM. Don't require the disc to be in the drive. Don't have the game phone home just to play Single Player. Here is the point: the game will get cracked; the game will get pirated... but I will still go out and purchase the game. There are more honest people in the world than EA gives us credit for. I purchased Diablo 2 despite knowing I could have downloaded it illegally. Give value to your paying fans; don't make piracy the more enticing choice.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
My biggest concern is that Diablo 3 (or Starcraft 2) will be Blizzard's first major modern release (since more of the world has broadband than when Diablo 2 came out) that doesn't have "natural protections". World of Warcraft connects to servers that Blizzard controls and maintains. WoW doesn't really need DRM because of the inherent nature of how it works: Blizzard offers great service (server maintenance, world creation, etc.) for the money paid.
My other fear is that stakeholders get involved and try to exert unhealthy pressure on the developers. Despite all the evidence against DRM, they shout, "Protect our investment! Use DRM!"
If anything, a no-DRM petition would be far more useful than a plea to change the artistic direction.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
Diablo 3 connects to servers that Blizzard controls and maintains.
I'm talking about Single Player and having to have the CD in the tray.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
So don't worry, I really doubt they will add a drm, not after the big disagrement toward the Drm in spore and all.
Add the fact that Lan is out, lets say you have 0.1% chance to have drm in it.
I really want to believe you. I'm glad Blizzard has a better perspective on the market than other game developers. I just have this dark feeling that some idiot will decide DRM will "boost sales" somehow. I'm scared. T_T
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
As for the installation limit, AFAIK you can easily override it by editing your registry. Unless the game requires online registration every time, but Blizzard has never done that. Remember that D1 didn't even have a CD-key? They don't really bother trying to protect their games against piracy nowdays as the main focus of all their franchises is internet play, and it seems to be working well.
If you want to pressure EA games to unbundle DRM and SecuROM, there’s a campaign that just started to refuse to buy EA games until they remove DRM and SecuROM from their software. Check it out at http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/ea-games-without-drm-and-secu-rom
Figure each game costs $50 minimum, and if 500 people sign on, that would be $25,000 in lost revenue. For its loyal customer base, secretly adding DRM and SecuROM in their install is just not the way to treat us.
The three issues are that DRM and SecuRom are being installed without the user realizing it; DRM limits the number of computers you can install it on; and SecuROM has been affecting some people’s computers to the point that they needed to re-format their hard drive and uninstall the game to get their computer returning to normal.
And it takes just a minute to sign up. You can even sign anonymously.
-----------------------
DRM is frowned upon by most of the gaming community and I think it may actually break your privacy rights. I don't know how the lawsuit turned out but I don't think Blizzard will do that to us.
That source makes me feel much better. I hope to play D3 without the disc (and without limited installs).
Forgive the bump. I feel this thread has new relevance.
Blizzard has indeed implemented a couple forms of DRM. First, it has been confirmed that there will be online authentication during installation. Second, you have to be online to do virtually anything.
At least Blizzard is trying to add value to being online all the time, but I am still quite upset with the principle that I have to "ask permission" to do anything.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
Where?
Not true. They said there is a "guest mode". But I guess if its like other games like that, it means you can't save, etc.. which means you can't actually do anything. But I don't think we know the detail.
This sort of "control" is really pissing me off.
Blizzard don't probably worry about the Single Player.. those who really don't want to pay for the game can crack it anyways. Blizzard has a huge fan base that buys the game even if they don't play battle.net.
Battle.net is blizzards main focus now, they are expecting a lot of players to go straight to multiplayer.. where you of course need a real product.
Guest mode probably means that you can't get any Achievements becaues those are linked to your battle.net account, cause I think there will also be single player achievements, at least in Starcraft 2.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
DRM is just a way to screw over legit customers than prevent piracy.
the ironic thing is that pirates don't have any of the problems that legit gamers have with DRM.
if a game have DRM i am definitely thinking twice about buying it.
with D3 i'd think twice but for other games i won't get it at all if it has DRM
But I had another problem, for some reason my dvd drive doesn't want to read dvd's anymore. So I had to make an image of the dvd with my other computer(linux). So when I tried to play the game it wanted my cd and the image wasn't enough for Starforce. Well that meant I had to get a noCD fix for it anyways.
All these DRM systems are just pain in the butt.. I know many people that just leave the game to the store if it has some kind of mad copy protection, because it only causes more trouble.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
I think Blizz is about to break new anti-piracy ground.
BTW: I don't support piracy.
Of course it doesn't stop any piracy. The anti-piracy is at best a frontal excuse to hide the control. By the way, do you think anyone would buy that works entirely out of the CD and requires online authentication USED? Not that you would have any reason for selling it if you like it. But its still control.
You know what I hate about StarForce? The fact that its using my god damn "clan" name that I used since I was like 12, minus the "s". StarForces. Thats what SF stands for in my name.