Only ultramegazord can see them, he didn't make the signatures public (for some reason, dunno why not). The people against the current art style are a majority, indeed, but you have to see that the ones who do support the current art style are at a significant disadvantage, because many voters chose the "don't care" or "change at least something" options. Judging from the polls a clear 60% supports a retouch to the style, maybe even more. We'll see how it goes...
Yea something ain't write with the petition. Usually making it public to view buys you more street cred.
And that is very true Dvirus55. When I first saw the teaser trailer for WoW I was taken back by the rough edges, odd character models, and overall tacky feel. But ya know....that's why they call it a teaser trailer and not "actual gameplay trailer".
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"What is the freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist." - Salman Rushdie
I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a large enough group of people to warrant 45000 signatures. How many people would you say are members in this forum? 2000? How many people in all Diablo fansites' forums? 10000? (being probably a VERY optimistic estimate)
How many of them against the current art direction? 70% (also a VERY optimistic estimate)
Finally: How many of them would bother to vote about it? It doesn't seem to add up (even if you jack up the estimates to 20-30 thousand people)
Dvirus you should add a beta screenie as well, it looks really interesting
Also, to the skeptics, you do realize that the petition has been advertised in, say, all of the major and minor gaming sites so far? It's garnering foreign (by that I mean non-english) attention as well. Ultramegazord said he saw lots of non-english comments etc. and people who signed it. I'm surprised the number hasn't hit like 100k yet. Must be the people who think that "ah what would my, a simple Tom, Dick or Harry's vote count for anything". If all the people who agree with the petition but don't dare or want to sign WOULD sign it, I'd say the number would be a WHOLE lot bigger.
And talking 'bout betas, have any of you seen the '98 E3 trailer of D2? Major improvement.
The problem with the petition is that its calling for a complete overhaul of the graphics, and that's definitely not something I agree with. And I'm sure many feel the same. Sure there can be improvements here and there, maybe the dungeons should be slightly darker, although the outdoor zones look fine, and the armor size a bit smaller, but I certainly don't want a overhaul that would have the game be 4 acts of black, white and gray.
It's not asking for a total overhaul 100% (AFAIK). I don't think there should be a seperate "change only this and this please" petition. It's a one size fits all type of petition.
It's not asking for a total overhaul 100% (AFAIK). I don't think there should be a seperate "change only this and this please" petition. It's a one size fits all type of petition.
I read it again. It comes very close to asking for a complete overhaul, with many changes (not all) that I don't agree with.
Yes I have read it about more than 5 times at least, it comes close, yes, but do you think it caters to those who want all of those criteria filled? For example I don't agree with the rainbow argument, and some more. It is the idea of the petition that you're signing basically. If you want a change you should sign. If you don't, then don't sign it. At least that's the way I interpret it.
Sure Oakwarrior, it has been advertised, but why would people who are not hardcore fans of Diablo sign the petition? For example, I really liked Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. It was a nice game and I was looking forward to it when it was announced. I had played the (really) old POP games so the nostalgia factor was there. But you know what? If a petition had been floating around saying that "Hey, this isn't our beloved Prince of Persia! What have you done to it?!!" I wouldn't have signed it. Why? Because I didn't care! I'm not a hardcore old-school POP gamer! I played it when I was a kid, I loved it, but there is nothing that moves me to sign a petition to change the art direction of the game.
It's been almost ten years since Diablo II. Most people have moved on. Suddenly, they get the announcement that Diablo III is coming out! Cool! They see the announcement, the videos and in all respects this looks like a kickass game. Now, remember: We are not talking about people who have been awaiting a sequel ever since they finished LoD, who have trawled the net for news and rumors for 8 years (I did that for almost 10 years for Starcraft 2, so I know what THAT feels like). They're just excited to see a sequel to a game they loved.
Now that's the way I see it. It's my opinion that a lot of the pictures that people are darkening down look a lot worse than what we're seeing from Blizzard. It's also an opinion that I see shared a lot in these forums (long time lurker). I don't think that even 60% of people in here hate the look. So why would so many people who ARE NOT hardcore fans sign the petition when even this community doesn't wholeheartedly believe in it?
Erh? Ubisoft did extremely well with their design choices with the PoP series. Artistically those games were games of the year by my standards. Sands of Time's art style didn't need a petition to change anything, it deserved a petition to the government so that they'd be awared 100$ dollars for capturing the arabic feel so well. Even the emo-blood-stained style of Warrior Within fit because the theme was set as so.
And do I really need to remind again the fact that those doctored images are "examples"? Noone has the tools nor time to emulate the D3 demo we were shown and change it in great complexity. It's more of a nudge toward a direction than anything.
The many people would sign it because they hate WoW? Just a thought but might hold true. You'd have to ask them, really, because I wouldn't know how to explain their choice.
Yes I have read it about more than 5 times at least, it comes close, yes, but do you think it caters to those who want all of those criteria filled? For example I don't agree with the rainbow argument, and some more. It is the idea of the petition that you're signing basically. If you want a change you should sign. If you don't, then don't sign it. At least that's the way I interpret it.
The reason I won't sign the petition is not because I don't want change, I do, but that's not the type of change I'm looking for. Making the game dark and monotonous is not what the previous Diablo titles are about.
They didn't really change the overall design, at least not imho. They made very subtle changes that ended up making a pretty big difference. One of the things is that they made the textures more sharper and defined, and then added texture. Making things look gritty and shit.
Now I am not sure whether that was the direction from the beginning and everyone thought that the earlier screenshots were final, or if the community did have an impact. I never saw a source were Blizzard said "Ok guys... we will change it for you." Basically they made the changes as development continued and makes me wonder if the starcraft fans had their ego stroked by thinking they had an impact.
i think it was the direction in the begginning, i said the same thing about diablo 3, just wait till it is released and see how many poeple are discussion wehter or not D3 looks bad ass and threy changed alot becuase the fans asked them to, or becuase it was in the origianl plan, im gonna put money blizzard had it already planned.
I was just trying to bring an example to the table. You have to admit though that Sands departs a lot from the style of the original POP (which was actually the argument) both stylistically and on the gameplay side. Me, I just see Diablo III as the next logical step. I love the design and it does feel dark to me. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Still, I wish the petition was made public so we could actually see what's going on. It would be pretty nasty if the whole thing was spammed up a few levels. Or maybe I'm just plain wrong. Oh, well, enough contemplating abut that, back to studying (last exam date tomorrow!! Woooooh!!)
i think it was the direction in the begginning, i said the same thing about diablo 3, just wait till it is released and see how many poeple are discussion wehter or not D3 looks bad ass and threy changed alot becuase the fans asked them to, or becuase it was in the origianl plan, im gonna put money blizzard had it already planned.
Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans. You can clearly see that from Karune's comment. Blizzard does listen to the fans.
True, the PoP series did depart from the original concept, but the changes were very welcome, because they seemed like a better version of graphics and cooler combat PoP (at least IMHO). If the shit fits, wear it.
Let's agree to disagree then
Well to be honest the screen shots just look like blizzard added all of the details to the graphics ie..Lighting,shading,texture...ect. The screen shots to me show one thing alpha graphics vs beta graphics which is what is going to happen in D3.
Its kinda like when War Hammer was/still is in development and people said wow those graphics really suck. Then they showed the people a 20 sec clip of what the game will look like when they add of the graphics and people were happy.
Pretty much means that fans really need to learn paitience.
Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans. You can clearly see that from Karune's comment. Blizzard does listen to the fans.
a blizzard employee said that? i didnt hear anything like that. and i still seriously doubt they change d3 for the fans. polish of course, and after polish it will look alot like what we want but it doesnt mean they are doing it becuase we bitched.
Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans.
I doubt it. To me it looks they just patched up the graphics, which is what they would have done anyway. But, of course, fans want to think they actually have an effect on the game or something.
Quote from "nick7913" »
You can clearly see that from Karune's comment.
That comment was specifically designed to make people like you think that they did affect the game and make the fanbase happy. And it accomplished what it needed to, shut up the stupid fans who can't wait for the company to make its own changes to the game. I didn't really mind how SCII looked even from the beginning, and when I was watching screens I didn't even notice there was a graphics change until I saw a comparison between old and new - the changes were highly subtle and slow, how they always are in game development.
Quote from "nick7913" »
Blizzard does listen to the fans.
If it did that it would be bankrupt like 3DO.
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And 40,000 is far from majority heh. I'm pretty sure a mil+ people will buy the game including the petitioners.
And that is very true Dvirus55. When I first saw the teaser trailer for WoW I was taken back by the rough edges, odd character models, and overall tacky feel. But ya know....that's why they call it a teaser trailer and not "actual gameplay trailer".
How many of them against the current art direction? 70% (also a VERY optimistic estimate)
Finally: How many of them would bother to vote about it? It doesn't seem to add up (even if you jack up the estimates to 20-30 thousand people)
Also, to the skeptics, you do realize that the petition has been advertised in, say, all of the major and minor gaming sites so far? It's garnering foreign (by that I mean non-english) attention as well. Ultramegazord said he saw lots of non-english comments etc. and people who signed it. I'm surprised the number hasn't hit like 100k yet. Must be the people who think that "ah what would my, a simple Tom, Dick or Harry's vote count for anything". If all the people who agree with the petition but don't dare or want to sign WOULD sign it, I'd say the number would be a WHOLE lot bigger.
And talking 'bout betas, have any of you seen the '98 E3 trailer of D2? Major improvement.
It's been almost ten years since Diablo II. Most people have moved on. Suddenly, they get the announcement that Diablo III is coming out! Cool! They see the announcement, the videos and in all respects this looks like a kickass game. Now, remember: We are not talking about people who have been awaiting a sequel ever since they finished LoD, who have trawled the net for news and rumors for 8 years (I did that for almost 10 years for Starcraft 2, so I know what THAT feels like). They're just excited to see a sequel to a game they loved.
Now that's the way I see it. It's my opinion that a lot of the pictures that people are darkening down look a lot worse than what we're seeing from Blizzard. It's also an opinion that I see shared a lot in these forums (long time lurker). I don't think that even 60% of people in here hate the look. So why would so many people who ARE NOT hardcore fans sign the petition when even this community doesn't wholeheartedly believe in it?
And do I really need to remind again the fact that those doctored images are "examples"? Noone has the tools nor time to emulate the D3 demo we were shown and change it in great complexity. It's more of a nudge toward a direction than anything.
The many people would sign it because they hate WoW? Just a thought but might hold true. You'd have to ask them, really, because I wouldn't know how to explain their choice.
i think it was the direction in the begginning, i said the same thing about diablo 3, just wait till it is released and see how many poeple are discussion wehter or not D3 looks bad ass and threy changed alot becuase the fans asked them to, or becuase it was in the origianl plan, im gonna put money blizzard had it already planned.
This petition is to KEEP the current art direction
Good Job Blizzard. Stay on Track
Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans. You can clearly see that from Karune's comment. Blizzard does listen to the fans.
True, the PoP series did depart from the original concept, but the changes were very welcome, because they seemed like a better version of graphics and cooler combat PoP (at least IMHO). If the shit fits, wear it.
Let's agree to disagree then
Amen to that! Thanks! See you guys later.
Its kinda like when War Hammer was/still is in development and people said wow those graphics really suck. Then they showed the people a 20 sec clip of what the game will look like when they add of the graphics and people were happy.
Pretty much means that fans really need to learn paitience.
a blizzard employee said that? i didnt hear anything like that. and i still seriously doubt they change d3 for the fans. polish of course, and after polish it will look alot like what we want but it doesnt mean they are doing it becuase we bitched.
This petition is to KEEP the current art direction
Good Job Blizzard. Stay on Track
That comment was specifically designed to make people like you think that they did affect the game and make the fanbase happy. And it accomplished what it needed to, shut up the stupid fans who can't wait for the company to make its own changes to the game. I didn't really mind how SCII looked even from the beginning, and when I was watching screens I didn't even notice there was a graphics change until I saw a comparison between old and new - the changes were highly subtle and slow, how they always are in game development.
If it did that it would be bankrupt like 3DO.