Unfortunately, that begs a much larger question: Will any non-Sword and Board builds be MP3+ viable irrespective of gear without lifesteal?
I really hope so. I very much hope that they aren't killing anything not "tanky" because of the OP WW build. That would be a gross overreaction and more than unfortunate.
Well, that's all fine for those with the skill/gear for mp10, but I'm more of an mp3 ham-n-egger.
Now, I've only been playing with this cleave build for maybe 10-20 hours or so since I came back and my skill is improving, but I dunno if I'll ever be more than an mp5 player. I dunno because I've never seen it live. Videos don't do it justice.
I guess I'm wondering like I wrote before that for Blizz, they sought to nerf a really OP spec and are "nuking the neighborhood."
I seriously doubt that health will get very much of a buff such that Rend > Blood Lust will function remotely the same.
And as we saw with 1.03, if you even slightly undertune melee with hard hitting mobs, it's just not fun. I remember getting one shot by those leaping things in the beginning of act 2 inferno while avoiding those wasps. And that was with 50k health, 600RA and not terrible defensive stats.
I'm okay with trying new builds even though I really like this Cleave/Rend build.
I just don't want to have to be relegated to a sword and board, turtle type build. I hope that Barbs will retain some build diversity. Frankly, and correct me if I'm off base here, I think these changes put some pretty heavy contraction on that diversity and homogenizes it a fair bit. As you say, we'll be looking for more health, more ways to create life restore and have all of that work with creating some kind of synergistic damage on target(s). It just doesn't look currently like a whole lot of non-sword and board builds are gonna be rockin' unless they are super geared.
Well, right. So, with that 1.8%, I'm seeing 1440 per mob on my rends in Act 3 MP3 Inferno.
Even if I had 85k, I'd be seeing 425 per mob. That still seems like a really big nerf for Cleave/Rend builds.
I can understand why they'd want to do something about WW builds since they found a way to oversynergize them to the point where folks could just stay SuperSaiyan twirlin'...
However, what worries me is that by changing Rend the way they are, I worry that the only viability will be high hp sword and board builds which, frankly, bore me to death. Worse, because the dps tends to be so much lower on those builds with such high survivability, the feel of play seems more like a chore than fun.
I wish this concern was unfounded, but we've seen them want to nerf an OP spec and "nuke the neighborhood" instead, only to come back later, look at the crater and say, "uh....oops."
I'll admit it. I'm a little invested. I really like the Cleve/Rend build. I never wanted to play a WW barb and didn't go there even when it was OP. I only went S&B initially because Act 2 Inferno white mobs were one shotting my friends and I was barely surviving with the shield (before I took my extended break...around 1.03 or so...way before the introduction of MP). But Cleve/Rend with a giant 2H is exactly where I want to be.
Sits right. I know builds don't tend to last forever, but doggone it, this is a fun build. Doesn't seem OP and seems to fit the "role" of the class.
I recently came back to D3 and have enjoyed the changes. I have liked the changes to my DH enough (though mostly for group play and pvp which is actually very fun on the DH). Moreover, I have very, very much enjoyed the changes to the barb.
I have just LOVED that I didn't have to go sword and board and found a cleave/rend build that gave me solid survivability coupled with decent damage. I started with pretty crap gear and with a few decent upgrades, I find that I'm farming MP3 with enough ease that I am ready to step up to MP4 in Act 3 and see how that goes.
Then the other day, I saw the huge datamine for each class for RoS and I was shocked. I realize it's a very early PTR datamine and things change.
Still, from what I can see, they've castrated Rend. Without Rend, WW and Cleve builds aren't viable unless I'm missing something. The change I saw is that currently, Rend with Bloodthirst rune will heal for 9% of dmg done per mob afflicted per second. Considering Rend is 700% of weapon dmg, it's a very powerful tool to wade into a sea of powerful monsters with confidence and hack and slash them to death as a Barbarian should. In RoS, the Bloodthirst rune changes from 9% of dmg done to 0.5% of maximum health per mob.
Considering even the best geared Barbs run with around 50k health, that's only 250 health per second per mob. If I read my health text, I currently get around 1440 health per second per mob with Rend as it currently is so, again, if I have it correct, this is a really big nerf, especially when it comes to boss/elite pack fights where there aren't lots of mobs bleed.
So...I'm just wondering if Cleve/Rend or really any Rend builds are going be viable with basically a low fixed number as the dynamic range of health for barbs is narrow, from 42k at the low end to maybe 60k non-shield? I mean, no matter how much they adjust that figure, making Rend rely on maximum health versus the way it is now basically kills it, doesn't it?
Or am I missing something in my napkin math?
Again, I know it's super early. I'm not trying to be reactionary, I'm just trying to understand what the datamined changes 'could' mean and the in a reasonable fashion advocate for positive change so that I can continue to enjoy my barb, which frankly, is about as much fun as I've had in a long time playing a Blizz game.
0
Unfortunately, that begs a much larger question: Will any non-Sword and Board builds be MP3+ viable irrespective of gear without lifesteal?
I really hope so. I very much hope that they aren't killing anything not "tanky" because of the OP WW build. That would be a gross overreaction and more than unfortunate.
0
Now, I've only been playing with this cleave build for maybe 10-20 hours or so since I came back and my skill is improving, but I dunno if I'll ever be more than an mp5 player. I dunno because I've never seen it live. Videos don't do it justice.
I guess I'm wondering like I wrote before that for Blizz, they sought to nerf a really OP spec and are "nuking the neighborhood."
I seriously doubt that health will get very much of a buff such that Rend > Blood Lust will function remotely the same.
And as we saw with 1.03, if you even slightly undertune melee with hard hitting mobs, it's just not fun. I remember getting one shot by those leaping things in the beginning of act 2 inferno while avoiding those wasps. And that was with 50k health, 600RA and not terrible defensive stats.
I'm okay with trying new builds even though I really like this Cleave/Rend build.
I just don't want to have to be relegated to a sword and board, turtle type build. I hope that Barbs will retain some build diversity. Frankly, and correct me if I'm off base here, I think these changes put some pretty heavy contraction on that diversity and homogenizes it a fair bit. As you say, we'll be looking for more health, more ways to create life restore and have all of that work with creating some kind of synergistic damage on target(s). It just doesn't look currently like a whole lot of non-sword and board builds are gonna be rockin' unless they are super geared.
0
Even if I had 85k, I'd be seeing 425 per mob. That still seems like a really big nerf for Cleave/Rend builds.
I can understand why they'd want to do something about WW builds since they found a way to oversynergize them to the point where folks could just stay SuperSaiyan twirlin'...
However, what worries me is that by changing Rend the way they are, I worry that the only viability will be high hp sword and board builds which, frankly, bore me to death. Worse, because the dps tends to be so much lower on those builds with such high survivability, the feel of play seems more like a chore than fun.
I wish this concern was unfounded, but we've seen them want to nerf an OP spec and "nuke the neighborhood" instead, only to come back later, look at the crater and say, "uh....oops."
I'll admit it. I'm a little invested. I really like the Cleve/Rend build. I never wanted to play a WW barb and didn't go there even when it was OP. I only went S&B initially because Act 2 Inferno white mobs were one shotting my friends and I was barely surviving with the shield (before I took my extended break...around 1.03 or so...way before the introduction of MP). But Cleve/Rend with a giant 2H is exactly where I want to be.
Sits right. I know builds don't tend to last forever, but doggone it, this is a fun build. Doesn't seem OP and seems to fit the "role" of the class.
0
I have just LOVED that I didn't have to go sword and board and found a cleave/rend build that gave me solid survivability coupled with decent damage. I started with pretty crap gear and with a few decent upgrades, I find that I'm farming MP3 with enough ease that I am ready to step up to MP4 in Act 3 and see how that goes.
Then the other day, I saw the huge datamine for each class for RoS and I was shocked. I realize it's a very early PTR datamine and things change.
Still, from what I can see, they've castrated Rend. Without Rend, WW and Cleve builds aren't viable unless I'm missing something. The change I saw is that currently, Rend with Bloodthirst rune will heal for 9% of dmg done per mob afflicted per second. Considering Rend is 700% of weapon dmg, it's a very powerful tool to wade into a sea of powerful monsters with confidence and hack and slash them to death as a Barbarian should. In RoS, the Bloodthirst rune changes from 9% of dmg done to 0.5% of maximum health per mob.
Considering even the best geared Barbs run with around 50k health, that's only 250 health per second per mob. If I read my health text, I currently get around 1440 health per second per mob with Rend as it currently is so, again, if I have it correct, this is a really big nerf, especially when it comes to boss/elite pack fights where there aren't lots of mobs bleed.
So...I'm just wondering if Cleve/Rend or really any Rend builds are going be viable with basically a low fixed number as the dynamic range of health for barbs is narrow, from 42k at the low end to maybe 60k non-shield? I mean, no matter how much they adjust that figure, making Rend rely on maximum health versus the way it is now basically kills it, doesn't it?
Or am I missing something in my napkin math?
Again, I know it's super early. I'm not trying to be reactionary, I'm just trying to understand what the datamined changes 'could' mean and the in a reasonable fashion advocate for positive change so that I can continue to enjoy my barb, which frankly, is about as much fun as I've had in a long time playing a Blizz game.
Sorry, my profile for build purposes