Again my opinion isn't that a captcha should be implmented, it's that this is a simple solution. You 3 raise good points on how captcha's can be circumvented, but it still doesn't explain why NOTHING is being done about this.
I definitely see how the economy is setup to fail from beginning with no gold sinks, but the bots played a MASSIVE role in speeding it up, not a bit, not small, but HUGE. If botting was non-existant, I don't think gold would be at 10m for .25C only a year after release.
fixD3... If they implemented captcha's I would stop logging in and that isn't a BS answer, it's perfectly truthful.
I hate them. I can barely ever read them and often have to type them in multiple times before I get them correct. I've even had sites temp ban me for getting them wrong so many times in a row.
They are the most frustrating pile of crap anti-bot mechanic out there.
So your alternative solution is, none?
If you would stop logging in, pray tell, why would you continue to try to use them multiple times on other sources? Ohh because it's not that big of an inconvenience when you need to use them to access something you want to access.
Browser based game where source file of captcha can be grabbed. Not only that but it relies on other people to enter the captcha's for you.
A large amount simply use(d) the screen capture feature in windows to avoid touching active game files.
People are actually reliable when it comes to equal benefited cheating
Are you saying that the captcha would be a bigger inconvenience for you as a player than it would be for cheaters, despite the fact that without it, the gold economy has been destroyed completely?
I am not going to try and and answer a so ridiculously leading question.
So then what are you saying? All I can interpret is that you say captcha's can be cracked via crowd sourced networks. Not going into how long/unefficient this would be compared to having NOTHING, then your point is, don't implement it because ...?
"OHH NO CAPTCHA WILL BE SO ANNOYING" said the fanbase that still has to take an average of 10 -15 seconds to create a new game, but its over if you add 5 more seconds to that time.
I'm sorry but I hate a single captcha to sign up for a fuckin forum once every few months. Once per D3 game? No thanks. If that's the ONLY way to combat botting and Blizzard implemented it, I would stop logging in.
There is no reason to penalize people who aren't botting by forcing them to dicipher captchas for new games. That *IS* bad design. The first rule of online games is never to punish people who haven't done anything wrong. I'm not botting, why should I be stuck muddling through captchas once per game?
I'd rather have botters "ruining" the game than dumbshit suggestions like this ruining the game.
Congrats on making a suggestion that is actually worse than the problem. And congrats on necroing a thread.
EDIT
Also, do you really think Blizzard hasn't weighed out the pros/cons on captchas? I don't see any other major online game requiring captcha on login or game creation. If it's such a good solution then I'd think other major developers would use it... yes?
This is the ONLY way to combat it? NO, it is by far the simplest. and you would stop logging in? please enough with the bs lies, if after all this flaws in the game you still log in you wouldn't just "stop" if something meant to help normal players was implemented.
So you claim "The first rule of online games is never to punish people who haven't done anything wrong" I would love a copy of this documentation. But lets ignore the fact that you pull statements like this out of your ass, and actually focus on the statement. Am I doing something wrong when I double click my shortcut to play? NO? Why am I being forced to enter a user name and password though? WHY AM I BEING PUNISHED?
Ohh no I "necrod a thread" sorry to say that I stick to my points and reasoning months after I express those feelings. I saw no reason to create a new thread, yet have not see any suggestions even closely resembling anything to do with how to pro-actively prevent botting, so this is the appropriate thread to discuss it.
Who said they haven't thought about it? I asked why they haven't implemented it. And you don't see any other major game use it because they don't have a problem with botting, this is a simple solution to prevent botting. Other games don't have problems with bots because they don't create the environment for them to thrive in. Good job on pointless comparison.
There is quite a few different crowd sourced capta breaking networks out there.
I use to be part of one when cheating in Runescape classic. It was set up so that i had to be at the computer for 20 minutes every 3 hours, typing in captas.
And in return, my bots captas was added to the network queue when i was away. Simple.
Browser based game where source file of captcha can be grabbed. Not only that but it relies on other people to enter the captcha's for you.
Are you saying that the captcha would be a bigger inconvenience for you as a player than it would be for cheaters, despite the fact that without it, the gold economy has been destroyed completely?
Guys, the OP wasn't even talking about having a CAPTCHA on each login. He says we should have a CAPTCHA on EVERY GAME CREATION. Which is even worse rofl, I for one would quit instantly, I get annoyed enough by CAPTCHA as it is and I have to answer one like once monthly on random sites.
Having CAPTCHA upon game creation would possibly stop botting; but it would also stop normal playing. So a horrible horrible solution.
Yep so do nothing and let bots destroy the game.
You guys clearly work for Blizzard with this kind of logic.
"OHH NO CAPTCHA WILL BE SO ANNOYING" said the fanbase that still has to take an average of 10 -15 seconds to create a new game, but its over if you add 5 more seconds to that time.
You also claim this will be "worse to players", what players? Bot and game design have squashed 10million accounts, and you think that having to type in a captcha once every game creation, which if you are playing the game as intended (building up 5 stacks of nv, farming, moving to next act, farming, ect, THEN NEW GAME) you wouldn't have to enter a new captcha for at least 30-45 minutes.
So in your minds, 5 second delay every 30-45 minutes would ruin the game, but having bots rape and pillage every feasible source of game progression for now over 1 year, that's "BETTER" than having to enter a captcha.
PLUS the mentioning of cracking software/paying people to crack captcha is the biggest LOL in this thread. Where are your references to captchas being "cracked for years"? Yes captchas are crackable, the same way your car is crackable and your house lock is crackable, yet you still lock them both everyday don't you? Is it a terrible inconvenience that you have to unlock those every time you use them? There has been so much research showing that EFFECTIVE captcha's, those that use rotation, different colors/backgrounds, blurs, and waves are nearly impossible for a software program to crack.
So point proven that no one here actually considers real life solutions to these blatantly obvious flaws in the game, like gold botting, how this is a problem in 2013 with a game that has had 11 years in development is mind boggling, and point proven again this this was presented as a "simple solution" not anything complex or in-depth, yet as a simple solution it could be implemented in a day, and stop 90% of automated botting. GG forum.
This is mind boggling. So you are saying they have the development and design experienced needed to implement this into the game, because they have already done it, but its just "too hard".
Or are you saying that adding this will make it more like the other game?
Well then why did they include yellow quest markers, male and female classes, achievements, damage numbers, hp bars, ect. ect.
Because these aren't WoW features just because they are in WoW, they are just features. Saying, "NO DON'T MAKE IT LIKE WOW" is foolish since WoW took many of its features from Diablo 2.
People want to see features from other games because, gosh, they are fun... But hey, I'm just a troll so discount my opinion and points.
There are a lot of possibilities with potion effects, and I think it's an interesting topic. It certainly doesn't hurt to talk about your ideas, and I'd be happy to pass along your suggestions.
Dyes for armor are already useless since you can't change legendary armor except making it invisible.
I just wanted to point out that this is still in the works. I know it's been a long time, but it's still on the way. I'll quoteVaeflare to give a little more insight on the subject.
We’re definitely working on making all dyes work for Legendary items. It’s not a quick-fix, though; as Fearophobias surmised, our artists actually need to go back and redo the textures on all the Legendaries in order to make them dye-compatible.
Find Legendary skin image file -> Open Photoshop -> Add "Hue & Saturation" effect -> Adjust for desired color -> Save for Web.
Most players are discouraged to play the game when they know botting occurs, it makes them think their time playing is less valuable; why would I buy from you or Blizz when there is a black market selling for much cheaper?
So, Blizz has been appeasing players by doing ban waves.
But this type of action is called re-active, and it does not help the player at all. Some players promote the conspiracy theory that Blizz focuses on this re-active approach because botters generate lots of money for them, through License sales and AH transaction fees, personally, I find this theory interesting but cannot believe it without evidence.
But, it makes me think twice about this theory, because there is an incredibly simple solution to botters. Perhaps it is a bit crude, but it is a solution nonetheless.
Captcha for game creation. Plain and simple.
They could use Re-captcha, not only would this limit bot users to having to enter captcha's everytime they want to create a game (discouraging the botters from using their programs, instead of the player from playing the game) but it would also benefit the world at large (look up re-captcha if you are confused how).
So, why has Blizzard not implemented this if they are indeed interested in removing bots from the game?
He's CEO of Activision for 23 years now. As "salary" for his job he gets a lot of stocks every year.
The amount of stocks is constantly in fluctuation, I don't know what kind of numbers you're making up here. Besides, he's CEO of Activision, and initiated the merge with Blizzard in 2008. No idea how many stocks they had at this time. I still don't know what you're getting at, as CEO he has a lot of stocks of his company, and he's trading them constantly, for people like him selling stocks is the same as for us going to the ATM and withdrawing $100 from our bank account.
So, if you did not intend to hint at insider trading, what else was the purpose of this post? To tell us that the owner of Activision Blizzard (and not the person who "runs the Blizzard ship" as you falsely stated) is a capitalistic manager? Guess what, if you're not like that, you're not CEO for 23 years. And he's no saint, it's commonly known, so no news at all.
My apologies I should have showed my numbers, since the post was about when he purchased the stocks and the response was 25% of blizzards stocks were purchased in 1990 I followed this train of thought: we know that the 800k+ stick shares figure is true, also one of the other posters shared he found two other cases of Kotick selling stocks, so I assume since we cannot see the future, that this time Kotick sold all his remaining stock, assuming he sold a third each time. 1/3 of 25 is ~8 so 8% of all blizzard stocks equals to 800k+ that Kotick sold, would make 100% around 6million. But you are right, I am making these up.
Well I would say that I'm busted and should have searched for more information except for one minor point, where are the records of Kotick ever BUYING the shares...
And by being CEO, you get a ton of options along the way as part of your salary. At some point you cash out.
Just read the wiki page - he's a gambling broker. He has no interest in the gaming business, he just wants to earn money.
But your initial post, hinting that he does some insider trading, is ridiculous; like shaggy said, why would a man who is a multiple millionaire risk getting busted for a mere 200k earned by insider trading using stocks from the company he is CEO of?
This entire thread is making me sick. "Oh my god, some capitalist is making money!" - yeah, that's the world we live in. You obviously just wanted to vent. And now I'm venting... meh.
Didn't intend to make you sick.
I don't think it's accurate to say that 25% of the stocks purchased in 1990 would represent the stocks being traded in recent years. If it was accurate that would mean blizzard had over 6million stock shares in 1990.
OH NOES, SOMEONE CALL THE FBI, HOMELAND SECURITY, THE INTERPOL, THE UN!!!!
Sorry, I didn't receive the memo that says making money is illegal nowadays let's arrest every single "stockholder" that makes money by selling his shares.
The company is growing, the games are more succesful than ever (while the whole games market is in sort of a crisis) and Blizzard not only is more alive than ever with its 3 franchises, they're also releasing more products (card game, Titan, unnanounced game) than ever.
They have never been so active in banning people. providing proper customer support (I've had tickets answered in hours) and updating/changing their games to value customer feedback - so what's the big fucking deal?
EVEN IF he had a say in how Blizzard is managed or how games are developed (which he doesn't, being CEO of a company entails things "slightly" different than that), he's not breaking the company by selling shares and making money.
Sorry I was posting on a web forum just to see what other gamers thought, perhaps I should have gone to the UN? Plus in my OP it's clearly just a factual statement followed by me saying "this is the kind of person" I never said it was good or bad, all inferred opinions were formulated in the minds of the reader. I guess some people take their forum moderation jobs very seriously.
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Again my opinion isn't that a captcha should be implmented, it's that this is a simple solution. You 3 raise good points on how captcha's can be circumvented, but it still doesn't explain why NOTHING is being done about this.
I definitely see how the economy is setup to fail from beginning with no gold sinks, but the bots played a MASSIVE role in speeding it up, not a bit, not small, but HUGE. If botting was non-existant, I don't think gold would be at 10m for .25C only a year after release.
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So your alternative solution is, none?
If you would stop logging in, pray tell, why would you continue to try to use them multiple times on other sources? Ohh because it's not that big of an inconvenience when you need to use them to access something you want to access.
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So then what are you saying? All I can interpret is that you say captcha's can be cracked via crowd sourced networks. Not going into how long/unefficient this would be compared to having NOTHING, then your point is, don't implement it because ...?
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This is the ONLY way to combat it? NO, it is by far the simplest. and you would stop logging in? please enough with the bs lies, if after all this flaws in the game you still log in you wouldn't just "stop" if something meant to help normal players was implemented.
So you claim "The first rule of online games is never to punish people who haven't done anything wrong" I would love a copy of this documentation. But lets ignore the fact that you pull statements like this out of your ass, and actually focus on the statement. Am I doing something wrong when I double click my shortcut to play? NO? Why am I being forced to enter a user name and password though? WHY AM I BEING PUNISHED?
Ohh no I "necrod a thread" sorry to say that I stick to my points and reasoning months after I express those feelings. I saw no reason to create a new thread, yet have not see any suggestions even closely resembling anything to do with how to pro-actively prevent botting, so this is the appropriate thread to discuss it.
Who said they haven't thought about it? I asked why they haven't implemented it. And you don't see any other major game use it because they don't have a problem with botting, this is a simple solution to prevent botting. Other games don't have problems with bots because they don't create the environment for them to thrive in. Good job on pointless comparison.
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Browser based game where source file of captcha can be grabbed. Not only that but it relies on other people to enter the captcha's for you.
Are you saying that the captcha would be a bigger inconvenience for you as a player than it would be for cheaters, despite the fact that without it, the gold economy has been destroyed completely?
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Yep so do nothing and let bots destroy the game.
You guys clearly work for Blizzard with this kind of logic.
"OHH NO CAPTCHA WILL BE SO ANNOYING" said the fanbase that still has to take an average of 10 -15 seconds to create a new game, but its over if you add 5 more seconds to that time.
You also claim this will be "worse to players", what players? Bot and game design have squashed 10million accounts, and you think that having to type in a captcha once every game creation, which if you are playing the game as intended (building up 5 stacks of nv, farming, moving to next act, farming, ect, THEN NEW GAME) you wouldn't have to enter a new captcha for at least 30-45 minutes.
So in your minds, 5 second delay every 30-45 minutes would ruin the game, but having bots rape and pillage every feasible source of game progression for now over 1 year, that's "BETTER" than having to enter a captcha.
PLUS the mentioning of cracking software/paying people to crack captcha is the biggest LOL in this thread. Where are your references to captchas being "cracked for years"? Yes captchas are crackable, the same way your car is crackable and your house lock is crackable, yet you still lock them both everyday don't you? Is it a terrible inconvenience that you have to unlock those every time you use them? There has been so much research showing that EFFECTIVE captcha's, those that use rotation, different colors/backgrounds, blurs, and waves are nearly impossible for a software program to crack.
So point proven that no one here actually considers real life solutions to these blatantly obvious flaws in the game, like gold botting, how this is a problem in 2013 with a game that has had 11 years in development is mind boggling, and point proven again this this was presented as a "simple solution" not anything complex or in-depth, yet as a simple solution it could be implemented in a day, and stop 90% of automated botting. GG forum.
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LOL, Died.
But sersiously,
"We gamers understand the importance of profit, but feel that it should not be the main guiding principle in a gaming company."
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This is mind boggling. So you are saying they have the development and design experienced needed to implement this into the game, because they have already done it, but its just "too hard".
Or are you saying that adding this will make it more like the other game?
Well then why did they include yellow quest markers, male and female classes, achievements, damage numbers, hp bars, ect. ect.
Because these aren't WoW features just because they are in WoW, they are just features. Saying, "NO DON'T MAKE IT LIKE WOW" is foolish since WoW took many of its features from Diablo 2.
People want to see features from other games because, gosh, they are fun... But hey, I'm just a troll so discount my opinion and points.
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Your joke would be funny, if it made sense.
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Find Legendary skin image file -> Open Photoshop -> Add "Hue & Saturation" effect -> Adjust for desired color -> Save for Web.
Does that take 5+ months?
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So, Blizz has been appeasing players by doing ban waves.
But this type of action is called re-active, and it does not help the player at all. Some players promote the conspiracy theory that Blizz focuses on this re-active approach because botters generate lots of money for them, through License sales and AH transaction fees, personally, I find this theory interesting but cannot believe it without evidence.
But, it makes me think twice about this theory, because there is an incredibly simple solution to botters. Perhaps it is a bit crude, but it is a solution nonetheless.
Captcha for game creation. Plain and simple.
They could use Re-captcha, not only would this limit bot users to having to enter captcha's everytime they want to create a game (discouraging the botters from using their programs, instead of the player from playing the game) but it would also benefit the world at large (look up re-captcha if you are confused how).
So, why has Blizzard not implemented this if they are indeed interested in removing bots from the game?
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One thing missing from "Requirements" that should make it obvious why every patch takes months to develop and has game breaking bugs.
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Didn't intend to make you sick.
I don't think it's accurate to say that 25% of the stocks purchased in 1990 would represent the stocks being traded in recent years. If it was accurate that would mean blizzard had over 6million stock shares in 1990.
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Sorry I was posting on a web forum just to see what other gamers thought, perhaps I should have gone to the UN? Plus in my OP it's clearly just a factual statement followed by me saying "this is the kind of person" I never said it was good or bad, all inferred opinions were formulated in the minds of the reader. I guess some people take their forum moderation jobs very seriously.