Ha let me guess, you don't play any RPG games do you? In fact I am willing to bet you don't make any thought out choices in life period do you? Wouldn't wanna think about anything after all.
So, aiming a direct insult at me now?
Oh no, no insult. Wouldn't want you to tattle on me or anything.
Just pointing out fact that you are apparently against any choices in life or video games that have a real impact on your character. I take it by your response that I am correct though.
Now how do you fix them? Balance them, simple. Strength will increase X and increase it by X. Where as Dex increases X and increases it by X. Mess with the variables and you can fix stats to where they are important and lessen cookie cutter builds. Just throwing them out and saying well 12 years later people just followed a similar path is not a brilliant design choice at all, I call it lazy is anything.
You're 'fix' doesn't fix the issue of trapping people in a build that might end up causing the player to be forced to restart in order to progress. That kind of gameplay isn't fun for the majority. It also doesn't allow for fluid experimentation and essentially causes people to go back to external websites to plan builds. No, the current system is much better. Please read the other threads on the issue if you need more reasons.
Ha let me guess, you don't play any RPG games do you? In fact I am willing to bet you don't make any thought out choices in life period do you? Wouldn't wanna think about anything after all.
I played d2 at release, I was 11. I had NO PROBLEM learning ANYTHING in that game. So has society just gotten really fucking dumb in the last 12 years?
Given your posts, perhaps society has just gotten that dumb. I mean, you cannot accept the possibility that you're wrong, or that the game might not have been made for players like yourself. So... maybe...
Oh and I see D2's faults, there are mechanics and systems that can be done better. So instead of doing that and improving on them, they just say "screw it" and toss em out and give everything out for free. Cause that is a great designer there! I should get a degree in design, I can easily toss every mechanic out of a game and give everything out for free with no problem, then ill hold a press conference and say "Well...people are dumb and it all amounted to this point after 12 years of time, so we think it is better if we just take away all of your options." Ill be so successful.
Are you really saying that, stats which provide real benefits that you can put in yourself to customize your character are inferior to having them spoon fed to you because you lack the intelligence to play your character how you built him?
Are you saying that giving all skills out for free is better design then planning out your characters abilities and making them unique by adding 1-5 skill points per skill and offering more then 6 skills?
Do you actually read your own posts? I mean...wow. Just wow...
How did stats provide meaningful choices in Diablo 2? Answer...they didn't. It was str to use gear, dex for high block and rest in vit. This wasn't a choice, it was a potential trap for anyone that wasn't informed ahead of time. How would you propose they fix stat points? Seems that they did a pretty good job by still letting you influence stats by gear. In addition, by moving stats to gear...they allow people to experiment with stats without requiring remaking their character. This benefits casual players greatly and as the game is focused around a more casual audience...seems like they hit their mark.
There are entire threads dedicated to this topic and they've explained pretty well why you're wrong though. So that's as far as I'll go into it here.
After this im done discussing it in this thread.
Lets see, you were by no means REQUIRED to put enough str for gear and enough dex for block and rest vitality. You can make PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of viable PvM and PvP builds with out this design formula. Maybe you lacked the skill or the creativity to do so, that is on you not me.
Now how do you fix them? Balance them, simple. Strength will increase X and increase it by X. Where as Dex increases X and increases it by X. Mess with the variables and you can fix stats to where they are important and lessen cookie cutter builds. Just throwing them out and saying well 12 years later people just followed a similar path is not a brilliant design choice at all, I call it lazy is anything.
Wouldn't need to match make a 1v7. I would invite all of them into the game. Doesn't even have to be 1v7 could be 1v4 like they stated. Either way I have options and that is what is important.
How did they dumb down the game? Can you make any errors? Is there any wrong answer or any answer that could make you have to actually learn from it? No. That is great for the casual crowd, but the crowd that will stay around longer then a year or normal mode will be out because the shit will just get stagnant.
There is no theorycrafting, there is no testing, there is little learning or depth really. They claim they have all of this depth and hard to master BS but that is a lie. No depth involved in "Here have every skill for free and all variations too, oh stats? Don't worry about that since we all sucked to bad to actually make stats more important we just give you those for free too!". If that is the game you want to play forever, sure have at it. Ill stomp that shit easy mode game and be out stealing your cash before you even hit NM.
Well, even custom game system itself requires a UI design, game system for the custom games (as it wouldn't use the same queue). Not saying it cannot happen, just stating that it isn't trivial to add. It does actually take decent resources to make happen.
You need to be able to make mistakes for a game to not be 'dumbed down'? Quite a few of Diablo 2's mechanics were BAD design decisions. Statistics weren't a choice for anyone that understood how the game worked. Instead, they were a trap for new players that essentially forced players to check external websites to play. That's not good gameplay, that's BAD gameplay. They didn't dumb it down, they improved based on their mistakes.
You're just a bitter player who played Diablo 2 so much that you're blind to it's faults.
I played d2 at release, I was 11. I had NO PROBLEM learning ANYTHING in that game. So has society just gotten really fucking dumb in the last 12 years?
Oh and I see D2's faults, there are mechanics and systems that can be done better. So instead of doing that and improving on them, they just say "screw it" and toss em out and give everything out for free. Cause that is a great designer there! I should get a degree in design, I can easily toss every mechanic out of a game and give everything out for free with no problem, then ill hold a press conference and say "Well...people are dumb and it all amounted to this point after 12 years of time, so we think it is better if we just take away all of your options." Ill be so successful.
Are you really saying that, stats which provide real benefits that you can put in yourself to customize your character are inferior to having them spoon fed to you because you lack the intelligence to play your character how you built him?
Are you saying that giving all skills out for free is better design then planning out your characters abilities and making them unique by adding 1-5 skill points per skill and offering more then 6 skills?
Well obviously 1v7 wouldn't be involved in matchmaking. Any 1v2+ wouldn't be.
Next, I am not looking at Diablo 3 as a hardcore PvP game. I just want the options I have always had in Diablo. A game where I play how I want and make my own fun. A sandbox type game if you will, I can play the trade market, I can play the PvM content, or I can PvP. I had all of these options in every single Diablo thus far, and now I don't? I am forced to have my hands tied and be told how to play the game, and quite frankly I don't like that. I am not a retard, and it saddens me that such a great company has to dumb their mechanics down for 3rd graders because they have a reading and comprehension problem. You want your hand held buddy, go buy hooked on phonics.
If you want to allow people to join your 1v7 without having to invite them specifically, then yes 1v7 would involve some form of matchmaking.
As for Blizzard 'holding your hand', they aren't. What they are doing is making the game they want to make. This link ends up summarizing their stance on things quite well. Reading those blue posts essentially shows that my stance on things was pretty much right. Even custom PvP matches they stated that they aren't against them, but they are wary of implementing em because of the precedent it sets.
They really didn't dumb the game down though. Arena? Its a matchmaking system to create a fair PvP experience with set rules. Stats? They weren't really a choice in Diablo 2. Skills? You have more skill options now then you did in Diablo 2. Even gear is better in Diablo 2 as they have a formal crafting system which takes items out of the market and allows creating gear that matches your build. How did they dumb down the game? Seems to me all the new systems actually improve the game.
Wouldn't need to match make a 1v7. I would invite all of them into the game. Doesn't even have to be 1v7 could be 1v4 like they stated. Either way I have options and that is what is important.
How did they dumb down the game? Can you make any errors? Is there any wrong answer or any answer that could make you have to actually learn from it? No. That is great for the casual crowd, but the crowd that will stay around longer then a year or normal mode will be out because the shit will just get stagnant.
There is no theorycrafting, there is no testing, there is little learning or depth really. They claim they have all of this depth and hard to master BS but that is a lie. No depth involved in "Here have every skill for free and all variations too, oh stats? Don't worry about that since we all sucked to bad to actually make stats more important we just give you those for free too!". If that is the game you want to play forever, sure have at it. Ill stomp that shit easy mode game and be out stealing your cash before you even hit NM.
Ok now you have said you were a game developer before correct? How much actual real code would go into coding in 1v1 - 1v7 in a system that already takes 3v3 and 4v4. Seems like it is pretty basic code at best to change a few variables. Their game testers can probably handle such a job.
Its not trivial. You have to develop user interfaces, matchmaking systems, etc to handle the various game~modes. Considering that in any large company interface design can take a week to a month (due to going from department to department), just the design for the interface could take a month (maybe more even), that's not counting any coding.
In addition, a 1v7 system isn't something they are ever bound to do. This is because the goal of Blizzards PvP is fair matches. You're not meant to go up against 7 players by yourself. Matchmaking matches you against equal gear and skill, so it would be counter productive to put in such a mode.
As far as custom games breaking open this gateway to esports, it might but I doubt it is nearly as dramatic as you and Blizzard are trying to make it out to be. The players balanced D2 PvP by ourselves, and we will do the exact same for D3 PvP if needed. Each realm had their own major PvP site/community, and not once did I hear complaints for balance or any issues from USEast. Europe was supposed to be just as big if not bigger then East and I doubt they complained either. Players arn't retarded like Blizzard likes to say we are, we took their neglected game D2 and turned it into something amazing for a long time. They did little to nothing to support the game aside from an expansion and a few cheesy sad PvM events that were coded by glorified game testers.
I love how bitter you are towards Blizzard, yet you want to keep playing their games. Blizzard doesn't think their players are retarded. As much as you might not like hearing it...Blizzard isn't designing this game for people like you. That's really the main reason you're having so many problems with things. The game is designed more for people like myself. Its a co~op game with optional casual PvP and as such a game, they've done a great job.
If you keep looking at the game as a hardcore competitive PvP player you are going to be disappointed because that's just not what the game is. This is why I've suggested either try accept the game for what it is, or just don't buy it. Expecting them to change the game towards competitive gameplay is only going to have you disappointed as doing such would be counter productive given the current design of the game.
Well obviously 1v7 wouldn't be involved in matchmaking. Any 1v2+ wouldn't be.
Next, I am not looking at Diablo 3 as a hardcore PvP game. I just want the options I have always had in Diablo. A game where I play how I want and make my own fun. A sandbox type game if you will, I can play the trade market, I can play the PvM content, or I can PvP. I had all of these options in every single Diablo thus far, and now I don't? I am forced to have my hands tied and be told how to play the game, and quite frankly I don't like that. I am not a retard, and it saddens me that such a great company has to dumb their mechanics down for 3rd graders because they have a reading and comprehension problem. You want your hand held buddy, go buy hooked on phonics.
Why do you think I want Blizzard to make diablo 3 as an e-sport? I do not expect them to make diablo 3 something else than it will be. I stated in my previous post that they do not need to make diablo 3 competitive by design. They should give us tools to play it how we want. Custom arena games is such a tool.
Random casual training mode as only option is a bad design.
You contradict yourself in your first two statements. Blizzard has outright stated that they will not be making Diablo 3 an eSport. So in order for them to make it one, they would have to make it something it is not. Adding a ton of PvP custom options would be a sizable development effort that would only benefit competitive play (generally anyways). Since the developers do not want to focus development on eSport~related features, it seems rather counter productive for them to implement the features you want.
Casual PvP isn't a bad game design if the goal is to just have fun. Since that seems to be the goal, they seem to have actually hit the mark with their design.
He clearly just said he doesn't want D3 to be an esport...yet you try and call him out and say he wants an esport?
Ok now you have said you were a game developer before correct? How much actual real code would go into coding in 1v1 - 1v7 in a system that already takes 3v3 and 4v4. Seems like it is pretty basic code at best to change a few variables. Their game testers can probably handle such a job.
As far as custom games breaking open this gateway to esports, it might but I doubt it is nearly as dramatic as you and Blizzard are trying to make it out to be. The players balanced D2 PvP by ourselves, and we will do the exact same for D3 PvP if needed. Each realm had their own major PvP site/community, and not once did I hear complaints for balance or any issues from USEast. Europe was supposed to be just as big if not bigger then East and I doubt they complained either. Players arn't retarded like Blizzard likes to say we are, we took their neglected game D2 and turned it into something amazing for a long time. They did little to nothing to support the game aside from an expansion and a few cheesy sad PvM events that were coded by glorified game testers.
How do people expect this game to be E-sport worthy when we have the RMAH?
Do you expect Blizzard to waste time and resources to make PvP-only gear? How would that work? Would it be binded to the character once earned through PvP?
RMAH has no effect on high end PvP. It didn't in D2 and it won't here.
Diablo would be a difficult game to make into an esport because it was largely depend on the community supporting it to that level and everyone would have to have their guys all set and good to go.
Is it possible? Yes but it would take the work of a lot of amazing players to host things and get it rolling. If you are interested in making Diablo an esport pay attention to the fighting game community. They work their asses off to make it what it is, and are just now starting to get recognition for it. It ain't easy, but it is possible.
I am a very competitive person when I comes to gaming (it is acutely the only time). I have played the PvP system at last years Blizzconand it was great. It was fun, balanced, very smooth and fun to watch. To the PvE'ers, you have almost a whole year (if not longer) to have it your way. When the PvP is implemented it will be back to this, non-stop confrontation. Blizzard being the referee I would say you won this round, but we will be back. In the mean-time let us PvP'ers discuss it among our selfs. Unless you have something constructive to say (criticism or not) because to me it seams like everybody is running in circles. TO THOES THAT DO, stop acting like you know anything and being so absolutist (like saying things like "no" and "never", it just bugs me and I think it is the biggest reason for all of these arguments, other-wise they would all be heathy arguments).
So you want the more PvE focused players to leave this forum because why? Our opinions are just as valid as yours. In fact, since most of the PvP players posting here are competitive PvP players from Diablo 2 that don't fit into the target audience of Diablo 3. This means that people like myself that are interested in casual PvP actually have more reasons to be posting then you do.
Perhaps if the PvP side would stop trying to shove competitive PvP into a casual PvP game, you'd hear less complaints from the more casual players. I can accept additional Arena modes. Hell, I can even accept private Arenas. I cannot accept people trying to sit here and complain about Diablo 3 PvP being terrible because they aren't going competitive, complaining Blizzard is terrible, etc.
I like the game that Diablo 3 has become and I actually am interested in it's PvP. So no, I'm not going to stop posting. Perhaps you guys can start posting GOOD suggestions given the current design of the game.
Dude give it up, you will never win and you will never play a non competitive Diablo haha. The community will not let it happen. Only way to end this is to see when they release Arena, if you are even playing by then. I am sure the community will of already gotten to you in PvM games. In which case you will say "Oh it is just those meany PvP'ers in here because we gave them nowhere else to go!" then to realize that no...those players are everywhere PvM and PvP, and that is Diablo in a nutshell...Enjoy.
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Just pointing out fact that you are apparently against any choices in life or video games that have a real impact on your character. I take it by your response that I am correct though.
Lets see, you were by no means REQUIRED to put enough str for gear and enough dex for block and rest vitality. You can make PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of viable PvM and PvP builds with out this design formula. Maybe you lacked the skill or the creativity to do so, that is on you not me.
Now how do you fix them? Balance them, simple. Strength will increase X and increase it by X. Where as Dex increases X and increases it by X. Mess with the variables and you can fix stats to where they are important and lessen cookie cutter builds. Just throwing them out and saying well 12 years later people just followed a similar path is not a brilliant design choice at all, I call it lazy is anything.
Oh and I see D2's faults, there are mechanics and systems that can be done better. So instead of doing that and improving on them, they just say "screw it" and toss em out and give everything out for free. Cause that is a great designer there! I should get a degree in design, I can easily toss every mechanic out of a game and give everything out for free with no problem, then ill hold a press conference and say "Well...people are dumb and it all amounted to this point after 12 years of time, so we think it is better if we just take away all of your options." Ill be so successful.
Are you really saying that, stats which provide real benefits that you can put in yourself to customize your character are inferior to having them spoon fed to you because you lack the intelligence to play your character how you built him?
Are you saying that giving all skills out for free is better design then planning out your characters abilities and making them unique by adding 1-5 skill points per skill and offering more then 6 skills?
How did they dumb down the game? Can you make any errors? Is there any wrong answer or any answer that could make you have to actually learn from it? No. That is great for the casual crowd, but the crowd that will stay around longer then a year or normal mode will be out because the shit will just get stagnant.
There is no theorycrafting, there is no testing, there is little learning or depth really. They claim they have all of this depth and hard to master BS but that is a lie. No depth involved in "Here have every skill for free and all variations too, oh stats? Don't worry about that since we all sucked to bad to actually make stats more important we just give you those for free too!". If that is the game you want to play forever, sure have at it. Ill stomp that shit easy mode game and be out stealing your cash before you even hit NM.
Next, I am not looking at Diablo 3 as a hardcore PvP game. I just want the options I have always had in Diablo. A game where I play how I want and make my own fun. A sandbox type game if you will, I can play the trade market, I can play the PvM content, or I can PvP. I had all of these options in every single Diablo thus far, and now I don't? I am forced to have my hands tied and be told how to play the game, and quite frankly I don't like that. I am not a retard, and it saddens me that such a great company has to dumb their mechanics down for 3rd graders because they have a reading and comprehension problem. You want your hand held buddy, go buy hooked on phonics.
Ok now you have said you were a game developer before correct? How much actual real code would go into coding in 1v1 - 1v7 in a system that already takes 3v3 and 4v4. Seems like it is pretty basic code at best to change a few variables. Their game testers can probably handle such a job.
As far as custom games breaking open this gateway to esports, it might but I doubt it is nearly as dramatic as you and Blizzard are trying to make it out to be. The players balanced D2 PvP by ourselves, and we will do the exact same for D3 PvP if needed. Each realm had their own major PvP site/community, and not once did I hear complaints for balance or any issues from USEast. Europe was supposed to be just as big if not bigger then East and I doubt they complained either. Players arn't retarded like Blizzard likes to say we are, we took their neglected game D2 and turned it into something amazing for a long time. They did little to nothing to support the game aside from an expansion and a few cheesy sad PvM events that were coded by glorified game testers.
Diablo would be a difficult game to make into an esport because it was largely depend on the community supporting it to that level and everyone would have to have their guys all set and good to go.
Is it possible? Yes but it would take the work of a lot of amazing players to host things and get it rolling. If you are interested in making Diablo an esport pay attention to the fighting game community. They work their asses off to make it what it is, and are just now starting to get recognition for it. It ain't easy, but it is possible.