First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
Since the news came out, there has been almost nothing but constructive replies from people, not all but most of us. In general I think people have kept their cool relatively well (as opposed to how high feelings can run on forums sometimes).
You're not exactly the first one to post a new topic about this, so please stop with your babbling bullshit - we're in our right minds to disagree with Blizzards changes.
you basically just dismissed any constructive argument anyone has made simply because they arent happy with the changes.
And your argument about skill-points makes no sense, as they put a cap on how many you could put into abilities, it wasnt like diablo 2 were you could slam them all into one skill. All the change did was make it so you put 1 point into a skill instead of spreading your points out between your 6-7 skills like you used to. And don't use min/max and a counter argument because even if people mix max into their skills all the same way, its the same as putting 1 point into each ability, because everyone is doing the same thing, but the other lets you make mistakes (which you could respec) and allows people to make more choices in their skills.
First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
Since the news came out, there has been almost nothing but constructive replies from people, not all but most of us. In general I think people have kept their cool relatively well (as opposed to how high feelings can run on forums sometimes).
You're not exactly the first one to post a new topic about this, so please stop with your babbling bullshit - we're in our right minds to disagree with Blizzards changes.
theres a huge difference between disagreeing with the changes and making a post about how much you hate the game you have never played and that you will not be purchasing it
you basically just dismissed any constructive argument anyone has made simply because they arent happy with the changes.
And your argument about skill-points makes no sense, as they put a cap on how many you could put into abilities, it wasnt like diablo 2 were you could slam them all into one skill. All the change did was make it so you put 1 point into a skill instead of spreading your points out between your 6-7 skills like you used to. And don't use min/max and a counter argument because even if people mix max into their skills all the same way, its the same as putting 1 point into each ability, because everyone is doing the same thing, but the other lets you make mistakes (which you could respec) and allows people to make more choices in their skills.
Eh it wouldn't be the first time I've said it today, but what really is the difference between the skill system as it was and it is now?
OK, so people can't make mistakes as easy, yet they have the opportunity to play a much broader set of skills more effectively. Oh noes. So basically you want the ability to click a button to apply skill points, instead of just having it do it for you automatically? People must really like pressing buttons. You want the opportunity for other people to "mess up" so you can feel like you have the best build for an internet minute. Really?
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have
The more threads I read, the stronger I feel that RMAH is the equivalent of cheating code in single player.
People use them for the same reason, people defend them with the same words.
Uh, I think they are inherently different. A cheat is something that gives you an advantage over a system or person that they cannot achieve otherwise. The AH is simply another way, (mind you not the *only* way as people seem to be implying) to get the same equipment you can by simply playing the game. It's just another trade system.
But if we're into generalizing arguments for the sake of it, what you're basically telling me is that I'm "cheating" because I choose to shop at a grocery store instead of growing my own food. That sound about right?
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have
The more threads I read, the stronger I feel that RMAH is the equivalent of cheating code in single player.
People use them for the same reason, people defend them with the same words.
Uh, I think they are inherently different. A cheat is something that gives you an advantage over a system or person that they cannot achieve otherwise. The AH is simply another way, (mind you not the *only* way as people seem to be implying) to get the same equipment you can by simply playing the game. It's just another trade system.
But if we're into generalizing arguments for the sake of it, what you're basically telling me is that I'm "cheating" because I choose to shop at a grocery store instead of growing my own food. That sound about right?
I don't agree with your defination of cheating. To me, cheating is gaining in-game benefit without in-game effort.
I can only consider a gold coin AH as a grocery store you mentioned, because gold coin is what you earn in game.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
"Eh it wouldn't be the first time I've said it today, but what really is the difference between the skill system as it was and it is now?
OK, so people can't make mistakes as easy, yet they have the opportunity to play a much broader set of skills more effectively. Oh noes. So basically you want the ability to click a button to apply skill points, instead of just having it do it for you automatically? People must really like pressing buttons. You want the opportunity for other people to "mess up" so you can feel like you have the best build for an internet minute. Really?"
Your just flatly throwing out that I want people to mess up when I said nothing about the respecing system at all. I'm quiet sure if you messed up with multi-point skills you could fix your problem as easily as with the one point system since they are giving out respecs for free, which I dont really have a problem with. I'm annoyed at the skill system with zero depth, where you don't need to think about which skill your putting your points into as you level, as they all increase with your level or gear. I like the old system because you choose which ability you want stronger each level, which is NOT the same as just having EVERY skill get better every level. The new system in no way supports a broader set of skill, if you are min maxing that is because that is the point to how useful it is to put a point into that ability. People only put one point into a amplify dmg because the amount of dmg bonus you got never changed, just the area it covered, that bonus does very little. If an ability like that gave increasing amounts of bonus dmg it would be worth putting more points into. Abilities like that are the only reason min/maxing exsist.
I don't agree with your defination of cheating. To me, cheating is gaining in-game benefit without in-game effort.
I can only consider a gold coin AH as a grocery store you mentioned, because gold coin is what you earn in game.
Then you're operating on a different language, i'm afraid, because cheating, in the english language and in the context of this discussion is breaking the rules of the system to achieve something that you normally wouldn't be able to. It means bypassing the structure of the system, or it's intent, in a manner in which was not inherently apart of that system.
For out of context definition of cheating refer here: Cheating
Since the AH is built into the game, it's certainly not cheating.
But I get that you're frustrated by the fact that your friend might buy a set of armor that took you months to find. Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean the system is broken. Ultimately your "friend's" decision doesn't affect you in anyway. The game still functions as intended.
Your just flatly throwing out that I want people to mess up when I said nothing about the respecing system at all. I'm quiet sure if you messed up with multi-point skills you could fix your problem as easily as with the one point system since they are giving out respecs for free, which I dont really have a problem with. I'm annoyed at the skill system with zero depth, where you don't need to think about which skill your putting your points into as you level, as they all increase with your level or gear. I like the old system because you choose which ability you want stronger each level, which is NOT the same as just having EVERY skill get better every level. The new system in no way supports a broader set of skill, if you are min maxing that is because that is the point to how useful it is to put a point into that ability. People only put one point into a amplify dmg because the amount of dmg bonus you got never changed, just the area it covered, that bonus does very little. If an ability like that gave increasing amounts of bonus dmg it would be worth putting more points into. Abilities like that are the only reason min/maxing exsist.
Ok, so you don't want people to mess up - fine. But that's effectively the only difference between the new system and the old. Basically with the old system you would pick the skills you want to use and then apply the points appropriately to those skills. The strength of those skills would be dependent on your relative character level (number of points) and whether or not you choose to put points into a the skill. So, on a basic level, you have the option to make your characters skills weaker by choice. So the system you want is a system that allows routine mathematical mistakes.
The customization your talking about is simply the option to make your characters suck more then others.
In the new system you still have to choose which skills you want, but now you don't need to worry about which skills you want weaker then others. You just use all of your skills with the same amount of relative strength (your character level).
The depth of the system isn't dependent on the allocation of the skill points. It's dependent on the active skills chosen and why. You still need to think about how each of the skills affect your build and how they will interact. That's not to mention the fact that you will have runes, gear and passive skills to deal with too.
First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
Since the news came out, there has been almost nothing but constructive replies from people, not all but most of us. In general I think people have kept their cool relatively well (as opposed to how high feelings can run on forums sometimes).
You're not exactly the first one to post a new topic about this, so please stop with your babbling bullshit - we're in our right minds to disagree with Blizzards changes.
theres a huge difference between disagreeing with the changes and making a post about how much you hate the game you have never played and that you will not be purchasing it
Learn to research properly boy. I have never made such a statement ;). In fact I've up to several times admitted that I will buy the game. Plus, how can you say that these changes will work, if you've never played it either?
I was speaking in generalities not to you personally, and i never said the changes will work I said i supported them and everyone needs to stop complaining about it and deal with it
First of all I have to say that I support ALL the changes that were made,
As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
Yep, i agree with most everything. Especially on the skillpoints thing. I didn't like it at first but the more i read about it, and the more i understand it, the less i hate it (the more i understand something the less i dislike it, what a surprise right?)
The way i see the new skill system is like this: In Diablo 2, if you were a Blizzard sorc, you'd max about 3-4 skills to 20 points each including blizzard, then your blizzard did a shit-ton of damage.
If you were a blizzard sorc, you had these spells at your disposal:
ice bolt (which was useles)
ice blast (which was slightly more powerful than ice bolt, sort of, but pretty useless)
glacial spike (in hell froze enemies for such a short period and in such a small AOE it wasn't really viable)
blizzard (OMG!! a spell that can actually kill enemies, holy crap, wow, this is awesome[unless they're immune])
So you'd just spam blizzard, teleport, spam, teleport, maybe throw in a few glacial spikes for the fun of it, then spam blizzard some more.
With the new skill system it's like having 6 skills maxed to 20 all of which should serve a decent purpose. And that's not including runes etc.
Does it kill "character builds" not really. All character builds really were was "i'm going to pick these skills and level with them" which a person is still allowed to do.
Yep, i agree with most everything. Especially on the skillpoints thing. I didn't like it at first but the more i read about it, and the more i understand it, the less i hate it (the more i understand something the less i dislike it, what a surprise right?)
The way i see the new skill system is like this: In Diablo 2, if you were a Blizzard sorc, you'd max about 3-4 skills to 20 points each including blizzard, then your blizzard did a shit-ton of damage.
If you were a blizzard sorc, you had these spells at your disposal:
ice bolt (which was useles)
ice blast (which was slightly more powerful than ice bolt, sort of, but pretty useless)
glacial spike (in hell froze enemies for such a short period and in such a small AOE it wasn't really viable)
blizzard (OMG!! a spell that can actually kill enemies, holy crap, wow, this is awesome[unless they're immune])
So you'd just spam blizzard, teleport, spam, teleport, maybe throw in a few glacial spikes for the fun of it, then spam blizzard some more.
With the new skill system it's like having 6 skills maxed to 20 all of which should serve a decent purpose. And that's not including runes etc.
Does it kill "character builds" not really. All character builds really were was "i'm going to pick these skills and level with them" which a person is still allowed to do.
Thank god, i'm glad someone else realizes that.
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As for everyone else who keeps hating on Blizzard for making dynamic changes that will only make the game more fun, if it bothers you that much please dont buy the game. theres no need for your babbling bullshit to raid these forums about how much you now hate blizzard(When only 2 days ago you had zero problems with them) or how they have "lost a sale"...just shut up and dont buy the game then, lets go over this
RMAH - If you dont like it DONT USE IT! however its a great option to have, if you think an auction house is going to change gameplay you are stupid, If you think now all you have to do is have money to have godly gear then what did you think about D2JSP??? same thing and no one was bitching about that
No Skill Points - There is way more customization now than there ever was, much better than dumping your points into one spell and spamming the shit out of it all over the map, and have they released how easy/hard its going to be to swap skills...NO so stop speculating until you have played the game
Internet Connection - its 2011 you can get internet everywhere, if you dont have internet then how are you on the forum??
Can we please just have constructive topics on the game we all want to play so badly instead of just a bunch of babbling bullshit
i guess you will have fun slashing monsters for 1 year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n0vBcW5fc&feature=related
The more threads I read, the stronger I feel that RMAH is the equivalent of cheating code in single player.
People use them for the same reason, people defend them with the same words.
And your argument about skill-points makes no sense, as they put a cap on how many you could put into abilities, it wasnt like diablo 2 were you could slam them all into one skill. All the change did was make it so you put 1 point into a skill instead of spreading your points out between your 6-7 skills like you used to. And don't use min/max and a counter argument because even if people mix max into their skills all the same way, its the same as putting 1 point into each ability, because everyone is doing the same thing, but the other lets you make mistakes (which you could respec) and allows people to make more choices in their skills.
theres a huge difference between disagreeing with the changes and making a post about how much you hate the game you have never played and that you will not be purchasing it
Eh it wouldn't be the first time I've said it today, but what really is the difference between the skill system as it was and it is now?
OK, so people can't make mistakes as easy, yet they have the opportunity to play a much broader set of skills more effectively. Oh noes. So basically you want the ability to click a button to apply skill points, instead of just having it do it for you automatically? People must really like pressing buttons. You want the opportunity for other people to "mess up" so you can feel like you have the best build for an internet minute. Really?
EDIT:
Uh, I think they are inherently different. A cheat is something that gives you an advantage over a system or person that they cannot achieve otherwise. The AH is simply another way, (mind you not the *only* way as people seem to be implying) to get the same equipment you can by simply playing the game. It's just another trade system.
But if we're into generalizing arguments for the sake of it, what you're basically telling me is that I'm "cheating" because I choose to shop at a grocery store instead of growing my own food. That sound about right?
Thanks Caniroth for the awesome sig!
I don't agree with your defination of cheating. To me, cheating is gaining in-game benefit without in-game effort.
I can only consider a gold coin AH as a grocery store you mentioned, because gold coin is what you earn in game.
Everyone who disagrees with you is talking "a bunch of babbling bullshit".
Wow... that's some sad shit.
First roll: Barbarian!
OK, so people can't make mistakes as easy, yet they have the opportunity to play a much broader set of skills more effectively. Oh noes. So basically you want the ability to click a button to apply skill points, instead of just having it do it for you automatically? People must really like pressing buttons. You want the opportunity for other people to "mess up" so you can feel like you have the best build for an internet minute. Really?"
Your just flatly throwing out that I want people to mess up when I said nothing about the respecing system at all. I'm quiet sure if you messed up with multi-point skills you could fix your problem as easily as with the one point system since they are giving out respecs for free, which I dont really have a problem with. I'm annoyed at the skill system with zero depth, where you don't need to think about which skill your putting your points into as you level, as they all increase with your level or gear. I like the old system because you choose which ability you want stronger each level, which is NOT the same as just having EVERY skill get better every level. The new system in no way supports a broader set of skill, if you are min maxing that is because that is the point to how useful it is to put a point into that ability. People only put one point into a amplify dmg because the amount of dmg bonus you got never changed, just the area it covered, that bonus does very little. If an ability like that gave increasing amounts of bonus dmg it would be worth putting more points into. Abilities like that are the only reason min/maxing exsist.
*points at door
*waves goodbye
*sheds 0 tears
-Thomas Jefferson
Then you're operating on a different language, i'm afraid, because cheating, in the english language and in the context of this discussion is breaking the rules of the system to achieve something that you normally wouldn't be able to. It means bypassing the structure of the system, or it's intent, in a manner in which was not inherently apart of that system.
For out of context definition of cheating refer here: Cheating
Since the AH is built into the game, it's certainly not cheating.
But I get that you're frustrated by the fact that your friend might buy a set of armor that took you months to find. Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean the system is broken. Ultimately your "friend's" decision doesn't affect you in anyway. The game still functions as intended.
Ok, so you don't want people to mess up - fine. But that's effectively the only difference between the new system and the old. Basically with the old system you would pick the skills you want to use and then apply the points appropriately to those skills. The strength of those skills would be dependent on your relative character level (number of points) and whether or not you choose to put points into a the skill. So, on a basic level, you have the option to make your characters skills weaker by choice. So the system you want is a system that allows routine mathematical mistakes.
The customization your talking about is simply the option to make your characters suck more then others.
In the new system you still have to choose which skills you want, but now you don't need to worry about which skills you want weaker then others. You just use all of your skills with the same amount of relative strength (your character level).
The depth of the system isn't dependent on the allocation of the skill points. It's dependent on the active skills chosen and why. You still need to think about how each of the skills affect your build and how they will interact. That's not to mention the fact that you will have runes, gear and passive skills to deal with too.
I was speaking in generalities not to you personally, and i never said the changes will work I said i supported them and everyone needs to stop complaining about it and deal with it
Yep, i agree with most everything. Especially on the skillpoints thing. I didn't like it at first but the more i read about it, and the more i understand it, the less i hate it (the more i understand something the less i dislike it, what a surprise right?)
The way i see the new skill system is like this: In Diablo 2, if you were a Blizzard sorc, you'd max about 3-4 skills to 20 points each including blizzard, then your blizzard did a shit-ton of damage.
If you were a blizzard sorc, you had these spells at your disposal:
ice bolt (which was useles)
ice blast (which was slightly more powerful than ice bolt, sort of, but pretty useless)
glacial spike (in hell froze enemies for such a short period and in such a small AOE it wasn't really viable)
blizzard (OMG!! a spell that can actually kill enemies, holy crap, wow, this is awesome[unless they're immune])
So you'd just spam blizzard, teleport, spam, teleport, maybe throw in a few glacial spikes for the fun of it, then spam blizzard some more.
With the new skill system it's like having 6 skills maxed to 20 all of which should serve a decent purpose. And that's not including runes etc.
Does it kill "character builds" not really. All character builds really were was "i'm going to pick these skills and level with them" which a person is still allowed to do.
Thank god, i'm glad someone else realizes that.