When did I say that you in particular disrespected the company?
Quote from "Equinox" »
Aggressive? It smells of bad parenting.They disrespect the company, they make fun of the guy who spoke for the gameplay trailer, they make nasty comparisons, they think the company owes them something.
There.
You really do have to make up your mind though, as Oakwarrior keeps saying. Do they listen to fans? Do they listen to people? (I'm pretty sure that fans are people too)
Now, why would we want to be quiet? We came to the Diablo (or Starcraft) forums to talk about a game we're excited about. But what are we going to talk about if not what we like and don't like about it. Isn't this why we're here?
I'm kind of surprised to see you here since you're not a fan of Diablo II. (this is not a put-down in any shape of form, just honest puzzlement)
Aggressive? It smells of bad parenting. They disrespect the company, they make fun of the guy who spoke for the gameplay trailer, they make nasty comparisons, they think the company owes them something.
If the old company that released my fav game suddenly announced the sequel to it... I'd be very, very quiet...
When did I disrespect the company? I've loved Starcraft for 10 years and I've loved SC2 from the day it was announced. I offered up my CONSTRUCTIVE criticism along with everyone else on other boards. I didn't make fun of anybody. I spoke about what I liked and didn't like and have been behind the devs since day one. I don't think the company owes me anything other than a good game, worthy of the name Starcraft. 'Cause it's going to be my $60 that go in their pockets when I buy the game.
Whinging, bitching comes from people who lack intelligence, patience, and respect. Such individuals, I believe, should not be listened to.
So what?
No, that's criticism coming from idiots which means a lot of people have no idea what's going on.
I only accept one form of feedback. Constructive criticism. Any other form means it's fanboys speaking.
You do realize you're just bitching right now, don't you? We didn't say that Blizzard scours the forums and reads every bit of what people say and throw it in the game. Do you know how many builds of the game they've tried? They put something in, test it, if it works they leave it in and keep on testing, adding and removing stuff. They try and try and try. And if they see something interesting coming from the fans and they think it's worth it they will try it out. What do we have to lose?
And one more thing: When you're working on something, you're very close to it. You can't see everything, which is why you want feedback from people around you. And maybe most of the time it'll be stuff you've already thought of, and you'll be nodding your head and thinking "get on with it" and suddenly you'll see something and step up and say: Huh! That tank does look like a cartoon elephant! You guys, you think we can do anything better than this?
You're right, it is a bit aggressive. I guess sometimes you get caught up in writing the thing and then you realize that being a bit angry about the whole thing sort of seeps in. I really can't do much better than give a quote from a Blizzard official. But then you get grief about that too: "Sure, that's what they would say, but that's not what they MEAN.":confused:
Okay, Equinox, you got me. You're right. Blizzard doesn't care. That's why they have professional Starcraft 1 gamers testing the game and ask feedback about new units they add to the game from the community. Just to stroke our egos and make us feel like we've contributed. Oh, about the changes: Are you blind? First one looks shiny and plastic. The second one has the perfect Terran feel.
And it's not just that. The siege tank got a lot of grief and was changed. The terran marines lost their bayonnets. The proportions of the units changed because a lot of people complained about them. I'm not saying that Blizzard bends to every comment and criticism, but I have seen the influence of the community in dozens of little ways everywhere.
But you, no! If somebody came out today and said: "I'd like to see a pink penguin, like the one in the teaser for D3" and Blizzard came out the next day with a screenshot of a pink penguin devouring an ultralisk, I'm sure you'd still say that it was their plan all along. Get over yourself. If you haven't been following the developments, don't knock on those who have. They might, just might, know a little bit more about it than you.
i think it was the direction in the begginning, i said the same thing about diablo 3, just wait till it is released and see how many poeple are discussion wehter or not D3 looks bad ass and threy changed alot becuase the fans asked them to, or becuase it was in the origianl plan, im gonna put money blizzard had it already planned.
Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans. You can clearly see that from Karune's comment. Blizzard does listen to the fans.
I was just trying to bring an example to the table. You have to admit though that Sands departs a lot from the style of the original POP (which was actually the argument) both stylistically and on the gameplay side. Me, I just see Diablo III as the next logical step. I love the design and it does feel dark to me. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Still, I wish the petition was made public so we could actually see what's going on. It would be pretty nasty if the whole thing was spammed up a few levels. Or maybe I'm just plain wrong. Oh, well, enough contemplating abut that, back to studying (last exam date tomorrow!! Woooooh!!)
Sure Oakwarrior, it has been advertised, but why would people who are not hardcore fans of Diablo sign the petition? For example, I really liked Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. It was a nice game and I was looking forward to it when it was announced. I had played the (really) old POP games so the nostalgia factor was there. But you know what? If a petition had been floating around saying that "Hey, this isn't our beloved Prince of Persia! What have you done to it?!!" I wouldn't have signed it. Why? Because I didn't care! I'm not a hardcore old-school POP gamer! I played it when I was a kid, I loved it, but there is nothing that moves me to sign a petition to change the art direction of the game.
It's been almost ten years since Diablo II. Most people have moved on. Suddenly, they get the announcement that Diablo III is coming out! Cool! They see the announcement, the videos and in all respects this looks like a kickass game. Now, remember: We are not talking about people who have been awaiting a sequel ever since they finished LoD, who have trawled the net for news and rumors for 8 years (I did that for almost 10 years for Starcraft 2, so I know what THAT feels like). They're just excited to see a sequel to a game they loved.
Now that's the way I see it. It's my opinion that a lot of the pictures that people are darkening down look a lot worse than what we're seeing from Blizzard. It's also an opinion that I see shared a lot in these forums (long time lurker). I don't think that even 60% of people in here hate the look. So why would so many people who ARE NOT hardcore fans sign the petition when even this community doesn't wholeheartedly believe in it?
I'm just saying that there doesn't seem to be a large enough group of people to warrant 45000 signatures. How many people would you say are members in this forum? 2000? How many people in all Diablo fansites' forums? 10000? (being probably a VERY optimistic estimate)
How many of them against the current art direction? 70% (also a VERY optimistic estimate)
Finally: How many of them would bother to vote about it? It doesn't seem to add up (even if you jack up the estimates to 20-30 thousand people)
Actually, as a longtime fan of Starcraft, I've been following all news about Starcraft 2 and can shed a little light on this. First of all, we have gotten numerous assurances from the developers that they check the fansites and forums to get feedback on all the information they regularly release. In fact, it's common knowledge that both Cavez, StarCraft 2’s lead game designer, and Karune, Blizzard’s RTS community manager, visit the battle.net forums and sometimes post there and address issues brought up by the fans.
They DO take suggestions. They also have monthly discussion topics, where they ask the community for contribution and feedback on things that they're trying out.
For those of you worried about the art direction of Diablo III, check this out:
"Chat with Devs: This week I got a chance to talk to Sam Didier, our StarCraft II Art Director, about some of the feedback weve gotten from our most recent monthly discussion. Over the next few weeks we will be trying out a few things on the upcoming screenshots, including a reduced saturation which will increase the realism of the units and environment. This is just a test, so we will see how it goes afterwards, but we look forward to getting everyones feedback."
So the art change in Starcraft was a direct effect of the voicing of opinions by fans. I don't know how the team of Diablo III will operate. Maybe they will follow the same strategy of practically public development that the SC2 devs have and maybe they won't. However, that doesn't mean that they're not listening. Pass the word around, quote and link to this post, make people realize that in order to get the game you want, you're going to have to show what you want. And if anybody tells you that constructive criticism won't change anything, they are wrong.
Oh, whining on the other hand, doesn't work. Someone at the WWI (I think Karune, but I'm not sure) said in response to fans negative reactions about the wings they have added to zerglings that every time he hears someone complain about it, he'll have the team add two more wings!
So there you have it: Blizzard is listening. Do you have anything worthwhile to say?
P.S. I'm curious about the size of the petition against the current design of the game. It seems to me that there isn't such an overwhelming majority of people against it on the forums, nothing on the scale of, say, the Spider-man fans reactions to One More Day. The petition has passed 45000 signatures. Is there anyway there could be foul play? (and why can't I view any of the signatures like I can on many other petitions? All I get is the number of the people who have signed)
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There.
You really do have to make up your mind though, as Oakwarrior keeps saying. Do they listen to fans? Do they listen to people? (I'm pretty sure that fans are people too)
Now, why would we want to be quiet? We came to the Diablo (or Starcraft) forums to talk about a game we're excited about. But what are we going to talk about if not what we like and don't like about it. Isn't this why we're here?
I'm kind of surprised to see you here since you're not a fan of Diablo II. (this is not a put-down in any shape of form, just honest puzzlement)
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When did I disrespect the company? I've loved Starcraft for 10 years and I've loved SC2 from the day it was announced. I offered up my CONSTRUCTIVE criticism along with everyone else on other boards. I didn't make fun of anybody. I spoke about what I liked and didn't like and have been behind the devs since day one. I don't think the company owes me anything other than a good game, worthy of the name Starcraft. 'Cause it's going to be my $60 that go in their pockets when I buy the game.
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You do realize you're just bitching right now, don't you? We didn't say that Blizzard scours the forums and reads every bit of what people say and throw it in the game. Do you know how many builds of the game they've tried? They put something in, test it, if it works they leave it in and keep on testing, adding and removing stuff. They try and try and try. And if they see something interesting coming from the fans and they think it's worth it they will try it out. What do we have to lose?
And one more thing: When you're working on something, you're very close to it. You can't see everything, which is why you want feedback from people around you. And maybe most of the time it'll be stuff you've already thought of, and you'll be nodding your head and thinking "get on with it" and suddenly you'll see something and step up and say: Huh! That tank does look like a cartoon elephant! You guys, you think we can do anything better than this?
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And it's not just that. The siege tank got a lot of grief and was changed. The terran marines lost their bayonnets. The proportions of the units changed because a lot of people complained about them. I'm not saying that Blizzard bends to every comment and criticism, but I have seen the influence of the community in dozens of little ways everywhere.
But you, no! If somebody came out today and said: "I'd like to see a pink penguin, like the one in the teaser for D3" and Blizzard came out the next day with a screenshot of a pink penguin devouring an ultralisk, I'm sure you'd still say that it was their plan all along. Get over yourself. If you haven't been following the developments, don't knock on those who have. They might, just might, know a little bit more about it than you.
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Amen to that! Thanks! See you guys later.
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Eh, did you see my post in the previous page? They actually did change it because of feedback from the fans. You can clearly see that from Karune's comment. Blizzard does listen to the fans.
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It's been almost ten years since Diablo II. Most people have moved on. Suddenly, they get the announcement that Diablo III is coming out! Cool! They see the announcement, the videos and in all respects this looks like a kickass game. Now, remember: We are not talking about people who have been awaiting a sequel ever since they finished LoD, who have trawled the net for news and rumors for 8 years (I did that for almost 10 years for Starcraft 2, so I know what THAT feels like). They're just excited to see a sequel to a game they loved.
Now that's the way I see it. It's my opinion that a lot of the pictures that people are darkening down look a lot worse than what we're seeing from Blizzard. It's also an opinion that I see shared a lot in these forums (long time lurker). I don't think that even 60% of people in here hate the look. So why would so many people who ARE NOT hardcore fans sign the petition when even this community doesn't wholeheartedly believe in it?
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How many of them against the current art direction? 70% (also a VERY optimistic estimate)
Finally: How many of them would bother to vote about it? It doesn't seem to add up (even if you jack up the estimates to 20-30 thousand people)
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They DO take suggestions. They also have monthly discussion topics, where they ask the community for contribution and feedback on things that they're trying out.
http://www.sc2blog.com/2008/01/21/summarizing-december%e2%80%99s-monthly-discussion-artistic-direction/
For those of you worried about the art direction of Diablo III, check this out:
"Chat with Devs: This week I got a chance to talk to Sam Didier, our StarCraft II Art Director, about some of the feedback weve gotten from our most recent monthly discussion. Over the next few weeks we will be trying out a few things on the upcoming screenshots, including a reduced saturation which will increase the realism of the units and environment. This is just a test, so we will see how it goes afterwards, but we look forward to getting everyones feedback."
source: http://www.sc2blog.com/2008/01/11/qa-25-nomad-buildings-protoss-shields-and-starcraft-2-resolutions/
So the art change in Starcraft was a direct effect of the voicing of opinions by fans. I don't know how the team of Diablo III will operate. Maybe they will follow the same strategy of practically public development that the SC2 devs have and maybe they won't. However, that doesn't mean that they're not listening. Pass the word around, quote and link to this post, make people realize that in order to get the game you want, you're going to have to show what you want. And if anybody tells you that constructive criticism won't change anything, they are wrong.
Oh, whining on the other hand, doesn't work. Someone at the WWI (I think Karune, but I'm not sure) said in response to fans negative reactions about the wings they have added to zerglings that every time he hears someone complain about it, he'll have the team add two more wings!
So there you have it: Blizzard is listening. Do you have anything worthwhile to say?
P.S. I'm curious about the size of the petition against the current design of the game. It seems to me that there isn't such an overwhelming majority of people against it on the forums, nothing on the scale of, say, the Spider-man fans reactions to One More Day. The petition has passed 45000 signatures. Is there anyway there could be foul play? (and why can't I view any of the signatures like I can on many other petitions? All I get is the number of the people who have signed)