ah, apparently they did it with the monster damage hotfix today. . . the illusionist one pretty much all they needed to do but all the changes below together yeah, just another patsy now:
General
The scaling bonus to monster damage in Inferno difficulty has been reduced by approximately 25% for all Monster Power levels
The following changes have been made to Xah'rith the Keywarden:
He can no longer spawn with the Illusionist or Fast affix
The damage dealt by a number of his abilities has been reduced
The movement speed reduction applied by his Cold attacks has been reduced
The issue was his illusions would cast the same skills so five of him dropping ice and bodies. Basically I had to AoE down the illusions as soon as they popped or it was trouble. If you left any up, it was definitely challenging chain-casting of bodies and snare. I haven't been on today so it would be interesting if they caved and nerfed him.
1500+ LoH, Acid Rain and Rain of Toads build -- reflect damage doesn't phase me that much. I'm pretty sure I have some footage of reflects damage packs (as well as other types) in my infernal machine key farm videos -- see signature.
EDIT: Actually, here's an example of reflects from first vid (linked direct to time stamp of pack):
Not realy. Did them on mp 5 without any LL or LoH.
My way is definitely not the only way and I'm sure a bears build can and will work. That said doing these fights with absolutely zero LL or LoH . . . that I'd like to see footage of. Sure Diablo fight or something you can completely avoid damage -- but on these uber fights, I'm not seeing a way to avoid all incoming and there definitely aren't enough globes to keep you full. I'm not going to say it's impossible to do without LoH/LL -- but I'd say it's very much encouraged to have Life return of some sort . . . and again, I'd love to see footage of a WD doing MP5 of these fights without a stitch of Life Leech or Life on Hit.
Naively thinking that any rune for Acid Cloud would have the same coefficient, I picked Slow Burn thinking that longer duration would equal more ticks and thus more healing.
Yeah, this is true, I tried to sub in Lob Blob for uber fights, because it would be better from a damage standpoint but it clearly does not retain the same coefficient. I would've thought it would keep the same from the parent spell but the rune does change it up.
Are you sure rain of toads is the best ability? I dont like that it aint AOE, but it might be the best due to life on hit proc?
RoT actually does AoE -- it's not like Acid Rain 24 yd AoE but it does about 8 yds or so. One of the big reasons I use it is definitely for the coefficient. If you were going for pure damage, Firebomb Ghost Bomb or Flash Fire would be better but RoT is better over all utility and not that big a drop in damage output especially in a summon build where packs tend to tight cluster around your pets.
I'll be posting an Act III key farm a little bit later this AM where you can see it working very effectively in a high damage, fast-speed farm run as well.
My question is also: do the über fights really just boild down to self heal?
Well, there's a good bit of damage going out that is just unavoidable in these fights -- it's coming from too many directions and even a 3 dog / garg build doesn't keep that off of you. Also, globes don't spawn with any great frequency in these fights. So with those two factors, only way I saw around it was to get high life return and my tests on PTR were showing LoH + RoT/Acid Rain were working the best for that purpose. All of that said, it's not impossible someone will come up with a better solo strategy. I have searched youtube for WD solos on these fights and there's really nothing to find at the moment -- but I'm sure we'll see some variants as time goes by.
Posting a series of vids on my WD solo strategy for Infernal Machine encounters and key farming. First vid is Realm of Chaos - Ghom/Rakanoth at MP6. Currently editing/rendering vids for Siege/Kulle and SK/Maghda as well as efficient key farming routes. I'll update this post with them as I go.
Of course they will drop that much eventually -- however 6.0% crit rings with impeccable stats aren't just going to appear in mass quantity day 1. You look today at a mature market for 4.5 versus 3.0 crit rings -- there's alot of 4.5 to choose from. I just think it will take awhile for there to be enough supply of well-rolled 6.0% rings to push the current well-rolled 4.5% rings down 50%. Maybe not -- maybe people sit on the sidelines waiting for good 6% to appear and sellers start dropping prices just to sell.
I don't think we disagree they will drop 50% -- I guess we just disagree on how quickly the supply of 6.0% will cause them to drop -- I see it taking awhile longer than you do. Either way, my behavior is to sit and wait for a bit -- I'll likely fill my second ring with Hellfire and then wait and see how much a crit rolled Zuni comes down.
I'm not saying I'd buy any jewelry today and it likely makes sense to wait until 1.0.5. That said, expecting a 50%+ drop in prices just because the patch hit is unreasonable. It will take awhile for new max rolls to put downward pressure on the old max rolls -- and the old max rolls will still be quite good. Yes, prices will come down, no it won't be overnight.
Perhaps a lesson in statistics is necessary for those of you that don't think prices will drop drastically?
Before you give a lesson in statistics, check your understanding of the numbers. The details aren't in the patch notes for 100% verification but I'm pretty sure from all the reading I've done that rings will go from current 4.5 max to 6.0 max crit. It's amulets that are going from 8.5 to 10 crit. It's not as big a jump as you are stating and thus not as big a decrease in price either.
I played with an INT/VIT Skorn and about 200 all resist for a good bit of 1.0.4. Damage reflect was the one thing that caused me issues in that setup but even without any LoH/Leech, they were workable with some pauses to wait for Spirit Walk or a health globe pickup. The main times they'd get me is when I was zooming through, just come out of a Jaunt, see a pack and before I got a read of affixes, Soul Harvest Vengeful Spirit and Acid Rain on their head -- omg I'm dying, no I'm dead
That said, let me give you my experience and why I'm saying, for an Acid Rain build, I like LoH better:
The main reason I upgraded to a Life Steal / Life Leech Skorn was for Infernal Bosses and 1.0.5. I started out with a 6.0% Life Leech as that seemed to be the forum consensus if you could output high damage. My first test was to stand in a niche and eat Ghom clouds and damage while dpsing him down (basically to simulate some of the conditions of the Ghom/Rakk infernal fight). The Life Leech Skorn was not up to the task. I could not sustain in the cloud with just a straight weapon swap. Even when I added in higher resist gear/regen, a +546 LoH / 332 regen amulet, and swapped passives / skills about for better defense, it still couldn't sustain. I will say it was reasonably good in farm content and handled damage reflect packs so I could take them down without pause.
But as my primary reason was for infernal fights and it didn't do the job, I went out and bought a Rare 2h with 1550 LoH for 2 mill to test (I basically wanted to see if LoH would work before investing in a much higher priced Skorn). I took the Rare out - only swapped in the amulet from above and left all other gear/skills/passives the same - and sat in Ghom clouds dropping Acid Rain and RoT. I could sustain in the cloud at full health interminably. So I sold the rare back for 200k profit, sold the Leech Skorn back for 5 mill loss (sold for more than I bought but 15% AH cut whacked me). I didn't feel too bad though as I bought a 1567 LoH Skorn for 20 mill less than the original Leech Skorn so all-in-all I saved some budget.
As the Ghom test proved with the Rare, the 1567 LoH Skorn + the 546 LoH ammy sustains easily there. For standard farm content, I keep my current critical hit amulet and gear as you see in my profile. Even with only a small amount of regen on gear and no other LoH resources, I can go all out DPS on any damage reflect pack without any concern. Acid Rain drop on a pack heals me for a ton.
That's about as clear as I can make it -- but I will say again, the LoH Skorn works better for me specifically because of the high coefficients on Acid Rain and RoT. If you were to play with a different skill setup and used primary/spender with lower coefficients, it's very possible Life Leech Skorn is better. If you know you are going to stick with Acid Rain (currently using in your profile), want more life return, and a smaller investment, LoH Skorn with 1500+ LoH is the better choice. If you think you may switch to Bears or another skill setup, maybe Leech will be preferable but I won't speak to that as authoritatively as I haven't done the work to evaluate both weaps in that scenario.
Oh, and LoH over life steal? even if im unbuffed 124k dps?
In a Acid Rain / Rain of Toads build, yes. I tested both a 6.0% Life Steal Skorn and my current 1500+ LoH Skorn and it's no contest. I'm always solo and char sheet dps is usually in the 150-190k range with Soul Harvest and Gruesome Feast buffs going. At those levels, the LoH Skorn crushed the Life Steal Skorn which I sold back. That said, Acid Cloud and RoT both have very strong coefficients. Your mileage may vary if you used Bears or the like.
In terms of mana, 4 pc Zuni does wonders for your regen -- between the set bonus, a slow 2 hander, Gruesome Feast and Grave Injustice Passives, it gets pretty hard to oom even with using Pierce the Veil 30% extra mana costs.
You can get pickup radius from other 7 other armor slots (anywhere from 5 to 49 yds depending on number of slots and pickup radius value on each piece) without even touching Thing of the Deep. 2h Skorn on Acid Rain is just way more efficient for both speed of kill and mana.
Whatever the effect, it needs to be very visual -- similar to the near-death red or attaining a paragon level or somesuch. On any given night, music blaring, at who know what level of sobriety, that legendary has a high chance of being missed unless the alert is completely in my face - especially if it drops from trash -- which have been a surprising source of many of my legendary drops.
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General
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EDIT: Actually, here's an example of reflects from first vid (linked direct to time stamp of pack):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=imIfRpc53k8#t=377s
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My way is definitely not the only way and I'm sure a bears build can and will work. That said doing these fights with absolutely zero LL or LoH . . . that I'd like to see footage of. Sure Diablo fight or something you can completely avoid damage -- but on these uber fights, I'm not seeing a way to avoid all incoming and there definitely aren't enough globes to keep you full. I'm not going to say it's impossible to do without LoH/LL -- but I'd say it's very much encouraged to have Life return of some sort . . . and again, I'd love to see footage of a WD doing MP5 of these fights without a stitch of Life Leech or Life on Hit.
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Yeah, this is true, I tried to sub in Lob Blob for uber fights, because it would be better from a damage standpoint but it clearly does not retain the same coefficient. I would've thought it would keep the same from the parent spell but the rune does change it up.
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RoT actually does AoE -- it's not like Acid Rain 24 yd AoE but it does about 8 yds or so. One of the big reasons I use it is definitely for the coefficient. If you were going for pure damage, Firebomb Ghost Bomb or Flash Fire would be better but RoT is better over all utility and not that big a drop in damage output especially in a summon build where packs tend to tight cluster around your pets.
I'll be posting an Act III key farm a little bit later this AM where you can see it working very effectively in a high damage, fast-speed farm run as well.
Well, there's a good bit of damage going out that is just unavoidable in these fights -- it's coming from too many directions and even a 3 dog / garg build doesn't keep that off of you. Also, globes don't spawn with any great frequency in these fights. So with those two factors, only way I saw around it was to get high life return and my tests on PTR were showing LoH + RoT/Acid Rain were working the best for that purpose. All of that said, it's not impossible someone will come up with a better solo strategy. I have searched youtube for WD solos on these fights and there's really nothing to find at the moment -- but I'm sure we'll see some variants as time goes by.
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Realm of Chaos - Ghom / Rakanoth - MP6
Realm of Turmoil - Seigebreaker / Kulle - MP6
Realm of Discord - Skeleton King / Maghda - MP6
Act III Keywarden Farming
Act II Keywarden Farming
Act I Keywarden Farming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIfRpc53k8
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I don't think we disagree they will drop 50% -- I guess we just disagree on how quickly the supply of 6.0% will cause them to drop -- I see it taking awhile longer than you do. Either way, my behavior is to sit and wait for a bit -- I'll likely fill my second ring with Hellfire and then wait and see how much a crit rolled Zuni comes down.
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Before you give a lesson in statistics, check your understanding of the numbers. The details aren't in the patch notes for 100% verification but I'm pretty sure from all the reading I've done that rings will go from current 4.5 max to 6.0 max crit. It's amulets that are going from 8.5 to 10 crit. It's not as big a jump as you are stating and thus not as big a decrease in price either.
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That said, let me give you my experience and why I'm saying, for an Acid Rain build, I like LoH better:
The main reason I upgraded to a Life Steal / Life Leech Skorn was for Infernal Bosses and 1.0.5. I started out with a 6.0% Life Leech as that seemed to be the forum consensus if you could output high damage. My first test was to stand in a niche and eat Ghom clouds and damage while dpsing him down (basically to simulate some of the conditions of the Ghom/Rakk infernal fight). The Life Leech Skorn was not up to the task. I could not sustain in the cloud with just a straight weapon swap. Even when I added in higher resist gear/regen, a +546 LoH / 332 regen amulet, and swapped passives / skills about for better defense, it still couldn't sustain. I will say it was reasonably good in farm content and handled damage reflect packs so I could take them down without pause.
But as my primary reason was for infernal fights and it didn't do the job, I went out and bought a Rare 2h with 1550 LoH for 2 mill to test (I basically wanted to see if LoH would work before investing in a much higher priced Skorn). I took the Rare out - only swapped in the amulet from above and left all other gear/skills/passives the same - and sat in Ghom clouds dropping Acid Rain and RoT. I could sustain in the cloud at full health interminably. So I sold the rare back for 200k profit, sold the Leech Skorn back for 5 mill loss (sold for more than I bought but 15% AH cut whacked me). I didn't feel too bad though as I bought a 1567 LoH Skorn for 20 mill less than the original Leech Skorn so all-in-all I saved some budget.
As the Ghom test proved with the Rare, the 1567 LoH Skorn + the 546 LoH ammy sustains easily there. For standard farm content, I keep my current critical hit amulet and gear as you see in my profile. Even with only a small amount of regen on gear and no other LoH resources, I can go all out DPS on any damage reflect pack without any concern. Acid Rain drop on a pack heals me for a ton.
That's about as clear as I can make it -- but I will say again, the LoH Skorn works better for me specifically because of the high coefficients on Acid Rain and RoT. If you were to play with a different skill setup and used primary/spender with lower coefficients, it's very possible Life Leech Skorn is better. If you know you are going to stick with Acid Rain (currently using in your profile), want more life return, and a smaller investment, LoH Skorn with 1500+ LoH is the better choice. If you think you may switch to Bears or another skill setup, maybe Leech will be preferable but I won't speak to that as authoritatively as I haven't done the work to evaluate both weaps in that scenario.
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In a Acid Rain / Rain of Toads build, yes. I tested both a 6.0% Life Steal Skorn and my current 1500+ LoH Skorn and it's no contest. I'm always solo and char sheet dps is usually in the 150-190k range with Soul Harvest and Gruesome Feast buffs going. At those levels, the LoH Skorn crushed the Life Steal Skorn which I sold back. That said, Acid Cloud and RoT both have very strong coefficients. Your mileage may vary if you used Bears or the like.
In terms of mana, 4 pc Zuni does wonders for your regen -- between the set bonus, a slow 2 hander, Gruesome Feast and Grave Injustice Passives, it gets pretty hard to oom even with using Pierce the Veil 30% extra mana costs.
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