I am posting here because I am somewhat familiar with these forums.
So I'll cut to the chase:
I really wanted Guild Wars 2 to be fun, but I am fairly afraid that it just isn't.
When you first start playing, everything seems great; The graphics are awesome and the visual layout of the interface is good. Everything is bright, luminous and you can just smell "good quality" coming off of your screen.
Honestly, the game feels like it's really high quality from the get-go.
But then...I played for a fair amount of time telling myself that the things I found questionable have their reasoning, or I just need to level up a little more. But at this point I am pretty sure that all those things I found questionable are really just flat out stupid.
There's some very solid asects of this game that should make it into the next 'good' MMO, but my gripes about important things are too much for the small nice things.
My gripes with this game:
Summary
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
Now, don't get me wrong, each class has it's own somewhat unique styles and things it brings to the table. But they really arent enough and they are hardly noticeable. I play a Necromancer level 22, and my uniqueness is supposed to be these "Wellls" to benefit my teammates or debuff enemies. It's okay. However they are extremely fire-and-forget. You just do them. No real regard for why or when.
Other classes have their little buffs as well. I play with a friend who is a Mesmer, and he benefits me in various ways, but nothing I have to pay attention to whatsoever other than perhaps 1 AOE healy thing I should stand in, if it even occurs to me.
However, there's no blatant roles. Healer. DPS. Healer has mega buffs, HoTs and direct-heals. He does these things extremely well. DPS types BETTER stay with that guy if they want to do well. He even better work very hard to pay attention to the important healer aspects. Peeling, line of sight, abilities that require you to pay attention like, let's say, PW: Barrier.
DPS has some very specfic things as well. Slows, well-timed stuns, control over your damage. Stall and stall until you wait for the big moment to kill something. Now, a lot of this is going to be PvP based, but not evrything.
Now, these things are just the TIPS of the ice-bergs. And they dont even remotely exist in GW2. You just "do your thing" and automatically buff others, and "doing your thing" is basically boring in the first place.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
I tried other classes besides my Necromancer to approximately level 10, let's say. But on my Necromancer I can tell you that I don't have to think about what skills I am using, when, where, or why.
All my shit just does something meaningless which will have no effect on the next thing I do. Everything is cooldown based so I just use something when it is "up."
There's no placing a lot of DoTs to get the maximum drain from drain life. There's no freezing enemies so you may shatter them. There's no applying diseases to make your strikes hit harder. Again, just the TIP of the TIP of the ice-berg.
It's just a bunch of cooldown based skills numbered 1 through 5 based on what weapons you use, Oh yeah, and you unlock your approximately 5 sets of these very early, and get to (enjoy?) them from then on. Buttons 6 though 0 unlock slowly over time, and I have to say are very lackluster as well.
On the necromancer 1 through 5 literaly dont matter whatsoever. They are just some lame damage dealers with some slight idea of effecting eachother. Buttons 5 through 0 tend to be my EXTREMELY dumb pets and those "Wells" I mentioned earlier. Again, Wells are just these doofy AOE things I lay down for a pointless effect and are automatic and no one has to have any concern for them whatsoever, besides me, but hardly.
Oh yeah, and every skill looks fucking god-awful. There's hardly any projectile spells, most things just appear at your target instantly; Removing any concept of who shot it at you. Coulda been anybody in that general direction! And there's no ominous and scary shadowbolt coming that seals your competitive loss if you don't fix the problem in .5 seconds.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
For the first approximatey 10 levels, you are in the starter zones which are packed to the brim with zergs doing the public events and quests. So, for the first 10 levels its very hard to tell what you are doing or what you are personally contributing. You might be pretty awesome, and you might be doing fucking nothing at all.
I found myself avoiding people on occasion so that I could see 1v1 in Me vs. Monster, what I am actually doing. That's about when I realized that I don't have to think about my DPS rotation, or think about anything really. Just hit my random cooldown-based skills when they are up and move on....
The idea of public quests and events is nice, but it really just adds to a zergy skill-less feel. Whenever you come up the frequent public events (at which a zerg is usually present) you just say to yourself "okay free EXP, just clock in my 10 minutes of following the zerg around. And it doesnt really matter what I do."
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
There's 8 classes. 5-6 of which are exact WoW ideas. Necro, Elementalist, Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Guardian. Like, really? WHY even do that? Zealot---a cult based class which fuckin prays to Bobbabushka and rains down plagues on the enemy. There, I just came up with a more original idea in literally 15 seconds of thinking.
Now, though the concepts of the classes are *stolen* from WoW. The playstyles feel different because of the GW2 skill-structure. Lol....they feel worse. Do your doofy automatic abilities on cooldowns with no real concern for your own synergy.
Like jesus, I'd hate to keep invoking WoW because there ARE other decent MMO's out there, but it comes to mind to mention my WOTLK rogue. Stack up poisons, keep up slice and dice, put up rupture, use envenom, use tricks of the trade.....Jesus....I could go on but what I've just mentioned is already 15x more thought-requiring than anything in all of GW2.
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
Theres no direct dependancy on any other person. You just do your thing. You don't need a healer, or anything. Just join the zerg and be yourself and go mentally-afk. Now, the overall strategies have room for skill. Allocating your forces, which tend to be massive in WvW. Putting pressure on certain nodes. But it feels much like a general in World War 2. "Hey let me put 1 million dudes here and push this area back..." It doesn't much come down to the individual whatsoever.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
If you're efficient and quick, like me, and you don't like to dilly-daddle around for 15 minutes taking in the scenery and waiting for the next public event, you will be underleveled if you just go along your own races leveling path.
There's zones for each race that follow a leveling structure, but one path of them is not enough to level you in the proper ratio to its growing difficulty.
Now, there's a way around this, by going down 2 different races paths, but when it comes down to it, the zones' content feels very scattered. You do a LOT of running from place to place, then doing a quest for 6 minutes and maybe an event, then more running! And there's this air of....broken-ness...like they fucked up somehow and things arent flowing like they ought to, and you arent getting the experience you deserve.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
Now, SWTOR is a pretty shitty game, but its leveling process the first time around, is fuckin fun. It feels relatively quick, theres a personal storyline thats pretty badass. For my Sith guy it was becoming an apprentice, then discovering a conspiracy around me, then realizing my master is against me, then murdering her.....yata yata. Oh, and you only have the looming notion of 50 levels....GW2 has 80.
In my head, as I level through GW2, I am like "how the fuck am I going to do this for 55 more fucking levels." And why even?
You gain these little trait points (which again add to the automatic-ness) and these points just give you a stat and something passive. "Your debuffs do more damage"......wow innovative.
Then you also gain, whatever they are called, skill points. And with skill points you need 1 of them to unlock a skill for your 6 through 0 buttons, then you need 3, then you need 6, etc....
Oh and by the way, you need to unlock X amount of skills to get to the next tier. On my Necromancer there was one tier that I literally did not like a single skill of. And I probably wont ever use any of those tiers. However, you must spend ur points on them to get to the tier after that.....yay.....
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
At first this game feels like the opposite. A non-sub-fee game that feels like one that DOES have it. But then you pay closer attention. Everything has a bit of an air of cheesy-ness. Plastic-ness. It's like when you buy that Nyko knock-off Xbox controller. It works....and it probably fills the role it needs to perfectly fine until it breaks...but SOMETHING about it....just aint right...
One direct example in GW2 is that everything feels grand and extraordinary, and your character feels like a person right there in front of you. You could push him on the back and he wouldn't move because he's heavy and sturdy and strong.
But then you zoom you camera out and it becomes League of Legends or something....tiny little characters and a distance from the action.
CONCLUSION
This game is really extraordinary and unique in a way I have not seen before. People lie to themselves about it's quality more than I'd ever imagine. They just make this face and say to themselves "Yess....GW2!!....It's good......Yesss.....Goood!!!...."
Something about this game-franchise makes people really want to believe in it and love it. I have hardly seen a bad word spoken about this game in-game, or ......at all. But that's just not possible....
People want it to be good soooo badly. I'm not sure why.
Don't get me wrong, this game has some degree of value, and since there's no sub-fee you feel less guilty playing it once you have paid the retail price. But if you are looking for that next major MMO with "serious" player competitiveness from PvE or PvP, I think you need to take a very hard look at this game and don't give it more credit than it deserves.
To me, it has that kind of rinky-dink fun of Diablo 3 in an MMO wrapping, but Diabo 3 is better in that way. It's got its little quirks and at it's core its really not very complex. *Cast Hydra, Cast Blizzard, run around* But that works and is fun in the context of the diablo world. GW2 does something very simiar to THAT. NOT MLG style PvP or grand 200,000 person streaming PvE.
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
That's true, and for some that's a good thing. There still is very much the possibility of you playing either more supportively or more defensively.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
Did you happen to miss out on traits or skill points you earn with levels? To me that feels like a lot of long term self synergy and variety.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
Maybe in the starting zones but that becomes less apparent as you break away from the crowd. I don't find playing with others a bad thing though in GW2. The fact that you all get exp and your own loot from mobs makes interacting with others rewarding instead of someone just trying to tag your mob or steal your gathering node, you have your own gathering nodes too.
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
No idea what you're talking about here. I've never played a class in any other game like the mesmer.
Sure a lot of archtypes are there though, thief = rogue, warrior = warrior, guardian = paladinish, ranger = hunter, these archtypes are comfortable and cover aspects that most people look for and enjoy.
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
World PvP can be like that if you follow the pack. Last night though me and a group of nine guild mates snuck behind enemy lines and kept a supply point for quite some time which really hindered the enemies ability to defend their forts. I find it really enjoyable with friends but I can agree its easy to get lost in the crowd.
However that's only world vs world PvP, there is still structured PvP which is about like PvP in every other MMO.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
Not sure which idea you mean. The events? Those aren't new ideas, many games have tried that, most notably Rift but this has taken that turd and polished it to a very enjoying nugget of gold.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
If you try to level between just quests and events, yes it will get slow. A good way to speed it up though is by incorporating World VS World PVP, gathering and crafting, or exploring zones fully which you get rewards and exp for.
Crafting can be very tricky because unlike most MMO's you're not encouraged to make the same sword for 15 skill levels, you want to use your materials to make discoveries which are essentially recipes. You are rewarded with a lot more exp for discoveries as well as using less of your valuable crafting materials making the same items repeatedly.
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
Not sure what you mean by this either. I really enjoy the fact it's non-subscription and the fact that I've already sunk 66 hours in and many more to come makes it worth the money to me. That is all really subjective though depending on the person. I haven't seen anything they tried to "fit into a lower budget" though.
I'm having a great time, more so than I expected actually which is a nice feeling.
I want this topic to be read by people. And I don't want it to turn into a 1 on 1 conversation.
But I'll say this:
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
No idea what you're talking about here. I've never played a class in any other game like the mesmer.
Sure a lot of archtypes are there though, thief = rogue, warrior = warrior, guardian = paladinish, ranger = hunter, these archtypes are comfortable and cover aspects that most people look for and enjoy.
This just sounds like the typical Guild Wars 2 self-lie. It's okay because Guild Wars 2 did it! Not someone else...
I don't really see what the point of the thread is... are you trying to convince people it's a bad game? It's really opinion vs. opinion here. As a casual player that doesn't really care for raiding or PVP, I've found GW2 to be a really great game for me. I can run around and collect Vistas, Waypoints, Points of Interests, run into local events and pitch in. I can play for a bit and feel like I've accomplished something towards making my character better. There are dungeons that I haven't touched yet but plan to try one out pretty soon just to see what it's like.
The world is gorgeous and gigantic. I've never played another game with such huge cities to run around in. I've discovered there are a lot of people that roleplay on my server as well, which is pretty awesome. I've stumbled across a few pretty good RP's and just sat around and read what was happening.
I realize the game isn't for everyone. No game is, really. But as a game without a subscription fee, I can see myself playing quite a bit of it, returning to it from time to time if I ever get bored. Much like Diablo 3, which I still enjoy; just have other games I'd rater spend my time in.
Sucks you didn't enjoy it, good luck finding something you do like.
I don't really see what the point of the thread is... are you trying to convince people it's a bad game? It's really opinion vs. opinion here. As a casual player that doesn't really care for raiding or PVP, I've found GW2 to be a really great game for me. I can run around and collect Vistas, Waypoints, Points of Interests, run into local events and pitch in. I can play for a bit and feel like I've accomplished something towards making my character better. There are dungeons that I haven't touched yet but plan to try one out pretty soon just to see what it's like.
The world is gorgeous and gigantic. I've never played another game with such huge cities to run around in. I've discovered there are a lot of people that roleplay on my server as well, which is pretty awesome. I've stumbled across a few pretty good RP's and just sat around and read what was happening.
I realize the game isn't for everyone. No game is, really. But as a game without a subscription fee, I can see myself playing quite a bit of it, returning to it from time to time if I ever get bored. Much like Diablo 3, which I still enjoy; just have other games I'd rater spend my time in.
Sucks you didn't enjoy it, good luck finding something you do like.
The point is to discuss it and perhaps show people the "light" from my perspective.
Do you really enjoy having such a low-depth character? Nothing you do with your character can possibly take much skill or theory. Or theorycrafting for that matter.
I was just working on a thief and it's equally shallow as the necromancer, and actually, its skills are VERY clunky and pointless.
It's about having a fun character to use as you DO improve it. Not just the nice outline of a good game, then no fun roles to play through it.
Also, I really want someone to point out something thats skillful, competitive, deep.
I want to be proven wrong about the overall badness of this game in these aspects because I have nothing to play right now really. I've dominated D3, and I can't really go back to WoW after not playing for so long. It just looks weird now
Well the issue is you keep tossing around all these vague subjective terms like "low depth" "deep" "skillful". I'm not sure what you're looking for. There are no raids if that's what you're looking for. There is PvP that is essentially like every other mmo with PvP
There are dungeons which are pretty difficult and then explorable modes for them which are harder. At level 80 there are world bosses which will function similar to a small raid.
Structured PvP very much takes skill and the traits you can choose and the way you can build your character is very far from "low depth" in my opinion.
Also:
This just sounds like the typical Guild Wars 2 self-lie. It's okay because Guild Wars 2 did it! Not someone else...
All I was saying is pretty much every game has those basic archtypes and that's fine because its what people want for the most part, that's why we keep seeing them. Most people like familiar feeling classes.
You seem dead set on hating the game though for whatever reason I'm not sure. What do you think its lacking? At it's core, not leveling is too slow, etc. Is it some sort of endgame?
So your complaints are boiling down to the lack of variety in spells, now? How many are there truly in a rotation for a game like WoW? You have a select few that you rotate through for "efficiency" to maximize your DPS. Don't try to say you use all of them, because as a rogue I raided most of WotLK spamming 3-4 buttons (maybe 5.) Yes there are a couple utility abilities on top of that like Vanish and what-not. But honestly 60% of the spells you acquire aren't any good for the spec you choose. (i.e. Sinister Strike is useless for Assassination spec which uses Mutilate).
There is a variety of spells in GW2. It just depends what weapon you choose for your "spec." Thief for example can combine different weapons for different combinations of abilities. (i.e. Gun + Dagger). Who's to say what combination is best? It's sort of preference based at first, but eventually I'm sure there will be a "best" combination. Then you have utility abilities to unlock with Trait points on top of that.
Maybe they're a bit clunky, but they're a lot more fluid than previous MMOs I've played (Star Wars, Rift, countless F2P). And so what that you "max" out your weapons fairly quickly. It would be boring beyond belief if it took too long to level up each weapon. Like spamming Sinister Strike building up useless combo points until you could learn Eviscerate level of boring.
Character depth is also not only about your abilities, but also the character themselves. They're actually pretty interesting to follow in the main storyline (which is unique depending on race, and on what choices you made during the character creation.) But I forget that storyline doesn't matter when there's stuff to kill and buttons to smash on the keyboard.
There are fun activities to participate in, as I briefly went over in my previous post. If you don't enjoy anything in the game then it's not the games fault that it doesn't meet your expectations. Because they must be ridiculously high if you can't find anything fun in a game as open and diverse as GW2. If the content doesn't interest you, then you're looking into the wrong game genre, I'd presume.
This is my 2 cents on the game, showing people the "light" from my perspective.
There is PvP that is essentially like every other mmo with PvP
There's just simply no way that anything in GW2 can take the skill and required intelligence of some WoW duels or Arena fights. And thats just one example. I also felt that the dueling and small-group PvP in SWTOR was more relient on skill.
Structured PvP very much takes skill and the traits you can choose and the way you can build your character is very far from "low depth" in my opinion.
Tactics, thats fine. Push this node, split up and you guys go this way, we go this way. That's all well and good. But there's nothing like "saving your kick for penance"....or "cleansing vampiric touch" etc. etc.
Don't try to say you use all of them, because as a rogue I raided most of WotLK spamming 3-4 buttons (maybe 5.)
First of all, theres more than that many in WoW. And second of all think about how those 5+ work together. You need your deadly poison on there to make envenom work, you must keep up slice and dice, you mutilate to 4 OR 5 combo points and pay attention. You must put your tricks of the trade on a deserving person. You must stay behind the target or get cleaved. I mean, I can go on and on.
For my GW2 Necro and Thief, its just a bunch of really shitty and boring abilities that really dont matter how I use them.
It would be boring beyond belief if it took too long to level up each weapon.
Yea....they should have done it an entirely different way where you dont "blow your load" so early on learning new things. And then actually make the things you learn worth while.
Maybe they're a bit clunky, but they're a lot more fluid than previous MMOs I've played
Whhhaaatttt????? Thief has these GOD awful dash-type attacks which are honestly just an embarassment to the gaming genre. Flanking attack? 75% of the time you dash off in some awkward direction away from your target.
Shadow step (lol they just directly stole that) I forget the exact name , but the one where you teleport to them, then may activate it again to teleport back. The "teleport back" part lasts FOREVER....so if you dont actually want to use that part of it, you have to wait FOREVER to be able to use the intial dash part again.
The 5 for dagger-off-hand. Strike them, leave them vulnerable and vanish. WHY WOULD U WANT TO DO THIS? YOU WANT TO STRIKE THEM, THEN RUN OFF INVISIBLE WHILE THEY ARE VULNERABLE?!?
Whhhaaatttt????? Thief has these GOD awful dash-type attacks which are honestly just an embarassment to the gaming genre. Flanking attack? 75% of the time you dash off in some awkward direction away from your target.
Shadow step (lol they just directly stole that) I forget the exact name , but the one where you teleport to them, then may activate it again to teleport back. The "teleport back" part lasts FOREVER....so if you dont actually want to use that part of it, you have to wait FOREVER to be able to use the intial dash part again.
The 5 for dagger-off-hand. Strike them, leave them vulnerable and vanish. WHY WOULD U WANT TO DO THIS? YOU WANT TO STRIKE THEM, THEN RUN OFF INVISIBLE WHILE THEY ARE VULNERABLE?!?
Ugh it makes me mad I admit it
Not understanding the mechanics doesn't make it bad. Vanishing/Invisibility isn't the same in GW2 as in WoW. Mobs don't magically reset just because you vanish. The vanishing is actually good in the spell since the next move you use coming out of stealth does twice the amount of damage. I'm also not really sure what you're talking about flanking attacks. You can do more damage if you're attacking from behind or the sides, that's true. But there aren't any moves that require it. Much like in WoW solo it's going to be pretty much impossible to be behind the target 90% of the time.
As for Shadow Step.. you do know it was in Guild Wars 1? How could it "be stolen"? As for it's incarnation in Guild Wars 2, you use it to steal the move from the enemy you're targeting. I think it's a pretty interesting move. Some of the moves I've stolen have been pretty powerful to help kill my target.
There is PvP that is essentially like every other mmo with PvP
There's just simply no way that anything in GW2 can take the skill and required intelligence of some WoW duels or Arena fights. And thats just one example. I also felt that the dueling and small-group PvP in SWTOR was more relient on skill.
Tactics, thats fine. Push this node, split up and you guys go this way, we go this way. That's all well and good. But there's nothing like "saving your kick for penance"....or "cleansing vampiric touch" etc. etc.
You're right it's more akin to battle ground than arenas but there is definitely some situations when the odds are against you and the skills you purchase with upgrades (7-9) do exactly what you described, break CC, cleanse things, knockdown to interrupt channels.
Besides that I can't really argue the rest of the post because it's your opinion and play style.
Whhhaaatttt????? Thief has these GOD awful dash-type attacks which are honestly just an embarassment to the gaming genre. Flanking attack? 75% of the time you dash off in some awkward direction away from your target.
Shadow step (lol they just directly stole that) I forget the exact name , but the one where you teleport to them, then may activate it again to teleport back. The "teleport back" part lasts FOREVER....so if you dont actually want to use that part of it, you have to wait FOREVER to be able to use the intial dash part again.
The 5 for dagger-off-hand. Strike them, leave them vulnerable and vanish. WHY WOULD U WANT TO DO THIS? YOU WANT TO STRIKE THEM, THEN RUN OFF INVISIBLE WHILE THEY ARE VULNERABLE?!?
Ugh it makes me mad I admit it
Not understanding the mechanics doesn't make it bad. Vanishing/Invisibility isn't the same in GW2 as in WoW. Mobs don't magically reset just because you vanish. The vanishing is actually good in the spell since the next move you use coming out of stealth does twice the amount of damage. I'm also not really sure what you're talking about flanking attacks. You can do more damage if you're attacking from behind or the sides, that's true. But there aren't any moves that require it. Much like in WoW solo it's going to be pretty much impossible to be behind the target 90% of the time.
As for Shadow Step.. you do know it was in Guild Wars 1? How could it "be stolen"? As for it's incarnation in Guild Wars 2, you use it to steal the move from the enemy you're targeting. I think it's a pretty interesting move. Some of the moves I've stolen have been pretty powerful to help kill my target.
There's an actual move called flanking attack that awkwardly dashes you off to the side. That's what I was talking about.
As for my opinion and playstyle, I don't think it's really based on that.
There's just simply no depth to the skill required in small group fights, and thus, no skill required in a larger scale.
A duel (if they existed) would be realllllly shallow and not thought provoking. Thats not an opinion.
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
i'm coming with +6 years WoW exp and +6 months in SWTOR...
1. Arena Net said from the first days of announcement, they are "killing" the "holy trinity", which is an amazing thing, since GW always was the best pvp provider from most mmos, including wow.
2. those are not your skills, those are weapon based abilities, skills unlock on the 6-10 on the right side of your HP. and even the weapons abilities are amazing with their combination. something wow doesnt give.
3. big grp quests are great, personally i get mostly gold medals for little effort when there are many players at the same quest. that also solves in a way the "camp spawn" problems WoW gives.
4. boring copy class ideas? try thief, its most fun char i've played so far.
5. pvp is skill-less? well if your idea of skill is gear based and OP classes then yes you're completely right!. wow is well known for class buffing/nerfing on almost EVERY patch. GW2 is not based on gear or class, those factors play a VERY minor role. if you know how to play your class, with your skill you have a fair chance of winning. doesnt depends on your gear nor class.
6. the lvling is amazing, no need to pick up quests and read BORING quest logs. you run by an area and there is a quest going on? you want to assist, you get rewarded, if you dont really care and keep running with your business thats fine as well.
7. i dont know where you lvl, but i went on a "mining trip" the other day, i've gained +2 lvls in 2 hours. thats just from mining and random quests, how about leveling in WvWvW?
8. i'm glad its non sub fee game, because games like WoW are a dying breed, SWTOR going to be F2P in about a month or two and when MOP will fail, most likely wow will go f2p as well.
all in all, i've been enjoying myself just as much i was enjoying myself back in Vanilla-TBC times, if not even more.
but ArenaNet also stated that wow players, will look for an easy-wow-like-game. i'll be honest, i'm glad that is not!
Madnek you likely didn't read the whole post. I address everything you said
actually i did read it, i think you missed the point or how the game works.
i've been talking with ex-wow/swtor players and active ones, some of them were running for glad ranks others doing heroic dragon soul.
all of them stated that they are having more fun then they had most of the time in wow or swtor.
you its boring, its a matter of opinion.
you say pvp offers no skill, but you cannot back yourself up with any solid proof.
you say thief and rogue are basicly the same, while even though the have few similar abilities, their mechanics is different.
bottom line is, you're probably one of VERY few that did miss the point of the game.
give it another go, this time PLAY the game, dont start comparing it to pvp-unbalance, grind fest mmos. simply try to enjoy.
you say pvp offers no skill, but you cannot back yourself up with any solid proof.
I really want to know how those Gladiator people you were talking about think of this game....
The proof is that theres just no depth. You have 10 abilities to use, most of them are verrry simplistic.
There's not a lot of the following things:
Knowing when to pop cooldowns (Ice block, Cloak of Shadows, Strangulate)
not very much spell interuption--and when it does exist its not as specific as other games because you cant even tell what they are casting,
no specific cleanse / purge management. theres things that remove like 3 'conditions' on a cooldown. But you don't do it with anything specific in mind, you just do it when u notice a couple conditions. There's not the specific attention to detail of something like cleansing corruption or shadow word pain
theres little to no CCs-- big stuns, knockback, 8second+ CCs to take you out of the battle at strategic times (polymorph)
I mean this is just the beginning of the list...
How can something without all these things be deep, strategic and skillful?
The same way that Diablo 3 PVP will be strategic and skillful. Limited abilities doesn't make it less strategic, since you'll have to plan ahead on what abilities to select. Not just "oh this happened, time to pop this." PVP in WoW is pretty shallow and unbalanced. Why do you think the pro-gaming tournaments like MLG don't support it anymore? The only tournament that does is one Blizzard hosts itself.
That's not to say PVP in Diablo 3 or Guild Wars 2 will make it into MLG.
I really want to know how those Gladiator people you were talking about think of this game....
well you're talking to someone that took 3 premade teams and got them to marshal-grand marshal ranks, back in vanilla.
and i've been leading RBGs in cata before i quit wow for good.
playing a rogue or frost mage or what ever you want to name out, with all those abilities/trinkets for any senario. is not really into your skill of survival more of simple minded buttons clicking.
in GW2 you set your 7-10 skills before the fight or after the fight is over, and you have 2 sets of weapon setup that you premake for either intense melee fights, aoe dmg or range fights. and you flip in and out mid fight, avoid dmg incoming, no "homing missile" casts or range shots.
like others said before me, WoW guys either adapt to the challange of GW2 and enjoy it or simply rant about it and run back to wow, with its "balanced" pvp, where ppl "dont" whine about a specific class being to OP, untill its nerfed again, so ppl could whine about another class being to OP...
here's wow for you, frost mage drops shatter combo on its target pops everything and 2 shot it...so much skills...yeah...
Spell interruption doesn't really exist because all classes skills are action based and very view require an actual cast time longer than a second or so. You DO have what's essentially the same thing though in knockdowns, fears, blinds, and other abilities you use on your enemy and they can't attack for a short time.
These are all just one link examples and almost every class has a good mixture of these.
Also cleansing is fine. Why does it need to be specific. If I'm taking damage from poison or damage from shadow word pain it doesn't matter to me I want it off. Maybe what you're meaning is some DoT's are stronger and need to be cleansed, well thats possible and true.
Bleed and vulnerability effects stack in effect so when they stack higher you definitely want them cleansed more.
Poison and burns stack in duration, the last thing you want is a burn effect that will last until you can no longer heal and die so you cleanse it.
If its a shorter effect it's not worth blowing your cleanse on.
Basically everything you just mentioned it not having it has.
There are no duels no but structured PvP can often come down to 1v1 or 2v1 or 2v2 and knowing when to use these cooldowns can save your life.
If you're expecting to just launch the game and master the system from how you're used to playing WoW and other MMO's then yes you're going to have a difficult time wrapping your head around the differences.
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I am posting here because I am somewhat familiar with these forums.
So I'll cut to the chase:
I really wanted Guild Wars 2 to be fun, but I am fairly afraid that it just isn't.
When you first start playing, everything seems great; The graphics are awesome and the visual layout of the interface is good. Everything is bright, luminous and you can just smell "good quality" coming off of your screen.
Honestly, the game feels like it's really high quality from the get-go.
But then...I played for a fair amount of time telling myself that the things I found questionable have their reasoning, or I just need to level up a little more. But at this point I am pretty sure that all those things I found questionable are really just flat out stupid.
There's some very solid asects of this game that should make it into the next 'good' MMO, but my gripes about important things are too much for the small nice things.
My gripes with this game:
Summary
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
1. No class roles. Healer / Assassin / Tank / Self-Sustaining damage-dealer Etc.
Now, don't get me wrong, each class has it's own somewhat unique styles and things it brings to the table. But they really arent enough and they are hardly noticeable. I play a Necromancer level 22, and my uniqueness is supposed to be these "Wellls" to benefit my teammates or debuff enemies. It's okay. However they are extremely fire-and-forget. You just do them. No real regard for why or when.
Other classes have their little buffs as well. I play with a friend who is a Mesmer, and he benefits me in various ways, but nothing I have to pay attention to whatsoever other than perhaps 1 AOE healy thing I should stand in, if it even occurs to me.
However, there's no blatant roles. Healer. DPS. Healer has mega buffs, HoTs and direct-heals. He does these things extremely well. DPS types BETTER stay with that guy if they want to do well. He even better work very hard to pay attention to the important healer aspects. Peeling, line of sight, abilities that require you to pay attention like, let's say, PW: Barrier.
DPS has some very specfic things as well. Slows, well-timed stuns, control over your damage. Stall and stall until you wait for the big moment to kill something. Now, a lot of this is going to be PvP based, but not evrything.
Now, these things are just the TIPS of the ice-bergs. And they dont even remotely exist in GW2. You just "do your thing" and automatically buff others, and "doing your thing" is basically boring in the first place.
2. Skills are BORING and "weapon based." You unlock all of youre main skills in the first 10 levels or so. No self-synergy.
I tried other classes besides my Necromancer to approximately level 10, let's say. But on my Necromancer I can tell you that I don't have to think about what skills I am using, when, where, or why.
All my shit just does something meaningless which will have no effect on the next thing I do. Everything is cooldown based so I just use something when it is "up."
There's no placing a lot of DoTs to get the maximum drain from drain life. There's no freezing enemies so you may shatter them. There's no applying diseases to make your strikes hit harder. Again, just the TIP of the TIP of the ice-berg.
It's just a bunch of cooldown based skills numbered 1 through 5 based on what weapons you use, Oh yeah, and you unlock your approximately 5 sets of these very early, and get to (enjoy?) them from then on. Buttons 6 though 0 unlock slowly over time, and I have to say are very lackluster as well.
On the necromancer 1 through 5 literaly dont matter whatsoever. They are just some lame damage dealers with some slight idea of effecting eachother. Buttons 5 through 0 tend to be my EXTREMELY dumb pets and those "Wells" I mentioned earlier. Again, Wells are just these doofy AOE things I lay down for a pointless effect and are automatic and no one has to have any concern for them whatsoever, besides me, but hardly.
Oh yeah, and every skill looks fucking god-awful. There's hardly any projectile spells, most things just appear at your target instantly; Removing any concept of who shot it at you. Coulda been anybody in that general direction! And there's no ominous and scary shadowbolt coming that seals your competitive loss if you don't fix the problem in .5 seconds.
3. Big zerg fests that really question what you are actually contributing to anything.
For the first approximatey 10 levels, you are in the starter zones which are packed to the brim with zergs doing the public events and quests. So, for the first 10 levels its very hard to tell what you are doing or what you are personally contributing. You might be pretty awesome, and you might be doing fucking nothing at all.
I found myself avoiding people on occasion so that I could see 1v1 in Me vs. Monster, what I am actually doing. That's about when I realized that I don't have to think about my DPS rotation, or think about anything really. Just hit my random cooldown-based skills when they are up and move on....
The idea of public quests and events is nice, but it really just adds to a zergy skill-less feel. Whenever you come up the frequent public events (at which a zerg is usually present) you just say to yourself "okay free EXP, just clock in my 10 minutes of following the zerg around. And it doesnt really matter what I do."
4. Boring Carbon-Copy class ideas, with an awkward Guild Wars 2 wrapping
There's 8 classes. 5-6 of which are exact WoW ideas. Necro, Elementalist, Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Guardian. Like, really? WHY even do that? Zealot---a cult based class which fuckin prays to Bobbabushka and rains down plagues on the enemy. There, I just came up with a more original idea in literally 15 seconds of thinking.
Now, though the concepts of the classes are *stolen* from WoW. The playstyles feel different because of the GW2 skill-structure. Lol....they feel worse. Do your doofy automatic abilities on cooldowns with no real concern for your own synergy.
Like jesus, I'd hate to keep invoking WoW because there ARE other decent MMO's out there, but it comes to mind to mention my WOTLK rogue. Stack up poisons, keep up slice and dice, put up rupture, use envenom, use tricks of the trade.....Jesus....I could go on but what I've just mentioned is already 15x more thought-requiring than anything in all of GW2.
5. PvP is LAAAAAAAAME and skill-less. #1 and #3 dont help. Big zerg of randomness with no obvious team work.
Theres no direct dependancy on any other person. You just do your thing. You don't need a healer, or anything. Just join the zerg and be yourself and go mentally-afk. Now, the overall strategies have room for skill. Allocating your forces, which tend to be massive in WvW. Putting pressure on certain nodes. But it feels much like a general in World War 2. "Hey let me put 1 million dudes here and push this area back..." It doesn't much come down to the individual whatsoever.
6. A new idea for leveling that just comes-off as cluttered and unfinished.
If you're efficient and quick, like me, and you don't like to dilly-daddle around for 15 minutes taking in the scenery and waiting for the next public event, you will be underleveled if you just go along your own races leveling path.
There's zones for each race that follow a leveling structure, but one path of them is not enough to level you in the proper ratio to its growing difficulty.
Now, there's a way around this, by going down 2 different races paths, but when it comes down to it, the zones' content feels very scattered. You do a LOT of running from place to place, then doing a quest for 6 minutes and maybe an event, then more running! And there's this air of....broken-ness...like they fucked up somehow and things arent flowing like they ought to, and you arent getting the experience you deserve.
7. Leveling is SLLLOWW and un-rewarding. Dont give me this "enjoy the ride!" nonsense
Now, SWTOR is a pretty shitty game, but its leveling process the first time around, is fuckin fun. It feels relatively quick, theres a personal storyline thats pretty badass. For my Sith guy it was becoming an apprentice, then discovering a conspiracy around me, then realizing my master is against me, then murdering her.....yata yata. Oh, and you only have the looming notion of 50 levels....GW2 has 80.
In my head, as I level through GW2, I am like "how the fuck am I going to do this for 55 more fucking levels." And why even?
You gain these little trait points (which again add to the automatic-ness) and these points just give you a stat and something passive. "Your debuffs do more damage"......wow innovative.
Then you also gain, whatever they are called, skill points. And with skill points you need 1 of them to unlock a skill for your 6 through 0 buttons, then you need 3, then you need 6, etc....
Oh and by the way, you need to unlock X amount of skills to get to the next tier. On my Necromancer there was one tier that I literally did not like a single skill of. And I probably wont ever use any of those tiers. However, you must spend ur points on them to get to the tier after that.....yay.....
8. Feels like a non-subscription fee game. There just isn't that weight of the extra money. It's like they tried to fit everything into a lower budget.
At first this game feels like the opposite. A non-sub-fee game that feels like one that DOES have it. But then you pay closer attention. Everything has a bit of an air of cheesy-ness. Plastic-ness. It's like when you buy that Nyko knock-off Xbox controller. It works....and it probably fills the role it needs to perfectly fine until it breaks...but SOMETHING about it....just aint right...
One direct example in GW2 is that everything feels grand and extraordinary, and your character feels like a person right there in front of you. You could push him on the back and he wouldn't move because he's heavy and sturdy and strong.
But then you zoom you camera out and it becomes League of Legends or something....tiny little characters and a distance from the action.
CONCLUSION
This game is really extraordinary and unique in a way I have not seen before. People lie to themselves about it's quality more than I'd ever imagine. They just make this face
Something about this game-franchise makes people really want to believe in it and love it. I have hardly seen a bad word spoken about this game in-game, or ......at all. But that's just not possible....
People want it to be good soooo badly. I'm not sure why.
Don't get me wrong, this game has some degree of value, and since there's no sub-fee you feel less guilty playing it once you have paid the retail price. But if you are looking for that next major MMO with "serious" player competitiveness from PvE or PvP, I think you need to take a very hard look at this game and don't give it more credit than it deserves.
To me, it has that kind of rinky-dink fun of Diablo 3 in an MMO wrapping, but Diabo 3 is better in that way. It's got its little quirks and at it's core its really not very complex. *Cast Hydra, Cast Blizzard, run around* But that works and is fun in the context of the diablo world. GW2 does something very simiar to THAT. NOT MLG style PvP or grand 200,000 person streaming PvE.
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Wise ElderThat's true, and for some that's a good thing. There still is very much the possibility of you playing either more supportively or more defensively.
Did you happen to miss out on traits or skill points you earn with levels? To me that feels like a lot of long term self synergy and variety.
Maybe in the starting zones but that becomes less apparent as you break away from the crowd. I don't find playing with others a bad thing though in GW2. The fact that you all get exp and your own loot from mobs makes interacting with others rewarding instead of someone just trying to tag your mob or steal your gathering node, you have your own gathering nodes too.
No idea what you're talking about here. I've never played a class in any other game like the mesmer.
Sure a lot of archtypes are there though, thief = rogue, warrior = warrior, guardian = paladinish, ranger = hunter, these archtypes are comfortable and cover aspects that most people look for and enjoy.
World PvP can be like that if you follow the pack. Last night though me and a group of nine guild mates snuck behind enemy lines and kept a supply point for quite some time which really hindered the enemies ability to defend their forts. I find it really enjoyable with friends but I can agree its easy to get lost in the crowd.
However that's only world vs world PvP, there is still structured PvP which is about like PvP in every other MMO.
Not sure which idea you mean. The events? Those aren't new ideas, many games have tried that, most notably Rift but this has taken that turd and polished it to a very enjoying nugget of gold.
If you try to level between just quests and events, yes it will get slow. A good way to speed it up though is by incorporating World VS World PVP, gathering and crafting, or exploring zones fully which you get rewards and exp for.
Crafting can be very tricky because unlike most MMO's you're not encouraged to make the same sword for 15 skill levels, you want to use your materials to make discoveries which are essentially recipes. You are rewarded with a lot more exp for discoveries as well as using less of your valuable crafting materials making the same items repeatedly.
Not sure what you mean by this either. I really enjoy the fact it's non-subscription and the fact that I've already sunk 66 hours in and many more to come makes it worth the money to me. That is all really subjective though depending on the person. I haven't seen anything they tried to "fit into a lower budget" though.
I'm having a great time, more so than I expected actually which is a nice feeling.
But I'll say this:
This just sounds like the typical Guild Wars 2 self-lie. It's okay because Guild Wars 2 did it! Not someone else...
The world is gorgeous and gigantic. I've never played another game with such huge cities to run around in. I've discovered there are a lot of people that roleplay on my server as well, which is pretty awesome. I've stumbled across a few pretty good RP's and just sat around and read what was happening.
I realize the game isn't for everyone. No game is, really. But as a game without a subscription fee, I can see myself playing quite a bit of it, returning to it from time to time if I ever get bored. Much like Diablo 3, which I still enjoy; just have other games I'd rater spend my time in.
Sucks you didn't enjoy it, good luck finding something you do like.
The point is to discuss it and perhaps show people the "light" from my perspective.
Do you really enjoy having such a low-depth character? Nothing you do with your character can possibly take much skill or theory. Or theorycrafting for that matter.
I was just working on a thief and it's equally shallow as the necromancer, and actually, its skills are VERY clunky and pointless.
It's about having a fun character to use as you DO improve it. Not just the nice outline of a good game, then no fun roles to play through it.
Also, I really want someone to point out something thats skillful, competitive, deep.
I want to be proven wrong about the overall badness of this game in these aspects because I have nothing to play right now really. I've dominated D3, and I can't really go back to WoW after not playing for so long. It just looks weird now
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Wise ElderThere are dungeons which are pretty difficult and then explorable modes for them which are harder. At level 80 there are world bosses which will function similar to a small raid.
Structured PvP very much takes skill and the traits you can choose and the way you can build your character is very far from "low depth" in my opinion.
Also:
All I was saying is pretty much every game has those basic archtypes and that's fine because its what people want for the most part, that's why we keep seeing them. Most people like familiar feeling classes.
You seem dead set on hating the game though for whatever reason I'm not sure. What do you think its lacking? At it's core, not leveling is too slow, etc. Is it some sort of endgame?
There is a variety of spells in GW2. It just depends what weapon you choose for your "spec." Thief for example can combine different weapons for different combinations of abilities. (i.e. Gun + Dagger). Who's to say what combination is best? It's sort of preference based at first, but eventually I'm sure there will be a "best" combination. Then you have utility abilities to unlock with Trait points on top of that.
Maybe they're a bit clunky, but they're a lot more fluid than previous MMOs I've played (Star Wars, Rift, countless F2P). And so what that you "max" out your weapons fairly quickly. It would be boring beyond belief if it took too long to level up each weapon. Like spamming Sinister Strike building up useless combo points until you could learn Eviscerate level of boring.
Character depth is also not only about your abilities, but also the character themselves. They're actually pretty interesting to follow in the main storyline (which is unique depending on race, and on what choices you made during the character creation.) But I forget that storyline doesn't matter when there's stuff to kill and buttons to smash on the keyboard.
There are fun activities to participate in, as I briefly went over in my previous post. If you don't enjoy anything in the game then it's not the games fault that it doesn't meet your expectations. Because they must be ridiculously high if you can't find anything fun in a game as open and diverse as GW2. If the content doesn't interest you, then you're looking into the wrong game genre, I'd presume.
This is my 2 cents on the game, showing people the "light" from my perspective.
There's just simply no way that anything in GW2 can take the skill and required intelligence of some WoW duels or Arena fights. And thats just one example. I also felt that the dueling and small-group PvP in SWTOR was more relient on skill.
Tactics, thats fine. Push this node, split up and you guys go this way, we go this way. That's all well and good. But there's nothing like "saving your kick for penance"....or "cleansing vampiric touch" etc. etc.
First of all, theres more than that many in WoW. And second of all think about how those 5+ work together. You need your deadly poison on there to make envenom work, you must keep up slice and dice, you mutilate to 4 OR 5 combo points and pay attention. You must put your tricks of the trade on a deserving person. You must stay behind the target or get cleaved. I mean, I can go on and on.
For my GW2 Necro and Thief, its just a bunch of really shitty and boring abilities that really dont matter how I use them.
Yea....they should have done it an entirely different way where you dont "blow your load" so early on learning new things. And then actually make the things you learn worth while.
Whhhaaatttt????? Thief has these GOD awful dash-type attacks which are honestly just an embarassment to the gaming genre. Flanking attack? 75% of the time you dash off in some awkward direction away from your target.
Shadow step (lol they just directly stole that) I forget the exact name , but the one where you teleport to them, then may activate it again to teleport back. The "teleport back" part lasts FOREVER....so if you dont actually want to use that part of it, you have to wait FOREVER to be able to use the intial dash part again.
The 5 for dagger-off-hand. Strike them, leave them vulnerable and vanish. WHY WOULD U WANT TO DO THIS? YOU WANT TO STRIKE THEM, THEN RUN OFF INVISIBLE WHILE THEY ARE VULNERABLE?!?
Ugh it makes me mad I admit it
Not understanding the mechanics doesn't make it bad. Vanishing/Invisibility isn't the same in GW2 as in WoW. Mobs don't magically reset just because you vanish. The vanishing is actually good in the spell since the next move you use coming out of stealth does twice the amount of damage. I'm also not really sure what you're talking about flanking attacks. You can do more damage if you're attacking from behind or the sides, that's true. But there aren't any moves that require it. Much like in WoW solo it's going to be pretty much impossible to be behind the target 90% of the time.
As for Shadow Step.. you do know it was in Guild Wars 1? How could it "be stolen"? As for it's incarnation in Guild Wars 2, you use it to steal the move from the enemy you're targeting. I think it's a pretty interesting move. Some of the moves I've stolen have been pretty powerful to help kill my target.
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Wise ElderYou're right it's more akin to battle ground than arenas but there is definitely some situations when the odds are against you and the skills you purchase with upgrades (7-9) do exactly what you described, break CC, cleanse things, knockdown to interrupt channels.
Besides that I can't really argue the rest of the post because it's your opinion and play style.
There's an actual move called flanking attack that awkwardly dashes you off to the side. That's what I was talking about.
As for my opinion and playstyle, I don't think it's really based on that.
There's just simply no depth to the skill required in small group fights, and thus, no skill required in a larger scale.
A duel (if they existed) would be realllllly shallow and not thought provoking. Thats not an opinion.
i'm coming with +6 years WoW exp and +6 months in SWTOR...
1. Arena Net said from the first days of announcement, they are "killing" the "holy trinity", which is an amazing thing, since GW always was the best pvp provider from most mmos, including wow.
2. those are not your skills, those are weapon based abilities, skills unlock on the 6-10 on the right side of your HP. and even the weapons abilities are amazing with their combination. something wow doesnt give.
3. big grp quests are great, personally i get mostly gold medals for little effort when there are many players at the same quest. that also solves in a way the "camp spawn" problems WoW gives.
4. boring copy class ideas? try thief, its most fun char i've played so far.
5. pvp is skill-less? well if your idea of skill is gear based and OP classes then yes you're completely right!. wow is well known for class buffing/nerfing on almost EVERY patch. GW2 is not based on gear or class, those factors play a VERY minor role. if you know how to play your class, with your skill you have a fair chance of winning. doesnt depends on your gear nor class.
6. the lvling is amazing, no need to pick up quests and read BORING quest logs. you run by an area and there is a quest going on? you want to assist, you get rewarded, if you dont really care and keep running with your business thats fine as well.
7. i dont know where you lvl, but i went on a "mining trip" the other day, i've gained +2 lvls in 2 hours. thats just from mining and random quests, how about leveling in WvWvW?
8. i'm glad its non sub fee game, because games like WoW are a dying breed, SWTOR going to be F2P in about a month or two and when MOP will fail, most likely wow will go f2p as well.
all in all, i've been enjoying myself just as much i was enjoying myself back in Vanilla-TBC times, if not even more.
but ArenaNet also stated that wow players, will look for an easy-wow-like-game. i'll be honest, i'm glad that is not!
Okay... if it's not an opinion post some facts.
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Wise ElderAnd Madnek you likely didn't read the whole post. I address everything you said
actually i did read it, i think you missed the point or how the game works.
i've been talking with ex-wow/swtor players and active ones, some of them were running for glad ranks others doing heroic dragon soul.
all of them stated that they are having more fun then they had most of the time in wow or swtor.
you its boring, its a matter of opinion.
you say pvp offers no skill, but you cannot back yourself up with any solid proof.
you say thief and rogue are basicly the same, while even though the have few similar abilities, their mechanics is different.
bottom line is, you're probably one of VERY few that did miss the point of the game.
give it another go, this time PLAY the game, dont start comparing it to pvp-unbalance, grind fest mmos. simply try to enjoy.
I really want to know how those Gladiator people you were talking about think of this game....
The proof is that theres just no depth. You have 10 abilities to use, most of them are verrry simplistic.
There's not a lot of the following things:
Knowing when to pop cooldowns (Ice block, Cloak of Shadows, Strangulate)
not very much spell interuption--and when it does exist its not as specific as other games because you cant even tell what they are casting,
no specific cleanse / purge management. theres things that remove like 3 'conditions' on a cooldown. But you don't do it with anything specific in mind, you just do it when u notice a couple conditions. There's not the specific attention to detail of something like cleansing corruption or shadow word pain
theres little to no CCs-- big stuns, knockback, 8second+ CCs to take you out of the battle at strategic times (polymorph)
I mean this is just the beginning of the list...
How can something without all these things be deep, strategic and skillful?
That's not to say PVP in Diablo 3 or Guild Wars 2 will make it into MLG.
well you're talking to someone that took 3 premade teams and got them to marshal-grand marshal ranks, back in vanilla.
and i've been leading RBGs in cata before i quit wow for good.
playing a rogue or frost mage or what ever you want to name out, with all those abilities/trinkets for any senario. is not really into your skill of survival more of simple minded buttons clicking.
in GW2 you set your 7-10 skills before the fight or after the fight is over, and you have 2 sets of weapon setup that you premake for either intense melee fights, aoe dmg or range fights. and you flip in and out mid fight, avoid dmg incoming, no "homing missile" casts or range shots.
like others said before me, WoW guys either adapt to the challange of GW2 and enjoy it or simply rant about it and run back to wow, with its "balanced" pvp, where ppl "dont" whine about a specific class being to OP, untill its nerfed again, so ppl could whine about another class being to OP...
here's wow for you, frost mage drops shatter combo on its target pops everything and 2 shot it...so much skills...yeah...
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Wise Elderhttp://www.gw2db.com/skills/2686-moa-morph - polymorph type cc
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3411-renewed-focus - Short invulnerability like bubble etc
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/259-throw-bolas - Slowing CC
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/45-endure-pain - Another invulnerable cooldown
There are plenty more, that's a few examples.
Spell interruption doesn't really exist because all classes skills are action based and very view require an actual cast time longer than a second or so. You DO have what's essentially the same thing though in knockdowns, fears, blinds, and other abilities you use on your enemy and they can't attack for a short time.
Here is just a small list of examples.
Knockdowns:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3990-tripwire
Blind:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3997-signet-of-shadows
Knockback:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/14959-throw-mine
Fear:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/226-fear-me
Stun:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/4357-signet-of-domination
Confusion:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/2543-confusing-images
And then you havethings like stability which grants short immunity to some of those effects:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/317-balanced-stance
Or retaliation which lets you reflect damage:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/3410-stand-your-ground
These are all just one link examples and almost every class has a good mixture of these.
Also cleansing is fine. Why does it need to be specific. If I'm taking damage from poison or damage from shadow word pain it doesn't matter to me I want it off. Maybe what you're meaning is some DoT's are stronger and need to be cleansed, well thats possible and true.
Bleed and vulnerability effects stack in effect so when they stack higher you definitely want them cleansed more.
Poison and burns stack in duration, the last thing you want is a burn effect that will last until you can no longer heal and die so you cleanse it.
If its a shorter effect it's not worth blowing your cleanse on.
Basically everything you just mentioned it not having it has.
There are no duels no but structured PvP can often come down to 1v1 or 2v1 or 2v2 and knowing when to use these cooldowns can save your life.
If you're expecting to just launch the game and master the system from how you're used to playing WoW and other MMO's then yes you're going to have a difficult time wrapping your head around the differences.