So how does anything we suggest hurt PvM?
The resources? They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
Its not out of their realm. Then again, it wouldn't be out of their realm to suddenly make the entire game an FPS either. The reality of the situation is that it isn't non~trivial. Since you obviously have not done development and even more~so, development in a bigger company...you really have no idea of the timescale that even small alterations to design actually take. In a top game company like Blizzard, making small changes requires confirmation with multiple teams, quality checking, etc. It can take time for even changes like you ask for to actually be implemented. So yes, it does cost resources that are noticeable.
Well lets see, I work for a multi billion dollar company. I make changes that impact the entire staff at my store every day, I take count of resources used and plan a best course for action and determine what gets what priority. I don't sit there and just shit on a quarter of my customers or stock because I feel the other half will get pissy that I spent a little time pleasing someone else that I didn't spend 100% of time on.
Also I have created websites and done programming. I make changes at finished points in all of my work and I am a novice at best, and even I can do it without much problem. Are you telling me that designing an already designed UI and designing a few extra letters is going to put Blizzard under or destroy any PvM plans they have?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
Come on.. Really like this?
Problems:
1st resources (d3 team needs to be working on your changes instead of "mine"- that means PvM)
2nd resources (I'd expect that some people from battlenet team need to be involved in your customizable PvP gaming systems - and yep, I believe better chat is MUCH more needed than your proposed changes)
They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
And yes - I believe that there is a finite amount of work Blizz will allocate to the D3 improvements - and I'd rather have this to be consumed by the PvM content. And that has nothing to do with it being out of their realm. But how long it would take to implement? I don't have the slightest idea.. do you?
And an example - did you expect in 2009 that Diablo 3 will come live in 2012? None of us knows about how long anything will take for Blizzard to finish something. This is partly because they have their own ideas when something is ready.. And secondly, we don't know much about the real coding done in D3 or any other game. Therefore I look down on any kind of comment that basically says "this is easy for Blizzard to make, they are stupid that they ignore it". Be it PvP, different Rune System, skill system or flying monkeys
So your argument is that you are more important then me because you like to PvM more? So you are so greedy that any second of attention that PvP gets you are going to run to your mommy and cry? I love this community haha.
So your argument is that you are more important then me because you like to PvM more? So you are so greedy that any second of attention that PvP gets you are going to run to your mommy and cry? I love this community haha.
The PvM players are more important in Blizzard's eyes. No offence to you intended but the game's focus is co~op play. Even Arena will have a strong co~op focus with Team vs Team. So yes, a PvM player is more important when the game in question is focused around PvM and co~op play.
I love how you cannot seem to post without resorting to insults and harassment. Quite surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet, to be honest.
Well lets see, I work for a multi billion dollar company.
While your argument makes sense, this line really weakens it. It makes this an authority claim, which is essentially an ad hominem where it is not needed.
As for the point presented in your statement, you're very correct to say Blizzard should not crap on a big part of their playerbase (which I'll admit PvP'ers definitely are).
However, what we in all probability will fundamentally disagree on, is wether or not they are "crapping" on the PvP playerbase. Blizzard being Blizzard has made decisions to form this game. These decisions are influenced, but not pushed, by what was available in Diablo 2. I have absolutely no doubt that they have experimented with open world PvP, in the form of hostiling, per Diablo 2 example. For the same reason they cannot impress upon us how hard inferno will be, or how awesome the storyline will be, they cannot fully explain why this did not work as well as we all might have hoped.
As for the E-sport factor many are asking for, there are other objections I've already posted about in another thread. It comes down to that if they redesign every character to have a balanced PvP version of it, it would go far beyond the scope of messing around with crowd control timers, to the point where people have to relearn an essentially new class when they decide to PvP. This would make it extremely new player unfriendly, which simply is not the type of game Blizzard is willing to release.
I hope I made some sense, somewhere in this post. ^^
So your argument is that you are more important then me because you like to PvM more? So you are so greedy that any second of attention that PvP gets you are going to run to your mommy and cry? I love this community haha.
Really cause from your posts I'd expect that you consider everyone beneath you. Now as for the argument yup PvM in a PvM game is more important than a 'real' Pvper. Especially one that mostly insults the game and anyone that holds a view other than your own.
The Diablofranchise has always been about PvM for me.
Thought I still care about elitism, how good I am at the game compared to my friends.
PvP is more for games like League of Legends and such where the dev team can work to alter the classes compability with eachother against eachother.
Sure you have PvP in other Blizzard games, but Diablo is not WoW. And Starcraft/Warcraft is not really PvM like Diablo.
I think Diablo should not have any PvP at all, players who want to pvp with the Diablo style of a game should go and play LoL or head back to wow and Arena. I for one do not want any Arena in Diablo III.
LoL is nothing like Diablo PvP. Nowhere near as fast paced and is team based mostly.
So your argument is that you are more important then me because you like to PvM more? So you are so greedy that any second of attention that PvP gets you are going to run to your mommy and cry? I love this community haha.
The PvM players are more important in Blizzard's eyes. No offence to you intended but the game's focus is co~op play. Even Arena will have a strong co~op focus with Team vs Team. So yes, a PvM player is more important when the game in question is focused around PvM and co~op play.
I love how you cannot seem to post without resorting to insults and harassment. Quite surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet, to be honest.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful. Also, ok so you are the majority (In your eyes), great so you should get 100% of the attention correct? Why not just remove PvP period? I mean think of all of the design resources and time you get to save!
Diablo 1 2 and 3 are NOT.. I repeat not a PvP centered game. It is a add-on feature, something to do while having fun with the game.
Failing to realize that the Diablo franchise is not in any way PvP structured or has been in the past, is sad... if you truly are a diablo fan.
Right so, because you didn't take part in it means that it wasn't important or a part of the game for many gamers. I love that logic, and I refrain from acting so ignorantly on the matter too, I wish I could stoop to that level.
Here let me try:
I own you in PvP, thus that means that I own you period in Diablo, thus that means I am more important. Because where as I own you, you quit and I stay, thus I am important. Well that just sounds dumb.....
I wish I could drink the kool-aid and just blindly follow a flowchart on how to have fun in a game like everyone else here. Teach me please!
LoL is nothing like Diablo PvP. Nowhere near as fast paced and is team based mostly.
Hrm, as I've played League of Legends since beta...I'll disagree that it is not fast paced. As for it not being like PvP in Diablo 3? Team vs Team Arena with 6 skills max? LoL has 4 skills and is team based... hrm.. seems quite similar to me actually.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful. Also, ok so you are the majority (In your eyes), great so you should get 100% of the attention correct? Why not just remove PvP period? I mean think of all of the design resources and time you get to save!
So.. calling people carebears, bashing Blizzard, calling the community retards, etc.. Not insults right?
As for the majority...funny thing...a lot of the PvM players are actually interested in Arena. So seems that PvP is a good goal as a side option. However, I do think that they could just opt out of releasing PvP and still sell the game well. I mean, look... they kinda are already doing that.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful.
Except you belittle your fellow debaters with comments like "Love this community" and "kids these days crack me up" sort of stuff =)
This entire discussion has become one knee-jerk reaction after another. Really, why are we taking sides in this discussion? Why does everyone need to be either for or against PvP? I'm personally entirely for the implementation of a fun PvP arena. Customization of how these arena's work sounds interesting and workable to me. Open game consentual duelling might be an option, if the interaction with the open world doesn't make it gimped. We're in no position to decide that one, since we don't know the game enough. E-sports has some definit downsides for PvM though, so I would say that's not a very good idea.
For or Against? I haven't taken that stance. I'm primarily pvm and I'll probably enjoy the pvp arena. Do I agree with the vast majority of what those stating they uphold the values of 'real' PvP argue for? Nope, but I don't see that making me anti-PvP. It makes me against their suggestions.
I must say that while I'm definitely not much of a PvP player, I do find the argument that a PvP patch with new PvP modes would be wasting resources to be atleast as ignorant as the side saying Diablo is essentially a PvP game. If PvP is where the most fun for efford can be gained, then let it be so.
LoL is nothing like Diablo PvP. Nowhere near as fast paced and is team based mostly.
Hrm, as I've played League of Legends since beta...I'll disagree that it is not fast paced. As for it not being like PvP in Diablo 3? Team vs Team Arena with 6 skills max? LoL has 4 skills and is team based... hrm.. seems quite similar to me actually.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful. Also, ok so you are the majority (In your eyes), great so you should get 100% of the attention correct? Why not just remove PvP period? I mean think of all of the design resources and time you get to save!
So.. calling people carebears, bashing Blizzard, calling the community retards, etc.. Not insults right?
As for the majority...funny thing...a lot of the PvM players are actually interested in Arena. So seems that PvP is a good goal as a side option. However, I do think that they could just opt out of releasing PvP and still sell the game well. I mean, look... they kinda are already doing that.
Right LoL has similarities but it is replacement for Diablo style PvP. It is a mini game tops.
Also me bashing Blizzards design theories has nothing to do with you, and Blizzard is free to bring their asses in here and dispute it if they want. They don't need you fighting their battles for them im sure.
Another thing, me calling the community retarded is based off of Blizzard's design theory that players can't think correctly or for themselves, thus retarded.
"Never argue with an idiot, for they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain
He disagrees with your attack on Blizzard, and must therefore be a Blizzard fanboy. This argument makes me seize all potentially fruitfull discussion you could have had with me on these boards. Goodbye =)
Right LoL has similarities but it is replacement for Diablo style PvP. It is a mini game tops.
Also me bashing Blizzards design theories has nothing to do with you, and Blizzard is free to bring their asses in here and dispute it if they want. They don't need you fighting their battles for them im sure.
Another thing, me calling the community retarded is based off of Blizzard's design theory that players can't think correctly or for themselves, thus retarded.
Anything else buddy?
I think many LoL players would disagree with you, myself included. You might not find it fun or challenging, but that doesn't mean others don't. Yet, you choose to resort to insulting again instead of just accepting that you can be wrong.
As for you bashing Blizzard, I'm a fan of Blizzard and their games. Of course it offends me when you make baseless claims and insult a company that I have great respect for. I'm going to respond to such claims as well. Blizzard has never said players cannot think for themselves. In fact, the design of Diablo 3 encourages players to experiment and test things out for themselves, while Diablo 2's design encouraged players to follow cookie cutter builds off websites... hrm...
Right LoL has similarities but it is replacement for Diablo style PvP. It is a mini game tops.
Also me bashing Blizzards design theories has nothing to do with you, and Blizzard is free to bring their asses in here and dispute it if they want. They don't need you fighting their battles for them im sure.
Another thing, me calling the community retarded is based off of Blizzard's design theory that players can't think correctly or for themselves, thus retarded.
Anything else buddy?
I think many LoL players would disagree with you, myself included. You might not find it fun or challenging, but that doesn't mean others don't. Yet, you choose to resort to insulting again instead of just accepting that you can be wrong.
As for you bashing Blizzard, I'm a fan of Blizzard and their games. Of course it offends me when you make baseless claims and insult a company that I have great respect for. I'm going to respond to such claims as well. Blizzard has never said players cannot think for themselves. In fact, the design of Diablo 3 encourages players to experiment and test things out for themselves, while Diablo 2's design encouraged players to follow cookie cutter builds off websites... hrm...
Oh...good try except you are wrong...again!
Where to start....
Who did I insult? The LoL players? LoL plays like a mini game version of D2 PvP, if that insults you then im sorry get thicker skin.
If you get upset that I have a hard opinion on how Blizzard is developing this game then im sorry, again get thicker skin.
Diablo 2's design encouraged weak minded individuals to look for "optimal" builds, no half way decent player needed a website to build a lasting character. You and everyone else that claims this has failed on all accounts to prove me wrong on this either. Same goes for PvP in Diablo 2. You all claim broken and non skilled, yet have no evidence of it while I can provide essays for my side. Please pick a new topic to cry about.
Also I have created websites and done programming. I make changes at finished points in all of my work and I am a novice at best, and even I can do it without much problem. Are you telling me that designing an already designed UI and designing a few extra letters is going to put Blizzard under or destroy any PvM plans they have?
The PvM players are more important in Blizzard's eyes. No offence to you intended but the game's focus is co~op play. Even Arena will have a strong co~op focus with Team vs Team. So yes, a PvM player is more important when the game in question is focused around PvM and co~op play.
I love how you cannot seem to post without resorting to insults and harassment. Quite surprised you haven't been banned from the forums yet, to be honest.
As for the point presented in your statement, you're very correct to say Blizzard should not crap on a big part of their playerbase (which I'll admit PvP'ers definitely are).
However, what we in all probability will fundamentally disagree on, is wether or not they are "crapping" on the PvP playerbase. Blizzard being Blizzard has made decisions to form this game. These decisions are influenced, but not pushed, by what was available in Diablo 2. I have absolutely no doubt that they have experimented with open world PvP, in the form of hostiling, per Diablo 2 example. For the same reason they cannot impress upon us how hard inferno will be, or how awesome the storyline will be, they cannot fully explain why this did not work as well as we all might have hoped.
As for the E-sport factor many are asking for, there are other objections I've already posted about in another thread. It comes down to that if they redesign every character to have a balanced PvP version of it, it would go far beyond the scope of messing around with crowd control timers, to the point where people have to relearn an essentially new class when they decide to PvP. This would make it extremely new player unfriendly, which simply is not the type of game Blizzard is willing to release.
I hope I made some sense, somewhere in this post. ^^
Really cause from your posts I'd expect that you consider everyone beneath you. Now as for the argument yup PvM in a PvM game is more important than a 'real' Pvper. Especially one that mostly insults the game and anyone that holds a view other than your own.
Well let's see, I didn't insult anyone directly nor did I say anything that should be taken as hateful. Also, ok so you are the majority (In your eyes), great so you should get 100% of the attention correct? Why not just remove PvP period? I mean think of all of the design resources and time you get to save!
Here let me try:
I own you in PvP, thus that means that I own you period in Diablo, thus that means I am more important. Because where as I own you, you quit and I stay, thus I am important. Well that just sounds dumb.....
I wish I could drink the kool-aid and just blindly follow a flowchart on how to have fun in a game like everyone else here. Teach me please!
Hrm, as I've played League of Legends since beta...I'll disagree that it is not fast paced. As for it not being like PvP in Diablo 3? Team vs Team Arena with 6 skills max? LoL has 4 skills and is team based... hrm.. seems quite similar to me actually.
So.. calling people carebears, bashing Blizzard, calling the community retards, etc.. Not insults right?
As for the majority...funny thing...a lot of the PvM players are actually interested in Arena. So seems that PvP is a good goal as a side option. However, I do think that they could just opt out of releasing PvP and still sell the game well. I mean, look... they kinda are already doing that.
This entire discussion has become one knee-jerk reaction after another. Really, why are we taking sides in this discussion? Why does everyone need to be either for or against PvP? I'm personally entirely for the implementation of a fun PvP arena. Customization of how these arena's work sounds interesting and workable to me. Open game consentual duelling might be an option, if the interaction with the open world doesn't make it gimped. We're in no position to decide that one, since we don't know the game enough. E-sports has some definit downsides for PvM though, so I would say that's not a very good idea.
Also me bashing Blizzards design theories has nothing to do with you, and Blizzard is free to bring their asses in here and dispute it if they want. They don't need you fighting their battles for them im sure.
Another thing, me calling the community retarded is based off of Blizzard's design theory that players can't think correctly or for themselves, thus retarded.
Anything else buddy?
"Never argue with an idiot, for they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience." - Mark Twain
He disagrees with your attack on Blizzard, and must therefore be a Blizzard fanboy. This argument makes me seize all potentially fruitfull discussion you could have had with me on these boards. Goodbye =)
I think many LoL players would disagree with you, myself included. You might not find it fun or challenging, but that doesn't mean others don't. Yet, you choose to resort to insulting again instead of just accepting that you can be wrong.
As for you bashing Blizzard, I'm a fan of Blizzard and their games. Of course it offends me when you make baseless claims and insult a company that I have great respect for. I'm going to respond to such claims as well. Blizzard has never said players cannot think for themselves. In fact, the design of Diablo 3 encourages players to experiment and test things out for themselves, while Diablo 2's design encouraged players to follow cookie cutter builds off websites... hrm...
Where to start....
Who did I insult? The LoL players? LoL plays like a mini game version of D2 PvP, if that insults you then im sorry get thicker skin.
If you get upset that I have a hard opinion on how Blizzard is developing this game then im sorry, again get thicker skin.
Diablo 2's design encouraged weak minded individuals to look for "optimal" builds, no half way decent player needed a website to build a lasting character. You and everyone else that claims this has failed on all accounts to prove me wrong on this either. Same goes for PvP in Diablo 2. You all claim broken and non skilled, yet have no evidence of it while I can provide essays for my side. Please pick a new topic to cry about.