Bagstone, this is sad very sad for me. I am 52 years old and have loved these types of games where its a loot find. When Diablo 3 came out I was excited and happy to again play a fantastic loot find game.
I stopped playing because of the AH and how loot drops were tweeked to support the AH. I was happy to see it go and happy to try it again.
Now, this season is just dumb, it is not a loot game anymore, I realized this weekend when I took the fun out of finding gear and simply handed gear to my WD. In less then 4 hours my WD went from level Zero to 70 and geared, for me it has been and still should be about the loot. Glad to see I am not alone in how D# has put a dirty taste in my mouth.
OK, so I think I understand a bit better now thanks.
However, this leaves a dirty taste in my mouth. For me, Diablo has always been about the loot. Finding loot, improving your gear as well as killing monsters. It seems that I am old now and the nature and dynamics of Diablo has changed from a loot based game to "finding" perfect EXP to boost your paragon so you can push higher GRIFTS.
I see your point about gear, I was able to outfit a fresh WD with the revised WD set. The WD never had to rift or grift, I simply had my DH earn shards and let my WD spend them. In the end I had a fully loaded WD with little effort. After I did this I was like well, that was dumb and I realized it took all the fun out of finding and equipping the gear.
Its all about the loot for me, speed farming GRIFTS over and over makes my head hurt.
Gold is a completely abundant resource, so GF is useless. The MF buff is too small to make any difference. The XP buff only makes a difference in GRs, not in Torment rifts (it's 10% additively on top of a couple of thousands, so completely useless). The reason you run Torment rifts is not gold, not XP, and items are only secondary. The main reason is to get a GR key - as quick as possible. On open maps spreading out can speed up the rift significantly and net you those GR keys much faster, and you'll make more than up for the lost XP in the GR run that's to follow.
Thanks for clearing this up for me. So the XP buff is useless in Rifts? Seems odd that it shows the buff, it also seems odd that when the group stays together it appears that EXP is moving faster then when everyone is spread out.
I also guess that I am doing this wrong. I felt Rifts where for gear, some mats, as well as you get a GRift Key. Based on what you just told me RIFTS are useless outside of Key Farming. Yet, most of my gear has come from Rifts not GRIFTS, confused I am.
Question, I noticed when in groups we have a buff in the buff bar. This buff tells us how many people are contributing to the buff. My understanding is this buff increases MF, EXP, GF for each stack. Is my understanding correct?
If my understanding is correct then I have a follow up question. If you are in a group and run off by yourself leaving the rest of the pack to clean up after you, just what exactly are you gaining?
You have gimped your MF, EXP, GF as well as gimped the rest of the party.
As to the comment, about build diversity, Yes the cube did make for many more interesting builds outside the developer provided ones. However, in the end it is all about the item hunt. Make the hunt to easy and the game looses my attention
I do wish people would learn to read and not jump to conclusions. Not anywhere did I say I did not like the game, to be honest I love many of the changes that have been made.
Diablo has been in the past an item hunt game, yes I can not use the cube, yes I can not use Kalda. So is Diablo no longer a item hunt? If so, what exactly is the end game? Running Rifts over and over, but to run higher level rifts you need better gear. So telling me it is not an item hunt game is very misleading at best.
Yes, I have the option to not use the cube, to not use the gambler. However, that was not the point of my topic. What I was wanting to get from people is not grow up NUB Lrn2Play. I simply want to share my impression of what I see and get other peoples thoughts.
So let me be clear, the state of the game is fantastic now that drops are not centered around the AH, I love playing and for the past 2 months have been having a blast. However, I can see this getting very old and stale, for me finding the upgrades was the excitement and the game.
I have been playing Diablo 3 from the day it landed. I remember how little stuff ever dropped, legs were fantasy in many peoples minds because we simply never seen them or set items drop. When I realized that diablos drops were centered around the Auction House it was then I decided that I would no longer play the game.
About 2 months ago, after reading and hearing about all the changes I decided to comeback and try the game again. I created my first Sessions 3 Char at the very end of session 3.
Within a matter of a week, I had more legs and set items then I knew what to do with. However, due to past experience with the game I horded every single drop until I had no choice but turn them into dust because of storage space. To me it seemed they went to far in the other direction and had made it to easy to gear up, however I was happy with that, it allowed me to be casual yet still able to get decent gear.
Now, with latest patch, it seems things are even easier to get between Cube and Kalda. Could not get a Witching hour to drop, Cube please give me one, 4 belts later I have it. I need a Crashing Rain Belt, Kalda gives me a yellow, cube it, 7 attempts later Crashing Rain Belt.
Now, from a casual player this seemed fantastic, however I suspect that within about 1 month I will be tired of chains these .01% changes to gear and stop playing. I cant help but feel that Vanilla was bad and left a bad taste in your mouth, but this seems worse. It sucks the fun and excitement out of it.
In the past getting a good self found item was exciting and made you happy, now with Kalda and Cube its like give me more free stuff. Starting to wonder if Obama is in charge of the reward system.
Let me clarify, I do not hate group play, not sure why it seems I do. Early Diablo 3 was more Single Play with options to join friends. Lets be clear, one of the biggest factors for Blizzard to promote group play way above SOLO is the number of servers and resources it takes. Again, I simply see no reason not to allow and provide a place where SOLO players can play and compete with each other.
SOLO players are not asking for more EXP, not asking for better drops solo players simply want to play solo without being penalized for playing the way they want. After reading many threads here is the bottom line.
1. EXP gains between SP and MP need to be brought inline. MP get faster kills and faster clears thus more EXP so why do they need this crazy bonus handout?
2. Bounties, this one I have to agree with and it does impact my ability to play. Make Bounties easier for single players, single players can not game the system, even when it is clear blizzard does not want you gaming the system.
3. SOLO leader board with NO MP entries on the leader board. Keep your single player leader board for people who MP then jump to Single Player GRIFTS. I simply do not know how this impact you MP people and why it harms you in any way, let the SOLO players have the SOLO leaderboards.
Diablo 3 was always billed as a Single Player game with a multi-player aspect.
When was this the case? I seem to recall it being promoted as a multi-player game that could be played solo. The fact that it requires an internet connection kind of undermines the solo-first aspect that you are suggesting. While it is true that in early vanilla MP was garbage compared to SP, Blizzard immediately recognized that as a MASSIVE problem, because they wanted to promote MP over SP.
Regarding solo players not wanting to be forced into grouping, your solution would PREVENT them from grouping if they ever decide that they want to. To me, that is an unacceptable solution.
Early when Diablo 3 came out it was considered a Single Player game with Multi-Player aspects. Over time, it changed into what it is now.
As to your comment about not being able to go to multi-player. Are hard core players allowed to stop being hard core and switch to SC? No, they are not, as such I would not expect SOLO play to ever be allowed back to MP. If you want MP, roll a MP char.
I simply am amazed that many people do not want a leaderboard for SOLO players. To be honest, I am not sure why people feel its a bad idea. The SOLO players all seem to want to be able to compete and play their way. Not be forced into grouping or suffer being left behind.
For me, I don't care, I will not ever chase leader boards, to old for that stuff. However, I see the issue clearly and agree that there is an issue. Diablo 3 was always billed as a Single Player game with a multi-player aspect. I remember a time when the forums were filled with posts from people wanting MP to be better and less of a drag. Well, the pendulum has shifted, the once Single Player game with a multi-player component is now a Multi-player game with a single player component.
This issue is not going away and it needs to be addressed.
I do thank most of you for keeping this a conversation and not a SP VER MP bashing.
HarleyM, you know your reply is off mark and off base. IF you can not see that SOLO players do matter as well as Multi-Players then you are the one with blinders on. People who do not invest time should not ever worry about being on a leader board.
However, a SOLO player should be compensated for putting in the same amount of time with the same or close to same reward. Even with my old eyes and old mentality I can see this clearly, I ask why don't you?
Lets reverse it and ask why even have multi-player leader boards if the end game is single player leader boards? Then fine, lets just have 2 leader boards, Single Player GRIFTS and SOLO Player GRIFTS. Lets cut out all the multi-player bards seeing you feel they are pointless.
You claim SOLO player advantages, please list them as I am more then happy to list the advantages Multi-Player get, Even Blizzard is realizing things are not exactly fair in this department and are finally looking to address the issue. I also do not understand why people are so negative in providing a leader board just for SOLO players, why is that? What harm does it cause you big bad Multi-Players?
Why would anyone play in group if there weren't all those advantages? Why would i waste time playing with strangers that don't want to communicate in party chat, the insane lags, can't understand what the hell is the happening with all those spells spammed together, bad players that can't carry their weight... Would you prefer the game to be like it was on release where people just refused to play with their friends because it was a lost of time?
You just have to realise this is an online co-op game !! (coming from a solo player, played less than an hour in co op this season, i'm only a couple GR from being ranked, i'm not complaining about people playing only in group being so hard to beat because i know the rules of the game and i made my choice, no one will care or will see my name on the leaderboars but i know my achievement and that's what matters).
I am not suggesting that they make any changes to EXP, what I am suggesting is to level and balance the leaderboards and take into account SOLO (single) players. SOLO players should have the right to compete with themselves on the leaderboards. VioletSkye, had it correct and even defined the issue the best. I believe his solution to be the best at fixing this issue.
With the incentive to play in group (more xp, gold and magic find), play solo not worth atm... it's sad, cause like you, i like to play solo, or with my gf, but the xp bonus dont give that option to us, it's just like "play solo = low lvl forever"
Unless you are wanting to push leaderboards I see no reason to worry about the EXP differential. For me, this is the case, I know I will never be on the leaderboards and have no desire to attempt it. However, I do see how a solo player who does want to push the leaderboards would be unset that multi-players impact the single player leader boards.
The issues with that is the fact that the game is horrible designed when you don't want to play for leaderbords. You get a character t10 speed farm ready in about 20-30 hours (solo play, starting with no paragon). If you don't push for leaderbords then, you experienced everything the game got to give.
Bad itemization, skill balance and a horrible crafting / currency system make this possible.
I have no desire to push leaderboards, it is not for me. I am way to old to care about these types of things anymore. However, from reading threads it is clear that this does impact others that do care. For me, the game is a time killer, something for me to do when I don't have other things to do.
It is always the case, those who have lots of free time will excel in games like this, people like me, it is nothing more then entertainment. However, I do see and understand the point of SOLO (Single player) players and the complaints they have. To me the system does not seem fair or balanced.
I've got to be honest and call this out as one of the most ridiculous threads ever. If you're not interested in leaderboards and only wish to play alone don't even look at the leaderboards. Beating your personal best should be enough of a reward for you.
I think to segregate people who never play multiplayer and those who do is just silly. In regards to your statement about bounties and key farming, if you want to do them quicker join a party instead of playing solo just so you can control how you want to play. The public games have tags for exactly that reason, you go into a game called 'rifts' to compete in rifts...
Sorry you feel that it is. Regardless, it is a topic under conversation on Blizzard forums and I felt the need to examine this in better detail with people who would understand why I posted this. Clearly you are not the type of person who I was trying to reach, to have an adult conversation about this topic. I respect your right to feel it is dumb, however it is not a dumb conversation to me.
Yes, I do not care, however others do and as such I wish to discuss the issue. You see, in this day and age it is not just all about me.
I'm not seeing the issue here. The single player leaderboard is simply for showcasing how well a character goes at it alone (single character in the Grift.) If you play multiplayer to level/gear up and and then test yourself against a Grift all by your lonesome, I don't see any problems with that.
I think maybe some are confusing single player with solo player. I play multiplayer a vast majority of the time unless I'm specifically working on something that I'd rather just do alone (like recently I found the Gibbering Gemstone the first day of Season 4 during a bounty and the next day I found the Liquid Rainbow during a bounty so I decided to waste a little time and look for the rest of the pieces of my Staff of Herding.)
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but maybe Blizz could include a SOLO leaderboard and have it check for characters that have joined a multiplayer game and if so, that character would not show up on the SOLO leaderboard. You character file could have a simple data flag that when checked would designate whether a char has ever joined a multiplayer game.
Actually you do see the issue here. Call it bad terminology, call it oversight on blizzards part for not creating a SOLO leader board. I will agree with you that if you look at it from your definition you are correct, there is no problem. However, in a single player game with a multi player component there should be a way for people who play SOLO (single player) to compete with other like minded people. Your solution is not that different then mine, it in effect creates a leader board for SOLO (single players).
The bottom line for me is leader boards are stupid, in a game with so much RNG that much of your progress is dictated by luck or time. Good luck + ability too play massive number of hours is not competition IMHO.
0
Bagstone, this is sad very sad for me. I am 52 years old and have loved these types of games where its a loot find. When Diablo 3 came out I was excited and happy to again play a fantastic loot find game.
I stopped playing because of the AH and how loot drops were tweeked to support the AH. I was happy to see it go and happy to try it again.
Now, this season is just dumb, it is not a loot game anymore, I realized this weekend when I took the fun out of finding gear and simply handed gear to my WD. In less then 4 hours my WD went from level Zero to 70 and geared, for me it has been and still should be about the loot. Glad to see I am not alone in how D# has put a dirty taste in my mouth.
0
OK, so I think I understand a bit better now thanks.
However, this leaves a dirty taste in my mouth. For me, Diablo has always been about the loot. Finding loot, improving your gear as well as killing monsters. It seems that I am old now and the nature and dynamics of Diablo has changed from a loot based game to "finding" perfect EXP to boost your paragon so you can push higher GRIFTS.
I see your point about gear, I was able to outfit a fresh WD with the revised WD set. The WD never had to rift or grift, I simply had my DH earn shards and let my WD spend them. In the end I had a fully loaded WD with little effort. After I did this I was like well, that was dumb and I realized it took all the fun out of finding and equipping the gear.
Its all about the loot for me, speed farming GRIFTS over and over makes my head hurt.
0
I also guess that I am doing this wrong. I felt Rifts where for gear, some mats, as well as you get a GRift Key. Based on what you just told me RIFTS are useless outside of Key Farming. Yet, most of my gear has come from Rifts not GRIFTS, confused I am.
0
Question, I noticed when in groups we have a buff in the buff bar. This buff tells us how many people are contributing to the buff. My understanding is this buff increases MF, EXP, GF for each stack. Is my understanding correct?
If my understanding is correct then I have a follow up question. If you are in a group and run off by yourself leaving the rest of the pack to clean up after you, just what exactly are you gaining?
You have gimped your MF, EXP, GF as well as gimped the rest of the party.
0
As to the comment, about build diversity, Yes the cube did make for many more interesting builds outside the developer provided ones. However, in the end it is all about the item hunt. Make the hunt to easy and the game looses my attention
0
I do wish people would learn to read and not jump to conclusions. Not anywhere did I say I did not like the game, to be honest I love many of the changes that have been made.
Diablo has been in the past an item hunt game, yes I can not use the cube, yes I can not use Kalda. So is Diablo no longer a item hunt? If so, what exactly is the end game? Running Rifts over and over, but to run higher level rifts you need better gear. So telling me it is not an item hunt game is very misleading at best.
Yes, I have the option to not use the cube, to not use the gambler. However, that was not the point of my topic. What I was wanting to get from people is not grow up NUB Lrn2Play. I simply want to share my impression of what I see and get other peoples thoughts.
So let me be clear, the state of the game is fantastic now that drops are not centered around the AH, I love playing and for the past 2 months have been having a blast. However, I can see this getting very old and stale, for me finding the upgrades was the excitement and the game.
0
I have been playing Diablo 3 from the day it landed. I remember how little stuff ever dropped, legs were fantasy in many peoples minds because we simply never seen them or set items drop. When I realized that diablos drops were centered around the Auction House it was then I decided that I would no longer play the game.
About 2 months ago, after reading and hearing about all the changes I decided to comeback and try the game again. I created my first Sessions 3 Char at the very end of session 3.
Within a matter of a week, I had more legs and set items then I knew what to do with. However, due to past experience with the game I horded every single drop until I had no choice but turn them into dust because of storage space. To me it seemed they went to far in the other direction and had made it to easy to gear up, however I was happy with that, it allowed me to be casual yet still able to get decent gear.
Now, with latest patch, it seems things are even easier to get between Cube and Kalda. Could not get a Witching hour to drop, Cube please give me one, 4 belts later I have it. I need a Crashing Rain Belt, Kalda gives me a yellow, cube it, 7 attempts later Crashing Rain Belt.
Now, from a casual player this seemed fantastic, however I suspect that within about 1 month I will be tired of chains these .01% changes to gear and stop playing. I cant help but feel that Vanilla was bad and left a bad taste in your mouth, but this seems worse. It sucks the fun and excitement out of it.
In the past getting a good self found item was exciting and made you happy, now with Kalda and Cube its like give me more free stuff. Starting to wonder if Obama is in charge of the reward system.
0
Let me clarify, I do not hate group play, not sure why it seems I do. Early Diablo 3 was more Single Play with options to join friends. Lets be clear, one of the biggest factors for Blizzard to promote group play way above SOLO is the number of servers and resources it takes. Again, I simply see no reason not to allow and provide a place where SOLO players can play and compete with each other.
SOLO players are not asking for more EXP, not asking for better drops solo players simply want to play solo without being penalized for playing the way they want. After reading many threads here is the bottom line.
1. EXP gains between SP and MP need to be brought inline. MP get faster kills and faster clears thus more EXP so why do they need this crazy bonus handout?
2. Bounties, this one I have to agree with and it does impact my ability to play. Make Bounties easier for single players, single players can not game the system, even when it is clear blizzard does not want you gaming the system.
3. SOLO leader board with NO MP entries on the leader board. Keep your single player leader board for people who MP then jump to Single Player GRIFTS. I simply do not know how this impact you MP people and why it harms you in any way, let the SOLO players have the SOLO leaderboards.
0
Early when Diablo 3 came out it was considered a Single Player game with Multi-Player aspects. Over time, it changed into what it is now.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149146609
As to your comment about not being able to go to multi-player. Are hard core players allowed to stop being hard core and switch to SC? No, they are not, as such I would not expect SOLO play to ever be allowed back to MP. If you want MP, roll a MP char.
0
I simply am amazed that many people do not want a leaderboard for SOLO players. To be honest, I am not sure why people feel its a bad idea. The SOLO players all seem to want to be able to compete and play their way. Not be forced into grouping or suffer being left behind.
For me, I don't care, I will not ever chase leader boards, to old for that stuff. However, I see the issue clearly and agree that there is an issue. Diablo 3 was always billed as a Single Player game with a multi-player aspect. I remember a time when the forums were filled with posts from people wanting MP to be better and less of a drag. Well, the pendulum has shifted, the once Single Player game with a multi-player component is now a Multi-player game with a single player component.
This issue is not going away and it needs to be addressed.
I do thank most of you for keeping this a conversation and not a SP VER MP bashing.
0
HarleyM, you know your reply is off mark and off base. IF you can not see that SOLO players do matter as well as Multi-Players then you are the one with blinders on. People who do not invest time should not ever worry about being on a leader board.
However, a SOLO player should be compensated for putting in the same amount of time with the same or close to same reward. Even with my old eyes and old mentality I can see this clearly, I ask why don't you?
Lets reverse it and ask why even have multi-player leader boards if the end game is single player leader boards? Then fine, lets just have 2 leader boards, Single Player GRIFTS and SOLO Player GRIFTS. Lets cut out all the multi-player bards seeing you feel they are pointless.
You claim SOLO player advantages, please list them as I am more then happy to list the advantages Multi-Player get, Even Blizzard is realizing things are not exactly fair in this department and are finally looking to address the issue. I also do not understand why people are so negative in providing a leader board just for SOLO players, why is that? What harm does it cause you big bad Multi-Players?
0
0
It is always the case, those who have lots of free time will excel in games like this, people like me, it is nothing more then entertainment. However, I do see and understand the point of SOLO (Single player) players and the complaints they have. To me the system does not seem fair or balanced.
0
Sorry you feel that it is. Regardless, it is a topic under conversation on Blizzard forums and I felt the need to examine this in better detail with people who would understand why I posted this. Clearly you are not the type of person who I was trying to reach, to have an adult conversation about this topic. I respect your right to feel it is dumb, however it is not a dumb conversation to me.
Yes, I do not care, however others do and as such I wish to discuss the issue. You see, in this day and age it is not just all about me.
0
Actually you do see the issue here. Call it bad terminology, call it oversight on blizzards part for not creating a SOLO leader board. I will agree with you that if you look at it from your definition you are correct, there is no problem. However, in a single player game with a multi player component there should be a way for people who play SOLO (single player) to compete with other like minded people. Your solution is not that different then mine, it in effect creates a leader board for SOLO (single players).
The bottom line for me is leader boards are stupid, in a game with so much RNG that much of your progress is dictated by luck or time. Good luck + ability too play massive number of hours is not competition IMHO.