Why does this even matter? talking about exspansions before the game hasn't even launched. Nobody in this thread will know how Diablo 3 will play out, and any decisions made to increase the level cap in future exspansions will be based on what direction the game has taken since launch and other factors.
If they raise the level cap, they have to add a new difficulty level. They can't raise inferno in case people don't get the expansion. So I'm fairly sure they'll never raise the cap.
No they won't. Inferno is just all the content, with every monster 1 level above you. It would be very easy to keep Normal, nightmare, hell, inferno. If you buy the exp and level to (let's say 70) every time you go into inferno, the monsters level would be 71. If you're still level 60, then they would be 61. They don't need a new difficulty mode, because that's what the new content in the expansion pack will be.
Then people who buy the expansion can never play with people who don't have it. It would divide the population in half and possibly kill the game.
The only way they could possibly raise the level cap, is to raise it for everyone, for free. It's not like a higher level cap would do anything. They could easily add new zones, skills, and new classes without touching the level cap.
What does everyone think a higher level cap would do? Make the game more grindy?
Doesn't work, they'll be differently balanced games at that point.
It is nonsense on behalf of the company to adapt a different business model then pretty much any other expanding level cap game and give the buyer less incentive to get the expansion.
You have your lvl 60 original outdated d3 or your expanded current d3 and these people will be separate after cap.
You can be casual or you can stay relevant.
"the level cap is obviously just so in the expansion they can increase it."
Official Blizzard Quote: Why is that obviously the reason? I'm not picking on you, I've seen more than a few people say this. Is it because obviously people wouldn't buy an expansion unless it had more levels? That's obviously not true because LoD sold many copies based on an additional act, new classes, new items, runewords, jewels, charms, cubing, 800x600 resolution, etc. etc. So looking at what expansions provide, how is it logical to say that we'd obviously make level 60 the cap so we could finally have some way to sell these pesky expansion things? If you want to draw the WoW comparison, Cataclysm only offers an additional 5 levels, as opposed to the previous expansions' 10 levels each, and it was still the fasting selling PC game in history, topping the previous title holder, Wrath of the Lich King. And you could make the argument "Well there are a lot of things that go into that beyond just some more levels." And I would say "Exactly." If we felt 99 was the best level cap to have in Diablo III, that's what we'd be doing. We work extremely hard to design, produce, test, and support finely polished games with a strong focus on fun, and that is the obvious reason these design decisions are made.
Let me follow that up with a disclaimer - We aren't thinking about an expansion at all yet, but as levels are intended to pace content (we expect you to hit the last level around when you kill the last boss on Hell) it's not unreasonable to assume that additional levels would be present in an expansion, assuming it did offer additional content we'd want more levels to keep pace with. I don't refute the logic that an expansion could bring more levels, but I fully refute any idea that we're making design decisions that directly impact the core of the player progression system so we can have a bullet point on the back of a box.
There is no clear answer here, but i doubt they will release an expansion without raising the level cap by 10-20 levels.
They also said somewhere before that they expect players to grind normal for a short time before they can go to nightmare and nightmare for a while before they can go to hell and so on because the difficulty jump between each difficulty level will be slightly to high to just move to higher level with a character which just finished previous difficulty level. So grinding will be required between difficulty levels. That gives them great option to introduce expansions which add an act (like LoD) which would make that grinding between difficulty levels shorter without introducing a new level cap.
I do wonder how they will handle the inevitable expansion. D2 didn't need a level increase, but the cap was 99 which wasn't easy to come by. The additional act added more powerful equipment you could find in order to deal with the tougher monsters.
The thing is, Blizzard doesn't like to introduce new classes or abilities without sharing new abilities with old classes anymore. At least, this is what they've shown in WoW. They want to make sure old classes don't get fully replaced by the new. This could be done without increasing the level cap (maybe shuffle around when abilities are earned to compensate). Just think about that, one new skill per class means they'd all get 5 new abilities with runes alone. But, again, this is Diablo and that logic may not come to play here.
The other things that make an expansion great are new systems like LoD's runewords and Charms. With Diablo 3 they could go any number of routes without having to resort to increasing the level cap. However, adding a new act would be somewhat troublesome when you think about the inferno difficulty and how it works. They want you to pick any act, but if the new act is the only one with the better gear, everyone might just gravitate towards that act anyway.
Sooo.. They might just add another difficulty where all 5 acts drop the newer more powerful stuff or they might just roll up some new items into the existing inferno difficulty. I think they have any number of things they can do and we just won't know for sure until it happens.
Honestly, however, the game isn't even out yet and I think it's too early to worry about it.
I think it will depend of how well RAHM will do. If it becomes their new subscription and their earn a lot we may see smth else in expansion than what we would otherwise. Yes, it's probably to early to talk about it now.
You all make ur assumptions based on paid expansion , but since Blizz are going to profit from the RMAH , and based on the monthly profit they make , they can just give us FREE expansion. With the expansion they gonna rise the lvl cap lets say to 65 , give us some new skills , maybe new rune to the old skills , new act , maybe blacksmith getting lvl 11 for the new items . Since the expansion is going to be free everyone will be going for the lvl cap and the new gear , and blizz will profit from the increased RMAH usage , due to the new items .
Also adding new lvl and items doesnt mean the old badass gear will be useless , it probably will be good enough to get the new lvl cap and farm the new lvl gear .
About inferno , you can access it after beating hell , but the mob lvl is 61+ , so you need to farm hell for max lvl and good items .
But it would mean that badass gear if you don't have it yet will become useless (ok not badass anymore) for end game after the expansion. And I don't want that to happen if grinding time for badass stuff are 1 year+. Unless they make grinding times reasonable but then the whole game will be pointless as it will become WoW. The ubber gear difficult to find are the whole point of diablo and not killing some last boss in the most difficult raid.
Diablo III levels are intended to pace the content, 1-30 in Normal, 30-50 in Nightmare, and 50-60 in Hell. It would stand to reason that were we to release an expansion we’d want additional levels to pace the additional content.
There will absolutely be newer and better items introduced at some point as well, potentially even in patches.
Bashiok is the only person who speculations I try not to listen, too. He play WoW to much
But another nice find anyway, thanks.
If you wear 5 ubbers on you I will know you put a lot of time in game (wish blizz give us a way to know if item was found or bought). But if I see you in your ubbers when they are rubbish cause new expansions just hit the market I won't give a $%^&. Just another reason now to keep ubbers ubbers in D3.
I don't know what ubbers are, but I enjoy leveling up much more than finding items.
I enjoy new maps more than leveling... Anyway, this discussion is not about it.
Not to sound like a jerk or anything but this would be extremely boring if they never extended content... I think for sure they will be raising level caps and in turn, better gear.
I don't mind better gear, but they should plan high lvl legendaries to stay as legendaries and be ubber strong all the time. In wow whole point is to do raids and not to get a thunderfurry. In Diablo the whole point is to get a thunderfurry and not to do new raids. It's not wow guys, if you want wow you should stick to it and wait for pandas.
I always felt it was the spirit of diablo to keep items viable even after expansions, instead of restricting us to a tiny pool after each expansion (a la WoW and many other MMOS) keep older items viable but add newer items as well. Basically I would like it if they avoided BiS type of stuff.
+1 here, that thread is all about above, but WoW players barge in to much
As long as I can kill stuff I don't worry about the best items possible. Chances are I'll never see most of it anyway. Like the Windforce bow from D2. Lol.
You can always buy it for like $500 But you will feel horrible after expansion hit with your bow worth like $50 then.
How about if they made it possible to upgrade "ubbers"? Maybe with pretty hard to get crafting materials and maybe have the artisans do it? Basically you upgrade the item to the exp version of the item with higher level req., same stats but higher. If that item would drop in the exp it would already be the upgraded ubber...
Just one idea... What do you think?
If it takes reasonable amount of time it would work for me (like 1/10th of the time needed to find that ubber)
I had not thought of how Inferno will interact with expansions before. But the max level will obviously be raised, it is ridiculous to think it would not be. Here's how they could handle that in a sane way:
For people playing without the expansion, keep everything the same. They can't play in the same games anyways, and still have to use the old loot drop tables - right? So they shouldn't have to raise the monster levels for people in d3vanilla.
If they raise the level cap, they have to add a new difficulty level. They can't raise inferno in case people don't get the expansion. So I'm fairly sure they'll never raise the cap.
No they won't. Inferno is just all the content, with every monster 1 level above you. It would be very easy to keep Normal, nightmare, hell, inferno. If you buy the exp and level to (let's say 70) every time you go into inferno, the monsters level would be 71. If you're still level 60, then they would be 61. They don't need a new difficulty mode, because that's what the new content in the expansion pack will be.
Then people who buy the expansion can never play with people who don't have it. It would divide the population in half and possibly kill the game.
The only way they could possibly raise the level cap, is to raise it for everyone, for free. It's not like a higher level cap would do anything. They could easily add new zones, skills, and new classes without touching the level cap.
What does everyone think a higher level cap would do? Make the game more grindy?
Expansion characters wouldn't be able to play with non-expansion characters anyways, whether or not there is a level cap raise.
You all make ur assumptions based on paid expansion , but since Blizz are going to profit from the RMAH , and based on the monthly profit they make , they can just give us FREE expansion.
Why give free what most people will pay for?
Sure there will be patches and added content for free, but not at a scale of an expansion which adds new classes, act and new game changing features.
If they raise the level cap, they have to add a new difficulty level. They can't raise inferno in case people don't get the expansion. So I'm fairly sure they'll never raise the cap.
No they won't. Inferno is just all the content, with every monster 1 level above you. It would be very easy to keep Normal, nightmare, hell, inferno. If you buy the exp and level to (let's say 70) every time you go into inferno, the monsters level would be 71. If you're still level 60, then they would be 61. They don't need a new difficulty mode, because that's what the new content in the expansion pack will be.
Then people who buy the expansion can never play with people who don't have it. It would divide the population in half and possibly kill the game.
The only way they could possibly raise the level cap, is to raise it for everyone, for free. It's not like a higher level cap would do anything. They could easily add new zones, skills, and new classes without touching the level cap.
What does everyone think a higher level cap would do? Make the game more grindy?
Who cares if you can't play with people that didn't buy the expansion. This isn't a F2P game and isn't about module based content.
If you want to play with your friends that bought the expanion... drop the $39.99 and buy the expansion. Who gives a frick?
I would hope when they add new levels in expansion they upgrade certian existing items, as to not let them fall behind the fray.
It would be silly if you bought the expansion pack and had one of the most poweful items before starting by virtue of having a legendary that got upgraded. The incentive to play future content lies in bigger and better stuff, and that means that things at the top end of the Vanilla game will clearly have to fall by the wayside.
They should just make all the best legendaries to be very difficult to get (like if you play for a year you should find one, any one not necessarily a weapon).
Mother of god.. no thanks... a whole year to find a single item?
I trust in Blizzard's decisions and everything will be just fine don't worry.
Who cares if you can't play with people that didn't buy the expansion. This isn't a F2P game and isn't about module based content.
If you want to play with your friends that bought the expanion... drop the $39.99 and buy the expansion. Who gives a frick?
^^ Word.
LoD introduced not only new areas, but new mechanics, new item types, new character classes. D2 and LoD were NOT paced so that you would finish a difficulty and be close to a certain level. D3 is and since the game is paced with leveling in mind, I would assume a longer game means more levels.
Diablo series hasn't raised the level cap before. Should they? I'm on the fence. They really didn't have a true expansion for the first Diablo, it was made by a different company who bought the rights. Diablo 2 the level cap for players did not change but the level cap for the monsters rose. You could still out level the monsters but with experience loss on death, it was harder to do in the early days before baal bots ran 24/7.
They could do something like this. Keep the player level at 60. Introduce a new act with higher level monsters and better gear for level 60's. It avoids a new experience grind end game players but brings on another onslaught of gear farming. Also, it will make for a nice challenge if we are having to face level 63 or 65 monsters as level 60's.
Players new to level 60 could just buy the new gear making the first 4 acts of inferno easier and letting them avoid the year long grind the OG players endured but they would still need to face the new challenges of Act 5, Act 6 and so on for each expansion.
I'm not completely hostile to a WoW version of expansions though. We just get a new level to go along with Normal, Nightmare, and Inferno plus an Act 5, Act 6 etc.., infused with new gear and skills to go along with a new level cap . Please let the new level names remain true to Diablo lore though. We don't want Heroic. Name them Uber, Godly, Pandemonium, or even Cow King Level. This appears what will probably happen, which makes inferno easy mode once new levels and gears come out. We would have new content, and challenges at the next level however. They are basically just moving the finish line from inferno level 60 to whatever the expansion involves.
I'm happy with either version. Just give me a reason to keep playing.
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It is nonsense on behalf of the company to adapt a different business model then pretty much any other expanding level cap game and give the buyer less incentive to get the expansion.
You have your lvl 60 original outdated d3 or your expanded current d3 and these people will be separate after cap.
You can be casual or you can stay relevant.
They also said somewhere before that they expect players to grind normal for a short time before they can go to nightmare and nightmare for a while before they can go to hell and so on because the difficulty jump between each difficulty level will be slightly to high to just move to higher level with a character which just finished previous difficulty level. So grinding will be required between difficulty levels. That gives them great option to introduce expansions which add an act (like LoD) which would make that grinding between difficulty levels shorter without introducing a new level cap.
Good find, thanks.
I think it will depend of how well RAHM will do. If it becomes their new subscription and their earn a lot we may see smth else in expansion than what we would otherwise. Yes, it's probably to early to talk about it now.
But it would mean that badass gear if you don't have it yet will become useless (ok not badass anymore) for end game after the expansion. And I don't want that to happen if grinding time for badass stuff are 1 year+. Unless they make grinding times reasonable but then the whole game will be pointless as it will become WoW. The ubber gear difficult to find are the whole point of diablo and not killing some last boss in the most difficult raid.
Bashiok is the only person who speculations I try not to listen, too. He play WoW to much
But another nice find anyway, thanks.
I enjoy new maps more than leveling... Anyway, this discussion is not about it.
I don't mind better gear, but they should plan high lvl legendaries to stay as legendaries and be ubber strong all the time. In wow whole point is to do raids and not to get a thunderfurry. In Diablo the whole point is to get a thunderfurry and not to do new raids. It's not wow guys, if you want wow you should stick to it and wait for pandas.
+1 here, that thread is all about above, but WoW players barge in to much
You can always buy it for like $500 But you will feel horrible after expansion hit with your bow worth like $50 then.
If it takes reasonable amount of time it would work for me (like 1/10th of the time needed to find that ubber)
For people playing without the expansion, keep everything the same. They can't play in the same games anyways, and still have to use the old loot drop tables - right? So they shouldn't have to raise the monster levels for people in d3vanilla.
Expansion characters wouldn't be able to play with non-expansion characters anyways, whether or not there is a level cap raise.
Sure there will be patches and added content for free, but not at a scale of an expansion which adds new classes, act and new game changing features.
Who cares if you can't play with people that didn't buy the expansion. This isn't a F2P game and isn't about module based content.
If you want to play with your friends that bought the expanion... drop the $39.99 and buy the expansion. Who gives a frick?
It would be silly if you bought the expansion pack and had one of the most poweful items before starting by virtue of having a legendary that got upgraded. The incentive to play future content lies in bigger and better stuff, and that means that things at the top end of the Vanilla game will clearly have to fall by the wayside.
I trust in Blizzard's decisions and everything will be just fine don't worry.
^^ Word.
LoD introduced not only new areas, but new mechanics, new item types, new character classes. D2 and LoD were NOT paced so that you would finish a difficulty and be close to a certain level. D3 is and since the game is paced with leveling in mind, I would assume a longer game means more levels.
They could do something like this. Keep the player level at 60. Introduce a new act with higher level monsters and better gear for level 60's. It avoids a new experience grind end game players but brings on another onslaught of gear farming. Also, it will make for a nice challenge if we are having to face level 63 or 65 monsters as level 60's.
Players new to level 60 could just buy the new gear making the first 4 acts of inferno easier and letting them avoid the year long grind the OG players endured but they would still need to face the new challenges of Act 5, Act 6 and so on for each expansion.
I'm not completely hostile to a WoW version of expansions though. We just get a new level to go along with Normal, Nightmare, and Inferno plus an Act 5, Act 6 etc.., infused with new gear and skills to go along with a new level cap . Please let the new level names remain true to Diablo lore though. We don't want Heroic. Name them Uber, Godly, Pandemonium, or even Cow King Level. This appears what will probably happen, which makes inferno easy mode once new levels and gears come out. We would have new content, and challenges at the next level however. They are basically just moving the finish line from inferno level 60 to whatever the expansion involves.
I'm happy with either version. Just give me a reason to keep playing.