Also, Phrozen, a virus is NOT a living thing. All it is is genetic information. There's nothing living about it.
Just like I said, it depends on how you define living. Textbook answer is that viruses are, indeed, not alive, as they are indeed nothing more than a capsule with their own genetic material contained within.
Since "life" is a pretty hard thing to define however, you may consider the genetic material in itself to be life (which would indeed make viruses living). It's all a matter of classification. Either way, it doesn't change what a virus is.
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LOL you all crack me up, look around you, look at the evidence that exists on this planet... to give you a head start these are good topics to look at yourself
Are you lazy or just incompetent? If all you can say is "do a little research" then I ain't going to lift a finger.
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Now that's a philosophical debate. We aren't always certain of what to classify as life here on Earth. For example, sometimes a virus is classified as living, sometimes not. Thus we have an even vaguer understanding of what to classify as life when it comes to other lifeforms.
Is a robot living? We don't know. Some say it probably would be, some say it never will be. And I know at least one who claimed cars were alive. And can life exist in any way, shape and form? Who knows?
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It's considered special becasue that's how all life on Earth is structured.
There's been some theorizing that silicon could work similarly, but it's just a hypothesis. And water is used by all life as well, but it's not specifically built from it, however life utilizes it for transporting needs, heat regulation and so forth.
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I watched the Even Horizon yesterday. Really crappy movie, but the one thing I did point out was that we have no idea what things may look like out there when seen up close. I wouldn't be surprised if life out there was carbon-based as well, but I woulnd't be surprised if it wasn't either. At this point in time, there's just no way to know.
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That was the question that I always wanted to discuss about: What was BEFORE the Big Bang? When you think about those things, they are really mind-blowing!
Tehcnically speaking, there was nothing before the Big Bang, because time and space didn't exist prior to the Big Bang.
Quote from "interception" »
1. They probably do
2. They probably don't call themselves aliens -.-
Wouldn't it be a pretty freak happestance if they did call themselves aliens though?
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Within the "near" future, we are probably going to see bioengineering changing the climate of Mars. I read that it is going to be done in 3 steps:
1. Fill the atmosphere with greenhouse gases. This will stabilize the climate.
2. Plant seeds to produce oxygen and a living environment.
3. Introducing animals (or not), and begin creating a place that modern humans wants to move to.
There's only one problem with that, and that is that Mars has a significantly weaker gravitational pull than Earth, and is thus unable to maintain an an atmosphere as thick as ours. And unless you have some extra mass to spare and give to Mars (:rolleyes:), there's not a whole lot to do about that.
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They've found micro-organism fossils in rocks from Mars. I only know of at least one.
No, they've found traces of chemical compounds which life is known to produce on Earth. It's indirect evidence of life, but no fossilized life has been found.
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I meant that a particle can't accelerate itself, it is accelerated by the forces of nature, like gravity or magnetism. If you leave a rock in complete vacuum, without anything else in the universe, then it would not move. A photon would though, that is what I was trying to say. Ok, it would not move before something else pulls it in one direction, but from there on it would accelerate to lightspeed, the strength of the force that pulls it wouldn't matter.
Motion is relative, I don't know enough about relativity to actually know if you can clam that anything can move if it is the only thing in space. The problem is that you can only observe motion relative to something else. If everything in the universe was just one photon, you wouldn't really be speaking of motion. But that's a bit off-topic
Quote from "emilemil1" »
It is not science yet, just theories, but scientist knows that there is energy in vacuum.
I'd be careful about saying we know things unless it's a proven theory.
Quote from "emilemil1" »
When a photon travels through matter, it loses speed because of the resistance. It is pretty much the same with vacuum. If the vacuum energies are weaker, then the resistance is lower and the photons will travel faster.
A photon doesn't accelerate. Photons cannot travel slower than the speed of light, because an object with no mass must travel at the speed of light. A photon loses apparent speed because it is absorbed and re-emitted when travelling through matter. However the actual speed is constant.
This is one of the 4 most possible scenarios regarding the future of the world.
But still a hypothesis that relies on Dark Energy having specific characteristics. And we certainly don't know how Dark Energy works yet, or if it even exists.
Quote from "Murderface" »
You make Everest sound insignificant, southern africa gets its rain from the indian/atlantic, thats why there are still jungles down there, but northern africa got it from a current that arced over asia from the atlantic. I saw this on discoverey, so unless you have some sort of ancient air current map, or a more credible source explaining how the sahara was formed then then I can't believe you (and dont try to discredit television as a medium for learning).
I originally read it in a Swedish magazine, but I found a source in english
The green Sahara episodes correspond with the changing direction of the earth's rotational axis that regulates the solar energy in the tropical Atlantic Ocean. Periods of maximum solar energy increased the moisture production while pushing the African monsoon further north and increasing precipitation in the Sahara.
Thus pointing out that we are obviously at the end of two different theories here.
Quote from "Thundarius" »
The economical interests are fairly too high.Microprocessors are a result of Roswell debris...
Since our government has expressed any kind of interest in UFO's (project bluebook) we have "invented" (or recovered) knowledge/ hardware that unveiled up new technology to get us where we are today. ie microprocessors, lasers, microwaves, fiber optics, jet engines, the material on stealth bombers which absorbs radar signals. and much much more... Doesn't this almost seem logical to you?
Or, you learn how these thigns work, plus the history behind it, and realize that it's not some government conspiracy like in the movies, but a logical development cycle. Please, humanity invented the transistor on their own, as well as lasers, jet enginges and similar. Absense of proof isn't proof.
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I saw a tv program once, it was about the earth with no humans. It described what would happen to our buildings, cars, bridges and everything we've built. If our civilization disappears right now, in 5000 years a future civilization wouldn't find anything that proves that we existed.
If you think about it, there could have been many civilizations 8000 years ago, and we'll never know that.
Now that's taking tv-dramatizations too literally.
Ancient Egypt was founded around 5 000 years ago, and prehistoric tools from the stone age and similar have been found from before then. If a stone tool can survive 8000 years, then whatever an advanced civilization left behind must be able to survive a couple of thousand years as well.
Quote from "Jamoose" »
Well, if an extremely hot wave turns everything into ashes, after 1000 years the place will change because of wind / rain / etc... plants will grow, animals will start living in the area, it turns into wilderness...
Are you suggesting the entire civilization was vaporized in a heat-wave? That'd definately screw up eco-systems worldwide with the amount of collateral damage you'd get if you try to destroy a civilization which is supposed to have been everywhere, since the glass undergorund is supposedly found everywhere.
Quote from "Jamoose" »
I think that we don't find "buried spacecrafts" because maybe those ancient civilizations advanced technologically in a different way than we did... If you are familiar with the butterfly effect, think about it that way... their whole "humanity" might have been affected by different things than ours did, therefore leading to different ways of thinking / inventions / and ways of life...
It's still have to be based on matter, and can thus obviously still be found.
Quote from "Jamoose" »
I read in that link posted above about some Russian scientists that found ruins of an ancient culture somewhere in Pakistan. the people were cremated alive, they found skeletons lying in the streets of this town, untouched... no animals ate the bodies, or no bacteria consumed the bodies...
The logical explanation for this is that some kind of an atomic weapon or any other weapon that its effect is a high temperature degree, and radiation that will prevent life from continuing in these areas for years, maybe a weapon type that our technology did not discover, not because its too advanced for us, but because of things that happened in our history that prevented it from being found or invented... butterfly effect again.
Although it would of course be a strange scenario to have dead bodies lying everywhere untouched in the streets, it's still a long shot to jump from that to a hyper-technological civilization in the Earth's past.
Quote from "Murderface" »
We weren't brought here by aliens, we evolved this way because of Mount Everest. Long ago Africa was a jungle from coast to coast and chimpanzees reigned as the dominant species, but when mount Everest grew larger it started to cut off the precipitation flowing into Africa, this caused the jungles to recede, leaving the plain lands we see today, as this happened the chimpanzees were slowly forced to live on the plains. The tall grass made us stand upright so we could spot incoming predators, and the lack of vegetation caused us to become omnivorous, the added protein in our diets caused our brains to grow. Just wanted to clear that up...
Mount Everest? No way one single mountant thousands of miles from the African continent could ever affect the entire continent's weather. Especially since rain would come in from the atlantic and indian ocean mainly, not mainland asia.
Quote from "Ranim" »
So if there was a pole shift, maybe there are wreckages and artifacts on the South Pole? I don't think the poles would exactly shift so dramatically, but you have to consider that we have no first hand data on such an event, save for a few fossils.
Polar shifts can occur, however if memory serves the last one is expected to have happened around 20,000 years ago. Or was it 20,000 years from now? Can't remember.
Quote from "emilemil1" »
A light photon has its "default" speed at lightspeed. A particle has its "default" speed at 0. A particle can accelerate to the point when it reaches lightspeed, the forces that accelerates the particle can not accelerate it more than that, and if it something that we don't know of would accelerate more, it would shatter the particles into subparticles and finaly into energy, or photons. A photon can never accelerate beyond lightspeed because there is nothing that can accelerate it. In theory, it would be able to travel at infinite speeds if it didn't meet the resistance of vacuum energy.
Not quite. A particle's default speed isn't zero, and you definately cannot accelerate matter to light-speed. You can get very close, but the required energy to accelerate matter increases exponentially as you approach light speed.
About that vacuum energy thing, I've never even heard of it.
Quote from "emilemil1" »
And when space is stretching faster, then the vacuum energies power is changed and the photons will move faster to maintain its constant value. The constant value is the value of anti-gravity and can not be experienced any different that it already is.
Say what?
Quote from "emilemil1" »
Now we have entered the second part of the quote. There you have it. The vacuum is moving faster than light. But not the matter, never the matter. If the anti-gravitational energies would become so powerful that they exceed gravity and accelerates subparticles away from eachother, then everything in the galaxy, except from black holes, would be turned into photons immediately. The world would not consist of mass anymore, mass is matter and is a object created and controled by gravity. The world would consist of vacuum energy (which equals mass for gravity), it would consist of anti-matter which works the opposite way of gravity.
That doesn't make any sense at all. The expansion of space doesn't remove the gravitational force between matter, and it certainly won't turn matter into photons.
Quote from "emilemil1" »
So if we can find a way to make gravity stronger than anti-gravity, then everything in the universe would move back together, then if we could turn everything back to normal once we have got the alien planet close enough, then we would have successfully found a easier way of transportation. But yeah, the increased gravity would probably destroy us all And we would still not be able to move faster than light because the constant will allways remain the same.
Yeah. And causing the universe to collapse instead of expanding seems like the easiest approach to travelling to other planets.
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So, there were ancient civilizations that were more technologically advanced than we think or know... These civilizations were wiped out by strange heat waves which can be created only by a volcano eruption, a meteor crash, and an atom bomb. When there are no volcanoes in the area, and no signs of a meteor crash site, then scientists have only one option and its that there was some kind of an atom bomb explosion or a different kind of weapon that wiped out all those empires like Atlantis, Indian, Pakistani, middle eastern empires...
Just think about it for a moment though. A civilization that existed 8,000 years ago, suddenly disappeared, and the only thing left are glass sheets? No ruins whatsoever? No buried spacecraft of the past somewhere undergorund?
Sure there are strange things in our world. But perhaps we should not jump to the most extreme of conclusions as fast as we can.
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There is a paper thin sheet of the glass that is made from a nuclear explosion (I think it's called Trinitium) spread across Europe, the Mideast, Northern Africa and India, deep under the soil simultaniously at a layer point in all excavated areas dating to at least 6,000 years old. I don't even know if there is a link that talks about it, it's been years since I learned about it.
Not very likely. There's a sheet of glass in Africa that is about 6,000 years old I think which can be created by nuclear explosions. However, a meteor can also create the same effect. All requires is some masive heat.
You'll definately have to dig up a link if you want us to buy that it exists everywhere in the world.
Quote from "Jamoose" »
If you were a super technological advanced living being, and you discovered this planet, after a few minutes you would discover the most secret bases on earth, like area 51 and the likes. So, you go and visit those places because you know that the most powerful people on this planet are there. Why would you just go to the streets of some big city and get pwned by 1000000000 people trying to take a photo of you or something...
Or better yet: Anyone ever think that perhaps they haven't dared entering our atmosphere? perhaps oxygen is toxic to them, or they do not know what kind of microbial life we have that may affect them upon contact.
I mean, if we were to explore other worlds, we'd definately make sure the atmosphere was safe for humans before we landed people
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The government is pretty good at covering up what it wants to, even many of the so called leaks you hear about are intentional planted information. Take the alleged power plant networks being compromised or the new story on the US jet fighter project being hacked. I think those stories are a load of bull, they are more likely ruses, a big hackers carrot if you will, to get the wrong people to try and hack into the networks for the purpose of tracking their efforts. If those events really happened, they would not make the news. I can tell you with certainty the government operates more discretely than that. In my current job I have to comply the government's network standard's (STIG's) as laid down by DISA for the DoD and answer to government bodies and have been audited by the OIG.
Which isn't proof. You can't say someone is good at covering stuff up unless they reveal they actually ahve covered something up, because otherwise we don't know there is a cover up.
Meaning, until they actually say they have hid aliens, we can't know that they are actualyl hiding aliens. If they are good at covering up stuff that is.
Quote from "VegasRage" »
I don't live all too far from Area 51, and many people in Vegas unofficially work at undisclosed locations, I know a number of people who have military security clearance and cannot tell me what they do. Many of them have told me "there are some things the public are better off not knowing" with respect to government secrets. Many of them do believe we are not alone, of course I never get any elaboration on what they might know.
Or they think it's good the public doesn't know the US is researching anti-matter bombs or something to that effect. Doesn't mean they've got aliens in there just because their employees are mysterious about it.
Quote from "ExoditeTyr" »
There is nothing to suggest that life needs DNA/RNA or even something similar in structure, it's just that all life as we know it is based off of it. Same applies to the need for water, and other certain elements, precise temperatures, pressures, light, etc... We simply don't know what varied forms of life are possible, especially if the replicator theories for abiogenesis are true. By having a replicator capable of small changes of form (mutations) in a suitable environment, it's theoretically possible to have life (organized complexity) adapt from its very beginnings to very different conditions.
True enough, but if you look at the human body, we have a lot of the more light elements in us: Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, kalium, calcium, iron, etc. If we're talking about complex life, it probably needs a lot of different elements as well to regulate different body functions.
Now bacteria is another things, but how fun is it to find bacteria when you could find something better?
Quote from "sanctus" »
Think of how old the Earth is. Think of how many millions of years it took for us to get to where we are today. Where are we today? We can't travel beyond our own star system. We won't be able to for a very long time.
But that doesn't mean someone elsewhere in the Universe can't.
Quote from "sanctus" »
Beyond that, the stars we see in the sky are many many many many light years away. If there is a species out there older than ours to be able to advance their civilization to space travel, it would probably take them a very long time to reach Earth, much less FIND it among the sea of stars.
Or, they've invented a form of superluminal travel (wormsholes etc.)
Quote from "sanctus" »
In the millions of years this planet has been here, we've recovered all sorts of fossils of creatures long since extinct. Nope, no alien fossils yet. So it's pretty safe to say that today there is no believable physical evidence that alien life has touched down on Earth. In millions of years. Or is it billions?
or we've just been unlucky. Not a whole lot of the Earth's crust has been serached, and not very much is saved through the eons by Mother Nature.
Quote from "sanctus" »
Using that logic, it could be another million years before another civilization finds us, if one exists at all. I don't plan on living a million years or more. Do you? Do your children? Do your children's children? Do your children's children's children? Hmm. In the entire birth and death of our planet (I say death because we are prone to destroying ourselves before we propogate in space), I doubt we will see other intelligent life. The odds are against us.
And that doesn't make any sense at all. There's no logical reason in here why they can't appear on our doorstep tonight.
Quote from "sanctus" »
It's a silly topic. Although interesting, if you follow proper logic (and math, I could use math if you want me to) it will inevitably lead you to what we're already sure of. We're absolutely 100% sure that we don't know if alien life exists or not. We'll never know for certain.
Until we find it of course
Quote from name="Mr. Grieves" »
I fully believe that this generation of humans may be the first to create technology extending life to unbelievable lengths of time! The only natural reason we die is because our organs fail, so if we can keep our organs healthy or replace them with healthy ones, we won't die or age, really. And if we can completely map the brain, we may be able to transfer our very consciousness to a different body.
So with that in mind, we may all live long enough to make alien contact.
It's a whole lot more complicated than just replacing your organs. There are a host of body functions you need to work around, especially the programmed cell-death that all cells have except for two: stem cells and cancer cells.
Dying is, from an evolutionary view, much more profitable than eternal life, the main reason being the damage a being suffers from too long life in the form of cell mutations. Eternal life is probably quite far off yet.
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Since "life" is a pretty hard thing to define however, you may consider the genetic material in itself to be life (which would indeed make viruses living). It's all a matter of classification. Either way, it doesn't change what a virus is.
The burden of proof is on you, not us.
Is a robot living? We don't know. Some say it probably would be, some say it never will be. And I know at least one who claimed cars were alive. And can life exist in any way, shape and form? Who knows?
There's been some theorizing that silicon could work similarly, but it's just a hypothesis. And water is used by all life as well, but it's not specifically built from it, however life utilizes it for transporting needs, heat regulation and so forth.
I watched the Even Horizon yesterday. Really crappy movie, but the one thing I did point out was that we have no idea what things may look like out there when seen up close. I wouldn't be surprised if life out there was carbon-based as well, but I woulnd't be surprised if it wasn't either. At this point in time, there's just no way to know.
Wouldn't it be a pretty freak happestance if they did call themselves aliens though?
I'd be careful about saying we know things unless it's a proven theory.
A photon doesn't accelerate. Photons cannot travel slower than the speed of light, because an object with no mass must travel at the speed of light. A photon loses apparent speed because it is absorbed and re-emitted when travelling through matter. However the actual speed is constant.
But still a hypothesis that relies on Dark Energy having specific characteristics. And we certainly don't know how Dark Energy works yet, or if it even exists.
I originally read it in a Swedish magazine, but I found a source in english
Thus pointing out that we are obviously at the end of two different theories here.
Or, you learn how these thigns work, plus the history behind it, and realize that it's not some government conspiracy like in the movies, but a logical development cycle. Please, humanity invented the transistor on their own, as well as lasers, jet enginges and similar. Absense of proof isn't proof.
Ancient Egypt was founded around 5 000 years ago, and prehistoric tools from the stone age and similar have been found from before then. If a stone tool can survive 8000 years, then whatever an advanced civilization left behind must be able to survive a couple of thousand years as well.
Are you suggesting the entire civilization was vaporized in a heat-wave? That'd definately screw up eco-systems worldwide with the amount of collateral damage you'd get if you try to destroy a civilization which is supposed to have been everywhere, since the glass undergorund is supposedly found everywhere.
It's still have to be based on matter, and can thus obviously still be found.
Life is quite capable of existing in high-radioation environments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans
Although it would of course be a strange scenario to have dead bodies lying everywhere untouched in the streets, it's still a long shot to jump from that to a hyper-technological civilization in the Earth's past.
Mount Everest? No way one single mountant thousands of miles from the African continent could ever affect the entire continent's weather. Especially since rain would come in from the atlantic and indian ocean mainly, not mainland asia.
Polar shifts can occur, however if memory serves the last one is expected to have happened around 20,000 years ago. Or was it 20,000 years from now? Can't remember.
Not quite. A particle's default speed isn't zero, and you definately cannot accelerate matter to light-speed. You can get very close, but the required energy to accelerate matter increases exponentially as you approach light speed.
About that vacuum energy thing, I've never even heard of it.
Say what?
That doesn't make any sense at all. The expansion of space doesn't remove the gravitational force between matter, and it certainly won't turn matter into photons.
Yeah. And causing the universe to collapse instead of expanding seems like the easiest approach to travelling to other planets.
Sure there are strange things in our world. But perhaps we should not jump to the most extreme of conclusions as fast as we can.
You'll definately have to dig up a link if you want us to buy that it exists everywhere in the world.
Or better yet: Anyone ever think that perhaps they haven't dared entering our atmosphere? perhaps oxygen is toxic to them, or they do not know what kind of microbial life we have that may affect them upon contact.
I mean, if we were to explore other worlds, we'd definately make sure the atmosphere was safe for humans before we landed people
Meaning, until they actually say they have hid aliens, we can't know that they are actualyl hiding aliens. If they are good at covering up stuff that is.
Or they think it's good the public doesn't know the US is researching anti-matter bombs or something to that effect. Doesn't mean they've got aliens in there just because their employees are mysterious about it.
True enough, but if you look at the human body, we have a lot of the more light elements in us: Hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, kalium, calcium, iron, etc. If we're talking about complex life, it probably needs a lot of different elements as well to regulate different body functions.
Now bacteria is another things, but how fun is it to find bacteria when you could find something better?
But that doesn't mean someone elsewhere in the Universe can't.
Or, they've invented a form of superluminal travel (wormsholes etc.)
or we've just been unlucky. Not a whole lot of the Earth's crust has been serached, and not very much is saved through the eons by Mother Nature.
And that doesn't make any sense at all. There's no logical reason in here why they can't appear on our doorstep tonight.
Until we find it of course
It's a whole lot more complicated than just replacing your organs. There are a host of body functions you need to work around, especially the programmed cell-death that all cells have except for two: stem cells and cancer cells.
Dying is, from an evolutionary view, much more profitable than eternal life, the main reason being the damage a being suffers from too long life in the form of cell mutations. Eternal life is probably quite far off yet.