There we go with the same argument again. I know what Blizzard said and I know what the majority wants. I have been listening for example I do believe with inferno and the expansions could keep the game running a long time. You cannot tell me though that doing all that would be easier to do than add some competitive PvP features, that would have the same affect and for less. I also agree with Blizzard's idea for hostility (even though i wouldnt care if hey added it). Just like you have agreed to having different arena modes.
There we go with the same argument again. I know what Blizzard said and I know what the majority wants. I have been listening for example I do believe with inferno and the expansions could keep the game running a long time. You cannot tell me though that doing all that would be easier to do than add some competitive PvP features, that would have the same affect and for less. I also agree with Blizzard's idea for hostility (even though i wouldnt care if hey added it). Just like you have agreed to having different arena modes.
Its not easier to add competitive PvP when it goes against the design of the game. Especially when such features would give the impression that they intend on supporting competitive PvP, when they don't. Essentially it would be time and resources spent on something that is counter~productive to their overall goals for the game. What possible reason would they have to do that?
The only reason that I'm forced to repeat myself and cite the same arguments is because they don't seem to be sinking in.
You know what I meant. I was saying that to add certain PvP features would take less time and money to do than two whole expansions and content updates. They game is already so close I being a great eSpors game. I would know I allready played the PvP. That is all I am telling you and the fact that it could only make the game better.
You know what I meant. I was saying that to add certain PvP features would take less time and money to do than two whole expansions and content updates. They game is already so close I being a great eSpors game. I would know I allready played the PvP. That is all I am telling you and the fact that it could only make the game better.
Blizzard doesn't agree. Myself and many others agree with Blizzard. There are too many factors you could not possible know about by playing a preview of the Arena. If Blizzard felt they would benefit by supporting eSports, don't you think they would do so? They are a AAA game company that has produced games that top the market for the genre....
How could you possible 'know' it'd make the game better as well? Consider a vast majority of their players don't want it, while the same people ARE interested in Arena. It seems like switching gears and going competitive would actually hurt the game. So, I cannot really see how it would 'help' other then catering to a small group of players that cannot be happy with casual PvP...
Yep... and that's where I disagree and I am not going to change my mind no matter what you our Blizzaed says. The only thing that would change my mind is if Blizzard tries their best to make it an eSports and it fails. If your so convinced that it would be a bad eSports then all they have to do is try.
Yep... and that's where I disagree and I am not going to change my mind no matter what you our Blizzaed says. The only thing that would change my mind is if Blizzard tries their best to make it an eSports and it fails. If your so convinced that it would be a bad eSports then all they have to do is try.
And waste development time and money? Do you not think they did analysis and research into how their choice would impact things? Expecting them to just say...well our research says this would be a bad idea, but let's do it anyway just to see?... That's a pretty ridiculous viewpoint you have there.. I must say.
Yep... and that's where I disagree and I am not going to change my mind no matter what you our Blizzaed says. The only thing that would change my mind is if Blizzard tries their best to make it an eSports and it fails. If your so convinced that it would be a bad eSports then all they have to do is try.
It makes no sense to disagree. Blizz is not putting effort into balancing the game around PvP, so no, it will never make a good (or viable) esport. It will never will be a good eSport because the devs will never design it as one, so whether or not it could be if X, Y, and Z were done is irrelevant; it is not reality.
It looked like it would be a great eSports to me all the have to do is give us our rankings and we can take the rest from there. Also I think Blizzards stance on that is also ridiculous. Why because it would cause people to become elitists or bullies? If your to sensitive to get emotionally hurt by someone in a game then you shouldn't be playing them. They are going to be their anyway. When I was a child my mom would tell me to ignore what my brothers said. It is not like, because it is competitive that you have to be competitive. You can treat it as casual as you want it and ingnore the elitist. For children they have a thing called language filter. As long as people can communicate with each other there will be bullies/elitist and straight up assholes.
As for it not being designed to be an eSports, you have no idea. This is where I come in and other who have played the PvP tell you about it. Go read my other forum "My PvP exsperiance" it tell you all about it. A whole lot of games started out not being designed for eSports but turned out to be great ones WoW and SC included. Don't come in here tell me it won't be a good eSports because it is not designed to be. The only thing from keeping it from being a great eSports is Blizzard.
It looked like it would be a great eSports to me all the have to do is give us our rankings and we can take the rest from there. Also I think Blizzards stance on that is also ridiculous. Why because it would cause people to become elitists or bullies? If your to sensitive to get emotionally hurt by someone in a game then you shouldn't be playing them. They are going to be their anyway. When I was a child my mom would tell me to ignore what my brothers said. It is not like, because it is competitive that you have to be competitive. You can treat it as casual as you want it and ingnore the elitist. For children they have a thing called language filter. As long as people can communicate with each other there will be bullies/elitist and straight up assholes.
As for it not being designed to be an eSports, you have no idea. This is where I come in and other who have played the PvP tell you about it. Go read my other forum "My PvP exsperiance" it tell you all about it. A whole lot of games started out not being designed for eSports but turned out to be great ones WoW and SC included. Don't come in here tell me it won't be a good eSports because it is not designed to be. The only thing from keeping it from being a great eSports is Blizzard.
WoW being focused towards eSports actually destroyed a lot of the PvM, actually. So stating that it turned out a great eSport...isn't really a good thing.
Its not all about bullying and such either. I've already explained why and now you focus on something else. The reasons were presented and I guess you're ignoring them now? Honestly, it doesn't matter how it 'could be'. What matters is what it 'will' be and Blizzard has made their point very clear. Not every game needs to be focused around eSports. In fact, the majority of gamers now days are actually more casual. The whole ecosystem of gaming is changing...
Well, majority of players will not finish the game 4 times. Not many casual players finish their games on high difficulty. Still they went to alot of effort to create thoes difficulties for minority. Same goes for hardcore mode. Majority of the playerbase will not use RMAH either. Please stop acting like the voice of majority. Most parts of this game were not made for casual players, so if you are one, you probably won't last till release of PvP anyway.
You don't think casual players will actually play through inferno? What?! Just because we prefer a more casual gameplay style doesn't mean we don't like challenges. Sorry, but a lot of casual players are interested in Inferno. Quite a few casual players are also interested in the RMAH. Oh... and quite a few casual players are also interested in the Arena PvP. This game focuses around co~op play and is designed around the idea of people playing for fun, not trying to compete (no ladders remember)....
We can only speculate, that's right. But usually some players are a lot better than the devs... Also they said Inferno will be soloable, thus a 4 man team with good teamwork will have an easier time.
Not necessarily, in coop the content scales up accordingly with the number of additional players.
Thanks to all of those supporting me in this thread. I hope you know the one thing in our way is Blizzards unwillingness to support a major part of Diablo 3, the PvP. Also the people who believe whatever Blizzard says. I think that is bad management on their part, because if they don't the game won't be able to flourish. That us why I created thus thread to convince people of this and through them Blizzard.
I have never posted anything I would go back on. I support both PvE and PvP and believe you can have competitive PvP without affecting the rest if the game. You guys seem to overlook the fact that you are greatly affecting the PvP.
As for the specifics of balancing the game without nerfing the PvE, Blizzard can do it but is not going to do so because of ridiculous reasons. Such as it is "confusing to the players" and is insulting to the community.
I have watched and played the PvP and I am certain it would make a great eSports, to play and to watch. Once everyone plays it I think they would feel the same.
When the PvP comes out I will enjoy talking about every detail about how and why it will make a good eSport when others can also experience the PvP and not feel satisfied about it.
If your not here to support this thread then you must be greedy PvE'ers. Seriously you already have the game for a whole year without PvP. You already have your Inferno and your two expansions that will come out. What more could you want that you are already given? All we want is a fully functioning PvP system, not some half-ass casual crap. Instead of respecting the thread on the PVP FOURMS and trying to support it, you come in here with only one solid argument, "Blizzard said so". I don't go to your threads and say "inferno is not casual enough" or some other crap just to make you mad. Frankly you guys are killing the game. Will it be good? Ya. Will it be great? Not by a long shot. Without competitive PvP I doubt they will get past the first expansion or even that far. They got their golden egg and they don't want to share.
If Jay Wilson would have said "ya it is going to be a very competitive PvP", there would be no threads on "why can't it be a casual PvP". I could point all the blame towards Jay Wilson but really it is all of you people who listen to that crap.
1 - It will cost them more money
2 - Concept of balance is a problem of at least 10 degrees of non-linearity, meaning you will at least need 10 solutions super-imposed to satisfy these equilibrium points.
Ex: Right now, Barbarian is the weakest class in sustaining a proper burst without sacrificing an important Passive with Wizard having a ridiculous amount of burst and Monk having an insane amount of survivability.
3 - Combine the above two with the fact that they either need to;
a ) Make a separate class design for PvP
b ) Don't bother with (a) and butcher PvE for the sake of balance, while choosing whether to change the whole game systems or not for not breaking the game.
In the end, it means more and more money to spend on it, and the game not having such a legacy in PvPing they choose not to.
I am a greedy PvE'er when you are an imbecile of a PvPer trying to ruin the game I have been waiting for years due your blind Gladiatorism that you can satisfy anywhere with your CoD or BF series. Take your epeen-based gaming elsewhere, probably Titan will be a game to satify such players.
Well, majority of players will not finish the game 4 times. Not many casual players finish their games on high difficulty. Still they went to alot of effort to create thoes difficulties for minority. Same goes for hardcore mode. Majority of the playerbase will not use RMAH either. Please stop acting like the voice of majority. Most parts of this game were not made for casual players, so if you are one, you probably won't last till release of PvP anyway.
Once again the genre of players labeled as being "casual" is recognized as many things, however, the ones not attempting challenges not really one of them. In WoW, the concept of casual play spans from the fact that they cannot really organize their life around a game due to required co-op play.
However, for Diablo the game is equivalently a solo-game as it is a co-op game.
TL;DR: Just because I play the game for 3-4 hours a week does not indicate that I won't be climbing way up to the Inferno level Diablo.
You can say exactly the same for most hard-core PvE'rs, whining about content, class balance and acting like complete morons because they clear things other do.
By the way, the new trend "go against critics" is the most retarded thing i had ever seen. If it's a bad critic you can just dismantle it, if it's a good one you just dismissed it for ... nothing else than being a critic.
There will be PvP, that's a fact. Blizzard won't focus on PvP while balancing the game, that's another fact (but we can tell, there would be some kind of balance on CC on players, ofc, that doesn't affect PvM). Anyways, what do we want ? People who enjoy doing the e-sport'esque should be able to create their customs(and nlizzard should do it, because who the frag doesn't want to have some laughs playing against their friends, just because some guys would try to emulate an e-sport you are going to remove that possibility ? I'm sorry Bashiok, normally you are a cool dude, but that was just a dumb thing to say). That way they will be able to do their ladders on d3foresportdotcom, events or whatever they want to do.
They whine about balance? Who cares, blizzard won't listen so your PvM is intact, and you know it, they know it, and their moms also know it, so it won't affect you how they play the game. It's even better for PvM players who can sell the best items to those diehard PvP'ers. I mean, having more things isn't a bad thing, it's a freaking win win scenario as far i'm concerned.
Its not as simple as you think. On the surface, sure.. they could do just as you state. However, by offering more eSport~focused features they create an impression that they are supporting eSports. This causes tournament providers to have an expectation that Blizzard is supporting eSport~level PvP. It honestly just creates a ton of unneeded pressure and confusion in the community.
It ends up being a much better option to just outright deny eSport support, not implement eSport~focused features, and focus the game more towards a co~op experience with casual PvP. Creating confusing only ends up leading to continual bad press as they have to continually explain why they do not wish to balance PvP, etc. It really just isn't a good move for them.
I don't know if they said that they will turn Diablo 3 into an Esport if every one supported it. But it would be cool to have it.
The opposite. They will never balance it for eSports.
exactly...its pretty much impossible.
1st off the gear isn't even, and that is huge. Its not a real competition unless you are on equal playing field. Even if they made a special server where everyone was equal, it wouldn't matter one bit because the classes aren't equal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Custom games are not an e-sport feature. The end.
You are basicly saying no to custom pvp to play with your friendsor however the frag you want.... because you are afraid that you will get to see, what ? some angrypost on the inetz? Flash news, you will get way more angry pvp balance post from the hidden MMR pvp most people will play.
Custom games are not an e-sport feature. The end.
You are basicly saying no to custom pvp to play with your friendsor however the frag you want.... because you are afraid that you will get to see, what ? some angrypost on the inetz? Flash news, you will get way more angry pvp balance post from the hidden MMR pvp most people will play.
That's dumb as shit. Yeah, it's simple.
No, I'm not saying that they shouldn't add it. I'm saying they do have reasons behind why they MIGHT NOT. A quite different thing. The reality is that Blizzard isn't even sure they will have custom games in PvP. They said IF they can get it through testing by the launch of PvP and that they are still uncertain about it in general. So, talking like it is going it exist for sure is wrong.
Dial back your anger a few notches... Its... a game.
Custom games are not an e-sport feature. The end.
You are basicly saying no to custom pvp to play with your friendsor however the frag you want.... because you are afraid that you will get to see, what ? some angrypost on the inetz? Flash news, you will get way more angry pvp balance post from the hidden MMR pvp most people will play.
That's dumb as shit. Yeah, it's simple.
No, I'm not saying that they shouldn't add it. I'm saying they do have reasons behind why they MIGHT NOT. A quite different thing. The reality is that Blizzard isn't even sure they will have custom games in PvP. They said IF they can get it through testing by the launch of PvP and that they are still uncertain about it in general. So, talking like it is going it exist for sure is wrong.
Dial back your anger a few notches... Its... a game.
On the flip side of the coin talking like it is impossible and is going to ruin the game is also wrong. You have made it painstakingly clear that you understand Blizzards views and have relayed them numerous times, we get it. Doesn't mean we can't talk about what we would like from the game, regardless of what Blizzard thinks of it.
On the flip side of the coin talking like it is impossible and is going to ruin the game is also wrong. You have made it painstakingly clear that you understand Blizzards views and have relayed them numerous times, we get it. Doesn't mean we can't talk about what we would like from the game, regardless of what Blizzard thinks of it.
On the flip side, some of us can explain why the features could be a negative influence on the game and why we feel they shouldn't be implemented. Works both ways. I never said it was impossible, what I said is acting like it will be there guaranteed is wrong. Perhaps you should instead talk about how the community could make Blizzard (and the rest of the community) more comfortable with the idea as to give it a better chance of being implemented. Seems like a productive avenue...
On the flip side of the coin talking like it is impossible and is going to ruin the game is also wrong. You have made it painstakingly clear that you understand Blizzards views and have relayed them numerous times, we get it. Doesn't mean we can't talk about what we would like from the game, regardless of what Blizzard thinks of it.
On the flip side, some of us can explain why the features could be a negative influence on the game and why we feel they shouldn't be implemented. Works both ways. I never said it was impossible, what I said is acting like it will be there guaranteed is wrong. Perhaps you should instead talk about how the community could make Blizzard (and the rest of the community) more comfortable with the idea as to give it a better chance of being implemented. Seems like a productive avenue...
Surely more productive then hounding PvP threads with radical complaints about fictional problems. Maybe I will do that.
Surely more productive then hounding PvP threads with radical complaints about fictional problems. Maybe I will do that.
Radical? I've not been complaining for the most part. Way to take things way out of context. I believe I specifically mentioned here that I am alright with custom games being added. So, where's the complaint? As for the problems, they are hardly fictional. You showcase the issue rather often with your posts alone, Adon.
Those that are of the heavily competitive nature create an environment that the rest of us tend to find poisonous or negative. Perhaps if something can be done to alleviate that, the rest of us would support more competitive~oriented features. Until then, it'll be a hard sell to the majority of the community as we only see it as harmful...
Surely more productive then hounding PvP threads with radical complaints about fictional problems. Maybe I will do that.
Radical? I've not been complaining for the most part. Way to take things way out of context. I believe I specifically mentioned here that I am alright with custom games being added. So, where's the complaint? As for the problems, they are hardly fictional. You showcase the issue rather often with your posts alone, Adon.
Those that are of the heavily competitive nature create an environment that the rest of us tend to find poisonous or negative. Perhaps if something can be done to alleviate that, the rest of us would support more competitive~oriented features. Until then, it'll be a hard sell to the majority of the community as we only see it as harmful...
What I am still hung up on is that we are the so called "minority", a minority that is so small according to you, yet you are fearful of a minority of the minority crying out for esports or balance. I don't really understand it, say you have a million customers, 250,000 of them are competitive, 25,000 of them are crying for esports or balance. So instead of adding a function that everyone can use, the complaints of a small group would ruin it for everyone. Cause Blizzard is horrible at ignoring their customers right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Its not easier to add competitive PvP when it goes against the design of the game. Especially when such features would give the impression that they intend on supporting competitive PvP, when they don't. Essentially it would be time and resources spent on something that is counter~productive to their overall goals for the game. What possible reason would they have to do that?
The only reason that I'm forced to repeat myself and cite the same arguments is because they don't seem to be sinking in.
Blizzard doesn't agree. Myself and many others agree with Blizzard. There are too many factors you could not possible know about by playing a preview of the Arena. If Blizzard felt they would benefit by supporting eSports, don't you think they would do so? They are a AAA game company that has produced games that top the market for the genre....
How could you possible 'know' it'd make the game better as well? Consider a vast majority of their players don't want it, while the same people ARE interested in Arena. It seems like switching gears and going competitive would actually hurt the game. So, I cannot really see how it would 'help' other then catering to a small group of players that cannot be happy with casual PvP...
And waste development time and money? Do you not think they did analysis and research into how their choice would impact things? Expecting them to just say...well our research says this would be a bad idea, but let's do it anyway just to see?... That's a pretty ridiculous viewpoint you have there.. I must say.
It makes no sense to disagree. Blizz is not putting effort into balancing the game around PvP, so no, it will never make a good (or viable) esport. It will never will be a good eSport because the devs will never design it as one, so whether or not it could be if X, Y, and Z were done is irrelevant; it is not reality.
As for it not being designed to be an eSports, you have no idea. This is where I come in and other who have played the PvP tell you about it. Go read my other forum "My PvP exsperiance" it tell you all about it. A whole lot of games started out not being designed for eSports but turned out to be great ones WoW and SC included. Don't come in here tell me it won't be a good eSports because it is not designed to be. The only thing from keeping it from being a great eSports is Blizzard.
WoW being focused towards eSports actually destroyed a lot of the PvM, actually. So stating that it turned out a great eSport...isn't really a good thing.
Its not all about bullying and such either. I've already explained why and now you focus on something else. The reasons were presented and I guess you're ignoring them now? Honestly, it doesn't matter how it 'could be'. What matters is what it 'will' be and Blizzard has made their point very clear. Not every game needs to be focused around eSports. In fact, the majority of gamers now days are actually more casual. The whole ecosystem of gaming is changing...
You don't think casual players will actually play through inferno? What?! Just because we prefer a more casual gameplay style doesn't mean we don't like challenges. Sorry, but a lot of casual players are interested in Inferno. Quite a few casual players are also interested in the RMAH. Oh... and quite a few casual players are also interested in the Arena PvP. This game focuses around co~op play and is designed around the idea of people playing for fun, not trying to compete (no ladders remember)....
Not necessarily, in coop the content scales up accordingly with the number of additional players.
1 - It will cost them more money
2 - Concept of balance is a problem of at least 10 degrees of non-linearity, meaning you will at least need 10 solutions super-imposed to satisfy these equilibrium points.
Ex: Right now, Barbarian is the weakest class in sustaining a proper burst without sacrificing an important Passive with Wizard having a ridiculous amount of burst and Monk having an insane amount of survivability.
3 - Combine the above two with the fact that they either need to;
a ) Make a separate class design for PvP
b ) Don't bother with (a) and butcher PvE for the sake of balance, while choosing whether to change the whole game systems or not for not breaking the game.
In the end, it means more and more money to spend on it, and the game not having such a legacy in PvPing they choose not to.
I am a greedy PvE'er when you are an imbecile of a PvPer trying to ruin the game I have been waiting for years due your blind Gladiatorism that you can satisfy anywhere with your CoD or BF series. Take your epeen-based gaming elsewhere, probably Titan will be a game to satify such players.
Once again the genre of players labeled as being "casual" is recognized as many things, however, the ones not attempting challenges not really one of them. In WoW, the concept of casual play spans from the fact that they cannot really organize their life around a game due to required co-op play.
However, for Diablo the game is equivalently a solo-game as it is a co-op game.
TL;DR: Just because I play the game for 3-4 hours a week does not indicate that I won't be climbing way up to the Inferno level Diablo.
Its not as simple as you think. On the surface, sure.. they could do just as you state. However, by offering more eSport~focused features they create an impression that they are supporting eSports. This causes tournament providers to have an expectation that Blizzard is supporting eSport~level PvP. It honestly just creates a ton of unneeded pressure and confusion in the community.
It ends up being a much better option to just outright deny eSport support, not implement eSport~focused features, and focus the game more towards a co~op experience with casual PvP. Creating confusing only ends up leading to continual bad press as they have to continually explain why they do not wish to balance PvP, etc. It really just isn't a good move for them.
1st off the gear isn't even, and that is huge. Its not a real competition unless you are on equal playing field. Even if they made a special server where everyone was equal, it wouldn't matter one bit because the classes aren't equal.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
No, I'm not saying that they shouldn't add it. I'm saying they do have reasons behind why they MIGHT NOT. A quite different thing. The reality is that Blizzard isn't even sure they will have custom games in PvP. They said IF they can get it through testing by the launch of PvP and that they are still uncertain about it in general. So, talking like it is going it exist for sure is wrong.
Dial back your anger a few notches... Its... a game.
On the flip side, some of us can explain why the features could be a negative influence on the game and why we feel they shouldn't be implemented. Works both ways. I never said it was impossible, what I said is acting like it will be there guaranteed is wrong. Perhaps you should instead talk about how the community could make Blizzard (and the rest of the community) more comfortable with the idea as to give it a better chance of being implemented. Seems like a productive avenue...
Radical? I've not been complaining for the most part. Way to take things way out of context. I believe I specifically mentioned here that I am alright with custom games being added. So, where's the complaint? As for the problems, they are hardly fictional. You showcase the issue rather often with your posts alone, Adon.
Those that are of the heavily competitive nature create an environment that the rest of us tend to find poisonous or negative. Perhaps if something can be done to alleviate that, the rest of us would support more competitive~oriented features. Until then, it'll be a hard sell to the majority of the community as we only see it as harmful...