You will, at best, feel indifferent when you get your second copy of the most rare item in the game, in an RNG based itemhunting game - most people will just rage.
IF you ever find the rarest item in the game twice, consider not raging at all
You could make a real life experiment out of this. Have someone win a lottery - any lottery, any amount, doesn't matter as long as it's vastly better than the consolation prize he's about to receive (the shard, in D3X!), then he keeps playing and when he wins again, he gets told 'you should've won the other one, not this! gtfo! here's a paperclip' and record the reactions
I thought about the same example actually and my idea was, someone who has won 50 million $ already would gain absolutely nothing from another 50m. Well, 50m, sure, but there's only so much you can spend.
However, that is irrelevant simply because of the odds. You can't argue against something with one tiny example that could happen in theory.
You will, at best, feel indifferent when you get your second copy of the most rare item in the game, in an RNG based itemhunting game - most people will just rage.
IF you ever find the rarest item in the game twice, consider not raging at all
Restrict trading to item 4 item, leave out the gold, that means that you have to actually find something worth trading unless someone is giving out freebies (is that really a problem? I never found it to be in D2 I enjoyed levelling up my barb so I could slowly equip that full IK set after someone had dropped the maul and chest for me while I was lvl10 after finding the boots/gloves/belt/helm myself on a different char (don't think I ever had maul or armour drop)). Would it be possible to bybass the restrictions? Sure. Would it be easy? Relatively. Convenient? probably not, and that seems fine to me.
At the risk of sounding like a history teacher, I don't like your example. If you had used a D3 set like Natalya's or Inna's, where all parts are equal, ok, but I'm not sure if you mean what you said.
The IK armor was so extremely rare that it'd be comparable to a crit Mempo, maybe even a 6% crit Mempo, I'm not sure. Finding all the rest of the set was trivial in comparison, with the weapon being a low tier "elite" item and the remaining items being only of the "exceptional" level.
So I might agree with what you had in mind but not with a situation like the one you described. If 10 items (not runes or such) from D2 would have been considered too top tier to be allowed for trade, that chest would have been among them. And I do like that restriction for some top end items.
With a 7 day delay and the necessity to join friends list (or clan, as an alternative idea) it would not be done for every average item, and for the top items some people will always find a way (even if it's selling entire accounts).
The way'd be "friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend"
Yes but with the current ideals because we can't really trade they boost the drop rates so high that it becomes trivial within weeks. It has been confirmed drop rates were affected because of the AH, now with the removal of AH drop rates will naturally increase.
It's all about the tuning and too many people think, that they'll drastically overdo it.
Yes, drop rates are going to increase (in quality), but no one said, they'll shower us in epic loot.
i get ~ 5 per hour.... way too much IMO (theyre all brimstone btw) and they said they want raise the droprates even more for legendarys (and turn it down for yellows while buffing the quality)
Lucky you. I'm lucky if I get 0.5/hour and they're still all brimstone worthy.
5 isn't unrealistic though. With a lvl100 Barb you can get that, maybe more. Don't feel like testing that. Wouldn't call that too much, I guess, especially considering that this is at the MF cap.
Drop rates like in the glorified D2 (Mephisto) would be way too high.
- Pro soulbound legendaries, Anti legendaries dropping like crazy
But I will go one step further and say that I want some legendary drops to be rarer than others.
For instance currently if a legendary drops it will roll for what items type it is, lets say it rolls a two handed sword.
There are about 10 possibilities it can be and each have a 1/10 chance to be rolled.- all are equal
I would prefer if 1 of those 10 legendaries actually had a 1/100 chance to be rolled, and another 1/1000.
Those 2 legendaries might be BoA items but the other 8 are not as they are more common and can be traded
I mostly agree. I don't know if there should be any tradeable legendaries, though. And I think, the current chances of a legendary item type turning into one of the possible items aren't equal, which is mostly caused by ilvl-differences.
At some point I read that every time you find a legendary/set item, there will be a notification in your clan (!) channel. Do I remember this correctly? Because this doesn't make sense if everything is BoA; either this notification or the BoA rule should be removed then. Another hint that it's all work in progress. ;-)
I remember reading that too. Your conclusion isn't valid though. In Hearthstone, you also get notified when a friend of yours unwraps a legendary card, which you can't get from him.
Depends on what you mean by that. If you only want more/better drops for yourself while playing the game, that's fine. But you can't have that plus an economy, in which it is easier to aquire items via playing than via trading, which is, what most people mean by "fix loot".
No matter how good and fancy items are on an individual basis and no matter how frequently they drop, 5 million other players will find anything before YOU do. And then you can get those items off them for virtually nothing (because they all compete with each other) long before you could ever hope to find them "legitimately".
Where you're wrong is when you assume that all those people will be competing within the same 'economic arena' - like they did in the AH. What, so you think EVERYONE will use the same 3rd party site? You think EVERYONE will spam trade chats? You're crazy if you think that's the case. With the AH gone, the truth of the matter is most people probably won't be bothered to exit the game just to buy an item, and they definitely won't spam trade chat (or read said spam). The AH had millions of users because it was there, in-game, it was safe, and it was hassle free: enter affixes, buy item, send to stash, done. With all those conveniences gone, the amount of people that participate in any kind of 'global' economy would be a tiny fraction of the amount that participated in the AH.
Well, these days any bad Mempo may be at 10k gold in the AH. When do you have that amount of gold? After normal act2? Sure that price would go up after a removal of the AH. But I'd give you any bet, that it'd still be easier to aquire a Mempo by way of trading than to actually find it. In D2, uniques were also sold in bulk for gems and such.
Would you still take the elevator, knowing that, on one hand, you're NOT doing something you love (climbing), and, on the other hand, knowing you'll have a terrible experience with the elevator?
I see, what you mean, but this view is too drastic imo. It's not that the challenge of climbing the rope is so amazing, it's the challenge-reward relation. If you can get said reward (getting to the top) without a challenge, in a convenient way, there's no point taking the challenge. Though it's ok, if you think so. I'm not telling you, who is right or wrong
You can't just do that. No matter how good and fancy items are on an individual basis and no matter how frequently they drop, 5 million other players will find anything before YOU do. And then you can get those items off them for virtually nothing (because they all compete with each other) long before you could ever hope to find them "legitimately".
I see, you haven't traded in Diablo 2 then, I guess? Try to get a highrune for "virtually nothing" when you just start playing in a new ladder season. Have fun. In most cases I find a highrune first myself and trade it for a different one.
Well, if I remember correctly, the last time I traded with a stranger was in 1.08, back when Vampire Gaze had fixed stats. After abandoning D2 for DAoC, I only ever returned to play self-found from time to time.
However that's not the point, neither is the "virtually nothing" in its literal meaning. I put that in "" for a reason
The point is, trading for something that 5 million people already have and are willing to sell, takes much less "effort" than getting said item through playing the game. THIS is the prime dilemma of D3 as of now and that's what they're trying to tackle with this move.
Diablo has many flaws and the best way to get the loot hunt back in diablo is with BoA legendaries and sets.
That is just sooo wrong.
The best way for them to "get the loot hunt back" would be to actually fix the fucking loot, no?
For all their talk about what would make the game fun, the one damn thing they could've done (fix the loot drops), they haven't done. They haven't even tried since 8 weeks after launch. That was over a year and a half ago.
Could you please be reasonable? All these demands to just "fix loot" are not thought through. It's like asking them to finally cure Aids, after all those complaints about it..
You can't just do that. No matter how good and fancy items are on an individual basis and no matter how frequently they drop, 5 million other players will find anything before YOU do. And then you can get those items off them for virtually nothing (because they all compete with each other) long before you could ever hope to find them "legitimately".
You may personally not care ("self-discipline" and yadda yadda), but for example, I do. I don't climb a rope when there's a lift that everyone else uses. Feels just stupid. I'm all for the challenge but not in such cases.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
About giving items to friends. Friends who are not that high lvl to get such equipment by themselves.
I know, most people like to do that, me included. But thinking about it got me to this question:
How are these friends any different (or: better) than players who just use their wallet to get those items? Someone didn't kill Illidan? He didn't get a Warglaive, period. Why would we want to change that for friends but at the same time boo at those, who trade for such? Also, doesn't that spoil the fun for those friends? What's to enjoy about a 1.2k dps lvl46 EF on your very first playthrough?
I have to ask a bigger question than that...
Twinking exists in many games. Who cares? I'm 100% with maka on this. There are some things that have to be player-enforced. If twinking isn't fun for you then please, just don't do it. The fact that you think twinking ruins the game isn't a very good reason to remove trading from the game, though. This is exactly why I say Blizzard has to stop trying to socially-engineer the game. These "problems" that people keep bringing up are better solved by restraing, and self-imposed restrictions than by lobbying Blizzard to play nanny.
Don't judge so fast I like twinking, I did it in every game so far, but that's different on your 5th char than on someone's first. I agree that a restriction on that is not necessary. But you didn't answer, why your friend should get such items but not some foreigner who buys it off another foreigner.
By the way, all those missing features you listed about giving items to someone you know: That would be rather easy: Just flag items to be only tradeable to someone in your clan/(chat-)group (at the time of the drop). Would solve all your issues, I guess.
Would also lead to a "d2jsp"-group.. "You want to buy our stuff? Need to be in our (chat-)group at the time of the drop"
I thought about the same example actually and my idea was, someone who has won 50 million $ already would gain absolutely nothing from another 50m. Well, 50m, sure, but there's only so much you can spend.
However, that is irrelevant simply because of the odds. You can't argue against something with one tiny example that could happen in theory.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
IF you ever find the rarest item in the game twice, consider not raging at all
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
At the risk of sounding like a history teacher, I don't like your example. If you had used a D3 set like Natalya's or Inna's, where all parts are equal, ok, but I'm not sure if you mean what you said.
The IK armor was so extremely rare that it'd be comparable to a crit Mempo, maybe even a 6% crit Mempo, I'm not sure. Finding all the rest of the set was trivial in comparison, with the weapon being a low tier "elite" item and the remaining items being only of the "exceptional" level.
So I might agree with what you had in mind but not with a situation like the one you described. If 10 items (not runes or such) from D2 would have been considered too top tier to be allowed for trade, that chest would have been among them. And I do like that restriction for some top end items.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
The way'd be "friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend"
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
It's all about the tuning and too many people think, that they'll drastically overdo it.
Yes, drop rates are going to increase (in quality), but no one said, they'll shower us in epic loot.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
5 isn't unrealistic though. With a lvl100 Barb you can get that, maybe more. Don't feel like testing that. Wouldn't call that too much, I guess, especially considering that this is at the MF cap.
Drop rates like in the glorified D2 (Mephisto) would be way too high.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I mostly agree. I don't know if there should be any tradeable legendaries, though. And I think, the current chances of a legendary item type turning into one of the possible items aren't equal, which is mostly caused by ilvl-differences.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I remember reading that too. Your conclusion isn't valid though. In Hearthstone, you also get notified when a friend of yours unwraps a legendary card, which you can't get from him.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Depends on what you mean by that. If you only want more/better drops for yourself while playing the game, that's fine. But you can't have that plus an economy, in which it is easier to aquire items via playing than via trading, which is, what most people mean by "fix loot".
Well, you have to mean those people that used to trade/buy their stuff to faceroll MP10. I'm very sorry they won't be able to do so anymore
Well, these days any bad Mempo may be at 10k gold in the AH. When do you have that amount of gold? After normal act2? Sure that price would go up after a removal of the AH. But I'd give you any bet, that it'd still be easier to aquire a Mempo by way of trading than to actually find it. In D2, uniques were also sold in bulk for gems and such.
I see, what you mean, but this view is too drastic imo. It's not that the challenge of climbing the rope is so amazing, it's the challenge-reward relation. If you can get said reward (getting to the top) without a challenge, in a convenient way, there's no point taking the challenge. Though it's ok, if you think so. I'm not telling you, who is right or wrong
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Well, if I remember correctly, the last time I traded with a stranger was in 1.08, back when Vampire Gaze had fixed stats. After abandoning D2 for DAoC, I only ever returned to play self-found from time to time.
However that's not the point, neither is the "virtually nothing" in its literal meaning. I put that in "" for a reason
The point is, trading for something that 5 million people already have and are willing to sell, takes much less "effort" than getting said item through playing the game. THIS is the prime dilemma of D3 as of now and that's what they're trying to tackle with this move.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Could you please be reasonable? All these demands to just "fix loot" are not thought through. It's like asking them to finally cure Aids, after all those complaints about it..
You can't just do that. No matter how good and fancy items are on an individual basis and no matter how frequently they drop, 5 million other players will find anything before YOU do. And then you can get those items off them for virtually nothing (because they all compete with each other) long before you could ever hope to find them "legitimately".
You may personally not care ("self-discipline" and yadda yadda), but for example, I do. I don't climb a rope when there's a lift that everyone else uses. Feels just stupid. I'm all for the challenge but not in such cases.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I suppose, it's better to have a restriction -even this most restrictive one- to the trading of legendaries than having none.
Maybe some middle-ground would be better but I could shut down all of my ideas in that regard myself with reasons why they wouldn't work
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
you know!
Reminds me of that Cleric in NWN2..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Don't judge so fast
By the way, all those missing features you listed about giving items to someone you know: That would be rather easy: Just flag items to be only tradeable to someone in your clan/(chat-)group (at the time of the drop). Would solve all your issues, I guess.
Would also lead to a "d2jsp"-group.. "You want to buy our stuff? Need to be in our (chat-)group at the time of the drop"
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450