If you aren't interested in my personal ramblings and just wanna cut to the chase, skip the spoiler button:
Well I've been saying forever that I wanted to write a book and I've had some specific ideas floating around for years. Recently I've finally gotten geared up and started compiling my ideas and begun planning out a few books that I intend to write and hopefully publish(also researched the process of getting the works published).
I've started 3 projects that I'm bouncing between (helps me avoid writers block) and the one I'm currently the most excited about is to be a novel or short series targeting kids of late elementary school age and perhaps early middle school kids. I don't want to share details about it online, but a significant portion of the characters will each have a sword that is unique and personal to them.
So, what I've found to be a great source of inspiration is looking at different types of swords in order to develop ideas for characters both major and minor.
What I would like from you guys are descriptions or, even better yet, pictures of swords that you find interesting. They can be real or highly stylized, although I'm not really considering any sci-fi types(lightsabers, etc).
So feel free to post pics from games, movies, actual swords or even your own sketches. :thumbsup:
first off, as a person who is getting their degree in early childhood education to become a teacher, I think that swords in the book are a very bad idea for that age.
That aside, I love any katana.
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Noted, though I'd like to know why you caution against swords for the age group. If it's concerns about violence, there are plot devices in place so that characters wont be hacking each other apart or anything of the sort. Essentially it wouldn't be much more violent than the earlier Harry Potter books. I suppose the risk of imitation is always present, though in this case it would probably be less than your standard Saturday morning cartoons.
Neat katana. I think I'm bound to have at least one important character use one, though the bulk of the swords I've considered so far have been European and African(there have been some awesome looking Turkish swords I've found).
There's swords in lots of books geared toward kids of that age.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Neat swords so far. In the research I've done so far I've mostly looked at European and African historical swords. I knew I could count on you guys for some more stylized ideas.
Hopefully that'll give you the inspiration you're looking for. If you ever need any help with swords or weaponry, just ask. I've done a lot of research on the subject, though my area of expertise is East Asian weaponry.
Edit: These are all real weapons used throughout history in these regions. I didn't realize you were looking for more fantasy-based weapons.... ^_^;;
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------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Thanks, there are some there I hadn't thought of. That Khopesh is particularly interesting. I think the Flyssa is actually the same picture I was looking at the other day and will likely have a character somewhat inspired by.
Yeah, the Khopesh is one of my favorites... although, I'm particularly fond of, when dealing with European weaponry, the Makhaira... a weapon used in ancient Greece. The sister blade is the Kopis. The major difference between the two blades is direction of the curvature of the blade, in addition to the position of the edge (The Kopis's blade curves "down" in relevance to the pommel held down, whereas the Makhaira's blade has an upward curve.) These weapons are similar to the "Kukri", where the Kukri is a smaller, knife variant of these weapons.
Edit: Makhaira's latin form is "machaera", meaning "a sword". Many modern historians believe this is where our word "Machete" comes from.
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------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Noted, though I'd like to know why you caution against swords for the age group. If it's concerns about violence, there are plot devices in place so that characters wont be hacking each other apart or anything of the sort. Essentially it wouldn't be much more violent than the earlier Harry Potter books. I suppose the risk of imitation is always present, though in this case it would probably be less than your standard Saturday morning cartoons.
First, remember that this is just my opinion. I am nearing completion of my bachelor's in early childhood education and plan on becoming an elementary school teach by Spring of next year. All of my opinion is based from the knowledge I have gained from my experience in school.
Children's literature, especially for children that young, need characters in books that are easily role modeled after. For example, you can't have the protagonist of the story being mean to others and doing "bad" things. They need to instill virtuous ideals and actions.
Secondly, the swords themselves are the main problem. In my opinion, having a character with a sword is the same thing as the character having a gun. A weapon is a weapon to children at that age. How would you explain that the sword should not be used for violence to them?
Also, violence is practically intolerable as themes for books for that age. Again, I believe you are talking about children 10-12. You will find it very hard to find any publisher looking for a book wit any violence in it. I understand your book is not about violence but the fact remains, you don't give someone a sword if you don't plan on them using it.
As for Harry Potter and Saturday morning cartoons. Harry Potter is aimed at an older audience. There is a fine line in children's development when they are able to differentiate between fiction/make-believe and non-fiction/real world. At that age, children still see both as the same. And while there is some violence in the books, the violence is "usually" done through magic and cannot be imitated. As for the cartoons, cartoons have always had a more leeway when it comes to violence. Mainly because cartoons are not controlled by teachers and parents like books are. Children do not have to have someone buy them for them, they simply turn on the T.V. and watch, possibly without any supervision.
Again, this is all just my opinion. I don't think swords have any place in books for children of that age. My suggestion, raise the age of your audience to a more appropriate age. I would say 13-15 year olds. Or, change the swords into something less violent like different kinds of sticks. It sounds like you are planning on writing a pretty extensive story which would be geared for older children anyway. Usually books for this age never reach beyond 100 pages and that is pushing it for elementary school kids.
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First, remember that this is just my opinion. I am nearing completion of my bachelor's in early childhood education and plan on becoming an elementary school teach by Spring of next year. All of my opinion is based from the knowledge I have gained from my experience in school.
Of course, I only asked for more information about your stance out of respect for your opinion, not with the intention to argue(just a disclaimer before anyone else jumps in as though it were an argument, as people tend to do in forums too often). My professional experience teaching and tutoring has been limited to 6th-12th grade, so it's always nice to hear what a teacher(or aspiring teacher as the case may be) with a different background has to add.
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Children's literature, especially for children that young, need characters in books that are easily role modeled after. For example, you can't have the protagonist of the story being mean to others and doing "bad" things. They need to instill virtuous ideals and actions.
Agreed. And that is certainly the type of character(one that does the right thing and such) that will be the lead in this one. I have two other projects I'm working on that are aimed at a more mature audience and will deal with internal conflicts along those lines, but the children's book doesn't go into that so much.
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Secondly, the swords themselves are the main problem. In my opinion, having a character with a sword is the same thing as the character having a gun. A weapon is a weapon to children at that age. How would you explain that the sword should not be used for violence to them?
Responsibility, proper use of power, discouraging violence are all central themes I'm working with. I wouldn't consider it a problem for weapons to be involved if there is adequate emphasis on not misusing them.
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Also, violence is practically intolerable as themes for books for that age. Again, I believe you are talking about children 10-12. You will find it very hard to find any publisher looking for a book wit any violence in it. I understand your book is not about violence but the fact remains, you don't give someone a sword if you don't plan on them using it.
Violence as a theme certainly would be a bad choice for a kids book, though some violence isn't all that uncommon. I think you may be underestimating the level of violence that's tolerated for that age group by publishers and schools.
The early middle school kids I tutor recently read a book that involved a boy witnessing his dad strangle his mother to death and years later strangle another woman nearly to death(she lived but could no longer talk and required a neck brace) as well as rope up his kid and try to kill another if I remember correctly. All in all, the book had a good message but it also had some potentially scary moments as well as some fairly mature topics. That was a book assigned by a Lutheran private elementary and middle school of all things.
Some of the books I remember from 5th and 6th grade were considerably worse as well, though those were probably marketed towards older kids by the publishers even if the schools didn't mind them being read by younger children.
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
As for Harry Potter and Saturday morning cartoons. Harry Potter is aimed at an older audience. There is a fine line in children's development when they are able to differentiate between fiction/make-believe and non-fiction/real world. At that age, children still see both as the same. And while there is some violence in the books, the violence is "usually" done through magic and cannot be imitated. As for the cartoons, cartoons have always had a more leeway when it comes to violence. Mainly because cartoons are not controlled by teachers and parents like books are. Children do not have to have someone buy them for them, they simply turn on the T.V. and watch, possibly without any supervision.
Supposedly Rowling didn't have any age range in mind while writing but the first Harry Potter was initially marketed towards children ages 9 to 11 as a choice by the publisher. The books did get progressively more mature though and the target audience grew much wider.
If it makes any difference, in the story I'm writing(really need to think up a title already:P) magic is also consistent throughout and the use of swords is exclusively used in combination with magic. I do see the concern however that waving around swords is more easily imitated by kids, but then again how many younger kids don't already wave around any pole shaped object and pretend it's a sword?
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Again, this is all just my opinion. I don't think swords have any place in books for children of that age. My suggestion, raise the age of your audience to a more appropriate age. I would say 13-15 year olds. Or, change the swords into something less violent like different kinds of sticks. It sounds like you are planning on writing a pretty extensive story which would be geared for older children anyway. Usually books for this age never reach beyond 100 pages and that is pushing it for elementary school kids.
The age may change as I get more written and I would like it to be something still enjoyable for that 13-15 age range. Of course, the publishers will have final say on who they want to market towards. As for length, my current plans do seem to lean towards a few hundred pages, but the story can easily be broken into either 2, 3 or 7 sections. I will likely divide it into 3 parts since shorter books are more appealing to kids and easier to publish(more likely to sell, cost less to print, take up less shelf space from the book store's perspective).
Of course the only downside with breaking up the story is that if it doesn't sell, I would never get the remaining parts published. Although I guess I could fall back on an e-book publication if I just really wanted to make the remaining bit public.
I think the simple solution is just upping the age range to middle school to early high school. That way you can avoid any situations (imagine a mother blaming you for her child stabbing his brother). Plus, it seems that an older audience would match your writing style better: Length, themes and style.
Sounds like a very interesting book though. I would love to read any of it if you have some done or just some thoughts and ideas. While I am going to school to be a teacher, I plan on doing the cliche and trying to write books as well. Being a teacher just gives me a steady pay check.
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You know, I've actually had many ideas (and outlines // characters // brainstorms // first couple of chapters) written out for a multitude of books.... but I end up stopping. Feast or Famine... too many ideas, or not enough. >.<
But, keep on keepin' on. I admire your pursuit, and I hope that it comes to fruition!
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------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
I think the simple solution is just upping the age range to middle school to early high school. That way you can avoid any situations (imagine a mother blaming you for her child stabbing his brother). Plus, it seems that an older audience would match your writing style better: Length, themes and style.
It's a good point, and I'll consider it further when I get to the step of writing to agents and/or publishers. I think I'll keep the younger age group in mind while writing however, otherwise I'm likely to go a more mature route(late teens and up), which I don't want for this particular story. The other two ideas will probably be more mature fantasy stories though(similar audience as the Sin War books in terms of maturity).
Quote from "ScyberDragon" »
Sounds like a very interesting book though. I would love to read any of it if you have some done or just some thoughts and ideas. While I am going to school to be a teacher, I plan on doing the cliche and trying to write books as well. Being a teacher just gives me a steady pay check.
I only have short snippets done at the moment and am still fleshing out the plot. I have most of it planned but still need to do most of the writing and a heck of a lot of refining. Once it starts getting polished, I may send around some samples.
I think you'll find teaching can be a lot of fun, though like any job, you do have to put up with plenty of bs administrative stuff. It's a pretty good profession to go into if you still want spare time for other hobbies/interests(generally work under 200 days a year).
Quote from "OathofChaos" »
You know, I've actually had many ideas (and outlines // characters // brainstorms // first couple of chapters) written out for a multitude of books.... but I end up stopping. Feast or Famine... too many ideas, or not enough. >.<
But, keep on keepin' on. I admire your pursuit, and I hope that it comes to fruition!
Yeah, I always came up with ideas and started writing when I was a little kid but for whatever reason stopped trying eventually. Recently I just decided to do it and with enough planning, mapping out stories before jumping in headfirst, etc. I think I can do it. I think having multiple projects to switch between helps me too.
The mother of a couple kids I tutor has something like 4 books published and from what I've read, her stuff isn't at all original or well written(not terrible, just not great). Granted, she is doing non-fiction touchy-feely advice stuff, but it still gives me hope that it can't be that hard to get something written and published.
Also, the books I've seen kids be required to read in middle school(some books meant to be as low as 3rd grade level) really aren't very good most of the time. Normally when the kids have to pick a book, the boys seem to dismiss most of them as either too girly or just boring.
yeah, I am looking forward to it. I chose elementary school mainly because of my own light nature. Plus, as you mentioned, it gives me plenty of time to still have a life outside of work.
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Scyber, no offense, but I think you're underestimating kids ten+ a little much. I realize this was not an argument (and am not trying to push it there, either) but I'm a very opinionated person and I might just burst if I don't get to say something about it. lol
By the time I was ten, I honestly can't say that I - nor anyone I knew - would not be able to distinguish fiction from reality (especially if he is intending to incorporate magic). That being said, I think that by then the majority of children will have better sense than to grab a sharp object and stab someone with them just because some characters in a book did it once or twice. It sounds to me like sToaster is planning on putting a fair amount of emphasis on proper usage/handling of the weapons as well and giving the reverence that far too many authors ignore (people who own weapons generally care quite a bit about them).
This being said, I certainly recognize the potential for trouble with even mild violence in children's literature/media. There's always the slim chance that a child will get the wrong idea and try to imitate it, but there's not much can be done about that. These days, media is so accessible (and so much is available to children) that I doubt a story focusing on characters who possess swords will be the worst thing they will see/read in a day. All they need to do is watch the news / the latest rap video / family guy, etc.
Personally, I'd rather have kids reading something with a little violence in it than nothing at all, and if that's what it takes to get them to put down the DS and pick up a book, so be it. :/
Children, yes. Parents/teachers, no. The problem isn't with the child. The problem isn't really the swords. The real problem is parents and teachers teaching their children and the difference between reading and imitating. You can expose children to a lot of things as long as you take the time to explain it properly to them. It is a sad fact but true none the less that parents blame the "media" for not teaching them rather than themselves. Because of this, there has been a huge backlash on what is allowed in the media for certain ages.
I would certainly let my child at that age read a book with violence but only because I know I would take the time to explain to them the situation and everything that goes into it.
That said...
There better be an Asian kid with a Katana.
EDIT: NM get political. Put thte Katana with a Hispanic kid. dum...dum..dummm
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Well I've been saying forever that I wanted to write a book and I've had some specific ideas floating around for years. Recently I've finally gotten geared up and started compiling my ideas and begun planning out a few books that I intend to write and hopefully publish(also researched the process of getting the works published).
I've started 3 projects that I'm bouncing between (helps me avoid writers block) and the one I'm currently the most excited about is to be a novel or short series targeting kids of late elementary school age and perhaps early middle school kids. I don't want to share details about it online, but a significant portion of the characters will each have a sword that is unique and personal to them.
So, what I've found to be a great source of inspiration is looking at different types of swords in order to develop ideas for characters both major and minor.
What I would like from you guys are descriptions or, even better yet, pictures of swords that you find interesting. They can be real or highly stylized, although I'm not really considering any sci-fi types(lightsabers, etc).
So feel free to post pics from games, movies, actual swords or even your own sketches. :thumbsup:
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
That aside, I love any katana.
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Neat katana. I think I'm bound to have at least one important character use one, though the bulk of the swords I've considered so far have been European and African(there have been some awesome looking Turkish swords I've found).
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Hmm, character ideas...
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Africa:
Khopesh
Shotel
Flyssa
European:
Colichemarde
Cutlass
Kilij
Falcata
Schweizersäbel
Hopefully that'll give you the inspiration you're looking for. If you ever need any help with swords or weaponry, just ask. I've done a lot of research on the subject, though my area of expertise is East Asian weaponry.
Edit: These are all real weapons used throughout history in these regions. I didn't realize you were looking for more fantasy-based weapons.... ^_^;;
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Edit: Makhaira's latin form is "machaera", meaning "a sword". Many modern historians believe this is where our word "Machete" comes from.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
First, remember that this is just my opinion. I am nearing completion of my bachelor's in early childhood education and plan on becoming an elementary school teach by Spring of next year. All of my opinion is based from the knowledge I have gained from my experience in school.
Children's literature, especially for children that young, need characters in books that are easily role modeled after. For example, you can't have the protagonist of the story being mean to others and doing "bad" things. They need to instill virtuous ideals and actions.
Secondly, the swords themselves are the main problem. In my opinion, having a character with a sword is the same thing as the character having a gun. A weapon is a weapon to children at that age. How would you explain that the sword should not be used for violence to them?
Also, violence is practically intolerable as themes for books for that age. Again, I believe you are talking about children 10-12. You will find it very hard to find any publisher looking for a book wit any violence in it. I understand your book is not about violence but the fact remains, you don't give someone a sword if you don't plan on them using it.
As for Harry Potter and Saturday morning cartoons. Harry Potter is aimed at an older audience. There is a fine line in children's development when they are able to differentiate between fiction/make-believe and non-fiction/real world. At that age, children still see both as the same. And while there is some violence in the books, the violence is "usually" done through magic and cannot be imitated. As for the cartoons, cartoons have always had a more leeway when it comes to violence. Mainly because cartoons are not controlled by teachers and parents like books are. Children do not have to have someone buy them for them, they simply turn on the T.V. and watch, possibly without any supervision.
Again, this is all just my opinion. I don't think swords have any place in books for children of that age. My suggestion, raise the age of your audience to a more appropriate age. I would say 13-15 year olds. Or, change the swords into something less violent like different kinds of sticks. It sounds like you are planning on writing a pretty extensive story which would be geared for older children anyway. Usually books for this age never reach beyond 100 pages and that is pushing it for elementary school kids.
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Of course, I only asked for more information about your stance out of respect for your opinion, not with the intention to argue(just a disclaimer before anyone else jumps in as though it were an argument, as people tend to do in forums too often). My professional experience teaching and tutoring has been limited to 6th-12th grade, so it's always nice to hear what a teacher(or aspiring teacher as the case may be) with a different background has to add.
Agreed. And that is certainly the type of character(one that does the right thing and such) that will be the lead in this one. I have two other projects I'm working on that are aimed at a more mature audience and will deal with internal conflicts along those lines, but the children's book doesn't go into that so much.
Responsibility, proper use of power, discouraging violence are all central themes I'm working with. I wouldn't consider it a problem for weapons to be involved if there is adequate emphasis on not misusing them.
Violence as a theme certainly would be a bad choice for a kids book, though some violence isn't all that uncommon. I think you may be underestimating the level of violence that's tolerated for that age group by publishers and schools.
The early middle school kids I tutor recently read a book that involved a boy witnessing his dad strangle his mother to death and years later strangle another woman nearly to death(she lived but could no longer talk and required a neck brace) as well as rope up his kid and try to kill another if I remember correctly. All in all, the book had a good message but it also had some potentially scary moments as well as some fairly mature topics. That was a book assigned by a Lutheran private elementary and middle school of all things.
Some of the books I remember from 5th and 6th grade were considerably worse as well, though those were probably marketed towards older kids by the publishers even if the schools didn't mind them being read by younger children.
Supposedly Rowling didn't have any age range in mind while writing but the first Harry Potter was initially marketed towards children ages 9 to 11 as a choice by the publisher. The books did get progressively more mature though and the target audience grew much wider.
If it makes any difference, in the story I'm writing(really need to think up a title already:P) magic is also consistent throughout and the use of swords is exclusively used in combination with magic. I do see the concern however that waving around swords is more easily imitated by kids, but then again how many younger kids don't already wave around any pole shaped object and pretend it's a sword?
The age may change as I get more written and I would like it to be something still enjoyable for that 13-15 age range. Of course, the publishers will have final say on who they want to market towards. As for length, my current plans do seem to lean towards a few hundred pages, but the story can easily be broken into either 2, 3 or 7 sections. I will likely divide it into 3 parts since shorter books are more appealing to kids and easier to publish(more likely to sell, cost less to print, take up less shelf space from the book store's perspective).
Of course the only downside with breaking up the story is that if it doesn't sell, I would never get the remaining parts published. Although I guess I could fall back on an e-book publication if I just really wanted to make the remaining bit public.
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Sounds like a very interesting book though. I would love to read any of it if you have some done or just some thoughts and ideas. While I am going to school to be a teacher, I plan on doing the cliche and trying to write books as well. Being a teacher just gives me a steady pay check.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
But, keep on keepin' on. I admire your pursuit, and I hope that it comes to fruition!
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
It's a good point, and I'll consider it further when I get to the step of writing to agents and/or publishers. I think I'll keep the younger age group in mind while writing however, otherwise I'm likely to go a more mature route(late teens and up), which I don't want for this particular story. The other two ideas will probably be more mature fantasy stories though(similar audience as the Sin War books in terms of maturity).
I only have short snippets done at the moment and am still fleshing out the plot. I have most of it planned but still need to do most of the writing and a heck of a lot of refining. Once it starts getting polished, I may send around some samples.
I think you'll find teaching can be a lot of fun, though like any job, you do have to put up with plenty of bs administrative stuff. It's a pretty good profession to go into if you still want spare time for other hobbies/interests(generally work under 200 days a year).
Yeah, I always came up with ideas and started writing when I was a little kid but for whatever reason stopped trying eventually. Recently I just decided to do it and with enough planning, mapping out stories before jumping in headfirst, etc. I think I can do it. I think having multiple projects to switch between helps me too.
The mother of a couple kids I tutor has something like 4 books published and from what I've read, her stuff isn't at all original or well written(not terrible, just not great). Granted, she is doing non-fiction touchy-feely advice stuff, but it still gives me hope that it can't be that hard to get something written and published.
Also, the books I've seen kids be required to read in middle school(some books meant to be as low as 3rd grade level) really aren't very good most of the time. Normally when the kids have to pick a book, the boys seem to dismiss most of them as either too girly or just boring.
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
By the time I was ten, I honestly can't say that I - nor anyone I knew - would not be able to distinguish fiction from reality (especially if he is intending to incorporate magic). That being said, I think that by then the majority of children will have better sense than to grab a sharp object and stab someone with them just because some characters in a book did it once or twice. It sounds to me like sToaster is planning on putting a fair amount of emphasis on proper usage/handling of the weapons as well and giving the reverence that far too many authors ignore (people who own weapons generally care quite a bit about them).
This being said, I certainly recognize the potential for trouble with even mild violence in children's literature/media. There's always the slim chance that a child will get the wrong idea and try to imitate it, but there's not much can be done about that. These days, media is so accessible (and so much is available to children) that I doubt a story focusing on characters who possess swords will be the worst thing they will see/read in a day. All they need to do is watch the news / the latest rap video / family guy, etc.
Personally, I'd rather have kids reading something with a little violence in it than nothing at all, and if that's what it takes to get them to put down the DS and pick up a book, so be it. :/
[/end rant]
I would certainly let my child at that age read a book with violence but only because I know I would take the time to explain to them the situation and everything that goes into it.
That said...
There better be an Asian kid with a Katana.
EDIT: NM get political. Put thte Katana with a Hispanic kid. dum...dum..dummm
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
<3