Well, as I said a few posts above, I surely would consider running the helmet before (it was good), I wouldn't now. It's not worth a dps slot by any means anymore. And to Filth, you said:
'Firstly, Arcane Orb doesn't need a big explossion and Magic Missile doesn't need to deal AOE damage.
The bubble itself will be our primary source of large radius AOE damage. Throw in some Arcane Orbs to deal with high HP mobs and it's a mighty fine build.'
That is wrong on so many levels Not even on T6 will the bubble be a primary source of damage, 1250%/s can't even compare to 690*6*aps*all the modifiers from magic missile with mirrorball... And about Tal Rasha, it certainly does not look like an auto-win, but the changes are interesting and it's too early to say it's worthless. Maybe there will be a build that can take advantage of this set.
By the way look at how tiny the area of effect of an arcane orb - obliteration is, I knew it was small but did not realise it's THAT small. It's the only rune that can even be compared with mm conflagrate+mirrorball dmg wise but it's just silly how awfully little the explosion is. Don't know how anyone can expect this skill is gonna be viable the way it works.
you will not be able to play neither cindercoat nor magefists with delsere's set, it's a 6 part, and the helmet will be the one which makes time warp all runes.
Plus, there will be other new legendarys, and skill changes/balance. Remember it's a major patch.
You, and everyone else are vastly VASTLY overestimating the value of that helm.
Would you rather have enemies take 10% more damage (additive with force weapon, glass cannon, and most other buffs in the game)?
Or would you rather have 50% more hydra damage?
or would you rather have 20% fire damage and 30% Resource cost reduction?
Actually I thought about it and it does not look that way. The rune we want the most on our slow time is probably casting it wherever we want. So the additional benefits of that helmet are: 3s lower cd, 80% slow instead of 60%, 10% more dmg taken by enemies, 3s (!!!) stun whenever an enemy enters or leaves the bubble and 10% as increase for ppl inside it. If you can manage to stand inside one bubble and shoot to monsters in another, the as+dmg taken buffs are better than 20% fire increase (right now cindercoats reduction does not do anything as we won't be using arcane power, this will hopefully change), you already have 20 from sojand maybe 20 from devastator which along with the sunkeeper are looking like bis weapons for mm fire build right now, so it actually is a 14% dmg increase and it probably won't work on the 1250/s bubble dmg (which is not that high but still it's some damage). I'm not saying the helmet will be absolute bis and nothing can even compare but right now I would not use magefist or cindercoat, which are the best fire items and I found very good ones, instead of it with delsere. The added utility is too much. Well, we have to wait for the ptr anyway ^^
Reduction of cost would suck imo, mm would still be much better (100% reduction is better than any other value;D ). What would you say about 'arcane orb deals up to 100% (or even more) increased damage based on the distance travelled' legendary power? It would require good positioning, would compliment each other nicely with Zeis Stone, and would actually make the spell viable in terms of dmg output when combined with delseres.
Hopefully 'soon' actually means soon. I don't ever play ptrs, let us know about everything new ^^ I actually am kind of eager to do some excels and run simulations of new gear setups, if the mechanics are properly described, math is half the game's fun ^^
Damage from hydra is excellent and you only need to cast it once every 15s. It's very much possible that the best offensive setup with delsere will be magic missile - conflagrate (no other rune is even close because conflagrate pierces) and a second skill which spends arcane power. Hydra is awesome, I was around 70th place at the end of first era on wizard leaderboard and used an ancient sparker to get there (not even that well rolled, unfortunately cdr), no T&T though, and I have a very well rolled one. The most powerful (weapon dmg % wise) arcane orb hits for 700% in a very small radius. A single magic missile charge hits for 690%, pierces and leaves a DoT. It also costs nothing and is easily increased (simplicity etc). In current state of those skills I don't believe arcane orb has any way to outperform magic missile if you have a decent mirrorball. And if there is no reason to cast arcane orb, why have it on your bar instead of hydra, which you can leave on the ground and just let it attack?
I thought you are only half-right, and it was I who was wrong, which bothers me a lot, because I checked lots of different sites etc for the dmg formula a and used 'dmg taken by enemies' as a different multiplicator in all (many) of my calculations. And I shouldn't because it actually is added to all the skill increase % bonuses.
BDF2000 the sentence 'The toxin debuff is additive with simplicity's strength, along with force weapon, strongarm bracers, sparkflint, glass cannon and all of those type of buffs.' is not true. Skills that improve your damage(glass cannon) are additive with each other, skills that increase damage taken by enemies (toxin gem) are not counted with them. The pure dmg that you will do with conflagrate magic missiles and 2 APS to a target inside slow time bubble is 6*(230*3*2+130)+1250 = 10310, exactly the number you gave. After adding skill bonuses, ele bonuses and all the other ones, it looks like my ancient mirrorball will be quite useful ^^ It may (MAY, not sure about that) even outperform arcane orb spamming if no orb-improving item comes to existence.
Um actually Hynegards' math is correct in this matter, it's not a 5x multiplier, but a 6x one, exactly like the sunwuko set. It's increased BY that amount (increased by 100% - 2x multiplier, increased by 500% - 6x multiplier)
No, Hynegard is right, it's not 700+15+15 but 700*(1+0.15+0.15), 100% sure. He is wrong by saying "What that means is that Elemental Bonus and Skill Bonus add to each other, not multiply." though, the example that was given was only about elemental dmg (cindercoat with 15% and 20% bracers = 135%, additive elemental bonuses), the formula is dmg*elemental*skill, not dmg*(elemental+skill).
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Well, as I said a few posts above, I surely would consider running the helmet before (it was good), I wouldn't now. It's not worth a dps slot by any means anymore. And to Filth, you said:
'Firstly, Arcane Orb doesn't need a big explossion and Magic Missile doesn't need to deal AOE damage.
The bubble itself will be our primary source of large radius AOE damage. Throw in some Arcane Orbs to deal with high HP mobs and it's a mighty fine build.'
That is wrong on so many levels Not even on T6 will the bubble be a primary source of damage, 1250%/s can't even compare to 690*6*aps*all the modifiers from magic missile with mirrorball... And about Tal Rasha, it certainly does not look like an auto-win, but the changes are interesting and it's too early to say it's worthless. Maybe there will be a build that can take advantage of this set.
Yup. I would not use the helmet now.
By the way look at how tiny the area of effect of an arcane orb - obliteration is, I knew it was small but did not realise it's THAT small. It's the only rune that can even be compared with mm conflagrate+mirrorball dmg wise but it's just silly how awfully little the explosion is. Don't know how anyone can expect this skill is gonna be viable the way it works.
Actually I thought about it and it does not look that way. The rune we want the most on our slow time is probably casting it wherever we want. So the additional benefits of that helmet are: 3s lower cd, 80% slow instead of 60%, 10% more dmg taken by enemies, 3s (!!!) stun whenever an enemy enters or leaves the bubble and 10% as increase for ppl inside it. If you can manage to stand inside one bubble and shoot to monsters in another, the as+dmg taken buffs are better than 20% fire increase (right now cindercoats reduction does not do anything as we won't be using arcane power, this will hopefully change), you already have 20 from sojand maybe 20 from devastator which along with the sunkeeper are looking like bis weapons for mm fire build right now, so it actually is a 14% dmg increase and it probably won't work on the 1250/s bubble dmg (which is not that high but still it's some damage). I'm not saying the helmet will be absolute bis and nothing can even compare but right now I would not use magefist or cindercoat, which are the best fire items and I found very good ones, instead of it with delsere. The added utility is too much. Well, we have to wait for the ptr anyway ^^
Reduction of cost would suck imo, mm would still be much better (100% reduction is better than any other value;D ). What would you say about 'arcane orb deals up to 100% (or even more) increased damage based on the distance travelled' legendary power? It would require good positioning, would compliment each other nicely with Zeis Stone, and would actually make the spell viable in terms of dmg output when combined with delseres.
Well patch 2.2 is most probably coming with S3 but I was talking about the ptr They said the ptr is coming soon.
Hopefully 'soon' actually means soon. I don't ever play ptrs, let us know about everything new ^^ I actually am kind of eager to do some excels and run simulations of new gear setups, if the mechanics are properly described, math is half the game's fun ^^
Damage from hydra is excellent and you only need to cast it once every 15s. It's very much possible that the best offensive setup with delsere will be magic missile - conflagrate (no other rune is even close because conflagrate pierces) and a second skill which spends arcane power. Hydra is awesome, I was around 70th place at the end of first era on wizard leaderboard and used an ancient sparker to get there (not even that well rolled, unfortunately cdr), no T&T though, and I have a very well rolled one. The most powerful (weapon dmg % wise) arcane orb hits for 700% in a very small radius. A single magic missile charge hits for 690%, pierces and leaves a DoT. It also costs nothing and is easily increased (simplicity etc). In current state of those skills I don't believe arcane orb has any way to outperform magic missile if you have a decent mirrorball. And if there is no reason to cast arcane orb, why have it on your bar instead of hydra, which you can leave on the ground and just let it attack?
I thought you are only half-right, and it was I who was wrong, which bothers me a lot, because I checked lots of different sites etc for the dmg formula a and used 'dmg taken by enemies' as a different multiplicator in all (many) of my calculations. And I shouldn't because it actually is added to all the skill increase % bonuses.
BDF2000 the sentence 'The toxin debuff is additive with simplicity's strength, along with force weapon, strongarm bracers, sparkflint, glass cannon and all of those type of buffs.' is not true. Skills that improve your damage(glass cannon) are additive with each other, skills that increase damage taken by enemies (toxin gem) are not counted with them. The pure dmg that you will do with conflagrate magic missiles and 2 APS to a target inside slow time bubble is 6*(230*3*2+130)+1250 = 10310, exactly the number you gave. After adding skill bonuses, ele bonuses and all the other ones, it looks like my ancient mirrorball will be quite useful ^^ It may (MAY, not sure about that) even outperform arcane orb spamming if no orb-improving item comes to existence.
Um actually Hynegards' math is correct in this matter, it's not a 5x multiplier, but a 6x one, exactly like the sunwuko set. It's increased BY that amount (increased by 100% - 2x multiplier, increased by 500% - 6x multiplier)
No, Hynegard is right, it's not 700+15+15 but 700*(1+0.15+0.15), 100% sure. He is wrong by saying "What that means is that Elemental Bonus and Skill Bonus add to each other, not multiply." though, the example that was given was only about elemental dmg (cindercoat with 15% and 20% bracers = 135%, additive elemental bonuses), the formula is dmg*elemental*skill, not dmg*(elemental+skill).