My wizard has 126 Int ... would have been able to farm up to 130+ (13 resistance).
Now to add to the topic... Int adds the elemental resistances (NOT PHYSICAL).
Armor decreases ALL damage (sames as elemental resistances + physical).
However, armor probably has a much higher diminishing return than resistances. Both are calculated with Raw Number vs enemy level... but with the resistance numbers being lower... the curve hasn't hit yet.
Also Resistances are additional reductions in addition to armor. If the wizard/wd stacks up 40% damage reduction with armor and 60% with resistances thats 74% less magic damage. If the barb has 60% damage reduction and 20% resistance... thats 68% less magic damage.
You're right, you might be able to get 13 all resistance in beta, my bad.
Your calculations at the end are nothing but wild speculations. We've got no idea how end-game will look. HOWEVER, it would not make any sense if a Wizard had better survival stats than a barbarian, would it? Barb got 30% DR for free so that he could be melee and take more dmg. Mele wizard got no such buff. When creating a character, a wiz is a wiz and a wiz is weaker than a barb from a defensive perspective - that's the cost of being ranged.
Either all Wizards will be stronger than barbs (as they have about the same dmg, but according to you better stats and on top of that range) or barbs will be stronger than melee Wizards. I find option two more likely.
I'm highly confident that with the right gear, and the right skills, and the right player.... A melee Wiz will be a strong build.
However, I'm also fairly confident that with the wrong build, the wrong player, and the wrong gear... a melee wiz will blow.
Sumsarr, I'm confused why you reiterated that the Barb/Monk 30% damage reduction affects all 6 damage types. I must have written something not clear in my first post to cause confusion on this well known documented truth. Please clarify so others don't make the same mistake or misread what I wrote. I will correct it.
Also just want to state again. INT also increases DR to all 6 damage types. (Yes I know there's 7 damage types in name, but Blizzard has already said that Holy is a shared damage type so there's really 6).
INT = STR = Defense = Armor = DR => all affect all 6 damage types in game. Only later will gear and Wizard's odd-ball Passive affect specifics damage types.
Anyways, let me state my opinion for the record. Wizard will never be a melee viable class if playing solo in Inferno. How do I know this.....because wizard doesn't have a skill that grants DR reduction to the enemy. Every class except wizard has one or two. And yes DH's passive that gives damage reduction (to the enemy) is crap-tastic. So to me, a melee Wizard will have to be played with Monk/WD/Barb, preferable all three for some serious DR debuffing.
Edit: Forgot to say one last thing. Sumsarr you cited the Dexterity as an example of how the exchange rate works, it takes progressively more and more dexterity to get the same benefits. The break points currently discovered occur at 100 and 500. So we know of three tiers already for dexterity. However, just like how World of Warcraft makes the exchange rate higher and higher as you level, we don't know how much DR% will be getting from 1,000 Int at level 60 vice level 40. Sure it'll still be the same 1,000 stat attributes, but no way will it be the same derived DR%.
Sorry for the confusion. The part about 30% DR wasn't only to you, but to all people who seem to think the DR is simply on physical damage.
My main point was, however, int is not as good as the DR.
- If that was the case, casters would be the best class in game by only stacking one stat. WD and Wiz would only stack Int and get damage as they got best defensive stats. Would be quite broken?
- Blizzard gave barb/monk 30% dr not because wiz got beefed up with int buff, but because they will be forced to take more dmg as they are melee. The int buff replaced life/orb which Blizzard found worse than dodge/DR from str/dex on barb/monk.
- We got the numbers. You get 0,1 all resistance per int. If you stack int as your one and only stat in beta you get about 10 all resistance.
- By the way, barb will have better synergy with resist than casters (50% bonus resist on shout compared to 40% on wiz armor).
I am guessing int gives a slight boost in all resistances as the casters will take some elemental dmg, some melee dmg and some range phys damage. They therefore need a slight boost to all stats.
Barb and Monk on the other hand received 30% DR because they will be taking a shitload of dmg. Aside from that, they also got strong physical reduction on their primary attributes in order to sustain enough surviveability to go toe to toe with mobs.
My wizard has 126 Int ... would have been able to farm up to 130+ (13 resistance).
Now to add to the topic... Int adds the elemental resistances (NOT PHYSICAL).
Armor decreases ALL damage (sames as elemental resistances + physical).
However, armor probably has a much higher diminishing return than resistances. Both are calculated with Raw Number vs enemy level... but with the resistance numbers being lower... the curve hasn't hit yet.
Also Resistances are additional reductions in addition to armor. If the wizard/wd stacks up 40% damage reduction with armor and 60% with resistances thats 74% less magic damage. If the barb has 60% damage reduction and 20% resistance... thats 68% less magic damage.
By viable I mean competitive. I fully believe that at this point there's no information that shoots the melee wizard out of water.
You may insist that defensively there is no comparison but I think the majority agrees that the differences are not that great (and have been shown in this thread). Even more so, it's been shown that the despite falling behind a bit in defense, the melee wizard will put out more damage which I feel will offset the slight disadvantage they have on the defense front.
Until the game comes out and we can see for ourselves, I don't really think there's much else to talk about concerning this topic.
The melee Wizard will not do more damage than the melee Barbarian. Claiming that is a joke. There is a SLIGHT chance that the melee Wizard does more damage when she actually hits, but there is no way to compensate for the lack of charge (basicly no CD with rune) and dashing strike (no cd). A melee character without mobility is really awkward.
The difference between them will be (just as I showed in post #66) that barb has 6 skill slots and slightly better stats than a Wizard with 5 skill slots. Speaking competitively, that's a freaking HUGE difference. I've played a lot of competitive Heroes of Newerth and I know inbalance when I see it. Here is how it should be if it is competitive: http://www.teamliqui...?topic_id=64514
How is Teleport not mobility?
15 sec CD and 15 AP cost. That's horribel if we compare to charge with Merciless Assault. Teleport is a really good spell for jumping long distances (leaping away from danger). It's not very good for fast paced melee combat.
Honestly at later difficulties i wouldn't be too surprised to see killing speed decrease... and with it the need for less than 15 seconds between cool downs...
By viable I mean competitive. I fully believe that at this point there's no information that shoots the melee wizard out of water.
You may insist that defensively there is no comparison but I think the majority agrees that the differences are not that great (and have been shown in this thread). Even more so, it's been shown that the despite falling behind a bit in defense, the melee wizard will put out more damage which I feel will offset the slight disadvantage they have on the defense front.
Until the game comes out and we can see for ourselves, I don't really think there's much else to talk about concerning this topic.
The melee Wizard will not do more damage than the melee Barbarian. Claiming that is a joke. There is a SLIGHT chance that the melee Wizard does more damage when she actually hits, but there is no way to compensate for the lack of charge (basicly no CD with rune) and dashing strike (no cd). A melee character without mobility is really awkward.
The difference between them will be (just as I showed in post #66) that barb has 6 skill slots and slightly better stats than a Wizard with 5 skill slots. Speaking competitively, that's a freaking HUGE difference. I've played a lot of competitive Heroes of Newerth and I know inbalance when I see it. Here is how it should be if it is competitive: http://www.teamliqui...?topic_id=64514
How is Teleport not mobility?
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I'm highly confident that with the right gear, and the right skills, and the right player.... A melee Wiz will be a strong build.
However, I'm also fairly confident that with the wrong build, the wrong player, and the wrong gear... a melee wiz will blow.
My wizard has 126 Int ... would have been able to farm up to 130+ (13 resistance).
Now to add to the topic... Int adds the elemental resistances (NOT PHYSICAL).
Armor decreases ALL damage (sames as elemental resistances + physical).
However, armor probably has a much higher diminishing return than resistances. Both are calculated with Raw Number vs enemy level... but with the resistance numbers being lower... the curve hasn't hit yet.
Also Resistances are additional reductions in addition to armor. If the wizard/wd stacks up 40% damage reduction with armor and 60% with resistances thats 74% less magic damage. If the barb has 60% damage reduction and 20% resistance... thats 68% less magic damage.
Honestly at later difficulties i wouldn't be too surprised to see killing speed decrease... and with it the need for less than 15 seconds between cool downs...
How is Teleport not mobility?