Magic Find Gear Swapping
Blizzard has just posted a blog dealing with the issue of switching to high MF gear right before a kill. In the article five options are given and Blizzard will be looking for any and all feedback on the issue at hand. It should also be noted that with these they will also be looking at ways to add more MF bonuses to compensate for any changes.
- Set a Magic Find Cap
- Slowly Adjust Magic Find Over Time
- Use your average MF% or your lowest MF% of the last 5 minutes
- Zero-Out Your MF% for 3 Minutes After Swapping Gear
- Gear Swapping Interacts with Nephalem Valor
Originally Posted by Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
(Since release it has become an increasingly common practice to keep a Magic Find (MF) set in your inventory, and swap it in shortly before a kill. Philosophically we don't have a problem with the practice. While players getting more Magic Find for their kills isn't a game breaker for us, many players have said they don't enjoy doing it but feel the benefit is too large to ignore. Since the call for a solution really comes from all of you, we'd like to invite you to chime in with your opinion on what the solution could be.
It's worth keeping in mind that if we do implement a method to alleviate gear-swapping in combat, we'll simultaneously be looking at ways for players to get an added MF bonus to compensate.
Here are the solutions we're currently considering, and would appreciate your feedback and opinion on what seems the most reasonable for you, and why:
Option 1: Set a Magic Find Cap
We could set an MF cap between something like 100% and 200%. Nephalem Valor provides 75%, so you would need between 25% and 125% to reach the hard cap. Everyone could find ways to hit the cap for MF% on their gear and then stop.
Pros: Creates a gearing-game around trying to hit the "MF% cap" that some players enjoy. It also solves the swapping issue for people with enough gear to hit the cap. Players who want to min-max and gear swap can do so, and players who think it's stupid but feel "compelled" can try to hit the new cap instead.
Cons: Depending on where the cap is set, it may not actually alleviate gear swapping, and players who wish they didn't have to will feel compelled to do so. It also devalues a highly valuable stat, and desired stats mean desired gear, which helps diversify the item hunt.
Option 2: Slowly Adjust Magic Find Over Time
When you equip an item with Magic Find, we don't let your MF% change right away. Instead your Magic Find slowly "drifts" towards the target Magic Find -- potentially something like 1% every 3 seconds. If you open up your Character Details sheet, you can see the number change "8%... 9%... 10%." Even though you could in theory switch to Magic Find gear for the killing blow and get a few extra percent, it�s probably not worth it.
Pros: High degree of visibility as your stat sheet updates. Still allows you to swap your gear when you get an upgrade in the world without having to feel bad about putting the item on.
Cons: May not alleviate the problem for players who still feel compelled to get a few extra MF%. Depending on the rate, some players may just swap in an item during the last 20 seconds of a fight even though they don't want to.
Option 3: Use your average MF% or your lowest MF% of the last 5 minutes
We could sample your MF% every 30 seconds or so and create a moving average, or use the lowest MF% the game has seen on your character in the last few minutes.
Pros: A lot of the same benefits as Solution 2, but harder to game. Still allows you to switch gear when you get an upgrade, which is great.
Cons: Difficult to communicate. We'd have to communicate this on the Details page somehow, but during normal gameplay there could be the sense of not knowing what your "moving average" is and wanting to look at it. Magic Find is already a difficult number to feel at any point in time, so hidden rules that modify Magic Find feel that much worse.
Option 4: Zero-Out Your MF% for 3 Minutes After Swapping Gear
When you swap gear, your Magic Find is disabled for 3 minutes.
Pros: Absolutely effective at discouraging gear swaps. Still allows you to swap gear when you find an upgrade, and the 3 minute duration is probably short enough that if you kill an Elite pack and get an upgrade, you can put that upgrade on and have your Magic Find active again by the time you get to the next pack.
Cons: Players who are unfamiliar with the system may open up their details page and see their Magic Find as 0% and not understand why. We could mitigate this by making the 0% MF colored with a tooltip stating the countdown until your Magic Find would work again, as well as what your Magic Find will be when the time expires.
Option 5: Gear Swapping Interacts with Nephalem Valor
There's a whole class of solutions that interact with Nephalem Valor. For example, we could remove a stack of Nephalem Valor when you swap a piece of gear.
Pros: Stops gear swapping just for the last kill, while still allowing the player the option to do so.
Cons: Some players will lose a stack by accident. We could put a confirmation box in to address accidental loss of a stack, but game-interrupting popups are potentially character-killing. It also causes co-op players to drop out of sync. One person may switch gear and lose a stack or two, and if it happens before a boss they'll want to clear two more packs before hitting the boss, but the other party members may not want to -- causing some tense social situations in co-op play. Finally, it tightly couples two systems together and generally tightly-coupled systems don't function over the long haul as well as loosely-coupled systems. In other words, future changes to the Nephalem Valor system or the Magic Find system (or systems related to those two systems) become harder to make as both systems would be impacted.
While we're having our own discussions and tests of how well these options could work, we�re interested to hear your thoughts. We'd mainly like to hear which approaches you like, if there are any specifics you like or don't like about it, and why. Having the context of how this affects you personally really helps us.
We're going to be locking down comments in this article to focus feedback to one location, so please head to the forum thread link below to discuss.
It's worth keeping in mind that if we do implement a method to alleviate gear-swapping in combat, we'll simultaneously be looking at ways for players to get an added MF bonus to compensate.
Here are the solutions we're currently considering, and would appreciate your feedback and opinion on what seems the most reasonable for you, and why:
Option 1: Set a Magic Find Cap
We could set an MF cap between something like 100% and 200%. Nephalem Valor provides 75%, so you would need between 25% and 125% to reach the hard cap. Everyone could find ways to hit the cap for MF% on their gear and then stop.
Pros: Creates a gearing-game around trying to hit the "MF% cap" that some players enjoy. It also solves the swapping issue for people with enough gear to hit the cap. Players who want to min-max and gear swap can do so, and players who think it's stupid but feel "compelled" can try to hit the new cap instead.
Cons: Depending on where the cap is set, it may not actually alleviate gear swapping, and players who wish they didn't have to will feel compelled to do so. It also devalues a highly valuable stat, and desired stats mean desired gear, which helps diversify the item hunt.
Option 2: Slowly Adjust Magic Find Over Time
When you equip an item with Magic Find, we don't let your MF% change right away. Instead your Magic Find slowly "drifts" towards the target Magic Find -- potentially something like 1% every 3 seconds. If you open up your Character Details sheet, you can see the number change "8%... 9%... 10%." Even though you could in theory switch to Magic Find gear for the killing blow and get a few extra percent, it�s probably not worth it.
Pros: High degree of visibility as your stat sheet updates. Still allows you to swap your gear when you get an upgrade in the world without having to feel bad about putting the item on.
Cons: May not alleviate the problem for players who still feel compelled to get a few extra MF%. Depending on the rate, some players may just swap in an item during the last 20 seconds of a fight even though they don't want to.
Option 3: Use your average MF% or your lowest MF% of the last 5 minutes
We could sample your MF% every 30 seconds or so and create a moving average, or use the lowest MF% the game has seen on your character in the last few minutes.
Pros: A lot of the same benefits as Solution 2, but harder to game. Still allows you to switch gear when you get an upgrade, which is great.
Cons: Difficult to communicate. We'd have to communicate this on the Details page somehow, but during normal gameplay there could be the sense of not knowing what your "moving average" is and wanting to look at it. Magic Find is already a difficult number to feel at any point in time, so hidden rules that modify Magic Find feel that much worse.
Option 4: Zero-Out Your MF% for 3 Minutes After Swapping Gear
When you swap gear, your Magic Find is disabled for 3 minutes.
Pros: Absolutely effective at discouraging gear swaps. Still allows you to swap gear when you find an upgrade, and the 3 minute duration is probably short enough that if you kill an Elite pack and get an upgrade, you can put that upgrade on and have your Magic Find active again by the time you get to the next pack.
Cons: Players who are unfamiliar with the system may open up their details page and see their Magic Find as 0% and not understand why. We could mitigate this by making the 0% MF colored with a tooltip stating the countdown until your Magic Find would work again, as well as what your Magic Find will be when the time expires.
Option 5: Gear Swapping Interacts with Nephalem Valor
There's a whole class of solutions that interact with Nephalem Valor. For example, we could remove a stack of Nephalem Valor when you swap a piece of gear.
Pros: Stops gear swapping just for the last kill, while still allowing the player the option to do so.
Cons: Some players will lose a stack by accident. We could put a confirmation box in to address accidental loss of a stack, but game-interrupting popups are potentially character-killing. It also causes co-op players to drop out of sync. One person may switch gear and lose a stack or two, and if it happens before a boss they'll want to clear two more packs before hitting the boss, but the other party members may not want to -- causing some tense social situations in co-op play. Finally, it tightly couples two systems together and generally tightly-coupled systems don't function over the long haul as well as loosely-coupled systems. In other words, future changes to the Nephalem Valor system or the Magic Find system (or systems related to those two systems) become harder to make as both systems would be impacted.
While we're having our own discussions and tests of how well these options could work, we�re interested to hear your thoughts. We'd mainly like to hear which approaches you like, if there are any specifics you like or don't like about it, and why. Having the context of how this affects you personally really helps us.
We're going to be locking down comments in this article to focus feedback to one location, so please head to the forum thread link below to discuss.
RMAH Commodities Coming Soon, Gold Not Included Initially
The RMAH Commodities will soon go live. However gold will not be one of the features going live at first .
Originally Posted by Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
(The following commodities will be available soon for trading in the real-money auction house:
- Gems
- Dyes
- Crafting Materials
- Blacksmithing Plans and Jeweler Designs
- Pages of Training
What are you babbling about? It's ridiculous to "have to" switch mf gear before a kill just because it's more efficient, it's not Blizzard trying to tell us how to play the game. They never do. Stop with that conspiracy, kiddo.
Because a multi-million dollar company like Activision-Blizzard doesn't have multiple teams to handle different issues and priorities.
You win the reasoning award.
I would be surprised if they have more than 3 teams after launch, we already know 1 team is working on PVP and 1 team is working on the 1.0.4 legendaries patch. So the 3rd biggest thing is MF swapping?
Option 4 is the most decent one, but still kinda bad.
I tend to be agree more with what you're saying. It's hard fight Blizzard is trying to win here. All there options are horrid fixes, that only add in further time delays or "punishments"
To further your idea, and really the only idea that MF will work as intended (via Blizzards point of view) without Nerfing the crap out of it would be either one of the following two options:
A.) Have the game client check MF% of character (group) on first hit of mob, and last hit of mob. Take value that is lower (non-swapped gear MF% value) use that for actual MF%
B.) Build in an "In-Combat" and "Out-of-Combat" system. Blizzard has stated Diablo 3 does NOT have this, it is an open world. This would be the much trickier option, but would other good things as making it much easier to give us dueling.
These are really the only two options they have, if they don't want to touch MF in anyway, keep it working the same, but stop the swapping out right.
That's why I created a macro to do it for me, because it's tedious and not fun at all.
Option 4 please.
Babbling, kiddo, conspiracy ?
After reading my post, I really fail to see any of those things in there. I never once said anything about a conspiracy.
It is a simple fact that players are leaving. Choices like THIS are not helping that fact. The player base is decreasing with every new patch/ hotfix.
There is no "Having to" switch gear just before a kill. That is a practice that certain people do and it is their choice. It is not a prerequisite. I for instance "Do Not" switch gear, but I think that there should be a choice whether we do or not. The changes that have been made to this game have in fact made players select certain skills/ builds/ gear. The very things that Blizzard stated while marketing the game when first announced and throughout production they were designing it to combat.
Telling us to play the game one way is something that has not been done, but when you remove the viability of skills by nerfing their duration/ effectiveness, removing/ decreasing drops in certain areas, or requiring that massive amounts of Resistances in order to survive in Inferno as melee classes, that IS, in fact dictating how the game needs to be played.
That is not a conspiracy theory. It is a point of fact, and if you cannot see that, I am sorry.
Add a new item called "Greed Stone" it is legendary in color and drops off the first Treasure Goblin you kill. This stone works as a UI element like the old Cauldron of Jordan. You "sacrifice" items to the greed stone to increase your MF/GF%'s. 1% per item unless the item has MF/GF% on it. If an Item has MF/GF% on it you will gain 1/4th of the GF/MF value on the item. bam MF/GF swapping issues alleviated + an item sink. At this point a hardcap on MF/GF% would be alright however it still would have to be high.. like in the 600% range maybe.. Or just Hardcap the % on the greed stone itself.
Option 7:
Reinstate the Mystic Artisan NPC. Have her enchant gear with MF/GF/Health Globe/Pickup Radius to a certain amount per item. (1 stat per item) Have it cost a large amount of gold as you get closer to the max cap for that bonus on an item. Bring back the Charms system. Small Charms (1 slot) and Large Charms (2 slots) can be a drop from mobs in the game. To increase the bonuses on them (thinking the same bonuses as the enchant options. no main/dps stats) you bring the charms to the Mystic and pay money+items to increase the bonus on those charms.
Something like this:
( ) Option 1
( ) Option 2
( ) Option 3
( ) Option 4
( ) Option 5
( ) Something needs to be done, but there are better options than 1-5.
( ) Leave it alone
Just so we don't have to read a hundred-page thread on blizzard forums post by post to see where the majority is heading.
I honestly like this idea. However, it would only pay off to those who are willing to just stick in games for a long duration. That could lead to more people complaining about how it is detrimental to those who want to do fast runs.
I personally would use it, but I have a feeling that something like this would be frowned upon by a large percentage of the player base.
The greed stone would basically be a permanent item for that character. It would transfer from act 1 normal all the way to act 4 Inferno. It would not act like NV stacks at all. (In that they disappear each act/game change) It would be a permanent addition to the character that would grow with the character as long as they dump items into it. Hell to prevent massive amounts of MF/GF at lower levels you can put softcaps on it tied to your character level. so say the max you can have on it at level 30 (end of normal usually) is 50% Once you hit 58+ the soft cap that was there as you leveled disappears.
This has become ridiculous. They wonder why their fans RAGE at them?! Because of blog posts like this where it's obvious that they have 0 connection to their fan base. I literally read all of the options and thought "what the fuck are they thinking?"
1 - NO NO and NO. If you cap MF, at "something between 100% and 200%" you take away 200%+ of potential and RUIN the MF game.
2 - Really... so now we have to wait 5 minutes before going to find that first champ pack? No. Try again.
3 - This just sounds like a nightmare - both on their end and the players'.
4 - Best option imo, but still really not effective. "Hey guys, I found an upgrade! Uhhh... let's take a 3 min bathroom/drink break?" *3 minutes later* "You guys are gonna hate me... found new bracers now too..." Kind of kills the whole A-RPG flow of play. Maybe make it 1 minute? It would ruin quick swap goblin kills and would cause issues with elite packs and bosses. 3 minutes just seems like an eternity.
5 - No... Just another reason not to play co-op. As it is I already find myself telling friends w/o at least 150 mf not to join my games. And when they join when I have 5 stacks it's already frustrating. Now I have to rely on them remembering that they can't switch out their gear when they find an upgrade too? No.
Solution? Leave it the way it is. They keep calling it a "problem". It isn't a problem. It's a style of play that honestly most people are too lazy to take advantage of. Let people with 1/2 full inventory of MF gear play that way. They have to make twice as many trips to town and honestly I've learned to gear with str/vit/resist-all/mf on my barb in order to be both viable and have competitive mf.
There is no "combat" system in Diablo. There was some issue that came up during beta (can't remember what it was) but Bashiok posted that there is no combat system and in order to add such a system would require them to do a large overhaul of the game.
WHY listen a few crying babies? Let those MF players change their equips and play whenever they want! It's good even for them cuz more itens in AH means cheaper itens! Its a simple supply and demand logic.
U don't need to play changing your equip, so u can kill mobs faster then those guys, make more money and can buy those itens in AH.
Blizzard interfering on that is really awkward! I understand that D3 machanics are much more (simple) different than D2 and it was frustrating in the first moment but all the real gamers are fine with that now. All because we find one way to find a better way to play.
Particularly i dont have a MF set and play with my "war set". I don't see anything wrong with those players, it's just a diferent tactic!
Bliz should start to head the real players... i know this guys provide less profit cuz they can make they own luck but they are the real voice to advance.
In time, sorry for my english!
EDIT: If u need to change it anyway, why not apply status just in city?
The status just refresh in city so the player need to enter in town before the change take effect! Simple and shut those noobs mouth
This is bullshit. They make you take durability while in combat even when you take or deal no damage. They absolutely can tell you are in combat. If for some mind-warping reason they can't (which again is already proven to be possible by the durability wear-and-tear mechanic), they can simply have a hidden debuff that prevents gear swapping for 10 seconds after taking or dealing damage.
Personally I dislike all of the choices but I agree there's a problem. I dislike them because all of the choices have negative effects that hurt people beyond the group that wants to switch gear right before a champion kill.
#4 is the 2nd worst offender and I think the only people voting for it are oblivious to the way many people play the game. Some people have multiple gear sets and for example, switch in a shield while encountering specific affixes. #4 and especially #5 completely removes this option from the game.
Any solution that has side effects is a poorly thought out solution.
I feel like we're playing a game of Calvinball. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_and_Hobbes#Calvinball
It seems that each of the options have some sort of negative effect on some part of the player base.
Option 1: Setting a cap
This is detracting to those who have spent many millions of gold or real currency to get significant amounts of MF whether it is a set to switch to or not..
Option 2: MF over time
If you have 300+% MF that is over 15 minutes to wait if you have a set that you have already taken the time to build.
Option 3: MF moving average
Overly complex and hard to communicate. This will only confuse many and cause players to want to look at their details page during fights..
Option 4: 0% MF for 3 minutes
The lesser of 5 evils I guess.. Least downtime of MF. But still not a polished option.
Option 5: remove NVB on gear swap
This is probably the worst as it not only adversely effects those who MF gear swap but those that have more than 1 weapon set.
If they didn't want gear swapping they should have changed the functionality when the game was in development. MF gear swapping has been around since D2 this is not a new concept. This is a Live game with millions of players, many of which have spent real currency to gear their characters. Instead of trying to remove or decrease effectiveness of one of the most important features/aspects of the game they should embrace that people want to have more than 1 set of gear. There should not be a penalty for changing gear, make changing gear better and easier. If it is the most efficient way to get the best gear and many are using it. maybe more people would follow the most efficient way to play the game if it was fully implemented.
D2 had the infamous 'W' swap key. This was genius! Simple, enough to switch in over 100MF, and wasn't only used for MF either. I for one truly miss the extra weapon set. Maybe take it a step further and have another gear tab that is easily switched to, offensive/defensive, offensive/MF, etc. While we are at it, maybe allow us to save 2 or more skill specs to switch to.
I guess what I'm getting at is embrace what some players ARE doing, with great benefit, not penalize all players. In most of the "options" that development staff has come up with their is a lot of collateral damage. I feel like many of the options are nuclear options.. Don't nuke the player base..
Lastly, I feel that many service improvements should take precedence to this and any other overall negative effect on the players.
FYI: I do not personally run with any MF and have not spent money on the AH (real or gold) on MF gear. I do however switch weapons and off hand occasionally (in and out of town) and many of these "options" would make my gameplay experience worse.