Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class)
Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
Then what?
Ladders? With no economy and account wealth being meaningless?
Please explain it to me, what will keep me playing?
Will D3 get new skills constantly to change flavor of the month builds?
Will D3 have Leagues with new rule sets With Turbo monsters, PVP, and other weird stuff?
Will D3 Allow me to find an item, theory craft a build and level up that character progressing through multiple difficulties?
In D3 i level a character, get OP gear in a few weeks and then im left staring at a paragon number the rest of the time... Ill never have to re-roll that class, Ill have no incentive to increase my accounts wealth or look forward to new fresh economy.
Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class)
Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
...
What will keep me playing?
Why do you have to keep playing? D3 isn't a subscription game. Doing the above basically means you finished it.
Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class)
Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
...
What will keep me playing?
Why do you have to keep playing? D3 isn't a subscription game. Doing the above basically means you finished it.
Was D2 a subscription game?
Was D1 a subscription game? It may shock people to know that everyone that bought D2 hasn't played it every day since 2000.
Looks like people really latched onto the subscription comment and think that means I think D3 should have no replayability. What it means is that Blizzard doesn't have to provide you with an infinite amount of new content for the life of the game.
Dismissing...
Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class) Face roll Torment 6. Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
...as not being "replayability" is absurd. The average gamer will accomplish (maybe) them by coming back to the game again and again over time. Maybe they play a WD to 70, do a little adventure mode, and then go play Titanfall for awhile. Then they come back to Diablo 3 and play a Crusader up to 70 and maybe try out some hardcore, rinse/repeat.
...keep me interested for around a month or three
A game you may play for 3 straight months has no lengivity/replayability. Got it.
No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.
What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?
A game's 'replay value' is subjective. If you enjoy re-rolling a character every time you want to try a new build, then great! Diablo 2 is perfect for that and has great past memories to live attached to it. If you enjoy leveling a class once to play the game for the chance to find a build changing legendary, then great! Diablo 3 is the game for you. I love all three games, and they all reach a point somewhere steep and near impossible to climb any further. It's just the way these games work.
No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.
Anyway, your point was that he's supposed to stop playing after accomplishing those goals because D3 "isn't a subscription game", which is obviously a fallacy. Many non-subscription games have kept players entertained for years.
You also tried to deflect. Which is just sad.
Well let's look at why d2 is replay-able. The best items in the game weren't max level required. So when you found an item it would inspire you to make a new character or a new build of your current one. That is one reason d2 was replay-able.
Personally as I was lucky enough to get into the first round of Beta keys, I so far am loving a lot of the changes, Adventure mode is tons of fun leveling a Crusader, my Wizard has not seen much play time as I built a cmww before getting into the beta. The greatest part is opening horodric caches just to see the mass loot that drops and waiting for that beam to show up. I will for sure keep playing.
No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.
What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?
You didn't play D2?
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
I have no idea what will keep anyone other than myself playing the game. People seem to want ironclad guarantees about this game lasting us for a decade. I honestly don't see that happening much these days. We have so many options with games these days and our expectations of what keeps us playing has grown a lot since the days of Diablo 2.
I hope the game holds our interest for a while (given how long we all waited for it to be released) but it's going to boil down to what we make of the game that's given to us as much as it's up to Blizzard to create an engaging set of options.
One thing is for sure; I am going to be playing ROS a lot differently then how I approached D3. I am going to be much more casual focused and spend less time improving my character. Progression tunnel vision is something that D3 doesn't cater to very well.
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
Isn't starting new characters for ladder, pvp, and offline all just leveling a class? It seems like you just want Diablo 3 to have more ways that force you to re-level a character.
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
Isn't starting new characters for ladder, pvp, and offline all just leveling a class? It seems like you just want Diablo 3 to have more ways that force you to re-level a character.
Which, as I've pointed out before, was basically just an inconvenience in D2 since it was so easy to power level new characters to get them to the point that could use any item in the game and have enough skill points to make any build you wanted. You can do the exact same thing in D3, minus the several hours of work grinding the character to level 80.
And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
I played the shit out of D2, I was being faceteous. My point was that there's really not much you could do in D2 that you can't do in D3, D3 is just much smarter about it.
You can make a new character every time you want to try a new build in D3 if you want. I don't, and I appreciate not having to, but I can. And I do routinely make new characters, both hardcore and softcore, because I enjoy leveling new characters. I try out different skills as I level, and if I get tired of them I just change them out for a few levels instead of never finishing the character, because God forbid I spend any skill points outside of my build, effectively wasting them. And I'm still plenty invested in my characters, I just don't define them by their main attack. I also can't be bothered to trade gear between active characters, so they all have their own sets.
Levels in D3 unlock skills and gear, which is all they did in D2. Neither game lets you use Whirlwind, for example, until you get to the right level. The difference is that in D2, you had to sit on your stat points until you could spend them in the skill you wanted to use, and everything along the way was underpowered because again, God forbid you put an extra point in a skill you weren't going to use long-term. I have plenty of fond memories of sitting on 10+ skill points; how meaningful is that? Stat points were no better - with a small handful of exceptions, it was enough STR and DEX for gear, rest in VIT, no points in Energy, with plenty of sitting on 50+ points if you didn't have your end-game gear sitting in your stash and, as a result, didn't know exactly how much STR/DEX you needed to wear it.
It's true D3 doesn't have ladders, but all the ladders really do is rank you - there's nothing stopping you from starting fresh in D3. As I said above, I do it all the time. Which is not to say I wouldn't like ladders in D3 - but it's not some distinct D2 playstyle that's extinct now. I don't think anyone still played Classic if they had the Expansion; you're just reaching there. For PvP, I'm not well versed enough to understand the complaints. The only PvP I did in D2 was the occasional free-for-all in Act I with friends, which is the same as brawling except you could run far away.
And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.
That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.
Could this just be a change in taste on your part? I mean, do you still go back to D2 and say, "Yeah, this is the stuff?"
Because I know I can't. I always hated having to ignore skills I'm not planning to use long term, and being able to use them at "full strength" on the way up, until something new unlocks, is just awesome. I couldn't go back to to the skill-tree method.
I'd say 'yes', because I wasn't talking specifically about having to go through the story. It's the philosophy of the game: they made a point of controlling every single aspect of the user's gameplay experience, instead of having a more 'sandboxy' approach like D2 had.
I feel like you are being intentionally vague. In what way do you feel railroaded by the game, that D2 didn't?
That's just it: it's not fun in D3. I wish it was, but it's not. I even got into Hardcore to try to make it more fun; it only worked slightly, but it's still not fun.
My take on it is to sit back and wait for the beta to take shape. If it can please those who are difficult to please, then it's all the better for me. I'll be happy either way though.
If anything that they have done to 'derail' us from playing a certain way is removing the difficulties to beat before we can start the endgame. That is HUGE the franchise had always been about playing the story over and over again. Now we can actually start the grind for minmaxing whenever we want. I think it will be great.
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Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
Then what?
Ladders? With no economy and account wealth being meaningless?
Please explain it to me, what will keep me playing?
Will D3 get new skills constantly to change flavor of the month builds?
Will D3 have Leagues with new rule sets With Turbo monsters, PVP, and other weird stuff?
Will D3 Allow me to find an item, theory craft a build and level up that character progressing through multiple difficulties?
In D3 i level a character, get OP gear in a few weeks and then im left staring at a paragon number the rest of the time... Ill never have to re-roll that class, Ill have no incentive to increase my accounts wealth or look forward to new fresh economy.
What will keep me playing?
Was D1 a subscription game? It may shock people to know that everyone that bought D2 hasn't played it every day since 2000.
Dismissing...
...as not being "replayability" is absurd. The average gamer will accomplish (maybe) them by coming back to the game again and again over time. Maybe they play a WD to 70, do a little adventure mode, and then go play Titanfall for awhile. Then they come back to Diablo 3 and play a Crusader up to 70 and maybe try out some hardcore, rinse/repeat.
A game you may play for 3 straight months has no lengivity/replayability. Got it.
What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?
Well let's look at why d2 is replay-able. The best items in the game weren't max level required. So when you found an item it would inspire you to make a new character or a new build of your current one. That is one reason d2 was replay-able.
You didn't play D2?
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
I hope the game holds our interest for a while (given how long we all waited for it to be released) but it's going to boil down to what we make of the game that's given to us as much as it's up to Blizzard to create an engaging set of options.
Isn't starting new characters for ladder, pvp, and offline all just leveling a class? It seems like you just want Diablo 3 to have more ways that force you to re-level a character.
Which, as I've pointed out before, was basically just an inconvenience in D2 since it was so easy to power level new characters to get them to the point that could use any item in the game and have enough skill points to make any build you wanted. You can do the exact same thing in D3, minus the several hours of work grinding the character to level 80.
And if you want to level up a new character just for the fun of it, nothing is stopping you from doing that.
Even after adventure mode arrives?
Bingo.
Or play hardcore...recklessly.
I played the shit out of D2, I was being faceteous. My point was that there's really not much you could do in D2 that you can't do in D3, D3 is just much smarter about it.
You can make a new character every time you want to try a new build in D3 if you want. I don't, and I appreciate not having to, but I can. And I do routinely make new characters, both hardcore and softcore, because I enjoy leveling new characters. I try out different skills as I level, and if I get tired of them I just change them out for a few levels instead of never finishing the character, because God forbid I spend any skill points outside of my build, effectively wasting them. And I'm still plenty invested in my characters, I just don't define them by their main attack. I also can't be bothered to trade gear between active characters, so they all have their own sets.
Levels in D3 unlock skills and gear, which is all they did in D2. Neither game lets you use Whirlwind, for example, until you get to the right level. The difference is that in D2, you had to sit on your stat points until you could spend them in the skill you wanted to use, and everything along the way was underpowered because again, God forbid you put an extra point in a skill you weren't going to use long-term. I have plenty of fond memories of sitting on 10+ skill points; how meaningful is that? Stat points were no better - with a small handful of exceptions, it was enough STR and DEX for gear, rest in VIT, no points in Energy, with plenty of sitting on 50+ points if you didn't have your end-game gear sitting in your stash and, as a result, didn't know exactly how much STR/DEX you needed to wear it.
It's true D3 doesn't have ladders, but all the ladders really do is rank you - there's nothing stopping you from starting fresh in D3. As I said above, I do it all the time. Which is not to say I wouldn't like ladders in D3 - but it's not some distinct D2 playstyle that's extinct now. I don't think anyone still played Classic if they had the Expansion; you're just reaching there. For PvP, I'm not well versed enough to understand the complaints. The only PvP I did in D2 was the occasional free-for-all in Act I with friends, which is the same as brawling except you could run far away.
Could this just be a change in taste on your part? I mean, do you still go back to D2 and say, "Yeah, this is the stuff?"
Because I know I can't. I always hated having to ignore skills I'm not planning to use long term, and being able to use them at "full strength" on the way up, until something new unlocks, is just awesome. I couldn't go back to to the skill-tree method.
I feel like you are being intentionally vague. In what way do you feel railroaded by the game, that D2 didn't?