Wasn't the argument that it would be too hard to do the animation for the cannon? Why is this being held against the cannon and not the crossbow?
I don't know. I am not the one on trial here. My hip hurts, I'm in the middle of cooking a turkey, I got warrantee cards to fill out. I am not just making up excuses. Oh alright I talk.
It requires more time and effort. It's easier to forget the whole thing. It's a minor thing that most designers do not consider, but despite multiple discussions by fans, it will never properly be implemented. Not in an RPG, this is not some FPS like well all of them or RTS like AOE III.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
They don't show the animations for loading the crossbow/bow do they? :confused:
They do to a certain extent with bows, not so much crossbows, as it takes 4 times as long to reload a crossbow than it does a bow.
The action of firing an arrow from a bow leaves one hand virtually next to the quiver to grab the next arrow to be fired.
The only animation you got was the drawback, the split second of an empty bow then the drawback again.
It's too hard to do the animation for reloading a crossbow, what with you having to put you foot in the hoop, load in the bolt turn the cranks to put tension on the spring.
So they left it out I guess, same with loading and reloading muskets in WOW. There is no loading of the wad, the powder keg sometimes it was a sealed cloth bag with power in it, other times they just poured powder straight down the barrel, the second wad, the steel bearing bullet, and there is no ram to make sure it's all packed in nicely. I do not even recall any lighting of a fuse in WOW.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
My point was, the armor used during the height of guns is a far cry from the armor used at the hieght of the majority of the weapons found in Diablo.
As Diablo is still in the throws of the sword and shield, the armor is protrayed accordingly. Which is good.
If they bring in guns, something they are actually free to do by the way, I think armor will change too. I don't like the look of those 16th, 17th century armors. They are not Diablo, or what I think of when I think of Diablo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
But not always, as evident in the same post. Leatherclad sowrd weilders.
I don't think guns should be in any medieval fantasy genre game.
Generally I would agree. But then you have things like Age of Empires II: Age of Kings. Now that actually goes up to the years almost immidiately prior to the Reneissence, and guns, at least primative ones, are in Europe at this time. And in huge numbers. This is almost right before armor gets redesigned to withstand gun shot. Which I hate as it looks silly.
It looks like this
I miss this sort of armor
As soon as guns came in, armor got weirdo. Then they lost it all together as bullets went through armor regardless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
IF they do put them in, fine, I might try them out, but will probably not even use them. I like hacking evil to pieces with a sword rather than standing back and shooting evil. Unless it's with a spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I just thought it ought to be discussed because I want to know what others think, but also discuss possabilities, not create a little fanboy circle.
It is something that should be discussed, however, the thread creator should be aware who uses this site, I tried to argue against guns, with coherency and logic. However I am the minority here. Expect a lot of name calling and "oh go play HG: L and/or WOW." And points that make no sense, or add no value to the disscussion. Such is the nature of a forum.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
No I can't say that I do, nor do I care for them in Diablo.
Yes!! Bring it on!
URGH!!! That we can do without.
And it gets worse! Much worse!!!!
I do not want to see these things in Diablo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Instead of gunpowder, they have vials filled with liquid put into the chamber of the rifle. A hammer directly hits the vial, causing it to explode, throwing the steel ball down the barrel.
The problem with breaking a vial is the contents tend to go everywhere, left, right, down, forwards, backwards (occassionally up), it's hard to make sure it goes in one direction, Hard but not impossible. after all, a gun or rocket forces the expolsion only one one, but then again, it is not make of a breakable sustance.
A vial used in a throwing potion is designed to break on impact, and in all probability, break horribly, so even the vial itself is a weapon, nice shars of glass flying into someone's eye can do some real damage you know.
You could probably have a tiny vial in a chamber, but it's easier to do something a lot more primative.
like how a cap gun works. Hammer makes a spark, ignites to chemicals. heck you can do that without the casing and hammer. the ingridients which are largely Sulfur, Charcoal and Potassium Nitrate (not sure all those are in Sanctuary though Well just the last one, if you have a volcano you have sulfur, and if you have a burn something you have charcoal (eventually)), and add the tiniest flame to it. And as you want to be at least a short distance away you need a fuse or wick. some cloth or rope works fine.
But creating the potion isn't advanced? How do they know what chemicals they're dealing with? Before throwing the potion it has to be made.
I believe the manual says those potion you find were actually made by people who know what they are doing, probably through trial and error (bad errors no doubt, few missing limbs and what not).
Quote from Arreat Summit/Manual »
Beneficial potions of antidote and thawing should not be confused with the poisonous and volatile throwing potions. The grenade-like throwing potions cannot be consumed. Alchemists are careful to mark their concoctions properly to avoid accidents
As far back as the Sin War, alchemical mages have studied the properties of the elements and combined them in various ways. Eventually, the mages developed some extremely toxic and volatile liquids. Many of these substances have proven to be effective weapons when placed in glass bottles and lobbed from a distance into groups of enemies. Some of these volatile grenades explode into fireballs when they shatter upon the ground. Others release thick clouds of toxic fumes that quickly poison and weaken the opponents enveloped within them.
Technological, the people of Sanctuary are probably not far off of being able to make guns, but I do not think we will see them for a while yet in this series. One day maybe, but while it maintains it's classic medieval fantasy feel and look, as opposed to a reneissence look and feel, I wouldn't expect to see them any time soon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
The potions are just chemical reactions. Not really the same as guns at all.
In essence a gun is a chemical reaction. It just requires an mechanical device to initiate it, and with a device that points the reaction in one direction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Would you prefer I call you a derogitory term for wanting guns in D3, and scream at the top of my lungs why they are silly, or would you prefer I try come up with a reasonable explanation for as to why there should not be guns in D3. Your call dude.
Fulminating potion?
Exploding potion?
But yeah, the day Diablo introduces guns, :mad:
A glass vial that cotains a volitile liquid is a far cry from fireworks.
Molotov Cocktail is very similar to the throwing potions in Diablo, but is nothing like a Sky Rocket, a fore runner for the Gun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I would have to say that, if anything, magic would enhance the development of technology.
Highly likely, and in all probablibity, would happen.
But I still fail to see how that would make a gun.
fuse lights a charge, which causes an explosion (and with primative guns, lots and lots of smoke), the explosion forces a projectile out a long steel tube.
Guns don't appear in medieval times, or at least if they do, it's right at the end, right before the Reneissance kicks in with people going nutzo to create weirdo and fantasical stuff, Leonardo's flying machine and submarine, etc.
Diablo is right in the heart of what would be considered Medieval, or Middle Age. being that it is set in the equivlent of the 13th century Europe, there is still at least another 300 years before the arrival of anything resembling the gun as a weapon of war.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Diablo also takes place with little imps throwing fire and zombies walking around.. and GUNS are more far fetched? I don't think guns should be in the game either but really.. think about what you're saying. They can create an ice storm in the sky but by god damnit they can't invent a musket.
I did think about.
The ability to cast magic, and the ability to make guns are two completely different things.
Guns evolved from rockets, which evolved from fire works.
I didn't see much fire works in Diablo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Diablo is set in 1265, 20 years later is 1285. That's still the 13th century, guns weren't mainstream till about the 17th century. The were in China in the 10th Century, but that China.
Diablo seems to mirror our world timeline wise, what is our 13th century (Europe) seem to be what Sanctuary's 13th century is.
It one of the few mirroring of our world the Diablo series actually does. Sure other medieval fantasy games mirror our world, but so few mirror the dates. Their year 1265 is our year 1265 (AD).
Larzuk also describes a Hot Air Balloon, made of sheep skin, while airships are no stranger in Medieval fantasy games (see Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale), I doubt we will see that either.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
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I don't know. I am not the one on trial here. My hip hurts, I'm in the middle of cooking a turkey, I got warrantee cards to fill out. I am not just making up excuses. Oh alright I talk.
It requires more time and effort. It's easier to forget the whole thing. It's a minor thing that most designers do not consider, but despite multiple discussions by fans, it will never properly be implemented. Not in an RPG, this is not some FPS like well all of them or RTS like AOE III.
The action of firing an arrow from a bow leaves one hand virtually next to the quiver to grab the next arrow to be fired.
The only animation you got was the drawback, the split second of an empty bow then the drawback again.
It's too hard to do the animation for reloading a crossbow, what with you having to put you foot in the hoop, load in the bolt turn the cranks to put tension on the spring.
So they left it out I guess, same with loading and reloading muskets in WOW. There is no loading of the wad, the powder keg sometimes it was a sealed cloth bag with power in it, other times they just poured powder straight down the barrel, the second wad, the steel bearing bullet, and there is no ram to make sure it's all packed in nicely. I do not even recall any lighting of a fuse in WOW.
As Diablo is still in the throws of the sword and shield, the armor is protrayed accordingly. Which is good.
If they bring in guns, something they are actually free to do by the way, I think armor will change too. I don't like the look of those 16th, 17th century armors. They are not Diablo, or what I think of when I think of Diablo.
See previous page. Post #47.
But not always, as evident in the same post. Leatherclad sowrd weilders.
Generally I would agree. But then you have things like Age of Empires II: Age of Kings. Now that actually goes up to the years almost immidiately prior to the Reneissence, and guns, at least primative ones, are in Europe at this time. And in huge numbers. This is almost right before armor gets redesigned to withstand gun shot. Which I hate as it looks silly.
It looks like this
I miss this sort of armor
As soon as guns came in, armor got weirdo. Then they lost it all together as bullets went through armor regardless.
IF they do put them in, fine, I might try them out, but will probably not even use them. I like hacking evil to pieces with a sword rather than standing back and shooting evil. Unless it's with a spell.
It is something that should be discussed, however, the thread creator should be aware who uses this site, I tried to argue against guns, with coherency and logic. However I am the minority here. Expect a lot of name calling and "oh go play HG: L and/or WOW." And points that make no sense, or add no value to the disscussion. Such is the nature of a forum.
Yes!! Bring it on!
URGH!!! That we can do without.
And it gets worse! Much worse!!!!
I do not want to see these things in Diablo.
The problem with breaking a vial is the contents tend to go everywhere, left, right, down, forwards, backwards (occassionally up), it's hard to make sure it goes in one direction, Hard but not impossible. after all, a gun or rocket forces the expolsion only one one, but then again, it is not make of a breakable sustance.
A vial used in a throwing potion is designed to break on impact, and in all probability, break horribly, so even the vial itself is a weapon, nice shars of glass flying into someone's eye can do some real damage you know.
You could probably have a tiny vial in a chamber, but it's easier to do something a lot more primative.
like how a cap gun works. Hammer makes a spark, ignites to chemicals. heck you can do that without the casing and hammer. the ingridients which are largely Sulfur, Charcoal and Potassium Nitrate (not sure all those are in Sanctuary though Well just the last one, if you have a volcano you have sulfur, and if you have a burn something you have charcoal (eventually)), and add the tiniest flame to it. And as you want to be at least a short distance away you need a fuse or wick. some cloth or rope works fine.
I believe the manual says those potion you find were actually made by people who know what they are doing, probably through trial and error (bad errors no doubt, few missing limbs and what not).
Technological, the people of Sanctuary are probably not far off of being able to make guns, but I do not think we will see them for a while yet in this series. One day maybe, but while it maintains it's classic medieval fantasy feel and look, as opposed to a reneissence look and feel, I wouldn't expect to see them any time soon.
In essence a gun is a chemical reaction. It just requires an mechanical device to initiate it, and with a device that points the reaction in one direction.
A glass vial that cotains a volitile liquid is a far cry from fireworks.
Molotov Cocktail is very similar to the throwing potions in Diablo, but is nothing like a Sky Rocket, a fore runner for the Gun.
Highly likely, and in all probablibity, would happen.
But I still fail to see how that would make a gun.
fuse lights a charge, which causes an explosion (and with primative guns, lots and lots of smoke), the explosion forces a projectile out a long steel tube.
Guns don't appear in medieval times, or at least if they do, it's right at the end, right before the Reneissance kicks in with people going nutzo to create weirdo and fantasical stuff, Leonardo's flying machine and submarine, etc.
Diablo is right in the heart of what would be considered Medieval, or Middle Age. being that it is set in the equivlent of the 13th century Europe, there is still at least another 300 years before the arrival of anything resembling the gun as a weapon of war.
I did think about.
The ability to cast magic, and the ability to make guns are two completely different things.
Guns evolved from rockets, which evolved from fire works.
I didn't see much fire works in Diablo.
Diablo seems to mirror our world timeline wise, what is our 13th century (Europe) seem to be what Sanctuary's 13th century is.
It one of the few mirroring of our world the Diablo series actually does. Sure other medieval fantasy games mirror our world, but so few mirror the dates. Their year 1265 is our year 1265 (AD).
Larzuk also describes a Hot Air Balloon, made of sheep skin, while airships are no stranger in Medieval fantasy games (see Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale), I doubt we will see that either.