Nope, im just waiting for an intelligent put together post comes through. You sit there and bash PvP'ers, bash our opinions and our views and how we play the game. Yet offer no proof to back your claims. All of the proof that you or others have put forth I have put out as nothing but a training issue if you will. It is a training opportunity in the real world in this situation for you guys.
So, forcing people to re~make characters is a good thing because its 'training'? The majority of us don't agree. I personally find it an annoyance that hinders my enjoyment of the game. I prefer to be able to fluidly build my character and evolve it as I go, instead of being locked into something. You know.. its more 'fun' and fun is good because.. its a game.
Still waiting on who I insulted? You? How so haha?
Um you don't need to prove anything about D2? Then shut up about it, you have no points to prove then be quiet ha. That is like me saying I don't have to prove anything on D3 or Blizzards design theories yet I can bash it all day. If that is the case then again, be quiet.
You really don't read do you? I said I don't need to prove anything because Blizzard and others have done it for me already. Blizzard has explained exactly why...and you ignore it or complain they are babying people. A vast majority of players repeat the explanation and give additional proof... and you ignore it and say they must be retarded if they cannot handle it. Sorry, but you're not open~minded. You are stuck in your own lil box and lash out at anyone that opposes you. The proof is there, you just are blind to it.
Where to start....
Who did I insult? The LoL players? LoL plays like a mini game version of D2 PvP, if that insults you then im sorry get thicker skin.
If you get upset that I have a hard opinion on how Blizzard is developing this game then im sorry, again get thicker skin.
Diablo 2's design encouraged weak minded individuals to look for "optimal" builds, no half way decent player needed a website to build a lasting character. You and everyone else that claims this has failed on all accounts to prove me wrong on this either. Same goes for PvP in Diablo 2. You all claim broken and non skilled, yet have no evidence of it while I can provide essays for my side. Please pick a new topic to cry about.
Wooh, using insults to prove your point again...way to show you should be taken seriously.
I don't need proof that Diablo 2 had issues, Blizzard stated it specifically. Look at the many threads about the topic as well, I'm not the only one that feels this way...the majority do. I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The majority of players ended up with frustration as they hit higher difficulties and had to remake characters due to stat point flaws. The OPTIMAL build was always the exact build I stated earlier as well, meaning that OPTIMALLY stats turned out the exact same way as if you didn't have them. Wala.. Diablo 3..
Right LoL has similarities but it is replacement for Diablo style PvP. It is a mini game tops.
Also me bashing Blizzards design theories has nothing to do with you, and Blizzard is free to bring their asses in here and dispute it if they want. They don't need you fighting their battles for them im sure.
Another thing, me calling the community retarded is based off of Blizzard's design theory that players can't think correctly or for themselves, thus retarded.
Anything else buddy?
I think many LoL players would disagree with you, myself included. You might not find it fun or challenging, but that doesn't mean others don't. Yet, you choose to resort to insulting again instead of just accepting that you can be wrong.
As for you bashing Blizzard, I'm a fan of Blizzard and their games. Of course it offends me when you make baseless claims and insult a company that I have great respect for. I'm going to respond to such claims as well. Blizzard has never said players cannot think for themselves. In fact, the design of Diablo 3 encourages players to experiment and test things out for themselves, while Diablo 2's design encouraged players to follow cookie cutter builds off websites... hrm...
LoL is nothing like Diablo PvP. Nowhere near as fast paced and is team based mostly.
Hrm, as I've played League of Legends since beta...I'll disagree that it is not fast paced. As for it not being like PvP in Diablo 3? Team vs Team Arena with 6 skills max? LoL has 4 skills and is team based... hrm.. seems quite similar to me actually.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful. Also, ok so you are the majority (In your eyes), great so you should get 100% of the attention correct? Why not just remove PvP period? I mean think of all of the design resources and time you get to save!
So.. calling people carebears, bashing Blizzard, calling the community retards, etc.. Not insults right?
As for the majority...funny thing...a lot of the PvM players are actually interested in Arena. So seems that PvP is a good goal as a side option. However, I do think that they could just opt out of releasing PvP and still sell the game well. I mean, look... they kinda are already doing that.
So your argument is that you are more important then me because you like to PvM more? So you are so greedy that any second of attention that PvP gets you are going to run to your mommy and cry? I love this community haha.
The PvM players are more important in Blizzard's eyes. No offence to you intended but the game's focus is co~op play. Even Arena will have a strong co~op focus with Team vs Team. So yes, a PvM player is more important when the game in question is focused around PvM and co~op play.
I love how you cannot seem to post without resorting to insults and harassment. Quite surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet, to be honest.
So how does anything we suggest hurt PvM?
The resources? They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
Its not out of their realm. Then again, it wouldn't be out of their realm to suddenly make the entire game an FPS either. The reality of the situation is that it isn't non~trivial. Since you obviously have not done development and even more~so, development in a bigger company...you really have no idea of the timescale that even small alterations to design actually take. In a top game company like Blizzard, making small changes requires confirmation with multiple teams, quality checking, etc. It can take time for even changes like you ask for to actually be implemented. So yes, it does cost resources that are noticeable.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
I am not anti-PvP. If you've actually paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd realize that. What I am against is people trying to shove a style of PvP into a game not designed for it. I am looking forward to Arena. I'm looking forwards to being able to randomly hop in and fight players for fun.
Unlike the few complaining PvP players here though, I actually understand WHY Blizzard made the decisions they made. The target market they are shooting for is a more casual market. That market doesn't WANT to learn how abilities work differently in PvP vs PvM. They want to be able to take a break from their PvM, jump into PvP, and just have fun. You guys act like Jay made his decision without actually knowing his community. You're completely wrong. The MAJORITY want the game the way it has become for the most part. Its only a minority of competitive PvP players too lost in their Diablo 2 gameplay days that end up not wanting Arena for PvP.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
Except for the fact that if creates frustration with the casual players that end up having their skills work differently in PvP and PvM. Since the game is targeted at the casual market, it seems like doing as you suggest would be a bad idea. Perhaps you should think more about how others will react and not just what you want.
All of you arguing about relative PvM vs PvP player numbers: Blizzard *knows* the numbers. They own the service, and can look at logs for any time period they want for how many dueled, how many ran X boss, etc.
If PvP (real PvP, not griefers forcing it on people who didn't want PvP) was as important to D2 as some of you think, Blizzard would have come up with a different plan than they have. Your importance to D3 is not nearly as high as you seem to think, with the plan Blizzard is using now.
Having said that, I'm fine with them adding the arenas for you, but I'm not in favor of hostility in the open world.. You can have a hostile area to play in, and I'm sure the PvP patch will have that.
Going back to D2's forced hostility model would mean the end of D3, imo.
Haha you are in for a surprise. They didn't take away the "my virtual dick is bigger" toy at all. They might of took some steam off of it but it will always be in any online game.
PvP'ers who do not come from WoW don't cry nerfs. Never have in D2 and won't in D3. It is a chess match and a rock paper scissor game, nerfing isn't required.
Nerfing happened many times in D2, so you're wrong. Nerfing has already happened in D3. Its called game balance, it happens.
Well good that you think it plays out very well so far. Me and the other guy and a few others feel it played out pretty well in Diablo1-2.
Opinions are great eh?
Diablo 1-2 did work alright for its time. Unfortunately that was 12~ years ago. Games and gaming has evolved, you obviously have not evolved with it. Honestly, I'm quite confident that the average player wouldn't want to play with you at all... so I think Blizzard is doing the right thing reducing the incentives for more gamers like yourself. ^-^
If Diablo becomes an eSports it WILL NOT affect the PvM part of the game, Blizzard will make sure of that. It seems to me that all the PvM players are whining about getting there toes stepped on when in fact the PvM players are stabbing us in the back. I would like to sit in a room with the PvP'ers and me on one side and the PvM'ers on the other and see what happens, it is pretty hard to judge someone when you not face to face. WoW was not meant for eSports but it happened and it is still as popular as ever (till MoP was announced). As Mac said we defend your right to kill monsters but you won't defend our right to kill each other and have rankings. We can have both, those that like PvM can do boss runs and inferno. PvP players just want to kill each other and have rankings. Why are rankings so bad? I have had negative K/D sores in almost every game I have ever played but I still love PvP. I would like to know who the best player is and give him some credit. No MMO game can just be casual it is just as competitive in PvM as it is in PvP.
As I said, I support your right for personal ratings. I don't support you seeing my rating, or anyone else's rating. This gives the best of both worlds, but letting you see how you personally do in PvP to help yourself improve, while letting me just ignore ratings and play for fun without anyone bothering me about it.
It seems that you didn't play early WoW though. There were a lot of very fun chance on hit equipment, flashy spells, etc.. that got reworked and/or cut from the game because Blizzard tried to make competitive PvP in WoW. This is why many of us are uneasy about PvP affecting PvM. We've seen what happens to a Blizzard game that tries to focus on both PvM and PvP. Its got a history of not working that well (in WoW's case.. PvP has a lot of issues AND we lost a bunch from PvM).
I'm all for optional features in Diablo 3 like spectator, team vs team, duels, specific zone wold PvP or mutual hostile mode, etc. However, if those features become something I have to participate in...I cannot support it. I want to be able to play the game for fun and ignore the more competitive elements if I so choose. This is why I suggest personal stats. Lets me ignore them, and you have them...seems like the best of both worlds to me.
So, forcing people to re~make characters is a good thing because its 'training'? The majority of us don't agree. I personally find it an annoyance that hinders my enjoyment of the game. I prefer to be able to fluidly build my character and evolve it as I go, instead of being locked into something. You know.. its more 'fun' and fun is good because.. its a game.
You really don't read do you? I said I don't need to prove anything because Blizzard and others have done it for me already. Blizzard has explained exactly why...and you ignore it or complain they are babying people. A vast majority of players repeat the explanation and give additional proof... and you ignore it and say they must be retarded if they cannot handle it. Sorry, but you're not open~minded. You are stuck in your own lil box and lash out at anyone that opposes you. The proof is there, you just are blind to it.
Wooh, using insults to prove your point again...way to show you should be taken seriously.
I don't need proof that Diablo 2 had issues, Blizzard stated it specifically. Look at the many threads about the topic as well, I'm not the only one that feels this way...the majority do. I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The majority of players ended up with frustration as they hit higher difficulties and had to remake characters due to stat point flaws. The OPTIMAL build was always the exact build I stated earlier as well, meaning that OPTIMALLY stats turned out the exact same way as if you didn't have them. Wala.. Diablo 3..
I think many LoL players would disagree with you, myself included. You might not find it fun or challenging, but that doesn't mean others don't. Yet, you choose to resort to insulting again instead of just accepting that you can be wrong.
As for you bashing Blizzard, I'm a fan of Blizzard and their games. Of course it offends me when you make baseless claims and insult a company that I have great respect for. I'm going to respond to such claims as well. Blizzard has never said players cannot think for themselves. In fact, the design of Diablo 3 encourages players to experiment and test things out for themselves, while Diablo 2's design encouraged players to follow cookie cutter builds off websites... hrm...
Hrm, as I've played League of Legends since beta...I'll disagree that it is not fast paced. As for it not being like PvP in Diablo 3? Team vs Team Arena with 6 skills max? LoL has 4 skills and is team based... hrm.. seems quite similar to me actually.
So.. calling people carebears, bashing Blizzard, calling the community retards, etc.. Not insults right?
As for the majority...funny thing...a lot of the PvM players are actually interested in Arena. So seems that PvP is a good goal as a side option. However, I do think that they could just opt out of releasing PvP and still sell the game well. I mean, look... they kinda are already doing that.
The PvM players are more important in Blizzard's eyes. No offence to you intended but the game's focus is co~op play. Even Arena will have a strong co~op focus with Team vs Team. So yes, a PvM player is more important when the game in question is focused around PvM and co~op play.
I love how you cannot seem to post without resorting to insults and harassment. Quite surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet, to be honest.
Its not out of their realm. Then again, it wouldn't be out of their realm to suddenly make the entire game an FPS either. The reality of the situation is that it isn't non~trivial. Since you obviously have not done development and even more~so, development in a bigger company...you really have no idea of the timescale that even small alterations to design actually take. In a top game company like Blizzard, making small changes requires confirmation with multiple teams, quality checking, etc. It can take time for even changes like you ask for to actually be implemented. So yes, it does cost resources that are noticeable.
I am not anti-PvP. If you've actually paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd realize that. What I am against is people trying to shove a style of PvP into a game not designed for it. I am looking forward to Arena. I'm looking forwards to being able to randomly hop in and fight players for fun.
Unlike the few complaining PvP players here though, I actually understand WHY Blizzard made the decisions they made. The target market they are shooting for is a more casual market. That market doesn't WANT to learn how abilities work differently in PvP vs PvM. They want to be able to take a break from their PvM, jump into PvP, and just have fun. You guys act like Jay made his decision without actually knowing his community. You're completely wrong. The MAJORITY want the game the way it has become for the most part. Its only a minority of competitive PvP players too lost in their Diablo 2 gameplay days that end up not wanting Arena for PvP.
Except for the fact that if creates frustration with the casual players that end up having their skills work differently in PvP and PvM. Since the game is targeted at the casual market, it seems like doing as you suggest would be a bad idea. Perhaps you should think more about how others will react and not just what you want.
Nicely said, +1.
Nerfing happened many times in D2, so you're wrong. Nerfing has already happened in D3. Its called game balance, it happens.
Diablo 1-2 did work alright for its time. Unfortunately that was 12~ years ago. Games and gaming has evolved, you obviously have not evolved with it. Honestly, I'm quite confident that the average player wouldn't want to play with you at all... so I think Blizzard is doing the right thing reducing the incentives for more gamers like yourself. ^-^
Due to the design of the game, you shouldn't ever do both at once... nope. Its the way the game is designed and it plays out very well so far.
As I said, I support your right for personal ratings. I don't support you seeing my rating, or anyone else's rating. This gives the best of both worlds, but letting you see how you personally do in PvP to help yourself improve, while letting me just ignore ratings and play for fun without anyone bothering me about it.
It seems that you didn't play early WoW though. There were a lot of very fun chance on hit equipment, flashy spells, etc.. that got reworked and/or cut from the game because Blizzard tried to make competitive PvP in WoW. This is why many of us are uneasy about PvP affecting PvM. We've seen what happens to a Blizzard game that tries to focus on both PvM and PvP. Its got a history of not working that well (in WoW's case.. PvP has a lot of issues AND we lost a bunch from PvM).
I'm all for optional features in Diablo 3 like spectator, team vs team, duels, specific zone wold PvP or mutual hostile mode, etc. However, if those features become something I have to participate in...I cannot support it. I want to be able to play the game for fun and ignore the more competitive elements if I so choose. This is why I suggest personal stats. Lets me ignore them, and you have them...seems like the best of both worlds to me.