Many people here might have played diablo2, but I guess not many people really know pvp in D2 and how good the pvp was in D2.
My first pvp experience in D2:
My first HC paladin enters a sewers exp game, I join group, go into sewers, I get insta nuked by a lvl 95 sorc that went hostile while I was entering.
My second "pvp" experience:
I lvl my first sorc to lvl 30ish and wanna start joining Baal runs, I start nuking when I see all jump to town or quit the game. ??? Apparently my sorc is a pker it seems as I'm using Hydras to kill monster, and that spell can be used to pk... sigh...
My third, fourth, fifth... eightyninth.. pvp experience:
I'm in a XXXX game, 7 of us are doing what we are supposed to be doing, the 8th starts spamming a skill that can pk, most of us tp to town or leave the game, the 8th goes hostile and sometimes gets someone killed.
Hostile mechanic thrown out of the game = Best decision ever
Do I mind there being an arena = No
Would I like to be able to duel for fun with my HC char 1 on 1 = Yes
Will I spend 95%+ of my time killing monsters = Yes
Do I think that 95%+ of Blizzard focus should be about the PvM aspect of the game = Yes
Is my way to play D3 the right and only true way to play it = No ofc not you silly trolls... play the way you like, if you can't in this game there are MANY others
Well lets start here:
For your first encounter, that happens. If the sorceress killed you by going to town and hostiling and going back down after you, you had plenty of time to react and go to town.
For the rest of your encounters, they were all due to hacks and glitches which is Blizzard's fault. So your experience is not bad because of the mechanic, it is bad because Blizzard failed to make a secure game.
Yes hostility can be used to grief, yes it can ruin your PvM experience, however I rarely see anyone complaining about that. They all bring up TPPK or other hacks and cry about those like it is hostilities problem, it isn't it is Blizzard not caring about Diablo.
Love that. Just fly in here and crack that whip "HEY YOU GET BACK TO THE TOPIC!".
Anywho, I believe much of the conflict here is gone and the conversation has drifted to the new thread, can we get this 1 closed? We go through threads like toilet paper in this section.
I went against the type of control that was suggested for Arena because of Blizzards desire to stay away from eSport-related features. I explained myself when I posted as such as well, citing reasons behind my argument.
I went against dueling in public games because they create more negatives then positives. I explained why using the information we have to us as well as past experience with similar games.
I didn't actually ignore trading and lore adding downtime. In fact, I actually explained why they are expected parts of the game that Blizzard has intentionally designed around.
So it seems one again you fail to actually READ and post without actually listening to what I've posted. If you did read what I've posted then how did you get this perception of what I have stated?
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
Thanks for the support buddy! You can be my vice pres.
I do not plan on ever becoming or associating more than necessary with someone like that so I will have to decline that offer and no I never gave support to such as you. Such actions and attitudes are what make the internet such a cesspool of hate and ignorance.
Ah it is alright, if you wanted a vacation you just had to ask buddy. You're good for the next 2 weeks. Cya then!
No, not at all. I still believe PvP should be an option in both game types, or at the very least a WP to the arena in game. His idea is ok, not the greatest but it is a means to an end.
But, its not his idea.. I've been stating THAT EXACT SAME THING, multiple times in the thread. It seems you either didn't read my posts or ignored my statements due to some predetermined hatred towards me our of some perceived notion that I hate PvP.
Funny thing about that is that I've been the one trying to create compromises between the PvP and PvM communities. I've been suggesting things like a Arena type that allows players to fight without rules, open dueling in private only games, etc. Yet, I'm an enemy of PvP? Sorry, but no. What I am against is forcing PvP on PvM players. Period.
Well, you went against any player controlled options in the arena, you went against any dueling in public games, you ignored fact trading and lore stopping takes more time then dueling, you did a lot more. It is ok though, I forgive you. Koda saved the day.
If I can't teach you the correct way to think, then you can at least learn what to aspire to be.
You're way of thinking is neither correct nor something to aspire to. You constantly distort or ignore facts. Appear to never read anything and simply wish to create conflict with someone you perceive as being against your ill-defined agenda. If I wanted to get into politics I suppose that would be the way to go.
Thanks for the support buddy! You can be my vice pres.
Woah woah woah, im done with you dude. Moving on to bigger better fish. People who make real contributions like Koda over there.
You failed to answer the question. Why is it suddenly a good suggestion when you've been complaining about it for the past few days? Realize you were wrong finally?
No, not at all. I still believe PvP should be an option in both game types, or at the very least a WP to the arena in game. His idea is ok, not the greatest but it is a means to an end.
Great post. Very insightful and intelligent presentation. Why couldn't anyone else do that? However I still feel it should be an option in both, private at the very least.
So, he repeats my suggestion and it is somehow 'insightful'? No offence to Kodachii of course, but I've stated a few times now that dueling in private games is the way to go. I've also explained why using the same reasoning pretty much. So, I am a little curious if you actually even read my posts.... or.... what?
Woah woah woah, im done with you dude. Moving on to bigger better fish. People who make real contributions like Koda over there.
Well at least someone had respect in our debacle ha. Either way, I am through arguing with you. You arn't learning anything, and you sure arn't proving anything to me.
I for one have learned quite a bit from you Adon. None it particularly flattering or pertinent to the topic.
If I can't teach you the correct way to think, then you can at least learn what to aspire to be.
Enabling duels or hostility in private games (only) may be the *best* solution I've heard so far. You only play with your friends/family in private games so you know what you're getting into and if someone is a douchebag what are they doing on your friend's list in your private game.
Great post. Very insightful and intelligent presentation. Why couldn't anyone else do that? However I still feel it should be an option in both, private at the very least.
Not really. The threads slow down because they are tired of you spewing the same BS every post. Either way, you don't want PvP even MUTUAL PvP in your games, and I don't want a PvM only game with no options. It is still incorrect design and flawed to force me to make 3 games to do what I want to do, you will see. BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?
I really wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. How many times do I have to say this? "I am looking forward to PvP in Diablo 3" Did you even read the post I made before the one I replied to? I gave good explanations as to why YOU ARE WRONG. The only reason I've had to repeat myself is that you seem to refuse to actually READ. Diablo 3 isn't a PvM only game with no options. Diablo 3 will have a full PvP system in the form of Arena.
Diablo 3 also has private and public games, meaning they could easily add duels to private games giving you the options you want. However, no..you must complain more. Why do you NEED duels in private games? You already said you didn't want to play with other players. Seems like private games with your friends would be perfect for you.
As to this..."BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?"...that statement alone pretty much kills all credibility you have. Period. How am I supposed to take anything you say from now on with any kind of respect when you say stuff like that?
Well at least someone had respect in our debacle ha.
Either way, I am through arguing with you. You arn't learning anything, and you sure arn't proving anything to me.
There will be dueling in arenas, I have no doubt about it. Its a simple thing to add and no reason not to do it. There will never be a hostile feature for all the reasons that have been mentioned. People need to disregard Adon, he is pretty much either trolling or ignorant in all of his posts. He knows that the vast majority of people here view D3 as a PvM game with side PvP but he just likes to stir things up.
Yup. Arenas are exactly where duels would be appropriate. However, I am not opposed to private game open duels. This is mostly because it'd be a nice way to support those crazy people that play hardcore and want to duel to the death. If they were to add such an option to the Arena PvP though, I suppose I'd see little reason for private dueling as well.
As for Adon, I am mostly posting to explain why his viewpoints are wrong for the new people that enter the discussion later. I hope by explaining why things are the way they are and why PvP features in PvM gameplay are a bad idea, I will be able to stem the flood of identical posts. So far, it seems to work pretty well as the amount of threads complaining about the same things has slowed down. So, I'll continue to post responses unless the thread is closed.
Not really. The threads slow down because they are tired of you spewing the same BS every post. Either way, you don't want PvP even MUTUAL PvP in your games, and I don't want a PvM only game with no options. It is still incorrect design and flawed to force me to make 3 games to do what I want to do, you will see. BTW add me when D3 comes out so I can jerk off in town while you die to monsters ok?
Well first off, ill join public games only if noone else is on so I can get the added experience, I will not play with randoms however. Ill just pass them up and kill everything in their game.
Secondly, if I was to ever play with someone in a public game and they want to duel me, or I want to test out their build I can't. Because apparently it is correct design to force us to make 3 games to do one action. If you are going to make duels in private games only, then fuck it and give me hostility back. Why not go all the way haha. Your theory is flawed like hell. If you are aiming to separate the community, then may as well add the function I talked about before where you search for pvp open games or not.
So in a game you don't want to play with other random people and you're talking about how it separates the community? Um that's pretty flawed reasoning. Also considering what's been said about difficulty and end game, running ahead to kill everything will just see you get killed, but whatever.
If you want to test a build or duel someone... then just pvp. Why is that a difficult concept? You want to test a build? Go fight in an arena. Want to see different builds? Fight in an arena. Use the PvP function of the game to actually PvP seems pretty straightforward. Separating game modes does not separate the community.
What you talk about seems easily covered by what is being given. So you have to make a choice to either pvp or pvm, that's not a difficult thing for some.
Right, his theory does separate the community. No person would ever make a public game other then to do 1 specific quest then if they only get to play portions of the features. Is it that hard of a concept that people like to duel? Is it that hard of a concept that people might like to mess around once in a while? Is it that hard of a concept to see that this feature does less to harm the game and stall it then trading or lore stopping does? Or are you guys just that damn ignorant?
About the game being hard at later difficulties, I won't hold my breath on that, this is Diablo buddy. You are a 1 man army god, the game is completely soloable. If you suck then yea im sure you can't run ahead and kill the game, however I don't see that happening. Nothing other then developer tweaked game videos proves that you will actually die if you go off on your own.
I don't know why I bother haha, you guys that post in this section are so oblivious to the mechanics of Diablo and so oblivious to anything outside of PvM.
PvMing with others doesn't benefit me because they will slow me down.
Then why on earth would you ever need to be able to duel in public games? gg bro
Well first off, ill join public games only if noone else is on so I can get the added experience, I will not play with randoms however. Ill just pass them up and kill everything in their game.
Secondly, if I was to ever play with someone in a public game and they want to duel me, or I want to test out their build I can't. Because apparently it is correct design to force us to make 3 games to do one action. If you are going to make duels in private games only, then fuck it and give me hostility back. Why not go all the way haha. Your theory is flawed like hell. If you are aiming to separate the community, then may as well add the function I talked about before where you search for pvp open games or not.
Right so I should be secluded to only private games, that is fair. Is that not the same exact complaint that many PvM'ers had in Diablo 1 and 2 because of being PK'd? So your solution is to segregate the community. Adding a duel function would and will not ruin the game by any means, at least not anymore then trading or repairing or chatting does. Also by your theory of how Diablo plays, it is a function that will get little play time, much less then trading or PvMing at least, so there is nothing to worry about. Why should we be thrown in the corner because we don't and shouldn't have to make 3 games to complete one simple task when it is only used for what a 5 second duel? Trading takes longer then a duel does haha.
And trading does not involve everyone in the game, only 2 of the 4 tops. Also about your mandatory visits to town, I only went to town in the beta because they forced me too, did I stay there beyond starting next quest...nope. Now lets say I do stay there, because I wanna get all of the lore and everything else but hey you don't want to...guess getting lore and other stuff that hinders the game speed should be put in private games only too right?
You know, I love how you dodge around my questions. Why do you need dueling in public games? If your whole point of having duels is to play with specific friends and duel to test out new equipment you gain while playing with them...aren't private games good enough?
Honestly, since public games in Diablo 3 focus specifically around completing quests or grinding inferno...what's the point? If a duel takes 5 seconds like you say, then there wouldn't even be any point to dueling at all even. Unless of course you were actually duel quite a bit more to actually get accurate information. No, the only use I can see duels in public games is creating a situation where someone goes "Duel me!" and then when the person says no... "Wha.. too chicken, you'll probably lose anyways..". The WHOLE purpose of public games is to do PvM content...this is VERY evident by the way public games work and the separation of PvP into Arenas. Implementing dueling in public games would go against the very design of the game...and for what benefit?
Honestly, it seems like you're grasping at straws trying to justify a PvP feature that doesn't belong. How would public game duels benefit the OVERALL community? The few that want duels vs the majority that want to PvM...how do you justify adding a feature that goes completely contrary to the game's design? Stop dodging around the question and answer it...how would it benefit everyone?... My answer?... I won't.
Nothing ever benefits everyone. Trading does not benefit me in game because ill use the AH. Chatting doesn't benefit me because I could care less what randoms have to say. PvMing with others doesn't benefit me because they will slow me down.
Everything you say to remove PvP from public games can be used to remove every feature in the game. Why don't you now answer the question, why the hell should I have to make 3 games to do such a simple task that bothers people even less then a trade or a lore stop? Instead of dodging the question because you simply have no good answer.
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For your first encounter, that happens. If the sorceress killed you by going to town and hostiling and going back down after you, you had plenty of time to react and go to town.
For the rest of your encounters, they were all due to hacks and glitches which is Blizzard's fault. So your experience is not bad because of the mechanic, it is bad because Blizzard failed to make a secure game.
Yes hostility can be used to grief, yes it can ruin your PvM experience, however I rarely see anyone complaining about that. They all bring up TPPK or other hacks and cry about those like it is hostilities problem, it isn't it is Blizzard not caring about Diablo.
Anywho, I believe much of the conflict here is gone and the conversation has drifted to the new thread, can we get this 1 closed? We go through threads like toilet paper in this section.
Well in the end, I still feel you are wrong or not seeing full picture relating to the arena customization. Not seeing full picture and inevitable addition of public dueling. Also good job on the trading, I must of missed that in your 90 essays you wrote me.
Either way, I am through arguing with you. You arn't learning anything, and you sure arn't proving anything to me.
About the game being hard at later difficulties, I won't hold my breath on that, this is Diablo buddy. You are a 1 man army god, the game is completely soloable. If you suck then yea im sure you can't run ahead and kill the game, however I don't see that happening. Nothing other then developer tweaked game videos proves that you will actually die if you go off on your own.
I don't know why I bother haha, you guys that post in this section are so oblivious to the mechanics of Diablo and so oblivious to anything outside of PvM.
Secondly, if I was to ever play with someone in a public game and they want to duel me, or I want to test out their build I can't. Because apparently it is correct design to force us to make 3 games to do one action. If you are going to make duels in private games only, then fuck it and give me hostility back. Why not go all the way haha. Your theory is flawed like hell. If you are aiming to separate the community, then may as well add the function I talked about before where you search for pvp open games or not.
Everything you say to remove PvP from public games can be used to remove every feature in the game. Why don't you now answer the question, why the hell should I have to make 3 games to do such a simple task that bothers people even less then a trade or a lore stop? Instead of dodging the question because you simply have no good answer.