I'm finding that I can't be happy with any Wizard builds I make because they always seem to be lacking something or another that I really want... to me it's one of those classes that doesn't feel complete with only 6 skills.
When those Skill Calculator initially came out, I went nuts. I did like 10 different Monk builds. When they tweaked the skills of the classes, I didn't bother to redo my builds...
At the moment I actually think you should just play the game and as you gain skills as you progress through the game, you should just experiment with your newly found skill regardless how shitty it seems. On paper (or rather on skill calculator), certain skills obviously do more damage/stun/AOE ect and it seems as though you'll choose whatever skill you want for that reason, but when you play and experience the skills first hand, I'm sure you might change around quite a bit, not using those you thought you would.
And since you get your last skill slot at level 24 (roughly just before finishing Normal I think Blizz mentioned +/- level 30 when you've completed Normal) and you'll roughly have unlocked 18 skills before level 24 (Monk), the only thing you can do is experiment.
I plan on making a Witch Doctor first but the play-style possibilities that the Wizard has are quite alluring, it's just sad that I can't have my cake and eat it to... lol
I plan on making a Witch Doctor first but the play-style possibilities that the Wizard has are quite alluring, it's just sad that I can't have my cake and eat it to... lol
im also choosing the WD first because more then any other class he will be the easiest by far to go through inferno the fastest, and no i dont mean killing speed, i mean with less gear. he isnt gear dependent like melee classes and unlike the DH or WD he has lots of meat shields to protect him through hell/inferno. so all he really needs is a good weapon and hes good to go for inferno.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I plan on making a Witch Doctor first but the play-style possibilities that the Wizard has are quite alluring, it's just sad that I can't have my cake and eat it to... lol
im also choosing the WD first because more then any other class he will be the easiest by far to go through inferno the fastest, and no i dont mean killing speed, i mean with less gear. he isnt gear dependent like melee classes and unlike the DH or WD he has lots of meat shields to protect him through hell/inferno. so all he really needs is a good weapon and hes good to go for inferno.
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
Speculation FTW!!!
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
after hours of making hundreds of builds with every class its easy to see the WD will be the easiest at going through the game, tons of strong pets that do great dmg, tons of CC spells, and since he wont have to stop to farm gear to survive since his pets tank, he'll only need a weapon. and by this he will also be the fastest first play through the entire game, unless of course you use your credit card to buy inferno gear
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
You don't know til you play it, with the added "aggressiveness" in inferno they may often go straight for you instead of worrying about your minions. Since they want to balance the game to be more equal for all classes there will probably be more mob types like mortar that attack ranged heavily. To back him up, speculation.
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
Speculation FTW!!!
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
You clearly never played a summon necro solo in D2.
i did, all the way through hell and beat it solo. no pot spamming, almost never died, and just sat around while my minions destroyed everything. dicrepify on bosses ftw. re-read my post above, i added more
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
You don't know til you play it, with the added "aggressiveness" in inferno they may often go straight for you instead of worrying about your minions. Since they want to balance the game to be more equal for all classes there will probably be more mob types like mortar that attack ranged heavily. To back him up, speculation.
"you dont know till you play it" isnt an argument. but the part about aggro is. but why would a mob run strait for you if your not attacking it and your pet is? it wouldnt. so all you have to do is let your pets grab "aggro" and THEN attack and you have no worries ^_^. you'll have mobs here and there that will get through, but with zombie wall, horrify ect. you wont have many worries.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Jay did say it felt like classes were a little too complete with 7 skills and that 6 really limited their capabilities to the point of having to make hard decisions. Yay necessary group cooperation! At least for a little while.
For the lone rangers out there... I'm sorry you can't pwn normal and nightmare while naked with a caster class anymore.
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
Speculation FTW!!!
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
You clearly never played a summon necro solo in D2.
i did, all the way through hell and beat it solo. no pot spamming, almost never died, and just sat around while my minions destroyed everything. dicrepify on bosses ftw. re-read my post above, i added more
You realize that you just contradicted yourself then right? Sorceress was hands down THE fastest clear of D2 thanks to Static Field. Yet you claim a summoner will always outpace a non summoner. To this day Sorc is played VASTLY more than Necros.
The fact of the matter is that D3 will be BALANCED. Yes the WD has summons, the other classes have skills to make up for that lack. Will the WD end up being the fastest clear of D3? Possibly. But to state that as a fact with absolutely 0 hands on experience is just silly. Numbers aren't even final yet!
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
Speculation FTW!!!
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
You clearly never played a summon necro solo in D2.
i did, all the way through hell and beat it solo. no pot spamming, almost never died, and just sat around while my minions destroyed everything. dicrepify on bosses ftw. re-read my post above, i added more
You realize that you just contradicted yourself then right? Sorceress was hands down THE fastest clear of D2 thanks to Static Field. Yet you claim a summoner will always outpace a non summoner. To this day Sorc is played VASTLY more than Necros.
The fact of the matter is that D3 will be BALANCED. Yes the WD has summons, the other classes have skills to make up for that lack. Will the WD end up being the fastest clear of D3? Possibly. But to state that as a fact with absolutely 0 hands on experience is just silly. Numbers aren't even final yet!
your definitely not understanding what i said at all. lol. my main and ONLY point to why the WD would be the fastest is because he 'doesnt have to farm gear to survive in inferno'. as a wizard/DH you have zero pets so you will get rushed and die OFTEN in inferno, the WD has many pets to prevent himself from dying, unlike those other 2 ranged classes. the farming hell for inferno will take days maybe even WEEKS and during this time the WD can slowly move through inferno like the necro in D2, i did NOT say he killed fastest, but the farming time will consume other classes while he doesnt have to. so he technically WILL move faster through inferno first
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
You shouldn't rely on your pets to draw attention from the mobs since they improved the A.I. so they could try to catch us first, using dirty tricks, coordinated teleports, long-range attacks, paralysing curses .. The WD doesn't slow missiles, dodge, or run very fast, he has his own weaknesses.
if you read my other reply you'd see i already commented on that. why would a monster who is being attacked by your minions attack YOU if your just standing there? idc how advanced their AI is, there not going to attack you if they are taking dmg from another source, so you let the minions draw aggro, then attack. he also has a ton of CC spells and such even if they do get through to him.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
And yet we both agree the easiest class in D2 is the Sorceress. Who can't summon.
So your "logic" that the WD will be the easiest simply because he has minions falls apart. Also, summons in D2 work alright as long as they're leveled above the monsters you're fighting. In Inferno, everything is going to be OVER your minions levels. I have a feeling (note, I am not stating a fact since I have no idea how it will work) that WD minions are going to fairly worthless in Inferno. IMO they're there to help you, not do all the work for you.
idc how advanced their AI is, there not going to attack you if they are taking dmg from another source, so you let the minions draw aggro, then attack.
Unless there are enemies specifically designed to ignore minions and go directly for the player. This is just further evidence that you have no idea what Inferno is going to be like.
All I'm trying to get you to realize is that blindly claiming that the WD is going to be the easiest class months before the game is released is ridiculous.
Unless there are enemies specifically designed to ignore minions and go directly for the player. This is just further evidence that you have no idea what Inferno is going to be like.
All I'm trying to get you to realize is that blindly claiming that the WD is going to be the easiest class months before the game is released is ridiculous.
lolol. you ignored all the points i made and picked and chose specific things to argue that you took out of context, nice job.
im not "blindly" doing anything, i made very valid points of how the WD is better VS other classes. you ignored my main and most important point, again, for the 3rd time. which is that he wont need to farm gear to survive VS other classes which makes it so he can go through inferno first and therefor beat it faster because of his minions
even IF the AI of certain monsters was specifically designed to go strait for the player, he has THE best CC spells in the game (NO thats not speculation, read his description on the main website and look at all the skills). therefor another great reason why he can go through inferno first, lol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
What's not understood in this thread is that there won't be a single character who gets through inferno mode first. It will be a group of people. The ability to solo inferno mode will only come from top end gear, which you get from inferno. The first character to solo inferno will be whichever character is able to get the best drops in inferno mode after playing through it with full 4 player games.
I agree that the WD will most likely be able to solo most of the game... but I also agree that once people get to Inferno, most builds are gonna have to be revised and probably based around team-play.
Playing with friends will be so much better, more XP, more loot, more memories... too bad they won't have Guild support at launch.
lolol. you ignored all the points i made and picked and chose specific things to argue that you took out of context, nice job.
I took nothing out of context. You stated minion classes will always without fail be easier than non-minion classes. That was the entirety of the post. It is impossible to take that out of context. I then simply proved you wrong with the example of the Sorceress vs the Necromancer in Diablo II as it's the most similar game to D3. That was my sole point with that argument. You had once again made a blind claim and I shut it down. That's it.
im not "blindly" doing anything, i made very valid points of how the WD is better VS other classes. you ignored my main and most important point, again, for the 3rd time. which is that he wont need to farm gear to survive VS other classes which makes it so he can go through inferno first and therefor beat it faster because of his minions
Really now? And that's NOT blindly because you have...... what proof? In a game where gear is EVERYTHING apparently BLizzard is going to make it so that the WD only needs weapons? I guess in that case they should just remove all the armor slots then since you apparently have no use for them.
even IF the AI of certain monsters was specifically designed to go strait for the player, he has THE best CC spells in the game (NO thats not speculation, read his description on the main website and look at all the skills). therefor another great reason why he can go through inferno first, lol.
So how much life are your minions going to have in Inferno? How hard do enemies hit? How often are you going to have to recast dead minions instead of other spells? The skill calculators say NOTHING about that. If your Gargantuan is dying in 20 seconds in Inferno you're going to be in serious trouble. You claim that gear is irrelevant for a summon WD.... and yet Blizzard has specifically stated that players will HAVE to farm Hell to even stand the slightest chance of surviving in Inferno. In the extremely unlikely case that WD's can jump straight to Inferno from Hell while no other class can, Blizzard WILL nerf that. We don't even know if you'll be level 60 at the end of Hell. If you aren't then farming is already going to be required for Inferno just for the levels not to mention the gear. There are SO many things we have no idea about yet.
The entire point of balance is that each character is equally powerful in their own way. You seem to think for some reason that Blizzard is going to intentionally release the WD as more powerful than the other classes.
The WD has CC yes, the best? I don't know about that. Wizards have Frost Nova, Mirror Image, and Slow Time all very strong forms of CC (except that mirror image is more just survival). Are you even taking into account the Wizard's Alabaster runed Familiar? Teleport? I'm not arguing that the WD is weak at all or anything, but you seem to not realize that each class is going to be equally powerful.
I really think you're still in the Diablo II mindset. YES, in that game certain classes were VASTLY easier to play since all they needed were levels and not gear. Sorceress, Necromancer, Druid all fall into that category. Diablo II is NOT DIablo III as witnessed by the recent change of base spell damage numbers to % weapon damage spell numbers. You seem to think that a WD will only need a weapon, but you seem to be forgetting that stats on armor are equally important for increasing your damage. Having a weapon with a high DPS is awesome, but having a weapon with high DPS AND 600 strength from your armor is +600% damage to that DPS.
It's become quite apparent that you're another individual on these forums completely stuck in his mindset about exactly how the game is going to function so I'm done trying to help you see reason.
Does anyone else feel this way?
At the moment I actually think you should just play the game and as you gain skills as you progress through the game, you should just experiment with your newly found skill regardless how shitty it seems. On paper (or rather on skill calculator), certain skills obviously do more damage/stun/AOE ect and it seems as though you'll choose whatever skill you want for that reason, but when you play and experience the skills first hand, I'm sure you might change around quite a bit, not using those you thought you would.
And since you get your last skill slot at level 24 (roughly just before finishing Normal I think Blizz mentioned +/- level 30 when you've completed Normal) and you'll roughly have unlocked 18 skills before level 24 (Monk), the only thing you can do is experiment.
im also choosing the WD first because more then any other class he will be the easiest by far to go through inferno the fastest, and no i dont mean killing speed, i mean with less gear. he isnt gear dependent like melee classes and unlike the DH or WD he has lots of meat shields to protect him through hell/inferno. so all he really needs is a good weapon and hes good to go for inferno.
I love how without playing the game at all you already know which class will clear Inferno the fastest.
Speculation FTW!!!
its called common sense FTW. only class with minions = easiest. always. lol DER
after hours of making hundreds of builds with every class its easy to see the WD will be the easiest at going through the game, tons of strong pets that do great dmg, tons of CC spells, and since he wont have to stop to farm gear to survive since his pets tank, he'll only need a weapon. and by this he will also be the fastest first play through the entire game, unless of course you use your credit card to buy inferno gear
You clearly never played a summon necro solo in D2.
i did, all the way through hell and beat it solo. no pot spamming, almost never died, and just sat around while my minions destroyed everything. dicrepify on bosses ftw. re-read my post above, i added more
"you dont know till you play it" isnt an argument. but the part about aggro is. but why would a mob run strait for you if your not attacking it and your pet is? it wouldnt. so all you have to do is let your pets grab "aggro" and THEN attack and you have no worries ^_^. you'll have mobs here and there that will get through, but with zombie wall, horrify ect. you wont have many worries.
For the lone rangers out there... I'm sorry you can't pwn normal and nightmare while naked with a caster class anymore.
You realize that you just contradicted yourself then right? Sorceress was hands down THE fastest clear of D2 thanks to Static Field. Yet you claim a summoner will always outpace a non summoner. To this day Sorc is played VASTLY more than Necros.
The fact of the matter is that D3 will be BALANCED. Yes the WD has summons, the other classes have skills to make up for that lack. Will the WD end up being the fastest clear of D3? Possibly. But to state that as a fact with absolutely 0 hands on experience is just silly. Numbers aren't even final yet!
your definitely not understanding what i said at all. lol. my main and ONLY point to why the WD would be the fastest is because he 'doesnt have to farm gear to survive in inferno'. as a wizard/DH you have zero pets so you will get rushed and die OFTEN in inferno, the WD has many pets to prevent himself from dying, unlike those other 2 ranged classes. the farming hell for inferno will take days maybe even WEEKS and during this time the WD can slowly move through inferno like the necro in D2, i did NOT say he killed fastest, but the farming time will consume other classes while he doesnt have to. so he technically WILL move faster through inferno first
if you read my other reply you'd see i already commented on that. why would a monster who is being attacked by your minions attack YOU if your just standing there? idc how advanced their AI is, there not going to attack you if they are taking dmg from another source, so you let the minions draw aggro, then attack. he also has a ton of CC spells and such even if they do get through to him.
Really? Cause I could have sworn you said:
And yet we both agree the easiest class in D2 is the Sorceress. Who can't summon.
So your "logic" that the WD will be the easiest simply because he has minions falls apart. Also, summons in D2 work alright as long as they're leveled above the monsters you're fighting. In Inferno, everything is going to be OVER your minions levels. I have a feeling (note, I am not stating a fact since I have no idea how it will work) that WD minions are going to fairly worthless in Inferno. IMO they're there to help you, not do all the work for you.
Unless there are enemies specifically designed to ignore minions and go directly for the player. This is just further evidence that you have no idea what Inferno is going to be like.
All I'm trying to get you to realize is that blindly claiming that the WD is going to be the easiest class months before the game is released is ridiculous.
lolol. you ignored all the points i made and picked and chose specific things to argue that you took out of context, nice job.
im not "blindly" doing anything, i made very valid points of how the WD is better VS other classes. you ignored my main and most important point, again, for the 3rd time. which is that he wont need to farm gear to survive VS other classes which makes it so he can go through inferno first and therefor beat it faster because of his minions
even IF the AI of certain monsters was specifically designed to go strait for the player, he has THE best CC spells in the game (NO thats not speculation, read his description on the main website and look at all the skills). therefor another great reason why he can go through inferno first, lol.
Playing with friends will be so much better, more XP, more loot, more memories... too bad they won't have Guild support at launch.
I took nothing out of context. You stated minion classes will always without fail be easier than non-minion classes. That was the entirety of the post. It is impossible to take that out of context. I then simply proved you wrong with the example of the Sorceress vs the Necromancer in Diablo II as it's the most similar game to D3. That was my sole point with that argument. You had once again made a blind claim and I shut it down. That's it.
Really now? And that's NOT blindly because you have...... what proof? In a game where gear is EVERYTHING apparently BLizzard is going to make it so that the WD only needs weapons? I guess in that case they should just remove all the armor slots then since you apparently have no use for them.
So how much life are your minions going to have in Inferno? How hard do enemies hit? How often are you going to have to recast dead minions instead of other spells? The skill calculators say NOTHING about that. If your Gargantuan is dying in 20 seconds in Inferno you're going to be in serious trouble. You claim that gear is irrelevant for a summon WD.... and yet Blizzard has specifically stated that players will HAVE to farm Hell to even stand the slightest chance of surviving in Inferno. In the extremely unlikely case that WD's can jump straight to Inferno from Hell while no other class can, Blizzard WILL nerf that. We don't even know if you'll be level 60 at the end of Hell. If you aren't then farming is already going to be required for Inferno just for the levels not to mention the gear. There are SO many things we have no idea about yet.
The entire point of balance is that each character is equally powerful in their own way. You seem to think for some reason that Blizzard is going to intentionally release the WD as more powerful than the other classes.
The WD has CC yes, the best? I don't know about that. Wizards have Frost Nova, Mirror Image, and Slow Time all very strong forms of CC (except that mirror image is more just survival). Are you even taking into account the Wizard's Alabaster runed Familiar? Teleport? I'm not arguing that the WD is weak at all or anything, but you seem to not realize that each class is going to be equally powerful.
I really think you're still in the Diablo II mindset. YES, in that game certain classes were VASTLY easier to play since all they needed were levels and not gear. Sorceress, Necromancer, Druid all fall into that category. Diablo II is NOT DIablo III as witnessed by the recent change of base spell damage numbers to % weapon damage spell numbers. You seem to think that a WD will only need a weapon, but you seem to be forgetting that stats on armor are equally important for increasing your damage. Having a weapon with a high DPS is awesome, but having a weapon with high DPS AND 600 strength from your armor is +600% damage to that DPS.
It's become quite apparent that you're another individual on these forums completely stuck in his mindset about exactly how the game is going to function so I'm done trying to help you see reason.