Okay, I read the guides somewhere that said Ancient Devastator < Ancient Maximus for Firebird 2.1.2. Based on my sheet dps, Ancient Devastator(+ancient Firebird source) slightly out-damage my Ancient Maximus. So, is Maximus really better? Or, are people comparing 2h vs 1h without Ancient Source? Or is it because Maximus is a 2hander and its Demon chain?
Yes, my Firebird Source got +13 hydra. Forgot to take that into account. I will try both setup on GRift and see. But I got the feeling Ancient Devastator + Ancient Source (+hydra) is stronger than Maximus. I'm not used to the demon's firechain yet. Maybe that would be key. I guess, different gameplay.
From what I have tested, An Ancient Devastator or even Sunkeeper(Sunkeeper probably better for group play on high grifts) is better than Maximus. Haven't tested the furnace yet(Don't have Ancient) But I believe it will also be out performed. The stats you gain Using 1-hander and OH Vs 2-Hander is gigantic. Now before we start An Ancient Serpent Sparker is the BiS weapon for wizards. If you do find one, it will increase your damage output more than any other weapon with the correct gear. Each Setup is different depending on what you are doing solo Grifts or High end group Grifts,T6.
Now the only way One of the 1-handers above outperforms a Maximus or a Furnace is if you have all the right gear/stats and build set up.
FB OH
Witching Hour
Magefist
Cindercoat
RoRG
Unity (if playing solo)
SoJ
Ammy with Fire%/CC/CHD/Socket
Endless walk set(Ring and Ammy) if you have top tier rolls on them will replace the SoJ.(unless you get the very rare roll of Fire%/Edmg/CHD or CC/socket) I am using the endless walk set, and it outperforms my SoJ.
These are the must have items for Pure DPS outputing
You also want +Hydra% dmg on Shoulders, Chest, and Source
+Electrocute% on Belt and pants.
Use Arcane Dynamo to power up your Hydra's, Blizzard, Energy Twister or Molten Impact (Meteor),Since you don't want to use Blackhole with a WD in Groups.
Also the fire chain does do some very good damage, But in a group your not going to be able to take advantage of it, but you can in solo.
This is just my Opinion and what I have tested countless times over and over. I am a top 50 Wiz(US) in DPS in a alot of areas. Can look me up on Diablo progress.
Hope this helps out, If anyone has any questions. Let me Know!
Thanks Russell! I mostly play solo grift with my mage, as I'm often asked to play DH... Hmm, never thought about not using Blackhole with WD and using Arcane Dynamo in groups, Good tip! Don't you have too much downtime refreshing Arcane Dynamo? I guess between Blizzard casts... Gonna ask my friend to let me play Wiz next time in group and try this out
My 1hander + source is actually a lot stronger than I originally posted earlier. I had a DEX magefist on earlier... After a few adjustments, I can see how my Ancient Devastator setup is a lot stronger than my Ancient Maximus setup, even without taking into account the +13 Hydra on my Ancient FB Source! For solo play, being able to use SoJ + Unity is a huge boost to dps and survivability(1hander). Just cleared GR42 an hour ago, and barely missed GR43 (with my DEX magefist...)
Okay, I am sticking to my Devastator setup then. For T6 rifts, Maximus is a lot more fun to use though
Nah no down time at all, When there is a WD voodoo is up also and You get your 5 stacks from Electrocute very fast. Also Electrocute does some good damage. for me I crit for 30-40mil 2/sec. You stack your hydra first, last 15 seconds, then blizzard, then your 3rd spell. Once you get the feel for it and timing it is a great setup.
Yeah Blackhole causes the E's to let affix's out and no one wants that lol.
I haven't pushed Solo Grifts very much at all with the reset of leaderboards coming, Hate trials lol like everyone else and also I want to find gear. So I stick around group play doing speed Grifts 40-44 that take around 6mins. But I had 4+ mins left on that 43 and like I said got a terrible RG. Once the reset happens expect to see me in the top 25
Okay, I read the guides somewhere that said Ancient Devastator < Ancient Maximus for Firebird 2.1.2. Based on my sheet dps, Ancient Devastator(+ancient Firebird source) slightly out-damage my Ancient Maximus. So, is Maximus really better? Or, are people comparing 2h vs 1h without Ancient Source? Or is it because Maximus is a 2hander and its Demon chain?
Thanks.
hmmmm... your numbers don't add up. Fire skill with Maximus (18%) is 97%; Fire skill with Devastator (20%) is 133%. Even if you have a FB Source with perfect 20% - Devastor + FB Source would bring your total Fire skill to 119%. Where did the additional 14% come from?
If you remove the 14% - your maximus still trumps devastator.
Also, with DoT builds the damage is base of the white range numbers on your weapon. The ancient Maximus is 3271-4279 whereas the Devastator is 2037-2712. So you will see greater ticks from DoTs applied using the Maximus.
If I use my FB offhand, I swap to 20% Fire Magefist gloves. So, it's really Ancient Maximus + Firebird gloves vs Ancient Devastator + Ancient FB OH + Magefist. Of course, my items do not have the perfect stats... My amulet has 20% Fire, 91%CHD, 10CRIT, socket (Kymbo's Gold) on my first comparison used on both setup. I swapped back to my HF(719INT,99%CHD,10CRIT,socket, evocation) on my final tweaked setup.
That's basically what I was wondering about, how much of the white damage of the 2Hander contributes to the overall dmg, assuming perfect gear on both setup. Won't extra +fire dmg on the 1h setup overcome the innate higher tick dmg of a 2h setup? My EDamage on the Devastator setup is about 8% better than Maximus, excluding the +Hydra on my source.
That is not true Kylione, you are assuming the Dot's will do more damage purely just off of the "White damage" numbers because the Maximus is more. You are gravely mistaken. The Firebird DoT and other DoT attacks, go off of other stats also that determine how much damage they do. Crit chance,Crit Hit damage, Elemental dmg%, skill% dmg, more intellegence, Ect. While using a 1-Hander and FB OH. Thos stats will be higher using a 1-hander/OH Vs a 2-Hander. Which makes up for that 2- Hander Higher "White Damage number".
Using the 1-hander and OH opens up a lot of options on what you can do with your gear/build, compared to a Maximus where it limits what you can do. Plus your only focusing on just the "firebirds" DoT and your not looking at the damage boost of other skills that also determine how high that DoT will go.
So if I'm not mistaken, the conclusion from this thread: BiS for Wizards solo (Ancient all): Furnace > Devastator = Sunkeeper > Maximus > normal Furnace?
I have 2850 DPS / 28% Sunkeeper i just found yesterday. Would it beat a well rolled Devastator?
Sunkeeper loses DPS against trash, gains DPS against elites.
Devastator gains DPS against trash, loses DPS against elites.
Assuming both weapons (other than fire bonus and elite bonus) have the same stats.
Take your pick. Both are viable.
You lose a crapload of stats with Maximus in GRs.
You lose fire% from both the source and Cindercoat, unless you run RoRG, which would mean losing SOJ or Unity (you're screwed). You lose potential vitality or skill bonus from the source.
I also would not rely on the Maximus chains to do much in higher grifts. Most of the time you won't be in a position to use the chains effectively and it's incredibly unreliable on a rift guardian as you don't have the density to always guarantee a proc/uptime.
Thanks.
To my knowledge, if you are trying to push higher Grifts, you want to have a 2hander because your firebird dot will tick for a much larger amount.
and yes the fire chain hits for a ton.
If you have a well rolled FB source (ChC, damage, hydra, fire), the Devastator will probably win out- remember that hydra on gear is multiplicative.
Thank you
Now the only way One of the 1-handers above outperforms a Maximus or a Furnace is if you have all the right gear/stats and build set up.
FB OH
Witching Hour
Magefist
Cindercoat
RoRG
Unity (if playing solo)
SoJ
Ammy with Fire%/CC/CHD/Socket
Endless walk set(Ring and Ammy) if you have top tier rolls on them will replace the SoJ.(unless you get the very rare roll of Fire%/Edmg/CHD or CC/socket) I am using the endless walk set, and it outperforms my SoJ.
These are the must have items for Pure DPS outputing
You also want +Hydra% dmg on Shoulders, Chest, and Source
+Electrocute% on Belt and pants.
Use Arcane Dynamo to power up your Hydra's, Blizzard, Energy Twister or Molten Impact (Meteor),Since you don't want to use Blackhole with a WD in Groups.
Also the fire chain does do some very good damage, But in a group your not going to be able to take advantage of it, but you can in solo.
This is just my Opinion and what I have tested countless times over and over. I am a top 50 Wiz(US) in DPS in a alot of areas. Can look me up on Diablo progress.
Hope this helps out, If anyone has any questions. Let me Know!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/russell3773-1387/hero/22070364
My 1hander + source is actually a lot stronger than I originally posted earlier. I had a DEX magefist on earlier... After a few adjustments, I can see how my Ancient Devastator setup is a lot stronger than my Ancient Maximus setup, even without taking into account the +13 Hydra on my Ancient FB Source! For solo play, being able to use SoJ + Unity is a huge boost to dps and survivability(1hander). Just cleared GR42 an hour ago, and barely missed GR43 (with my DEX magefist...)
Okay, I am sticking to my Devastator setup then. For T6 rifts, Maximus is a lot more fun to use though
Yeah Blackhole causes the E's to let affix's out and no one wants that lol.
I haven't pushed Solo Grifts very much at all with the reset of leaderboards coming, Hate trials lol like everyone else and also I want to find gear. So I stick around group play doing speed Grifts 40-44 that take around 6mins. But I had 4+ mins left on that 43 and like I said got a terrible RG. Once the reset happens expect to see me in the top 25
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/russell3773-1387/hero/22070364
If you remove the 14% - your maximus still trumps devastator.
Also, with DoT builds the damage is base of the white range numbers on your weapon. The ancient Maximus is 3271-4279 whereas the Devastator is 2037-2712. So you will see greater ticks from DoTs applied using the Maximus.
If I use my FB offhand, I swap to 20% Fire Magefist gloves. So, it's really Ancient Maximus + Firebird gloves vs Ancient Devastator + Ancient FB OH + Magefist. Of course, my items do not have the perfect stats... My amulet has 20% Fire, 91%CHD, 10CRIT, socket (Kymbo's Gold) on my first comparison used on both setup. I swapped back to my HF(719INT,99%CHD,10CRIT,socket, evocation) on my final tweaked setup.
That's basically what I was wondering about, how much of the white damage of the 2Hander contributes to the overall dmg, assuming perfect gear on both setup. Won't extra +fire dmg on the 1h setup overcome the innate higher tick dmg of a 2h setup? My EDamage on the Devastator setup is about 8% better than Maximus, excluding the +Hydra on my source.
Using the 1-hander and OH opens up a lot of options on what you can do with your gear/build, compared to a Maximus where it limits what you can do. Plus your only focusing on just the "firebirds" DoT and your not looking at the damage boost of other skills that also determine how high that DoT will go.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/russell3773-1387/hero/22070364
So if I'm not mistaken, the conclusion from this thread: BiS for Wizards solo (Ancient all): Furnace > Devastator = Sunkeeper > Maximus > normal Furnace?
I have 2850 DPS / 28% Sunkeeper i just found yesterday. Would it beat a well rolled Devastator?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Wiberg-21958/hero/35061489
Devastator gains DPS against trash, loses DPS against elites.
Assuming both weapons (other than fire bonus and elite bonus) have the same stats.
Take your pick. Both are viable.
You lose a crapload of stats with Maximus in GRs.
You lose fire% from both the source and Cindercoat, unless you run RoRG, which would mean losing SOJ or Unity (you're screwed). You lose potential vitality or skill bonus from the source.
No. Just no. You can run it in T6 just fine.
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For lots of reasons and because math.