Revenge is all but worthless in Inferno. That 5% heal doesn't do anything unless there are 20 mobs around you. You HAVE to take provocation if you expect the skill to be worthwhile (^chance to proc) so no you won't have the 8% heal.
I definitely think that they need to rework the skill based on damage or some other factor and not on number of mobs hit. Barbarian is supposed to be an "in your face" character that can get into melee range and actually put up a good fight. Not so when I have to run around in circles like a little girl kiting in Inferno. My only saving grace in Inferno so far has been that I have a DH friend to play with that is able to kill the stuff when I have to run away.
Skill needs to be changed or life leech needs to be more useful for melee classes imo. I'm not really TOO concerned yet though, since I'm only a few days into inferno and I'm still excited to see how it pans out.
I agree there, you GOT to have the provocation rune if its to be worthwile, but I find it extremly usefull seeing as with as little as 4 mobs arround you, you heal 20% of your maximum life.
Currently trying to stack life leech aswell, stuck on 9,2% tho (with the 3% passive) not enough to survive aswell as I would like, but it helps abit.
I don't find it all that useful anymore when a normal mob can take 20% health with one swing
4 of them around me at a time means near death or I'm popping ignore pain.
I've found Seismic Slam to be VERY helpful in splitting up packs and picking apart one mob at a time w/o the need of revenge. Elite and champion packs... they're a different story all together...
Hate splitting things up in smaller packs, im more for the proper battlelust barbarian jumping into the fray and causing mayhem !
And the more mobs arround, the more hp I get from leeching with WW !
So far its worked great, but as you say, elite packs is another story all together.
Revenge is all but worthless in Inferno. That 5% heal doesn't do anything unless there are 20 mobs around you. You HAVE to take provocation if you expect the skill to be worthwhile (^chance to proc) so no you won't have the 8% heal.
I definitely think that they need to rework the skill based on damage or some other factor and not on number of mobs hit. Barbarian is supposed to be an "in your face" character that can get into melee range and actually put up a good fight. Not so when I have to run around in circles like a little girl kiting in Inferno. My only saving grace in Inferno so far has been that I have a DH friend to play with that is able to kill the stuff when I have to run away.
Skill needs to be changed or life leech needs to be more useful for melee classes imo. I'm not really TOO concerned yet though, since I'm only a few days into inferno and I'm still excited to see how it pans out.
I agree there, you GOT to have the provocation rune if its to be worthwile, but I find it extremly usefull seeing as with as little as 4 mobs arround you, you heal 20% of your maximum life.
Currently trying to stack life leech aswell, stuck on 9,2% tho (with the 3% passive) not enough to survive aswell as I would like, but it helps abit.
well seeing as the bosses is the easiest part of diablo and revenge heals a 5% per mob hit and butcher is a solo mob I would say its useless agianst him.
But do you run entire act 1 w/o revenge? if so can you give me a link to your build?
revenge is pretty much useless vs elites in inferno imo, solid for big groups and bad for any boss except belial due to adds
yep, thats the way I see it aswell, but without it big groups get extremly tricky love pulling huge groups of non-elites and just WW/revenge em all down
Why would they nerf revenge? It doesn't even heal that much.
What are you talking about?
you think its fair cleric main healing spell only heals 7k? And you're revenge skill scales with you're hp and giving 8% for every mob hit. wtf? if this aint op I dont know what is. If revenge doesn't deserve nerf. Clerics healing needs to scale aswell.
First of all what´s a cleric? and FYI for it to heal 8% you gotta rune it, and it only has a 15% chance to proc everytime you are hit. (unless you use the "provocation" rune witch gives it 5% healing but 30% chance to proc on getting hit) Yeah that reaaaally sounds like it needs nerfing dude
'Looking at' doesn't automatically mean nerf. Think of it from their perspective: if every Barbarian feels that Revenge is required, then that isn't fun gameplay, is it? So they need to look at it closely, to decide what is the best option.
They will either nerf Revenge if they feel it is too necessary and the Barbarian will survive fine without it, or
They will buff other abilities to match Revenge, if Revenge truly is necessary and without it the Barb would be broken.
Trust Blizzard. They aren't looking to break your favourite class, nor render you useless. They want you to be having fun. Feeling forced to take one ability isn't fun. Ultimately, this is the best thing for you, though it may not seem like it.
aye thats what Im hoping aswell, I do trust blizzard to do the right thing, its a reason this post is written without the normal "flaming/everythingiswrongcousisayso" that the more mental disturbed part of the forumposters use.
Anyhow thanks for a decent responce, lets hope they go with the "They will buff other abilities to match Revenge, if Revenge truly is necessary and without it the Barb would be broken." version, instead of the other way arround
Dno why they would, thats why I posted it in the first place !
@advanced yeah but the joke aint the We are actually looking at Revenge, but I was ... attempting to be funny part its this line Barbarians, please direct feedback to MetaGensis. so what hes saying is that they are actually looking at revenge..... Hopefully buffing it (not that its needed) or letting it stay the way it is seeing as there is absolutly no way of surviving hell/inferno without revenge w/provocation rune. (IMO) <-------------------
Okey, I read this blue post earlier and was woundering if the case is that they are thinking about nerfing revenge?!
If someone knows anything id be glad to know it !
Nerfing revenge = byebye barb ! only thing that makes the class have even a shred of chance fighting harder mobs.
"Barbarians and Game Balancing Thanks for the heads up, looking at Revenge. Barbarians, please direct feedback to MetaGensis.
Too arrogant to see flaws in your game. So sad. We are actually looking at Revenge, but I was ... attempting to be funny. I apologize. I realize it's serious business, but I'm trying not to allow my soul to be crushed by exclamations that Legendary items and class balance are the end of the world and will never be fixed and the game is simply the worst thing ever excreted by humans. I humbly recommend a healthy dose of chillaxification, but I understand some people take that as an act of dismissal."
Waiting what seems like forever, got a question tho, can you install the game before 00.01 tomorrow? I.E install it tomorrow at 19.00(?) and then just wait till you can log on?
Cheers my fellow Diablo fans, tomorrow night we will all be joined in the fight agianst hell, and ultimately, sleep !
This is not a specc I intend to try and use in Hell/inferno as it is severely lacking defensive attributes I was thinking more for between 20-35, with a 2h axe/mace to up the critchance for HOTA.
Main idea is getting down groups fast, might not be the best bosskiller but I see it working well in large groups of mobs.
[Cleave w/ Rupture], nice aoe gainer, the explode adds nicely to that.
[Hammer of the ancients w/ Rolling thunder], good dmg spender, the added shockwave equals larger AOE.
[Leap w/ Iron Impact] for for more survivability when jumping into large groups, gives you a couple of nuking secs.
[Revenge w/ Vengance is mine] a nice situasional ability, fury free and works nice as a uncontrollable spike heal, with "vengance is mine" you also gain fury aswell as more life. Might aswell have it, as beeing hit is kinda the barbarian way !
[Earthquake w/giants stride] Selfexplanatory. It rocks.
[Battle rage w/ maurader´s rage] very very nice dmg buff.
Passives : [Ruthless] (crit and crit dmg ) [Weapons master] (even more crit from mace/axe) and [Bloodthirst] (stacks neatly with aoe attacks like cleave)
Mainly focusing for solo atleast in the start, if I group up tho I could switch [Battle Rage] with [War Cry w/ Hardened Wrath]
Well I did some math on Frenzy+Maniac Vs Bash+Onslaught.
Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.
Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.
This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.
_____________________________________________________
Calculations using a hypothetical attack speed of 1 attack per second.
FRENZY + MANIAC
1 sec - 110%
.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)
.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)
.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)
.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)
Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%
Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%
_______________________________________________
Total Damage in 4 seconds = 776%
Total Damage in 8 seconds = 1552% (damage simply doubled, no modifiers applicable)
_______________________________________________
What this basically means, is that unless an enemy is destroyed by Bash+Onslaught in 3 strikes or less, Frenzy+Maniac does more damage.
Not to rude, but your math is wrong, that is not how you calculate attack speed. here is a handy formula for attack speed
Attack_speed = current attack speed / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )
Remember there is a difference in increasing attack speed, not decreasing the amount of time between attacks. So you have to have a 100% increase in attack speed to be hitting ever 0.5 seconds given your example. I could show you what the correct answer, but as a math teacher, I feel like you should work it out youself as to help remember it in the future :Thumbs Up:
Wow guys how do you come up with this, im so lost lol
Alright, first of all, I have not had the pleasure of trying out the beta, where I guess most of my questions would be answered, hence this post:
1. When you die, do you drop all your gold like in D2?
2. Will the maps be random and explored areas deleted like in D2?
3. They say the game is focused around Co-op, but is it still possible to solo the entire thing?
4. The rune/skill system is supposed to be changeable, can you change skills between packs/how does it work?
5. is the server system going to be separated into realms like in WoW, SWTOR or do they have the same awesome system as in D2?
If you think any of the questions above are stupid/retarded etc.. please make a new topic flaming this one, instead of filling this topic with your unwanted garbage.
Cheers !
1 - No, all gold is kept separate and not dropped on death. You do incur a 10% gear durability loss though that will cost to fix.
2 - Maps will be random, but the outline of some outdoor areas will be fixed with the internal areas randomised. They will be deleted and recreated as new random areas when a new game is created, like D2.
3 - It was recently confirmed that even the hardest part, Inferno, should be soloable. They are just encouraging and mainly aiming towards co-op play.
4 - You can change skills whenever you want, with a short (5 or 6, can't remember) cooldown on normal difficulty with a 15 sec cooldown for later difficulties. The nephalem valour buff you can get at max level will stack to increase magic find, but will be removed if you switch skills (but this buff is removed between games too, it's just there to stop you skill switching beteen every pack of monsters or before each boss fight). They want you to customise your character a lot, but also work on figuring out a strong all-round build.
5 - D2 style server system based on region, not different realms per region like WoW.
Alright, first of all, I have not had the pleasure of trying out the beta, where I guess most of my questions would be answered, hence this post:
1. When you die, do you drop all your gold like in D2?
2. Will the maps be random and explored areas deleted like in D2?
3. They say the game is focused around Co-op, but is it still possible to solo the entire thing?
4. The rune/skill system is supposed to be changeable, can you change skills between packs/how does it work?
5. is the server system going to be separated into realms like in WoW, SWTOR or do they have the same awesome system as in D2?
If you think any of the questions above are stupid/retarded etc.. please make a new topic flaming this one, instead of filling this topic with your unwanted garbage.
Cheers !
1. Nope.
2. It's just like D2 in that regard save for you cannot toggle the overlaying map.
3. It is confirmed that you can solo the entire game, although it may be more efficient to do it with other players.
4. You can switch your skills after killing a pack of creatures, but it typically takes about 10-12 seconds before the new skills are ready to be used.
5. There will be no realms save for the general United States, Asia, and EU servers.
Thanks mate, really helpfull
5. So you can create your own servers like in D2?
Alright, first of all, I have not had the pleasure of trying out the beta, where I guess most of my questions would be answered, hence this post:
1. When you die, do you drop all your gold like in D2?
2. Will the maps be random and explored areas deleted like in D2?
3. They say the game is focused around Co-op, but is it still possible to solo the entire thing?
4. The rune/skill system is supposed to be changeable, can you change skills between packs/how does it work?
5. is the server system going to be separated into realms like in WoW, SWTOR or do they have the same awesome system as in D2?
If you think any of the questions above are stupid/retarded etc.. please make a new topic flaming this one, instead of filling this topic with your unwanted garbage.
The idea is basically to be able to spam Energy Twister (with gale force for max damage output) by using critical mass (passive) to its full potential.
Diamond skin (prism) aswell as providing some much needed survivability it also gives cheaper Energy twisters = more energy twisters = win
.
Storm armor (power of the storm) nice spikedmg and even cheaper energy twisters !
Slow Time (Time warp) My idea by using slow time instead of frost nova, is to get some protection from ranged attacks aswell as keeping the melee off me, also by using time warp it could be a great way to kite mobs while increasing my nuke.
Archon, simply because I think it looks awesome
Other passives is Astral Presence for higher burst and regen aswell as Evocation for reducing CDs even further.
This spec is probably low on survivability for inferno, atleast if you plan to solo it, but might be awesome in a party of 4 ?
Any suggestions to what I can improve? Will it fail? Will it work?
0
Hate splitting things up in smaller packs, im more for the proper battlelust barbarian jumping into the fray and causing mayhem !
And the more mobs arround, the more hp I get from leeching with WW !
So far its worked great, but as you say, elite packs is another story all together.
0
I agree there, you GOT to have the provocation rune if its to be worthwile, but I find it extremly usefull seeing as with as little as 4 mobs arround you, you heal 20% of your maximum life.
Currently trying to stack life leech aswell, stuck on 9,2% tho (with the 3% passive) not enough to survive aswell as I would like, but it helps abit.
0
well seeing as the bosses is the easiest part of diablo and revenge heals a 5% per mob hit and butcher is a solo mob I would say its useless agianst him.
But do you run entire act 1 w/o revenge? if so can you give me a link to your build?
0
yep, thats the way I see it aswell, but without it big groups get extremly tricky
0
First of all what´s a cleric? and FYI for it to heal 8% you gotta rune it, and it only has a 15% chance to proc everytime you are hit. (unless you use the "provocation" rune witch gives it 5% healing but 30% chance to proc on getting hit) Yeah that reaaaally sounds like it needs nerfing dude
0
aye thats what Im hoping aswell, I do trust blizzard to do the right thing, its a reason this post is written without the normal "flaming/everythingiswrongcousisayso" that the more mental disturbed part of the forumposters use.
Anyhow thanks for a decent responce, lets hope they go with the "They will buff other abilities to match Revenge, if Revenge truly is necessary and without it the Barb would be broken." version, instead of the other way arround
0
@advanced yeah but the joke aint the We are actually looking at Revenge, but I was ... attempting to be funny part its this line Barbarians, please direct feedback to MetaGensis. so what hes saying is that they are actually looking at revenge..... Hopefully buffing it (not that its needed) or letting it stay the way it is seeing as there is absolutly no way of surviving hell/inferno without revenge w/provocation rune. (IMO) <-------------------
0
If someone knows anything id be glad to know it !
Nerfing revenge = byebye barb ! only thing that makes the class have even a shred of chance fighting harder mobs.
"Barbarians and Game Balancing
Thanks for the heads up, looking at Revenge.
Barbarians, please direct feedback to MetaGensis.
Too arrogant to see flaws in your game.
So sad.
We are actually looking at Revenge, but I was ... attempting to be funny. I apologize. I realize it's serious business, but I'm trying not to allow my soul to be crushed by exclamations that Legendary items and class balance are the end of the world and will never be fixed and the game is simply the worst thing ever excreted by humans. I humbly recommend a healthy dose of chillaxification, but I understand some people take that as an act of dismissal."
0
Cheers my fellow Diablo fans, tomorrow night we will all be joined in the fight agianst hell, and ultimately, sleep !
0
This is not a specc I intend to try and use in Hell/inferno as it is severely lacking defensive attributes I was thinking more for between 20-35, with a 2h axe/mace to up the critchance for HOTA.
Main idea is getting down groups fast, might not be the best bosskiller but I see it working well in large groups of mobs.
[Cleave w/ Rupture], nice aoe gainer, the explode adds nicely to that.
[Hammer of the ancients w/ Rolling thunder], good dmg spender, the added shockwave equals larger AOE.
[Leap w/ Iron Impact] for for more survivability when jumping into large groups, gives you a couple of nuking secs.
[Revenge w/ Vengance is mine] a nice situasional ability, fury free and works nice as a uncontrollable spike heal, with "vengance is mine" you also gain fury aswell as more life. Might aswell have it, as beeing hit is kinda the barbarian way !
[Earthquake w/giants stride] Selfexplanatory. It rocks.
[Battle rage w/ maurader´s rage] very very nice dmg buff.
Passives : [Ruthless] (crit and crit dmg ) [Weapons master] (even more crit from mace/axe) and [Bloodthirst] (stacks neatly with aoe attacks like cleave)
Mainly focusing for solo atleast in the start, if I group up tho I could switch [Battle Rage] with [War Cry w/ Hardened Wrath]
So what´s the verdict? Float or sink?
0
Agreed !
0
Wicked, cheers mate ! Solid post
0
Thanks mate, really helpfull
5. So you can create your own servers like in D2?
0
1. When you die, do you drop all your gold like in D2?
2. Will the maps be random and explored areas deleted like in D2?
3. They say the game is focused around Co-op, but is it still possible to solo the entire thing?
4. The rune/skill system is supposed to be changeable, can you change skills between packs/how does it work?
5. is the server system going to be separated into realms like in WoW, SWTOR or do they have the same awesome system as in D2?
If you think any of the questions above are stupid/retarded etc.. please make a new topic flaming this one, instead of filling this topic with your unwanted garbage.
Cheers !
0
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#UVXgTm!gXb!aZZZZc
The idea is basically to be able to spam Energy Twister (with gale force for max damage output) by using critical mass (passive) to its full potential.
Electrocute (chain lightning) = 6 targets hit, higher possibility for crits.
Diamond skin (prism) aswell as providing some much needed survivability it also gives cheaper Energy twisters = more energy twisters = win
.
Storm armor (power of the storm) nice spikedmg and even cheaper energy twisters !
Slow Time (Time warp) My idea by using slow time instead of frost nova, is to get some protection from ranged attacks aswell as keeping the melee off me, also by using time warp it could be a great way to kite mobs while increasing my nuke.
Archon, simply because I think it looks awesome
Other passives is Astral Presence for higher burst and regen aswell as Evocation for reducing CDs even further.
This spec is probably low on survivability for inferno, atleast if you plan to solo it, but might be awesome in a party of 4 ?
Any suggestions to what I can improve? Will it fail? Will it work?