Ha ok, so you are boasting that a game primarily developed for its robust and terrific PvM has its community matched by an inferior shallow mechanic right?
Now imagine if that shallow inferior mechanic was given a little bit more depth, a little more opening toward new players, a little more exposure...you think your robust PvM that is only evenly matched with the shallow inferior mechanic will still compete when it is also a robust mechanic?
The correct answer is, who the hell cares. Obviously there are players who enjoy both a great amount. To limit one for the other is a dumb idea. Especially when 1 community takes care of themselves and only require so very little ha.
You see it as a dumb idea, while Blizzard (and others in their community) see it as the developers wanting to focus on developing what they enjoy developing (the PvM). Just because that means the game doesn't cater to your play~style specifically, doesn't make it a dumb idea. Blizzard doesn't make decisions like these without research either. They obviously know they can keep the game alive without a highly competitive PvP environment...
Yes, PvM is evenly matched with PvP still after 12~ years of Diablo 2's life. Considering many of those people still grinding PvM after all this time have beaten the story...a couple hundred times?...seems pretty amazing that PvM is still going that strong. I'm confident that Diablo 3's PvM crowd will be the majority...for a few years at least. Sure, many will PvP for fun occasionally...but that doesn't mean their focus will be PvP. Just like many players I knew in Diablo 2 did PvP on occasion...but it wasn't their focus.
Diablo has always been a game about diving through dungeons, killing the minions of hell...
You know this is an interesting response. One you have mimic'd about a million times now.
I want to ask this question since you are so damn into what Diablo is about.
What is Starcraft 2? Or hell Starcraft for that matter?
Esports game?
Multiplayer game?
Single player game?
Used map settings game?
Level designer game?
There is no right answer. Any of those above can fully explain a great and fantastic way to play and enjoy Starcraft. Are any of them more right then the other? Are any of them more legit then the other? No. They all are very fleshed out communities within the game that support it and are a reason for its longevity. To ignore one of them would be a retarded move and to say you are more important is equally retarded.
The same concept can be applied to Diablo. Now you bitch and moan and cry that you are the majority (Congrats, really!). You are so scared and hateful toward the minority that we are not even allowed to have a conversation with each other about mechanics or modes we would like to see in the game to benefit not only US, but EVERYONE.
It is pretty ironic really, you bitch about the negativity that competitive gamers bring to the table, and yet your closed mindedness and elitist attitude toward how to play Diablo correctly is doing more damage then I have seen any elitist PvP'er do.
Ill say it again, hostility was amazing, because it gave me the ability to handle someone like you in my game. You run your mouth and I could take care of it, no problem. Now? Now you are protected, just how you want it. And no, this isn't about griefing, it is about putting loud mouthed ignorant people in their place, see you in game buddy.
All of my years of experience on Diablo and the countless amount of people I met along the way disprove your argument A. It is just as Conax says, people PvM'd to level and get gear, so they could PvP.
Now obviously everyone plays the game for different reasons, everyone has a different experience. There is no 1 right way to play Diablo. So to discredit how we saw the game or how we played the game is just plain retarded. You and even Blizzard have no actual data determining what was the reason D2 lasted as long as it did(does). They could possibly and this is a long stretch, have data seeing how many PvM games vs Duel games there are, but to what end those PvM games are is data that is impossible to achieve. Not to mention the countless private duel games and the private PvM games which would skew all of the data to a drastic margin.
Bottom line of this story, don't look like an ass and preach baseless lies as facts.
From my experience, it went both ways. There wasn't a majority that PvM'd purely to PvP even in the last few years that I played. Some did go for PvP, sure...but many also did it just to level, get gear, and overcome challenges. So, from my experience there was as many or more people playing PvM just to enjoy PvM (cannot account for private matches).
This is at the END of the game's life, when the majority of players had played through the story an extensive amount of times. So the fact that PvM players matched PvP players in numbers...means that Blizzard is fully justified in focusing Diablo 3 on PvM... If Blizzard can achieve those results via PvM still with a game that is 12~ years old...imagine what they can achieve with a new game.
Ha ok, so you are boasting that a game primarily developed for its robust and terrific PvM has its community matched by an inferior shallow mechanic right?
Now imagine if that shallow inferior mechanic was given a little bit more depth, a little more opening toward new players, a little more exposure...you think your robust PvM that is only evenly matched with the shallow inferior mechanic will still compete when it is also a robust mechanic?
The correct answer is, who the hell cares. Obviously there are players who enjoy both a great amount. To limit one for the other is a dumb idea. Especially when 1 community takes care of themselves and only require so very little ha.
Well i dont care if you read my posts or not and i wrote it on my phone so i cba to break it up. Anyway the fight itself is awsome, getting rewarded properly is more awsome. It would be like saying pve without rewards would be awsome. It wouldnt. Climbing ranks, perhaps getting pvp dedicated Vanity items, pvp dedicated colors and titles would be freakin sweet. That would make the game live for a very very Long time and it gives People something to fight for.
If there are no rewards, no ranking or any competetive Nature within their pvp systems then the whole Point with pvp is gone. you Will get tierd of it 2 pretty soon im sure. Unless ofcourse you can Chase a goat around a pole for hours and still be amused. My Point is pvp is competetive by nature and Will Always be. Take that away and its not pvp, you might aswell make npcs to fight in the arena because the whole meaning with it is gone. its just as fun smashing npcs for no reason as it is killing players for no reason. There is no difference.
A; The game is going to live for a very long time because of the PVE element of the item hunt. It's what kept D2 going for so long - not pvp. As a matter of fact, a very small fraction of the D2 community pvp'd more than once in a great while.
B; Blizzard has already said, very recently, that they are firmly against; Spectator mode / replays / pvp ladders / pvp only items / anything that leads towards competitiveness in PVP other than the very nature of pvp itself. In other words, it's going to stay the way it was before, save for maybe some different game modes, and maybe the option to do custom matches.
All of my years of experience on Diablo and the countless amount of people I met along the way disprove your argument A. It is just as Conax says, people PvM'd to level and get gear, so they could PvP.
Now obviously everyone plays the game for different reasons, everyone has a different experience. There is no 1 right way to play Diablo. So to discredit how we saw the game or how we played the game is just plain retarded. You and even Blizzard have no actual data determining what was the reason D2 lasted as long as it did(does). They could possibly and this is a long stretch, have data seeing how many PvM games vs Duel games there are, but to what end those PvM games are is data that is impossible to achieve. Not to mention the countless private duel games and the private PvM games which would skew all of the data to a drastic margin.
Bottom line of this story, don't look like an ass and preach baseless lies as facts.
Not everyone plays to get more PvP power. In fact, many plays played purely to overcome PvM challenges. Just because that isn't something you enjoy, doesn't mean it isn't something many other players do. In Diablo 3 there is the added challenge of Inferno, which will keep people grinding PvM for at least a year likely (more if you consider hardcore characters).
That said, I'm looking forward to PvP in Diablo 3. Arena should offer a welcome break from grinding in a fun casual environment. I don't want to see that changed because such an environment will encourage players that would never have PvP'd in Diablo 2, to PvP in Diablo 3. It doesn't need rewards, it doesn't need more competitive features, or anything like that. It can be fun just for the sake of having fun killing other players.
Why do you have this need to make a game into something the developers themselves do not want?
Well just because it is something you don't enjoy doesn't mean that it is bad for the game or the community. You keep throwing around these "statistics" which have no real meaning, they are as meaningful as me saying you suck at the game or that PvP'ers are the majority or that PvM'ers are the majority, neither of us can prove any of these ignorant statements and they do nothing but show ignorance on our part.
Arena can and i'm sure will provide you and people like you with that casual experience, the break from the grind, the fun 1 off play through of PvP. What does it offer to people who actually like the PvP style of Diablo though? We are suddenly shunned and kicked in the corner because we simply enjoy to have some sort of competitiveness in our PvP? We are outlawed and banished because we simply want to help grow the community and interest in Diablo and show off its great PvP potential? When it comes to talking with you, it always comes down to how you are the majority and how Blizzard hates competition in Diablo, you are always completely ignorant and blind to what a competitive community can do for a game and constantly misuse words like esports and competition.
Ecutruin: Endgame wont be endgame, PvP wont be PvP. Gear will just be gear and there is nothing in the game to strive and fight for. Fun will stop being fun, even to you unless ofcourse you're one of those who can ride a bike around a pole for hours on end. Usually, you enjoy the PvE game, gather the best gear so you then can preform better in PvP and climb the ranks, right there you have a game that will last for many years to come. You all get the illusion that this arena they are creating will be like rebecca black says "FUN FUN FUN". Yes it will be fun in the beginning but people will whine about balance and overpowered setups and then they will start to whine over the incompentet players they get paired with unless you team up with RLs or other good players that you know. This arena will most defenetly not be as fun as people think it will. No good rewards, no goals, teamed up with retards no matter what "hidden rating you have" which will be another "fun" experience and add to the more fun, they will whine about balance, they will whine about getting owned, they will whine about overpowered setups and the flaming will begin. Killing players will get old unless you're one of those who get distracted by a shiny penny on the ground while someone gets killed in the background. No goals, no rewards, whats the point? Forced to play PvE just because there is no good PvP? Bite me honestly. Blizzard can skip making an arena if they think their PvE will hold, but no they make PvP because they know it wont hold for that long and neither will their casual arena.
Bingo.
People have way to much faith in Blizzards PvM haha. I only PvM'd in Diablo 2 so I could get better gear so I could PvP. You honestly think killing some retarded AI monsters is incentive for me to play the game for a long time? Game is about building your character, gathering your gear, and seeing who is the best. Can't wait for their "hard" mode inferno to get stomped in a few weeks.
I think we can all agree, for the sake of argument, that the Diablo series has been a PvE-game series at it's core. I myself being a hardcore gamer and an e-sport enthousiast, cannot deny this. However what do I do believe is that Diablo II's open and unregulated PvP environment most certainly did contribute a whole lot to it's extreme longevity, as it allowed for a lot of creativity and it allowed the community to shape the PvP scene into what it wanted it to be.
For a large amount of people (call it the majority if you will, i perhaps have a different perspective) the 'hostility based pvp system' had a lot of negative side-effects. Though I myself did not experience it as such, as i was in the top echelon of Diablo players, I do believe that the hostility system was inherently flawed. The system did leave a hell lot of room for griefing and unfair play, which is something that should never be condoned. We should be able to conclude that then was then, and now is now. Systems that worked back then do not necessarily work now, especially since said systems were already flawed back then. So in conclusion of this particular subject, I personally feel that the hostility system did have it's perks (such as freedom of play, being capable of forming creative PvP formats, etc.), but those perks were definately overshadowed by it's downsides.
I myself being a very competitive player love E-sports, I love being as effective and powerful as can be and competing with people of comparable skill and dedication. However it is important that 'we' (my kind of player) accepts that not everyone is like us, and that such a competitive environment is actually considered to be 'not fun' by the majority of players.
On the subject of PvE vs. PvP. I stated that Diablo is at it's core a PvE game, but the option of creative PvP play vastly increases it's replayability, I think we can all agree on this being true. In that light I personally am delighted that Diablo III will NOT be an E-sport game, for i believe that the absence of the 'E-sport mentality' being the dominant mentality will open up a lot of room for creative and 'out of the box' play, all in the name of the great equalizer, fun.
In conclusion it is my deepest wish for Diablo III that each and every single one of us is given the opportunity by Blizzard (within certain boundaries) to create their own playstyle and play environment. Let the 'pros' be 'pro' and competitive among those of their own kind, and let the majority that does not want to be competitive all have their own individual environments that they all enjoy. The absence of the E-sports mentality as a guideline for game design should most definately facilitate this, and I hope that Blizzard will act accordingly. All in the name of fun, replayability and longevity.
I hope you all get the Diablo III you wish for.
<3
Good post. Pretty much what a few of us have been saying since the start. Sadly we keep being bombed by people who wish that you can only play the game their way or no way. They cite old quotes and cry resources, yet they apparently must be new to Blizzard's designing of games.
Ill "fluff" my ego all I want buddy, till you or anyone else here can take me down to your level, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Ive been around the gaming community and competitive gaming community for a long time, I can easily determine how well I will do in a game before it comes out.
And it's statements exactly like this that make you lose all credibility.
OH NO! Not my forum cred! I really wonder what life would be like if I was to see it through your guys eyes. Just bow down and surrender to everything before even trying, having no faith or confidence what so ever. Must be a wonderful place. Oh well, ill just let my 20+ years of gaming experience talk for me, especially when PvP gets released and your the poor sucker who gets matched up against me. Have fun trying to use your PvM build against me ha, might find me a little harder then Diablo's AI buddy.
Depends on the player. I have never built a character in all the years of Diablo's lifespan that couldn't complete hell solo. Even going as far as taking it solo with 8 people in game. All depends on the player and gear for that build.
Also team arena PvP doesn't test anything. It is far to reliant on your team and ganking people to get a true understanding of what your build is actually good for beyond jumping someone. Also add in the fact that it will be plagued by unorchestrated teams who have no idea what they are doing or how to use their character. Makes for a pretty lack luster and boring mechanic. Yea it will "scale" with level and gear and skill, whoopty doo, I fight 4k+PP SSF4AE kids all the time and they blow just as bad as 500PP kids. Rank or scale doesn't mean jack, that is why private ladders dominate corporate ladders because the garbage simply can't hang.
Well, looks like this game might not be for you... simple as that (at least in regard to PvP). I feel quite differently then you do about the proposed PvP system. For one, Team Arena will allow you to test your skill with your character skill. It lets you test your survival in a fast paced PvP environment. Sure, you may get matched up with people under your skill (thought not often if their system works well), but it doesn't mean you cannot understand your character enough to still do well.
Honestly, you need to stop being so full of yourself. You make comments constantly that you'll own everyone and are so awesome. There is no way for you to know how well you'll do in Diablo 3 PvP. You base your judgments on your experience with Diablo 2, while Diablo 3 is a different game, with different skills, different mechanics, and a whole new community of gamers. How about waiting and seeing if the PvP system turns out terrible before condemning it?
A game without a nice pvp is the same thing that a sand castle.
You can build it.
it can be nice.
but it means nothing.
Not every game needs to focus around PvP, so I cannot agree. That said, Blizzard's plans for PvP in Diablo 3 should give nice PvP. It sounds like a great way to jump into PvP, bash other players and come out of it having fun (regardless of win/loss).
Riiight different mechanics huh? Move, aim, zone...all apparent in EVERY game I play, including D2. Look at that...it is in D3 also...oh I guess I can't use games that use the same mechanics as a measure for how well I will do.
Ill "fluff" my ego all I want buddy, till you or anyone else here can take me down to your level, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Ive been around the gaming community and competitive gaming community for a long time, I can easily determine how well I will do in a game before it comes out.
'' 12:48 AM - Friend: D2 = PVP now that being said their were a bunch of ppl like u who just farmed and stuff
12:48 AM - Friend: but if it was JUST you guys the game would nvr have lasted as long as it is''
he's pretty damn right... »D2 didn't have alot of end game PVE content but there was alot of challenge in PVP in the sense that you could make many differents builds and then compare their strenghts with other players. You couldnt really compare your strenght with PVE content.
Not exactly true. In Diablo 2 you would frequently run into builds that couldn't make it past nightmare/hell due to various issues. This is what lead to the realization by many that Diablo 2 really didn't have much actual customization (many builds just weren't viable). In Diablo 3 they have Inferno for really testing your skills in PvM. In addition to this, you will have Arena PvP to test your builds against players as well.
Depends on the player. I have never built a character in all the years of Diablo's lifespan that couldn't complete hell solo. Even going as far as taking it solo with 8 people in game. All depends on the player and gear for that build.
Also team arena PvP doesn't test anything. It is far to reliant on your team and ganking people to get a true understanding of what your build is actually good for beyond jumping someone. Also add in the fact that it will be plagued by unorchestrated teams who have no idea what they are doing or how to use their character. Makes for a pretty lack luster and boring mechanic. Yea it will "scale" with level and gear and skill, whoopty doo, I fight 4k+PP SSF4AE kids all the time and they blow just as bad as 500PP kids. Rank or scale doesn't mean jack, that is why private ladders dominate corporate ladders because the garbage simply can't hang.
Still in the delusional world where the arena is casual eh? Losses don't matter...ha...good one.
Still complaining that the game isn't Diablo 2?
Seriously, Diablo 3 is a new game guys. Blizzard stated early on that their goal was not to have a competitive PvP environment. Why is it even a complaint? Its like people complaining that the next Pokemon game isn't a FPS because they want it to be one. Why do you feel entitled to have it your way? Why am I wrong for wanting it the way Blizzard actually said they want it to be?
Nope, could care less how close it is to D2. D2 wasn't very close to D1 and I still got around to liking it. Then again, they both supported my style of gameplay, so will see with this one. Either way it is what it is, if it sucks to me I move on, if it is fun then great. No point crying over it in every thread like some people do.
Also to some people they played Diablo to PvM gear and then to PvP with that gear. They also got involved in the wonderful world of player structured PvP, which should be represented in Diablo 3. So little different then taking pokemon RPG genre to a FPS. Since Diablo is and well should be predominantly PvM based, it should also keep it roots of allowing the community to craft itself and let us have the PvP experience we want, not something that is contrived and well weaker in appearance in every way.
Yes you have match making! Wow....great..who cares about that again? Oh but you have hidden rankings that match up....yea, those work great in SC, and well im sure there will be no problems here either ha. Oh wait..you have....casual matches all the time where nothing matters...yea cause that makes sense, im sure it will work just like that. Where is your fantasy world at anyway, I would love to take a trip there.
So, there is an equal chance we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
What I feel they should do.. is what they ARE doing. Focusing the game away from highly competitive gameplay. Keeping the PvP aspect of the game a more casual Arena mode meant to be played for fun and not prizes. It means that losing doesn't matter, and balance doesn't need to be perfect.
Since this is the route they are already going, seems a good idea for them to stick the course.
Still in the delusional world where the arena is casual eh? Losses don't matter...ha...good one.
ecutruin: You agree with blizzards stance and blizzard disagrees with the hardcore PvP playerbase, blizzard in turn gets alot of crap for it and you cant expect hardcore PvPers take another stance aginst those who agree with them. They want PvE and casual meaningless PvP. Hardcore PvPers wants PvE and AWSOME endgame PvP to focus on when we got the gear we want. Casual PvP just wont do, it will be meaningless to ALOT of hardcore PvPers, being unable to progress in some way is not rewarding, exciting, fun or positive in any way. Casual PvP will become extremely boring and alot of players will quit when they have nothing else left to do. When you've farmed inferno, perfected your gear, played alittle TDM, what then? You have NOTHING of value to gain within PvP after that. I hardly doubt people will play the game forever just to keep farming. Also, the team that loses gains ranking anyway, not just as much as the winner. What kinda stupid system is that? Rewarding the losing team? Even if they try to create this "casual" PvP, people will still think competetively, but will eventually get insanely bored for not being rewarded except gaining some new banners and achievements. Wohoo.. thats what i want. A banner and an achievement i will stare at for years. People will certainly look at it to! Not. I can use the freakin' custom banner for years to come, who gives a crap? There is no status shown with a banner. A player with a high rank, thats a status and gives braging rights. Blizzard wants you to PvP for fun. Fun in their eyes is just killing other players, nothing more. That will stop being fun, pretty quickly to. The way i see it, they have made an arena with TDM mode so far, all the rewards you can get isnt even rewards imo, i couldnt care less if i got a new banner or an achievement. As there is no penalty at all, players can watch a movie and just stand still in the arena, still getting rewarded for their awsome absence. Sure, it might be fun for a little while but, eventually pretty quickly you'll get bored and realize that there is nothing to improve and you have no goal to climb towards. And yes, there were rules within PvP in D2. Yes, it was pretty balanced with the rules used, ganking low levels is nothing a hardcore player does unless they're high or drunk and yes there were goals, becoming known as a good PvPer, some even arranged private tournaments with different prices. All D2 lacked was good systems to help making the PvP better. They lacked the technology we have today.
Gryzorz: PvP is competetive by nature and have always been. It's like saying pro football players isnt competetive at all. They need to be in order to have the motivation to play. If you're not competetive as a pro football player then there is not even the slightest feeling of happiness or sadness in winning or losing because it wouldnt matter if you werent competetive.
I read about half of this wall, but what I did read I agree on.
All we need is the private arena, where we can change teams after a match and we can have everything we had in Diablo 2 high end PvP. The community will take charge again and make rules and balances, and private ladders will form and that is all a high end PvP'er in Diablo needs or wants.
Bottom line, we want the option to do what we could before for PvP, not esports, not gank low levels, but the ability to craft our community into something great. The public arena is not that mechanic, and it never will be. Put the power in Blizzards hands when they don't give a shit and it will ruin a part of the community.
While all this theorizing about griefing is entertaining at best, I don't really think this is the point of this thread. Unless suddenly became the new form of PvP...
it just might be. I mean who knows what year it will be before we get any real PvP.
No it is pretty simple again really.
See in Diablo 2 I can make a game and name it what I want the game to be about. Now in D3 they removed that feature and now you have no idea what you are joining other then a quest. There are certain player types I might not want to play with, Blizzard can't force me to play with anyone, if I don't like you in my game I can kick you, that is why such a feature is there. How will I get in trouble for not wanting to play with certain people?
Because, if you don't want to play with certain people...you're expected to play private. Playing a public game means you're playing WITH THE PUBLIC. You're expected to complete the quest with other people. If you specifically harass people and kick them you will get reported and as such liable to be banned. Such is what it means to play with other players.
Hey you give me no ability to filter or give a sign for the people I want to play with. I am to do what I need to do, and that is kick undesirable people out of my game. I made no foul, and I definitely won't get in trouble. I guess you never ran a business or worked in retail.
So you start a game as a private game then make it public and then grief. Then your excuse would be. "Hey the game was private and I let some random join to grief by making it public..." Seriously is that supposed to be a counter argument to how grief in a public game will get you banned cause if it is it fails.
No it is pretty simple again really.
See in Diablo 2 I can make a game and name it what I want the game to be about. Now in D3 they removed that feature and now you have no idea what you are joining other then a quest. There are certain player types I might not want to play with, Blizzard can't force me to play with anyone, if I don't like you in my game I can kick you, that is why such a feature is there. How will I get in trouble for not wanting to play with certain people?
Oh, but I don't think so. See the game started as a private game. I then made the choice to turn it open for others to join ME. I don't have to play with anyone, if I don't want to play with you I don't have to. What will their case be? "He is a big meanie and didn't wanna play with me!". It will fail every time.
It won't fail every time. In fact people have been banned for doing the same thing in instances in WoW. As for making a private and opening it to the public. That doesn't work last I recall. The best you can do is open the game for your friends to join. Private games don't have matchmaking from what I understand. So your only method of griefing would be to either grief your friends.. or grief in public and get banned. Sorry.
Uh what? It worked just fine in beta. I make a team or make a private game. I hit what esc and said make game public. Very simple, people then flooded in instantly.
Are you ok? Your arguments and discussions are falling apart everywhere tonight. Maybe take a nap and try again tomorrow.
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I want to ask this question since you are so damn into what Diablo is about.
What is Starcraft 2? Or hell Starcraft for that matter?
The same concept can be applied to Diablo. Now you bitch and moan and cry that you are the majority (Congrats, really!). You are so scared and hateful toward the minority that we are not even allowed to have a conversation with each other about mechanics or modes we would like to see in the game to benefit not only US, but EVERYONE.
It is pretty ironic really, you bitch about the negativity that competitive gamers bring to the table, and yet your closed mindedness and elitist attitude toward how to play Diablo correctly is doing more damage then I have seen any elitist PvP'er do.
Ill say it again, hostility was amazing, because it gave me the ability to handle someone like you in my game. You run your mouth and I could take care of it, no problem. Now? Now you are protected, just how you want it. And no, this isn't about griefing, it is about putting loud mouthed ignorant people in their place, see you in game buddy.
Now imagine if that shallow inferior mechanic was given a little bit more depth, a little more opening toward new players, a little more exposure...you think your robust PvM that is only evenly matched with the shallow inferior mechanic will still compete when it is also a robust mechanic?
The correct answer is, who the hell cares. Obviously there are players who enjoy both a great amount. To limit one for the other is a dumb idea. Especially when 1 community takes care of themselves and only require so very little ha.
Now obviously everyone plays the game for different reasons, everyone has a different experience. There is no 1 right way to play Diablo. So to discredit how we saw the game or how we played the game is just plain retarded. You and even Blizzard have no actual data determining what was the reason D2 lasted as long as it did(does). They could possibly and this is a long stretch, have data seeing how many PvM games vs Duel games there are, but to what end those PvM games are is data that is impossible to achieve. Not to mention the countless private duel games and the private PvM games which would skew all of the data to a drastic margin.
Bottom line of this story, don't look like an ass and preach baseless lies as facts.
Well just because it is something you don't enjoy doesn't mean that it is bad for the game or the community. You keep throwing around these "statistics" which have no real meaning, they are as meaningful as me saying you suck at the game or that PvP'ers are the majority or that PvM'ers are the majority, neither of us can prove any of these ignorant statements and they do nothing but show ignorance on our part.
Arena can and i'm sure will provide you and people like you with that casual experience, the break from the grind, the fun 1 off play through of PvP. What does it offer to people who actually like the PvP style of Diablo though? We are suddenly shunned and kicked in the corner because we simply enjoy to have some sort of competitiveness in our PvP? We are outlawed and banished because we simply want to help grow the community and interest in Diablo and show off its great PvP potential? When it comes to talking with you, it always comes down to how you are the majority and how Blizzard hates competition in Diablo, you are always completely ignorant and blind to what a competitive community can do for a game and constantly misuse words like esports and competition.
People have way to much faith in Blizzards PvM haha. I only PvM'd in Diablo 2 so I could get better gear so I could PvP. You honestly think killing some retarded AI monsters is incentive for me to play the game for a long time? Game is about building your character, gathering your gear, and seeing who is the best. Can't wait for their "hard" mode inferno to get stomped in a few weeks.
Ill "fluff" my ego all I want buddy, till you or anyone else here can take me down to your level, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Ive been around the gaming community and competitive gaming community for a long time, I can easily determine how well I will do in a game before it comes out.
Also team arena PvP doesn't test anything. It is far to reliant on your team and ganking people to get a true understanding of what your build is actually good for beyond jumping someone. Also add in the fact that it will be plagued by unorchestrated teams who have no idea what they are doing or how to use their character. Makes for a pretty lack luster and boring mechanic. Yea it will "scale" with level and gear and skill, whoopty doo, I fight 4k+PP SSF4AE kids all the time and they blow just as bad as 500PP kids. Rank or scale doesn't mean jack, that is why private ladders dominate corporate ladders because the garbage simply can't hang.
Also to some people they played Diablo to PvM gear and then to PvP with that gear. They also got involved in the wonderful world of player structured PvP, which should be represented in Diablo 3. So little different then taking pokemon RPG genre to a FPS. Since Diablo is and well should be predominantly PvM based, it should also keep it roots of allowing the community to craft itself and let us have the PvP experience we want, not something that is contrived and well weaker in appearance in every way.
Yes you have match making! Wow....great..who cares about that again? Oh but you have hidden rankings that match up....yea, those work great in SC, and well im sure there will be no problems here either ha. Oh wait..you have....casual matches all the time where nothing matters...yea cause that makes sense, im sure it will work just like that. Where is your fantasy world at anyway, I would love to take a trip there.
All we need is the private arena, where we can change teams after a match and we can have everything we had in Diablo 2 high end PvP. The community will take charge again and make rules and balances, and private ladders will form and that is all a high end PvP'er in Diablo needs or wants.
Bottom line, we want the option to do what we could before for PvP, not esports, not gank low levels, but the ability to craft our community into something great. The public arena is not that mechanic, and it never will be. Put the power in Blizzards hands when they don't give a shit and it will ruin a part of the community.
See in Diablo 2 I can make a game and name it what I want the game to be about. Now in D3 they removed that feature and now you have no idea what you are joining other then a quest. There are certain player types I might not want to play with, Blizzard can't force me to play with anyone, if I don't like you in my game I can kick you, that is why such a feature is there. How will I get in trouble for not wanting to play with certain people?
Are you ok? Your arguments and discussions are falling apart everywhere tonight. Maybe take a nap and try again tomorrow.