First of all, learn to spell, and to type proper english.
That out of the way, I disagree with you greatly. Though Paladins are great in hammerdin build in PvM, PvP wasn't as handy, and to be honest ANY character can own at PvM. They were merely exploited into a cookie cutter build.
As far as WoW is concerned, Paladins have always either been a tanking or healing class. We were worthless as a Dps class. Go ahead, try rolling a Retribution Pally before patch 2.3. You would have been laughed at. Since the patch we were OP'ed, and gradually brought down. We're not OP'ed anymore.
I never got extremely deep into WC3, however my paladin did get to lvl 6-8, and he did die. *shrugs*
For someone who finds Paladins extremely distasteful, I find it funny that you went through all the painstaking hours of leveling one on WoW. Paladins are a fan favorite, that is why they keep popping up. What, your gonna say sorcerers/mages are also "fetishes"? Grow up.
And just a suggestion:
Next time a pally is mopping the floor with you, whether it be on D2 or WoW, cry more.
Wow, you really got a lot of pent up anger to release it seems. The dude was making a simple remark and your jumping on him like a rabid dog. If you have a heated point of view to make, go ahead but please, try not to attack people over their grammar and give discourteous comments. It's childish and really unnecessary. No one is attacking you personally, have the civility to return the favor and stay polite.
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I do however agree on the fact that Paladins are not too overpowered when it comes to Blizz games. They do have their uses, which is mostly a melee fighter/support character. They are not universally capable in every situation. e.g. Paladins do not pose any real threat at long range, nor do they possess significantly strong offensive magic. (Obviously, excluding Blessed Hammers from D2). But of course this is just my point of view.
PS: Could be important to note that I've never played WoW.
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
That out of the way, I disagree with you greatly. Though Paladins are great in hammerdin build in PvM, PvP wasn't as handy, and to be honest ANY character can own at PvM. They were merely exploited into a cookie cutter build.
Most classes cannot solo uber diablo whereas the hammerdin can do it with his hands tied behind his back. Even a top level sorc has some creature groups that can overwhelm and kill her, so they will usually just quit out of those games. The hammerdin doesnt have any such groups that are particularly bothersome. Nobody can rush or mf as fast and safely as a hammerdin. So yeah, the other classes can own PvM...but not as fast and safely as the hammerdin can, and not for the uber bosses like the hammerdin can.
At the risk of repeating several other things I will say this.
WC3 pally was not overpowered. He was probably the best support with shield+heal, but he didnt do enough damage to be scary.
Diablo 2 pally was overpowered for one skill. Other than that skill it was a fun class to play that was not overpowered.
WoW pally has limitations and cryptonite just like any class. It is and probably always will be a game where each character has obvious weaknesses as well as obvious strengths. That's how they encourage diversity in instances. Its good for PvE but makes PvP frustrating imo.
That all said...pally in d2 greatly differs from the other pallys due to lack of heals which is a major part of the wow and wc3 paladins. So actually yes its pointless to bring them up here.
A hammerdin in uber tristram would have some serious issues indeed. Its been a while but the hammerdins main life saver is redemption and i do beleive all the mobs in uber t. evaporate or something upon death. I've beaten uber tristram solo with 2 types of builds, my hybrid barba and my zeal/smite hybrid pally. I've seen a kick assassin do it too though.
The barbarian had some issues but the pally did whipe the floor with them. Not because he is "overpowered" but i made that character strictly for the ubers so he had the gear and the build specifically to tank and kill them. I just dont see a hammerdin being able to solo uber tristram without an absurd amount of full rejuves which any class with decent dmg skill and alot of health can do with those.
I think the OP is just venting at a few overpowered builds and they indeed were there. I have had a hammerdin before and its crazy when you can go into a full room baal run in hell and go to chaos sanctuary mowing mobs down without even coming close to dying...but thats more to do with gear and a few over powered skills than the class itself. Hammerdin was great for gathering keys for uber trist and for me pretty damn fun to play on (except maggot lair :D). I never used him in pvp though for obvious reasons.
I dont mind a paladin-like character coming back..its a matter of balancing the skills not trashing the entire class for some miscalculations. I suppose it doesnt matter as the pally isnt coming back in d3. Although it would be nice to have a class like it wearing a shield. Zeal IMO was one of the coolest skills for a melee char when maxed out with good gear hehe. I highly doubt that blizzard will make such a mistake in d3...too much is riding on it and they know what needs fixing from d2..we'll just have to wait and see :).
Seth
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i dont think blizzard necessassarily has some paladin fetish
more of paladins just fitting into warcraf and diablo.
im sure that paladins will be npcs atleast in d3.
and im sure that even though where there will not be something called "paladin"
there will be something that is obviously a paladin.
Who the hell cares if theres a paladin as lonlg as its balanced this time around? duuuuurrrrrrrr.......It hardly matters if theres no pally or not since something will eventually come out on top and be overpowered....
Who the hell cares if theres a paladin as lonlg as its balanced this time around? duuuuurrrrrrrr.......It hardly matters if theres no pally or not since something will eventually come out on top and be overpowered....
Exactly.
Blizzard has recognized the flaws in D2 since it was released and has tried somewhat to fix the problems. However, there's only so much to be fixed before a complete rewrite is in order. Might as well just make a new game and learn from previous mistakes(Diablo 3?). It can be called a pally or any other name but the underlying change that fixes the problem isn't going to by naming it "not a paladin," but by changing the way that kind of character progresses. I.E. not overpowering a class designed to take and receive massive amounts of damage(which by definition is overpowered? implementation is key and that's Blizzard's problem to figure out)
Blizzard has recognized the flaws in D2 since it was released and has tried somewhat to fix the problems. However, there's only so much to be fixed before a complete rewrite is in order. Might as well just make a new game and learn from previous mistakes(Diablo 3?). It can be called a pally or any other name but the underlying change that fixes the problem isn't going to by naming it "not a paladin," but by changing the way that kind of character progresses. I.E. not overpowering a class designed to take and receive massive amounts of damage(which by definition is overpowered? implementation is key and that's Blizzard's problem to figure out)
Could not of said it better myself.
The one thing i always found very odd about the OP skills in d2 was that while some were OP because of there mechanics(remember guided arrow piercing back and forth in duels...) and maybe difficult to fix but they managed to do it, but the skills on the paladin that are OP is hammers and smite mainly because they do absurd amounts of unresistable damage.....making them more balanced is literally as simple as going into the code and changing the numbers....yet they wont do it..makes NO sence to me....
Just had to chime in hear. Paladins per se were never historically all that powerful. Back in 1.09 and before Paladins were actually quite rare. The popular melee was the Barb, and Druid. In fact more often you would use a Barb, or Windforce equipped Amazon to take down Baal or Diablo.
Only when 1.10 runewords, synergies, etc.. came out did the Paladin become more popular. But it should be said the 'hammerdin' I don't think was ever meant to be that powerful.
But RPGs have always had some form of Paladin type character, and I fully expect D3 will also. In almost every RPG type game or stories the characters like Wizard, Sorcerer, Amazon, etc. have always been relegated to supporting characters. Going back years before D1 the paladin type char use to be the main and often only character. In most of these games the paladin would do most of the fighting with the other chars mainly assisting.
I've been playing on and off since .08 and there have been a lot of changes in the game, in .08 all the chars were balanced, the sorc could beat the barb in pvp, the zon or charger pally could take the sorc, zon and pally were beaten by the barb, the necro was the only weak pvp char, then came the druid and azn, where the druid was similar to the barb and the azn was the only logical choice for lvl 9 dueling...patches came then the synergies came out and in case everyone forgot the necro also became uber godly (before they took out the boots bug) you could make a hybrid necro to own the whole game much safer and easier than a hammerdin...u summon about 10-11 skeletons and a golem whichever u prefered they acted as a buffer b/w u and the monsters and u shot bone spear at all of them, and if someone was immune to magic easy wait till ur merc killed one person or ur skeles then corpse explosion would take care of everything...there is also the druid he can go through hell as easily as the pally if u became a magic druid with the heart of the oak ur life was amazing...yes the pally is over powered but there are other chars that can easily go through hell, if u build a light sorc the right way u can go through hell easily with chain lightning (u need an infinity merc), diablo 2 was first and foremost made to be a cooperative player game, there are many difficult areas but there are classes that are far supperior to each other based on every act, i played hardcore so dieing was not an option, i had to create chars for every act (and some for certain quests or mfing e.x. nilathak) for act 1 the sorc was the ideal char a fcr sorc could whipe out andy easily, act 2 getting the ammy a nigma barb to deal with the vipers and duriel, act 3 if u didnt want to die an ik barb could easily whipe the council, then a necro to tele to mephisto with all his minions so no dolls can attack u and then whipe meph out with bone spirit, act 4 which is the hardest act u needed a cold zon, not the cut build of multi stike...with a fanta equiped merc u ruled act 4 nothing could stop u whereas the hammerdin could die, act 5 i believe all chars could hell baal (ive never played an azn so idk) druid can tele there sorc can tele there, hammerdin can tele but to sweep through baal ive never seen any char do it as fast as the javazon....if u look at it every char can be uber godly vs pvm...if u pvp and u use anything but the barb then u surely will die, u cant just say take out the pally bc he is overpowered bc thats retarded i agree with everyone who said balance the pally out, but to be honest my first char was a zealot and i was happy buying weapons from charsi then one day i found the might Lightsaber and boy was i the happiest kid alive zealing everything with my lightsaber then wondering why i died playing against the knights in act 4
I've been playing on and off since .08 and there have been a lot of changes in the game, in .08 all the chars were balanced, the sorc could beat the barb in pvp, the zon or charger pally could take the sorc, zon and pally were beaten by the barb, the necro was the only weak pvp char, then came the druid and azn, where the druid was similar to the barb and the azn was the only logical choice for lvl 9 dueling...patches came then the synergies came out and in case everyone forgot the necro also became uber godly (before they took out the boots bug) you could make a hybrid necro to own the whole game much safer and easier than a hammerdin...u summon about 10-11 skeletons and a golem whichever u prefered they acted as a buffer b/w u and the monsters and u shot bone spear at all of them, and if someone was immune to magic easy wait till ur merc killed one person or ur skeles then corpse explosion would take care of everything...there is also the druid he can go through hell as easily as the pally if u became a magic druid with the heart of the oak ur life was amazing...yes the pally is over powered but there are other chars that can easily go through hell, if u build a light sorc the right way u can go through hell easily with chain lightning (u need an infinity merc), diablo 2 was first and foremost made to be a cooperative player game, there are many difficult areas but there are classes that are far supperior to each other based on every act, i played hardcore so dieing was not an option, i had to create chars for every act (and some for certain quests or mfing e.x. nilathak) for act 1 the sorc was the ideal char a fcr sorc could whipe out andy easily, act 2 getting the ammy a nigma barb to deal with the vipers and duriel, act 3 if u didnt want to die an ik barb could easily whipe the council, then a necro to tele to mephisto with all his minions so no dolls can attack u and then whipe meph out with bone spirit, act 4 which is the hardest act u needed a cold zon, not the cut build of multi stike...with a fanta equiped merc u ruled act 4 nothing could stop u whereas the hammerdin could die, act 5 i believe all chars could hell baal (ive never played an azn so idk) druid can tele there sorc can tele there, hammerdin can tele but to sweep through baal ive never seen any char do it as fast as the javazon....if u look at it every char can be uber godly vs pvm...if u pvp and u use anything but the barb then u surely will die, u cant just say take out the pally bc he is overpowered bc thats retarded i agree with everyone who said balance the pally out, but to be honest my first char was a zealot and i was happy buying weapons from charsi then one day i found the might Lightsaber and boy was i the happiest kid alive zealing everything with my lightsaber then wondering why i died playing against the knights in act 4
I will read this if you make make it a little more easy to read....seriously if your gonna post something this long use paragraphs.........
I've been playing on and off since .08 and there have been a lot of changes in the game, in .08 all the chars were balanced, the sorc could beat the barb in pvp, the zon or charger pally could take the sorc, zon and pally were beaten by the barb, the necro was the only weak pvp char, then came the druid and azn, where the druid was similar to the barb and the azn was the only logical choice for lvl 9 dueling...patches came then the synergies came out and in case everyone forgot the necro also became uber godly (before they took out the boots bug) you could make a hybrid necro to own the whole game much safer and easier than a hammerdin...u summon about 10-11 skeletons and a golem whichever u prefered they acted as a buffer b/w u and the monsters and u shot bone spear at all of them, and if someone was immune to magic easy wait till ur merc killed one person or ur skeles then corpse explosion would take care of everything...there is also the druid he can go through hell as easily as the pally if u became a magic druid with the heart of the oak ur life was amazing...yes the pally is over powered but there are other chars that can easily go through hell, if u build a light sorc the right way u can go through hell easily with chain lightning (u need an infinity merc), diablo 2 was first and foremost made to be a cooperative player game, there are many difficult areas but there are classes that are far supperior to each other based on every act, i played hardcore so dieing was not an option, i had to create chars for every act (and some for certain quests or mfing e.x. nilathak) for act 1 the sorc was the ideal char a fcr sorc could whipe out andy easily, act 2 getting the ammy a nigma barb to deal with the vipers and duriel, act 3 if u didnt want to die an ik barb could easily whipe the council, then a necro to tele to mephisto with all his minions so no dolls can attack u and then whipe meph out with bone spirit, act 4 which is the hardest act u needed a cold zon, not the cut build of multi stike...with a fanta equiped merc u ruled act 4 nothing could stop u whereas the hammerdin could die, act 5 i believe all chars could hell baal (ive never played an azn so idk) druid can tele there sorc can tele there, hammerdin can tele but to sweep through baal ive never seen any char do it as fast as the javazon....if u look at it every char can be uber godly vs pvm...if u pvp and u use anything but the barb then u surely will die, u cant just say take out the pally bc he is overpowered bc thats retarded i agree with everyone who said balance the pally out, but to be honest my first char was a zealot and i was happy buying weapons from charsi then one day i found the might Lightsaber and boy was i the happiest kid alive zealing everything with my lightsaber then wondering why i died playing against the knights in act 4
thats what i call a wall of words o.O
I don't think a elemental druid could do hell p8 alone. Even with amazing summons, their spells were to weak to take minion of destruction down.
I really don't believe anyclass but a hammer din can kill baal in a viable time alone in hell p8.
A summon necro could do if you could summon inside tod.
I don't think a elemental druid could do hell p8 alone. Even with amazing summons, their spells were to weak to take minion of destruction down.
I really don't believe anyclass but a hammer din can kill baal in a viable time alone in hell p8.
A summon necro could do if you could summon inside tod.
What are you talking about? Almost any character with average gear could easily solo all of hell cept immunes of course....but thats what a merc is for.....and a druid not being able to minion down? What game you playing man? seriously
What are you talking about? Almost any character with average gear could easily solo all of hell cept immunes of course....but thats what a merc is for.....and a druid not being able to minion down? What game you playing man? seriously
I didn't say the classes couldn't solo hEll. I said only pally and summon necro could solo hell in P8 (PLAYERS 8). And YES only hammerdins and summon nec could hell in p8. Thats a fact.
I like the idea of having a religion-based character. But I agree that the paladin was too overpowering in pvp and pvm in Diablo 2. So I want it to come back, but not so poweful.
I like the idea of having a religion-based character. But I agree that the paladin was too overpowering in pvp and pvm in Diablo 2. So I want it to come back, but so poweful.
Yeah same here.....theres no reason to not have a paladin.....but theres a lot of reasons to NOT have a character build that dominates every aspect of the game like the hammerdin and smiters did in diablo 2...
Yeah same here.....theres no reason to not have a paladin.....but theres a lot of reasons to NOT have a character build that dominates every aspect of the game like the hammerdin and smiters did in diablo 2...
well in classic they could easily be taken down because all they did was desynch dunno bout xpack tho
in classic they wernt overpowered at all once u bone prison them there done
it doesnt matter though blizzard learned there lesson from d2: lod and they know not to overpower the next pally based class
well in classic they could easily be taken down because all they did was desynch dunno bout xpack tho
in classic they wernt overpowered at all once u bone prison them there done
it doesnt matter though blizzard learned there lesson from d2: lod and they know not to overpower the next pally based class
For sure they defiently learned there lesson with diablo 2. And while they could and did desynch in LOD they used nigma to teleport(like many other lod builds) and that made a hdin ridiclous....smiters to
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Wow, you really got a lot of pent up anger to release it seems. The dude was making a simple remark and your jumping on him like a rabid dog. If you have a heated point of view to make, go ahead but please, try not to attack people over their grammar and give discourteous comments. It's childish and really unnecessary. No one is attacking you personally, have the civility to return the favor and stay polite.
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I do however agree on the fact that Paladins are not too overpowered when it comes to Blizz games. They do have their uses, which is mostly a melee fighter/support character. They are not universally capable in every situation. e.g. Paladins do not pose any real threat at long range, nor do they possess significantly strong offensive magic. (Obviously, excluding Blessed Hammers from D2). But of course this is just my point of view.
PS: Could be important to note that I've never played WoW.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Most classes cannot solo uber diablo whereas the hammerdin can do it with his hands tied behind his back. Even a top level sorc has some creature groups that can overwhelm and kill her, so they will usually just quit out of those games. The hammerdin doesnt have any such groups that are particularly bothersome. Nobody can rush or mf as fast and safely as a hammerdin. So yeah, the other classes can own PvM...but not as fast and safely as the hammerdin can, and not for the uber bosses like the hammerdin can.
WC3 pally was not overpowered. He was probably the best support with shield+heal, but he didnt do enough damage to be scary.
Diablo 2 pally was overpowered for one skill. Other than that skill it was a fun class to play that was not overpowered.
WoW pally has limitations and cryptonite just like any class. It is and probably always will be a game where each character has obvious weaknesses as well as obvious strengths. That's how they encourage diversity in instances. Its good for PvE but makes PvP frustrating imo.
That all said...pally in d2 greatly differs from the other pallys due to lack of heals which is a major part of the wow and wc3 paladins. So actually yes its pointless to bring them up here.
The barbarian had some issues but the pally did whipe the floor with them. Not because he is "overpowered" but i made that character strictly for the ubers so he had the gear and the build specifically to tank and kill them. I just dont see a hammerdin being able to solo uber tristram without an absurd amount of full rejuves which any class with decent dmg skill and alot of health can do with those.
I think the OP is just venting at a few overpowered builds and they indeed were there. I have had a hammerdin before and its crazy when you can go into a full room baal run in hell and go to chaos sanctuary mowing mobs down without even coming close to dying...but thats more to do with gear and a few over powered skills than the class itself. Hammerdin was great for gathering keys for uber trist and for me pretty damn fun to play on (except maggot lair :D). I never used him in pvp though for obvious reasons.
I dont mind a paladin-like character coming back..its a matter of balancing the skills not trashing the entire class for some miscalculations. I suppose it doesnt matter as the pally isnt coming back in d3. Although it would be nice to have a class like it wearing a shield. Zeal IMO was one of the coolest skills for a melee char when maxed out with good gear hehe. I highly doubt that blizzard will make such a mistake in d3...too much is riding on it and they know what needs fixing from d2..we'll just have to wait and see :).
Seth
more of paladins just fitting into warcraf and diablo.
im sure that paladins will be npcs atleast in d3.
and im sure that even though where there will not be something called "paladin"
there will be something that is obviously a paladin.
Exactly.
Blizzard has recognized the flaws in D2 since it was released and has tried somewhat to fix the problems. However, there's only so much to be fixed before a complete rewrite is in order. Might as well just make a new game and learn from previous mistakes(Diablo 3?). It can be called a pally or any other name but the underlying change that fixes the problem isn't going to by naming it "not a paladin," but by changing the way that kind of character progresses. I.E. not overpowering a class designed to take and receive massive amounts of damage(which by definition is overpowered? implementation is key and that's Blizzard's problem to figure out)
Could not of said it better myself.
The one thing i always found very odd about the OP skills in d2 was that while some were OP because of there mechanics(remember guided arrow piercing back and forth in duels...) and maybe difficult to fix but they managed to do it, but the skills on the paladin that are OP is hammers and smite mainly because they do absurd amounts of unresistable damage.....making them more balanced is literally as simple as going into the code and changing the numbers....yet they wont do it..makes NO sence to me....
Only when 1.10 runewords, synergies, etc.. came out did the Paladin become more popular. But it should be said the 'hammerdin' I don't think was ever meant to be that powerful.
But RPGs have always had some form of Paladin type character, and I fully expect D3 will also. In almost every RPG type game or stories the characters like Wizard, Sorcerer, Amazon, etc. have always been relegated to supporting characters. Going back years before D1 the paladin type char use to be the main and often only character. In most of these games the paladin would do most of the fighting with the other chars mainly assisting.
So we have:
I think this solves the problem with skills like hammer.
I will read this if you make make it a little more easy to read....seriously if your gonna post something this long use paragraphs.........
thats what i call a wall of words o.O
I don't think a elemental druid could do hell p8 alone. Even with amazing summons, their spells were to weak to take minion of destruction down.
I really don't believe anyclass but a hammer din can kill baal in a viable time alone in hell p8.
A summon necro could do if you could summon inside tod.
What are you talking about? Almost any character with average gear could easily solo all of hell cept immunes of course....but thats what a merc is for.....and a druid not being able to minion down? What game you playing man? seriously
I didn't say the classes couldn't solo hEll. I said only pally and summon necro could solo hell in P8 (PLAYERS 8). And YES only hammerdins and summon nec could hell in p8. Thats a fact.
Yeah same here.....theres no reason to not have a paladin.....but theres a lot of reasons to NOT have a character build that dominates every aspect of the game like the hammerdin and smiters did in diablo 2...
well in classic they could easily be taken down because all they did was desynch dunno bout xpack tho
in classic they wernt overpowered at all once u bone prison them there done
it doesnt matter though blizzard learned there lesson from d2: lod and they know not to overpower the next pally based class
For sure they defiently learned there lesson with diablo 2. And while they could and did desynch in LOD they used nigma to teleport(like many other lod builds) and that made a hdin ridiclous....smiters to