Quote from akainu
First I'd like to say ROFL D3 has MMO stats......
With the incredibly loose definitions as to what passes for MMOs these days, Diablo 3 is an MMO. Massively Online Playing Alone Together.
Quote from lorien1973
Torchlight 2 is vaporware. Or, they are reinventing the entire system to work with consoles (most likely).
I don't think Torchlight 2 is any more vaporware than Diablo 3 at this point.
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Apologies Frostbite, I enjoy long intelectual discussions. For the most part, we agree, and I can concede on the material gathering aspect of the system, but...
Actually the player is the mechanism by which the actual crafting is done. As I said in my original post, what Jay is referring to is not factual provided that the Artisan isn't the one clicking buttons (Obviously how could he?). To clear up a previous comment though, never did I intend to suggest a system wherein the player is sidelined to a total npc crafing system, and I agree that such a system would not be conducive to a fun experience. Once again, let me state that I like the Artisan system, and my dissension is not with the system itself, but rather how it is being portrayed.
Likewise, at the bottom of the Vendor window on the left side of the the screen there is a "Craft Item" button, that once pressed (obviously the player has to press it) will induce the crafting process. But now, I pose a question. If the Artisan were removed from this exact mechanic, what changes would occur? I would say very little if anything. Therefore, the player is the one that presses the Craft Item button to induce the crafting process. Now really, who is crafting here?
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I agree that there should be a desire to stay alive, but at the same time death penalties are somewhat annoying more than they serve to motivate to stay alive. Because, players will eventually die regardless of their desire to not die, and to place some type of penalty on players for dying, at least in my opinion does nothing more than annoy them. Perhaps even making them ragequit.
I think the respawn system is enough of a penalty, having to spawn a good distance away from where death occured in most cases is annoying enough already. To have reduced health or reduced speed on top of that just makes blood shoot out of my eyes. I loath that about Guild Wars.
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I agree, I never found myself worrying too much about light radius. I can remember being somewhat concerned about it when I first started playing, but as I discovered it didn't effect the game all that much, I stopped worrying about it.
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I don't disagree with you at all, and I really do like how they've added craftspeople into the game, and I also agree with your opinion of the Horadric Cube. Cratfspeople do create a different feel to the process, however I will quote myself, "[A]ren't you the 'player' still the one appropriating and adding materials and items into the mix, and clicking the associated 'make' button? If that's so, how is the player not crafting?" It simply seems disingenuous to state that the player isn't crafting when they obviously are, regardless of the associated feel or mechanic used to achieve it.
To get to the heart of my point, I am attempting to point out the false notion that a person might like or dislike a game on the basis of whether player crafting is included or not included. Just like this system, and to cite another, Guild Wars, they do in fact include player crafting because the player is the one that gathers the materials and induces the crafting process. It is irrelevant whether the player is able to do this via his/her own skills, or by proxy through an NPC.
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To be quite honest, I expected to be flamed. But thanks for not doing so.
I totally agree with you in that the 'feel' is totally different, and that it avoids a 'jack of all trades' type of character. However, my dissension is in the fact that Jay has stated that the player is not crafting, when in fact he/she actually is. It is a clever use of psychological factors to subtly persuade the player into feeling that they are not crafting, and I give them kudos for that, but in the end it is still player induced crafting.
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I think the attributable phrase, "...we felt that the idea that the player would have a side job [of crafting]... , ...didn't really fit the tone of a diablo game." might have more sense if the Artisan was able take care of all the crafting without having any input from the player. Now while that probably wouldn't be any fun, it is more descriptive of what Jay is stating.
In the end, if the player is contributing materials and is conducive and participatory in the crafting process, they are ipso facto 'crafting'. Granted this is a game of semantics, but the entire "heroic characters shouldn't have to craft" argument is filled with falsehoods, erroneous statements, misconceptions and probably quite a few stereotypes. An RPG (by definition) has to have some form of a crafting system (of which the player is participatory) or the end result is third person shooter/dungeon crawler.
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I will concede this point.
Not really, quite a few people complained about the wowish graphics, including myself. However I would rather play it with wowish graphics than not at all, so I can live with it. But still, I don't think Blizzard makes many decisions based on consumer feedback (Bugs and other associated feedback from beta testing are excluded.), regardless of what they tell you in public or in private. They make decisions based upon what makes money.
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I'm not contradicting this point, all I am saying is that I think their marketing department did a pathetic job. By announcing Diablo 3 so early in its development cycle, and now stating that it will be released behind WOW Cataclysm and Starcraft 2, they are pissing their fans off.
They should have officially announced it shortly after the latter of the two releases, that way while people are playing WOW and Starcraft 2, they could rev up the excitement for Diablo 3 as well.
This way they could earn the cash, and build excitement as well, all in a way that doesn't piss off their revenue generating fans.
This just seems like common sense to me.
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Quite frankly, I understand that games take quite a while to be developed and that's more than reasonable. No one wants to play a sh*tty game. However, by officially announcing a game 2 (OR 3 IN THIS CASE) years out is just ridiculous. To reiterate my opinion, They shouldn't announce the game so early in the development cycle. It just pisses fans off. Especially in the case of Diablo 3, when we've been waiting for almost a decade.
I'm no marketing wizard, but I would think announcing a year out from release would generate plenty of excitement and hype for a game. I guess the suits at Blizzard HQ disagree.
Sad...
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They should have waited until about a year to eight months before release.
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In a system where choice is allowed in any form, regardless whether those choices involve stats, skills, items, or anything else, eventually "ANYTHING" thats customizable, an "uber" system will follow.
Essentially my point is this, no matter what the developers choose to allow us to customize, eventually the best options will be found, and everyone will use that setup.
So, if we can't customize our stats (abilities), and we will be able to customize our skills, eventually the best setup for those skills will be released and everyone will start working towards them.
In conclusion, any choice will eventually lead to players seeking the "uber" setup. And if thats the case, either you must not allow any customization (Uberlame), or why not just let players screw up their characters however they want.
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What if suddenly a law was passed than said you no longer have a choice between Soft Drinks. Congress has decided than Coca-Cola was better, and from now on it is the only Soft Drink that will be produced and sold.
I bet that would piss you off huh? What if you don't like Coca-Cola? I feel the same way when it comes to this game. Players should always be allowed to choose the path of their characters. That is what makes it a Role Playing Game. They are taking the "Role" out of it.
Choice, choice, choice. PERIOD!
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It is just that an opinion, based upon a style of play that you like and thats fine. I prefer a different way, even if I do make a mistake, I want the choice to make it. Thats part of the fun in my perspective.
Additionally, not everyone wants to create an uber-pvp character. Some of us just like playing through the story, and perhaps some co-op with friends.
Positively speaking, I do really like the idea of adding runes to skills, and the respecing feature. But, but, how many runes will there be (i.e., how many possible combinations), and...
If they plan on using a respec system, why have the stat assigning? Because all of us retards can't make a mistake right, because all of those "stupid" builds are eliminated.
We will all see in the end with D3, however I think these changes are going down the wrong path.
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WOW is so watered down, and "kid" friendly a monkey (even without opposable thumbs) could play it and pwn an average player.
One of the major aspects of a "role" playing game, is that you have control over what your character does. With this iteration you don't really have much choice.
I really hate when customization in any capacity for anything, is sacrificed for a certain group of people.
I was really excited when I learned that D3 was finally going to be release, however after seeing all the WOW carryovers, I'm wondering if I will spend my money on this game.
Sad...