with spirit barrage and haunt you dont even have to see the mobs you can just spam it blindly into the next room and they will pretty much auto target its way to mobs :P.
one big problem with haunt and trying to dot things up is that its hard to aim on the right one and you loose allot by applying haunt to the same target twice as it does not stack (this can easyly happen with the way hit boxes are and the auto target). also its hard to see what mobs are debuffed or not.
i think it should with like a 50% reduction per application.(1st:575% 2nd: 287% 3rd: 144% 4th 72%) this would increase its effictiveness alot while still not getting to OP, and attacking the same target twice is no longer a problem.
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gargantuans Base skill is increased to 100% for 25% witch means that big stinker also will recieve it as it hits for 25% now in addition to the AoE.
i can agree, that locus swarm is fine considering how many targets it can affect. but haunts damage even if its more spam able is just low.
if we take a look at the new damage of zombie wall and grasp of the dead.
WoZ 800% over 5 sec = 160% a sec and if we include the CD its 32% a sec
and grasp 320% (426%) over 8 sec = 40% (53%) a seconds.
and the fact that they will have the same damage out put as locus swarm and haunt with additional monster slow and blocking, they are vastly supperior.
sure haunt can fly trought walls so you can pre DoT em and locus swarm can spread to a great degree.
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the patch notes we see at the frontpage is nowhere complete and they are probably still weaking the numbers a fair bit.
locus swarm and haunt is not even on the list. (tho they have mentioned they have changed the way dots are calculated (everything normalized to 2 APS or 1 aps per tick (2 tics a second)) and that might have been enought,
but they are still very weak compared to the new exploding palm (745% over 9 seconds) and new rend 700%(903%) over 5 seconds AoE, one could argue that locus swarm can damage more mobs but 360%(468%) over 8 seconds is just LOW compared to rend and palm. not to mention Haunt 575% over 12! seconds single target. thats just retarded
Huant: 48% a sec
locus swarm: 45%(58,5%) a sec
Rend: 140%(180%) a sec
exploding palm: 82% a sec + an explotion of 30% of targets life to everything around it (probably caped)
and i tought WD was the DoT class so if they dont tweak teh numbers of haunt and locus swarm im out of build options other then channeling bears for 7 seconds and wait 12 seconds to get my mana back i guess.
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im baffled at the zombie charger changes no one will still not use any other rune other then explosive beast and bears unless they change the animation drastically. or have the cost reduced while using some of the runes.
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i did a test for fun just to see how much mana regeneration i could come up to and i hit 1225 mana per second. sure i cheated a bit with honed guest but hey.
without VQ, rain dance i got up to 127 mana regen while spamming spirit barrage.
Edit: did some calculations with the new mechanics and the possible max (in my gear) after the patch is somewhere around 834, its not practical just a maximum.
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Well th epoint is not to be able to cast em standing still doing nothing else.
you need to take into concideration that you need to cast support spells like grasp, zombie wall, soul harvest or mass confusion, once in a while. and that will let you regen some mana, and you will also have to move out of danger from time to time
moving will give you atleast 50-150 mana back depending on your gear.
also you will not need most of the stuff if you drop BBV - rain dance. this is where you will get the infinite mana to spam bears for atleast 20 seconds. and that should kill most stuff within that time period.
spirit walk honed guest will give you back alot of mana also.
another thing the new ruse of essence giving you 5 mana per sec per cast for 10 seconds could also be enought to bring mana back, especialy with haunts mana back glyph.
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great news everyone WDs new set seems to get 20 mana regeneration as its 4 p bonus, and its Great for all old VQ build out there. so lets see. a 2 h build using, 4P(head,chest,ring,boots) Head, VQ and blood ritual.
it also seems that Maras and SoJ will be able to roll all the skill effects, so getting thes will greatly reduce mana cost of firebats and zombie Charger, all 2Hs should get it 2 and not only Crossbow. so thats a possible mana cost reduction of 24-30 mana!
2H will get 45+14(head is i63)+20(4p) 79 mana regen
with vision quest that becomes 102 and with spiritual attunement 88 (both 114)
now 2 of the 3 reduction items will give you 16 cost reduction. = 140-16= 124
and with blood ritual 106 mana (or 119 witout skill reduction))
Now this should let you cast bears forever with the right gear.
with 1H then. 45+20+14+14+14 (remeber set will be ilvl63) = 107 mana regen with Zunimassa's Whispers and a CK alone.
now with vision quest it will go up to 139 (with SA and VQ = 150)
and with 3 mana reduction items (mara,soj,mojo) zombie charger will cost about 116 to cast.
and with blood ritual its about 99.
but now we have a CK and some attackspeed so that will bea increased by your aps of 1,5 so about 150 mana a second to channel zombie charger.
looking at this we just got our infinite bear spam right? sure it requires alot of gear and it should, cos its very overpowered.
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anyway i think that the CD reduction from gear will go before tribal rights so it would be (45-10-20)-25%=11,25 seconds. so if you could kill 11 enemies within grave injustive range in the explotions with next of kin, grasp(gets 5%) and circle of life (gets 30%) it could be possible to to kill whole packs within that 11 second time frame.
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looking at the list of new items it seems like some of the items that could roll +max mana (frostburn, hellcat, xephirian, and stone of jordan) this could just be a miss in the planing but i find it rather odd.
also it seems that mojos and sources will lose about 40 from its max damage value and thats seems extremely odd.
i realy hope this is a miss in the data mining.
but i noticed something funny Zombie dogs gets 45 base CD, Tribal rites will reduce that CD by 25% and homocullus will reduce it by 20. its still not enougth to summon dogs and exploding em on any frequent basis, but with the new grasp of the dead, circle of life (30%) and grave injustice i could see a potential Sacrifice build.
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just out of the blue what do you think that the new upgraded witch doctor set will have as its set bonuses?
2P: INT possibly 200-250 (its an ilvl 63 set afterall old one was ilvl 61)
3P: could be mana regen flat 20 or something like 20% more mana regen
4P probably some new gimmiky proc to summon some spirit that will spew raining zombie fishes everywhere.
anyway, my point is one of the new set bonuses on our new set could have mana regen on it if thats the case with the right setup people will have close to unlimited mana again.
This is fair as natalyas set gives DHs almost unlimited disc for things like shadow power and smoke screen.
and nobody know if at this stage some other items will have mana regen on them or if it will be exclusive to voodoo mask, mojo and cermonial knife.
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well the qoute about being able to channel zombie bears for a few seconds could be any thing from 5-15 seconds that they feel is right.
with Blood ritual and a 0,9 weapon and 11 mana regen you will be able to channel you bears for atleast 13 seconds you run out of mana and you will get all that mana back in 13 seconds, so if you just attack with 2-3 waves repossision yourself and then attack again with 2-3 waves and your mana should last for a great amount of time.
if we take 3 mana regen (no max mana) items and VQ and SA you will be able to get your mana back in 7,5 seconds. witch and thats a pretty short time period. sure its much slower then WW barb and critical mass wiz but those are using other mechanics to do so.
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we have yet to see what they are doing to some of our other stuff, they might change all the gain mana back on monster hit to a mini mana regen buff instead. looking at soul harvest, horrify, and sacrifice. the first 2 could instead of giving the low mana they give right now.
So instead of giving horrify giving 27 mana per enemy it could be 2 mana regen per enemy up to 5 same goes for soul harvests swallow your soul could also be 2 mana regen per target up to 5 durration the spells cooldown or the 30 seconds soul harvest buff is up. this would add a great active way to increase your mana to get even more mana out of the new vision quest.
as for sacrifice i could se that the mana rune gets changed to something liek 5 mana regen per dog sacrificed last for 1-2 minutes.
this is not impossible as the current regen you get from thos skills are just plain bad and i dont think anyone have used them aside from soul harvest when they first got the rune while levling.
this could be a possibility and could explain why the new VQ is so low. another thing that i dont really like is that it need an active component to activate a passive abillity. sure the old VQ was the same way, but still slightly different.
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vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
I think you have your cost wrong. I'm not sure whether blood ritual or the weapon cost reduction would be calculated first but best case it would be ((140 * 0.85) - 12) * (0.9 casts per sec) = 96.3 mana/sec unless I missed something?
yes i noted that a while back but dident change it, i just remembered wrong about blood ritual tought it was 30% instead of 15%. but the idea is still valid tho. another thing i saw, is that -cost on bears can only roll on 2h crossbows, and they got 1.1 base attack speed.
you should still be able to channel bears for a long time before running out of mana tho. and your mana would be back up to full in about 9 seconds running around, witch is a great buff considering it took nearly 25 seconds without the use of VQ.
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vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
also remember you will have big bad voodoo - rain dance that will let you channel bears for atleast 20 seconds.
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one big problem with haunt and trying to dot things up is that its hard to aim on the right one and you loose allot by applying haunt to the same target twice as it does not stack (this can easyly happen with the way hit boxes are and the auto target). also its hard to see what mobs are debuffed or not.
i think it should with like a 50% reduction per application.(1st:575% 2nd: 287% 3rd: 144% 4th 72%) this would increase its effictiveness alot while still not getting to OP, and attacking the same target twice is no longer a problem.
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i can agree, that locus swarm is fine considering how many targets it can affect. but haunts damage even if its more spam able is just low.
if we take a look at the new damage of zombie wall and grasp of the dead.
WoZ 800% over 5 sec = 160% a sec and if we include the CD its 32% a sec
and grasp 320% (426%) over 8 sec = 40% (53%) a seconds.
and the fact that they will have the same damage out put as locus swarm and haunt with additional monster slow and blocking, they are vastly supperior.
sure haunt can fly trought walls so you can pre DoT em and locus swarm can spread to a great degree.
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locus swarm and haunt is not even on the list. (tho they have mentioned they have changed the way dots are calculated (everything normalized to 2 APS or 1 aps per tick (2 tics a second)) and that might have been enought,
but they are still very weak compared to the new exploding palm (745% over 9 seconds) and new rend 700%(903%) over 5 seconds AoE, one could argue that locus swarm can damage more mobs but 360%(468%) over 8 seconds is just LOW compared to rend and palm. not to mention Haunt 575% over 12! seconds single target. thats just retarded
Huant: 48% a sec
locus swarm: 45%(58,5%) a sec
Rend: 140%(180%) a sec
exploding palm: 82% a sec + an explotion of 30% of targets life to everything around it (probably caped)
and i tought WD was the DoT class so if they dont tweak teh numbers of haunt and locus swarm im out of build options other then channeling bears for 7 seconds and wait 12 seconds to get my mana back i guess.
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myself im probably going to run something like this ( http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#geYUhT!afc!ZccZcc ) after the patch (if they break pets CC proc rate) should be a fun way to play.
im baffled at the zombie charger changes no one will still not use any other rune other then explosive beast and bears unless they change the animation drastically. or have the cost reduced while using some of the runes.
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and here is a picture: http://i.imgur.com/xYdSi.jpg
without VQ, rain dance i got up to 127 mana regen while spamming spirit barrage.
Edit: did some calculations with the new mechanics and the possible max (in my gear) after the patch is somewhere around 834, its not practical just a maximum.
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you need to take into concideration that you need to cast support spells like grasp, zombie wall, soul harvest or mass confusion, once in a while. and that will let you regen some mana, and you will also have to move out of danger from time to time
moving will give you atleast 50-150 mana back depending on your gear.
also you will not need most of the stuff if you drop BBV - rain dance. this is where you will get the infinite mana to spam bears for atleast 20 seconds. and that should kill most stuff within that time period.
spirit walk honed guest will give you back alot of mana also.
another thing the new ruse of essence giving you 5 mana per sec per cast for 10 seconds could also be enought to bring mana back, especialy with haunts mana back glyph.
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it also seems that Maras and SoJ will be able to roll all the skill effects, so getting thes will greatly reduce mana cost of firebats and zombie Charger, all 2Hs should get it 2 and not only Crossbow. so thats a possible mana cost reduction of 24-30 mana!
2H will get 45+14(head is i63)+20(4p) 79 mana regen
with vision quest that becomes 102 and with spiritual attunement 88 (both 114)
now 2 of the 3 reduction items will give you 16 cost reduction. = 140-16= 124
and with blood ritual 106 mana (or 119 witout skill reduction))
Now this should let you cast bears forever with the right gear.
with 1H then. 45+20+14+14+14 (remeber set will be ilvl63) = 107 mana regen with Zunimassa's Whispers and a CK alone.
now with vision quest it will go up to 139 (with SA and VQ = 150)
and with 3 mana reduction items (mara,soj,mojo) zombie charger will cost about 116 to cast.
and with blood ritual its about 99.
but now we have a CK and some attackspeed so that will bea increased by your aps of 1,5 so about 150 mana a second to channel zombie charger.
looking at this we just got our infinite bear spam right? sure it requires alot of gear and it should, cos its very overpowered.
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anyway i think that the CD reduction from gear will go before tribal rights so it would be (45-10-20)-25%=11,25 seconds. so if you could kill 11 enemies within grave injustive range in the explotions with next of kin, grasp(gets 5%) and circle of life (gets 30%) it could be possible to to kill whole packs within that 11 second time frame.
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also it seems that mojos and sources will lose about 40 from its max damage value and thats seems extremely odd.
i realy hope this is a miss in the data mining.
but i noticed something funny Zombie dogs gets 45 base CD, Tribal rites will reduce that CD by 25% and homocullus will reduce it by 20. its still not enougth to summon dogs and exploding em on any frequent basis, but with the new grasp of the dead, circle of life (30%) and grave injustice i could see a potential Sacrifice build.
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jars gets buffed alot but nothing on locus swarm and haunt. and a minimal damage buff to spirit barrage.
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2P: INT possibly 200-250 (its an ilvl 63 set afterall old one was ilvl 61)
3P: could be mana regen flat 20 or something like 20% more mana regen
4P probably some new gimmiky proc to summon some spirit that will spew raining zombie fishes everywhere.
anyway, my point is one of the new set bonuses on our new set could have mana regen on it if thats the case with the right setup people will have close to unlimited mana again.
This is fair as natalyas set gives DHs almost unlimited disc for things like shadow power and smoke screen.
and nobody know if at this stage some other items will have mana regen on them or if it will be exclusive to voodoo mask, mojo and cermonial knife.
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with Blood ritual and a 0,9 weapon and 11 mana regen you will be able to channel you bears for atleast 13 seconds you run out of mana and you will get all that mana back in 13 seconds, so if you just attack with 2-3 waves repossision yourself and then attack again with 2-3 waves and your mana should last for a great amount of time.
if we take 3 mana regen (no max mana) items and VQ and SA you will be able to get your mana back in 7,5 seconds. witch and thats a pretty short time period. sure its much slower then WW barb and critical mass wiz but those are using other mechanics to do so.
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So instead of giving horrify giving 27 mana per enemy it could be 2 mana regen per enemy up to 5 same goes for soul harvests swallow your soul could also be 2 mana regen per target up to 5 durration the spells cooldown or the 30 seconds soul harvest buff is up. this would add a great active way to increase your mana to get even more mana out of the new vision quest.
as for sacrifice i could se that the mana rune gets changed to something liek 5 mana regen per dog sacrificed last for 1-2 minutes.
this is not impossible as the current regen you get from thos skills are just plain bad and i dont think anyone have used them aside from soul harvest when they first got the rune while levling.
this could be a possibility and could explain why the new VQ is so low. another thing that i dont really like is that it need an active component to activate a passive abillity. sure the old VQ was the same way, but still slightly different.
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yes i noted that a while back but dident change it, i just remembered wrong about blood ritual tought it was 30% instead of 15%. but the idea is still valid tho. another thing i saw, is that -cost on bears can only roll on 2h crossbows, and they got 1.1 base attack speed.
you should still be able to channel bears for a long time before running out of mana tho. and your mana would be back up to full in about 9 seconds running around, witch is a great buff considering it took nearly 25 seconds without the use of VQ.
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read my first post in this thread: http://www.diablofan...11#entry1017611
if you dont wanna thread jump you will need.
vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
also remember you will have big bad voodoo - rain dance that will let you channel bears for atleast 20 seconds.
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