I liked Diablo III. Borderline loved it. In fact, I may love it after Nightmare, Hell and Inferno. But, I still have some lore questions. There are some spoilers here if you haven't played through at least normal, so, please stop reading if you have not completed the game yet.
1) How the hell did Mephisto and Diablo get trapped inside the Black Soulstone? And Andariel and Duriel? In fact, how did any of them aside from Belial and Azmodan? It doesn't make sense. Mephisto and Diablo were specifically put into their Soulstones, then destroyed on the Hellforge. Baal's never was, or at least, was never said to be to my knowledge, but, still, how did he get in the Black Soulstone? I must have missed something.
2) How can the angels ally with the Nephalem at the end? It makes it seem like the angels are buddies with them, despite the fact that the Angels are just as bad as the demons towards Sanctuary. They wanted to absolutely obliterate the entire existence of Sanctuary!
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For question #2, I think it's because of the actions of your hero. You proved that a "mere mortal" can face and conquer challenges that even angels can't, plus you basically saved their holy bacon.
For question #1, I have no idea.
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i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
I'm not sure about the first one, but for the second one I can make an easy explanation for you.
Angels and Nephalem may be enemies, but when both their existances are threatened they are going to stand together and fight even if it means becoming enemies once again after.
It may seem like they are buddy buddy now, but you never know what could come in a future expansion/game.
For #1 you might be better off asking on the Blizzard forums directly (I think they have a lore section?)
Wasn't Trang-Oul's ultimate purpose to create a constant war between the Angels and Demons, with no real side claiming victory? Doesn't it not throw off the balance there if all of the seven evils are gone? I suppose the expansions leave room for this, but, still, question #1 is pretty huge. lol.
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Wasn't Trang-Oul's ultimate purpose to create a constant war between the Angels and Demons, with no real side claiming victory? Doesn't it not throw off the balance there if all of the seven evils are gone? I suppose the expansions leave room for this, but, still, question #1 is pretty huge. lol.
Well if I remember correctly after you kill Diablo it is stated that true evil is never defeated. Also, during the end cinematic does the black soulstone not just fall through the clouds? Maybe Blizzard will use that as a catalyst toward the expansion or a future patch (Who know what actually happened to the black soulstone.)
When you finally get Zoltun Kulle his body back, he goes into the room with the Black Soulstone and activates it. At this point you see red energy flow into it, and he exclaims (paraphrased) "what! the souls of the 5 lords of hell reside in this stone!"
Kulle instantly knows what is going on (and seems to most of the time, redoing Act 2 knowing the final outcome, it is pretty clear he knows what is actually going down). After you defeat him, when questioned Adria reveals that she spent her time away after Leah's birth in Hell tracking down and marking the souls of the 5 defeated lords so they would flow into the Black Soulstone upon its activation (she just didn't know where it was prior to you & Leah bringing Kulle back to life.)
To question 2, I think the problem with the angels is an open question. Tyrael has stepped into the role of Wisdom at the end, and I assume your character steps into the role of Justice (total speculation, but it makes sense?). I'm betting Imperius isn't happy about that The dangling threads of Adria and Imperius making for a rather likely expansion, wouldn't you say?
But how could the destroyed souls of Mephisto and Diablo flow into the Stone? I want a more definitive answer than Adria just saying "lawl I found them and put 'em in there".
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Their souls can never be destroyed this has been stated.
Granted the "lawl I found them and put'em in there" explanation is lame, I'm not sure how else you can put together an explanation... D3 prequel the adventures of Adria... sounds like a movie.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
But how could the destroyed souls of Mephisto and Diablo flow into the Stone? I want a more definitive answer than Adria just saying "lawl I found them and put 'em in there".
From what I understand of the Lore of the Soulstones, the reason for their destruction was that they had been corrupted. Per: http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Soulstone the soulstones were allowing the prime evils to tap into the World Stone and gain more power while in Sanctuary. They needed to be destroyed to stop this (and eventually, the world stone itself). But that didn't destroy the souls of the Diablo and Mephisto, it just sent them back to Hell... exactly under what circumstances and how I can't find a good explanation for, but probably without a host or body which they could use to exert direct control on anything.
From Act 2 we know that Adria found the souls and marked them somehow, and from Act 3/4 we know this was with Diablo's blessing/guidance. The mechanics of the how we don't know, but I think you'll just have to accept that fact for now (maybe more answers in the expansion?).
But nothing says that destroying the soulstones destroyed the souls of prime evils. Maybe once their bodies are gone and there are no soulstones, they have no way to influence anything, but soulstones are wildcards that allow them to do more than intended.
Number 1, as has been explained, is that Adria spent the interim 20 years between D2 and D3 marking the souls of the Lords of Hell. As for why Diablo and Mephisto weren't destroyed when their soulstones were shattered, there's no real concrete answer. It's very possible, given the mysterious nature of the original soulstones and the Black Soulstone, that they will be discussed in greater detail in some future book or an expansion. In the meantime, all I can offer you is some theories:
1) Evil cannot be destroyed. Much like Diablo's death at the hand of Imperius in Wrath, the Great Evils always return because they are more than just beings; they are the embodiment of their Evil. So long as Terror exists, so will Diablo, so long as Hatred exists, so will Mephisto, etc. Considering how often this has occurred, it is a plausible explanation.
2) The nature of the soulstones is unknown. Tyrael believed that destroying the soulstones would destroy the Evils, but he simply lacked knowledge on the nature of soulstones. Considering the Black Soulstone is even more mysterious than the original soulstones, this is also a possibility.
3) Destroying the soulstones was necessary because they were corrupted. Seeing as how the soulstones were shards of the Worldstone, and seeing how Baal corrupted the Worldstone and then Tyrael shattered it, it's possible destroying the soulstones was meant to ensure that the Evils had no anchor to the mortal realm, requiring them to regenerate at the standard rate. Adria, however, got to them first.
As for number 2, they allied with the Nephalem because it was the right decision to make given their desperation and because Tyrael vouched for them. However, not all angels agreed with this decision: Imperius and his host stormed out of Heaven due to the Nephalem interfering. In fact, the only angels that straight out accepted the Nephalem were the angels that voted to spare them in the first place: Itherael, Auriel, and Tyrael.
As for number 2, they allied with the Nephalem because it was the right decision to make given their desperation and because Tyrael vouched for them. However, not all angels agreed with this decision: Imperius and his host stormed out of Heaven due to the Nephalem interfering. In fact, the only angels that straight out accepted the Nephalem were the angels that voted to spare them in the first place: Itherael, Auriel, and Tyrael.
only one angel votede to spare the Nephalem and that was Tyrael... the others apprantly votede blank or aginest spareing them
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i apologice for spelling errors i am from denmark and unfortnaly suffer from dyslixa
As for number 2, they allied with the Nephalem because it was the right decision to make given their desperation and because Tyrael vouched for them. However, not all angels agreed with this decision: Imperius and his host stormed out of Heaven due to the Nephalem interfering. In fact, the only angels that straight out accepted the Nephalem were the angels that voted to spare them in the first place: Itherael, Auriel, and Tyrael.
only one angel votede to spare the Nephalem and that was Tyrael... the others apprantly votede blank or aginest spareing them
actually he is correct imperius wanted them destroyed, fate said that they would all answer to him late on and decided to have a blank vote which was counted against them, tyreal had the final vote and decided to let them live after seeing them fight in the sin wars
As for the Angels wanting to destroy Sanctuary, it was 4 on 3, to save (with one of them abstaining, which in D3 Tyreal claims was counted against...not sure how that works). It wasn't JUST Tyreal who voted to save, he was just the final, deciding vote. I don't have a copy of the Sin Wars, so I can't look it up, but I'm pretty sure how that vote went down. Imperius did want to destory them all, simply because we're part Demon. And for the Angels/Nephalem being buddy buddy, we only really see the Angels who liked us more in the first place, and I don't think you can read too much into Tyreal retaking his place on the Council, because, as he was originally an Angel, it is unlikely the others would consider him "half demon," like the would a mortal.
The whole Diablo/Mephisto souls still being around is, imo, a retcon. If I remember right, the whole point of using the Hellforge in D2 was that was the only way to destroy the stone AND the soul. If you just shatter it, then the soul is free to roam, as Diablo did just before Diablo 1 (Lazerous shattered it). After being broken, it would serve as an anchor, making it impossible to kick the soul out of Sanctuary. There is talk about someplace called, I believe, "the abyss" (in Sin Wars, I believe). This is appearently where demon souls get cast out to, if they aren't cast back into Hell. Lilith has been there, and back, a few times, so it is possible that is where they went. It's also entirely possible that Blizz will just spin it that Diablo and Mephisto SHOULD have been destroyed, but the destruction of the Worldstone some how let them back in.
As for where it goes from here, it will probably have something to do with the Black Soulstone, Adria, and/or Imperius. If they wanted to have some good symmetry with D2, then the expansion would be something about Imperious trying to destroy Sanctuary. But that's just a guess. Honestly, I don't care, as long as we have more Shen.
How the hell did Mephisto and Diablo get trapped inside the Black Soulstone?
The Prime Evils' Banishment into the Abyss: A Theory
After the cataclysm that saw the destruction of Anu and Tathamet, their bodies gave rise to new beings embodying their respective potentials, albeit in diluted form. The High Heavens revolve around the Shining Arch, Anu's diamond spine. The Burning Hells owe their allagience and existence to the Greater Evils, whom embody seven aspects of Tathamet.
In the center is the "Heart of Creation" and Eye of Anu -- the Worldstone. It exists at the crossroads of all realities, including Heaven and Hell; the Abyss and Trang'Oul's realm; and all other artificial worlds created by Angels and Demons. It is Doorway and Key in one.
The spirits of Mephisto, Baal and Diablo were banished into the Dark Abyss, a layer of reality believed to be beyond the reach of anyone.
But I believe the Black Soulstone is attuned to one world in particular -- the Abyss.
I believe Diablo imparted his experience in the Soulstone, and all of Izual's information, to Adria, allowing her to traverse worlds spiritually. Thus she was able to enact some dread summoning akin to Lilith's in the Pandamonium event, binding the souls of the Prime Evils into the Black Soulstone, which manifests one tiny corner of the Abyss.
At least, that's how I explain it away.
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Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
To my knowledge only the three Prime Evils had soulstones - the lesser evils didn't (in D2, Andariel and Duriel). It's possible that this is why the lesser evils are not as powerful in Sanctuary. We explicitly smash Mephisto and Diablo's soulstones in classic D2, and in D2 LOD we defeat Baal - we don't smash his soulstone* explicitly but I'd hypothesise that either:
A. It's smashed off-screen after his death
B. Tyrael's destruction of the Worldstone also smashes Baal's soulstone as it was a fragment of it
C. Baal's soulstone remains intact but without the Worldstone it's powerless
D. It's only a fragment anyway, with Tal Rasha dead Baal's soulstone is actually broken, at least partially
So by the end of D2 all soulstones are destroyed or useless, and the three Primes, Duriel and Andariel are "dead", which I guess means their spirits are floating around loose and powerless. At which point Adria tracked them down and "marked" them to be absorbed into the Black soulstone.
One thing that doesn't really add up is that after the Dark Exile began, the Three wandered the world of Sanctuary causing chaos and destruction before the Horadrim defeated them and imprisoned them in soulstones (which in D2 Izual reveals was their plan all along, somehow corrupting a soulstone makes them stronger than they otherwise would've been). Maybe it's lingering retcon fog but it sounded like they had some kind of serious presence in the world even without a soulstone. I guess it would make sense if they were non-corporeal and merely enhanced existing evil in the world... but presumably after the stones were destroyed they returned to that state. That is, the state they were in immediately after being banished and before the Horadrim came along. Which kind of makes you wonder, if they're not that destructive while they're not attached to a soulstone then why did the Horadrim go to all the trouble of soulstoning them in the first place?
*Actually only a fragment of his soulstone, it got smashed when the Horadrim tried to capture him and Tal Rasha sacrificed himself to "complete" the soulstone and imprison Baal. Baal later recovers the fragment from Marius in the D2 classic end cutscene. He wears it around his neck in the expansion.
As for the Angels wanting to destroy Sanctuary, it was 4 on 3, to save (with one of them abstaining, which in D3 Tyreal claims was counted against...not sure how that works). It wasn't JUST Tyreal who voted to save, he was just the final, deciding vote. I don't have a copy of the Sin Wars, so I can't look it up, but I'm pretty sure how that vote went down. Imperius did want to destory them all, simply because we're part Demon. And for the Angels/Nephalem being buddy buddy, we only really see the Angels who liked us more in the first place, and I don't think you can read too much into Tyreal retaking his place on the Council, because, as he was originally an Angel, it is unlikely the others would consider him "half demon," like the would a mortal.
Doesn't the in-game lore state there are 5 Archangels on the Angiris Council? Imperius, Tyrael, Auriel, Itherael and Malthael. Auriel and Itherael had voted against, Imperius had voted for and Malthael had abstained... so really it was just Imperius being a prick (also presumably it was his call that the abstention counted in his favour... lol). Although, it may have meant there are only 5 CURRENTLY on the Council. The two other Archangels were Inarius and Izual, I don't know if they were ever on the Council but regardless both seem to have been lost before the vote occurred. Inarius left to create Sanctuary so obviously that predates the vote, I'm not clear on exactly when Izual was "captured" but it seems to have been during heated fighting between Heaven and Hell, which probably puts it before the creation of Sanctuary as well.
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1) How the hell did Mephisto and Diablo get trapped inside the Black Soulstone? And Andariel and Duriel? In fact, how did any of them aside from Belial and Azmodan? It doesn't make sense. Mephisto and Diablo were specifically put into their Soulstones, then destroyed on the Hellforge. Baal's never was, or at least, was never said to be to my knowledge, but, still, how did he get in the Black Soulstone? I must have missed something.
2) How can the angels ally with the Nephalem at the end? It makes it seem like the angels are buddies with them, despite the fact that the Angels are just as bad as the demons towards Sanctuary. They wanted to absolutely obliterate the entire existence of Sanctuary!
www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!
For question #1, I have no idea.
Angels and Nephalem may be enemies, but when both their existances are threatened they are going to stand together and fight even if it means becoming enemies once again after.
It may seem like they are buddy buddy now, but you never know what could come in a future expansion/game.
For #1 you might be better off asking on the Blizzard forums directly (I think they have a lore section?)
www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!
Well if I remember correctly after you kill Diablo it is stated that true evil is never defeated. Also, during the end cinematic does the black soulstone not just fall through the clouds? Maybe Blizzard will use that as a catalyst toward the expansion or a future patch (Who know what actually happened to the black soulstone.)
When you finally get Zoltun Kulle his body back, he goes into the room with the Black Soulstone and activates it. At this point you see red energy flow into it, and he exclaims (paraphrased) "what! the souls of the 5 lords of hell reside in this stone!"
Kulle instantly knows what is going on (and seems to most of the time, redoing Act 2 knowing the final outcome, it is pretty clear he knows what is actually going down). After you defeat him, when questioned Adria reveals that she spent her time away after Leah's birth in Hell tracking down and marking the souls of the 5 defeated lords so they would flow into the Black Soulstone upon its activation (she just didn't know where it was prior to you & Leah bringing Kulle back to life.)
To question 2, I think the problem with the angels is an open question. Tyrael has stepped into the role of Wisdom at the end, and I assume your character steps into the role of Justice (total speculation, but it makes sense?). I'm betting Imperius isn't happy about that The dangling threads of Adria and Imperius making for a rather likely expansion, wouldn't you say?
www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!
Granted the "lawl I found them and put'em in there" explanation is lame, I'm not sure how else you can put together an explanation... D3 prequel the adventures of Adria... sounds like a movie.
From what I understand of the Lore of the Soulstones, the reason for their destruction was that they had been corrupted. Per: http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Soulstone the soulstones were allowing the prime evils to tap into the World Stone and gain more power while in Sanctuary. They needed to be destroyed to stop this (and eventually, the world stone itself). But that didn't destroy the souls of the Diablo and Mephisto, it just sent them back to Hell... exactly under what circumstances and how I can't find a good explanation for, but probably without a host or body which they could use to exert direct control on anything.
From Act 2 we know that Adria found the souls and marked them somehow, and from Act 3/4 we know this was with Diablo's blessing/guidance. The mechanics of the how we don't know, but I think you'll just have to accept that fact for now (maybe more answers in the expansion?).
But nothing says that destroying the soulstones destroyed the souls of prime evils. Maybe once their bodies are gone and there are no soulstones, they have no way to influence anything, but soulstones are wildcards that allow them to do more than intended.
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Wise Elder1) Evil cannot be destroyed. Much like Diablo's death at the hand of Imperius in Wrath, the Great Evils always return because they are more than just beings; they are the embodiment of their Evil. So long as Terror exists, so will Diablo, so long as Hatred exists, so will Mephisto, etc. Considering how often this has occurred, it is a plausible explanation.
2) The nature of the soulstones is unknown. Tyrael believed that destroying the soulstones would destroy the Evils, but he simply lacked knowledge on the nature of soulstones. Considering the Black Soulstone is even more mysterious than the original soulstones, this is also a possibility.
3) Destroying the soulstones was necessary because they were corrupted. Seeing as how the soulstones were shards of the Worldstone, and seeing how Baal corrupted the Worldstone and then Tyrael shattered it, it's possible destroying the soulstones was meant to ensure that the Evils had no anchor to the mortal realm, requiring them to regenerate at the standard rate. Adria, however, got to them first.
As for number 2, they allied with the Nephalem because it was the right decision to make given their desperation and because Tyrael vouched for them. However, not all angels agreed with this decision: Imperius and his host stormed out of Heaven due to the Nephalem interfering. In fact, the only angels that straight out accepted the Nephalem were the angels that voted to spare them in the first place: Itherael, Auriel, and Tyrael.
only one angel votede to spare the Nephalem and that was Tyrael... the others apprantly votede blank or aginest spareing them
The whole Diablo/Mephisto souls still being around is, imo, a retcon. If I remember right, the whole point of using the Hellforge in D2 was that was the only way to destroy the stone AND the soul. If you just shatter it, then the soul is free to roam, as Diablo did just before Diablo 1 (Lazerous shattered it). After being broken, it would serve as an anchor, making it impossible to kick the soul out of Sanctuary. There is talk about someplace called, I believe, "the abyss" (in Sin Wars, I believe). This is appearently where demon souls get cast out to, if they aren't cast back into Hell. Lilith has been there, and back, a few times, so it is possible that is where they went. It's also entirely possible that Blizz will just spin it that Diablo and Mephisto SHOULD have been destroyed, but the destruction of the Worldstone some how let them back in.
As for where it goes from here, it will probably have something to do with the Black Soulstone, Adria, and/or Imperius. If they wanted to have some good symmetry with D2, then the expansion would be something about Imperious trying to destroy Sanctuary. But that's just a guess. Honestly, I don't care, as long as we have more Shen.
After the cataclysm that saw the destruction of Anu and Tathamet, their bodies gave rise to new beings embodying their respective potentials, albeit in diluted form. The High Heavens revolve around the Shining Arch, Anu's diamond spine. The Burning Hells owe their allagience and existence to the Greater Evils, whom embody seven aspects of Tathamet.
In the center is the "Heart of Creation" and Eye of Anu -- the Worldstone. It exists at the crossroads of all realities, including Heaven and Hell; the Abyss and Trang'Oul's realm; and all other artificial worlds created by Angels and Demons. It is Doorway and Key in one.
The spirits of Mephisto, Baal and Diablo were banished into the Dark Abyss, a layer of reality believed to be beyond the reach of anyone.
But I believe the Black Soulstone is attuned to one world in particular -- the Abyss.
I believe Diablo imparted his experience in the Soulstone, and all of Izual's information, to Adria, allowing her to traverse worlds spiritually. Thus she was able to enact some dread summoning akin to Lilith's in the Pandamonium event, binding the souls of the Prime Evils into the Black Soulstone, which manifests one tiny corner of the Abyss.
At least, that's how I explain it away.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
A. It's smashed off-screen after his death
B. Tyrael's destruction of the Worldstone also smashes Baal's soulstone as it was a fragment of it
C. Baal's soulstone remains intact but without the Worldstone it's powerless
D. It's only a fragment anyway, with Tal Rasha dead Baal's soulstone is actually broken, at least partially
So by the end of D2 all soulstones are destroyed or useless, and the three Primes, Duriel and Andariel are "dead", which I guess means their spirits are floating around loose and powerless. At which point Adria tracked them down and "marked" them to be absorbed into the Black soulstone.
One thing that doesn't really add up is that after the Dark Exile began, the Three wandered the world of Sanctuary causing chaos and destruction before the Horadrim defeated them and imprisoned them in soulstones (which in D2 Izual reveals was their plan all along, somehow corrupting a soulstone makes them stronger than they otherwise would've been). Maybe it's lingering retcon fog but it sounded like they had some kind of serious presence in the world even without a soulstone. I guess it would make sense if they were non-corporeal and merely enhanced existing evil in the world... but presumably after the stones were destroyed they returned to that state. That is, the state they were in immediately after being banished and before the Horadrim came along. Which kind of makes you wonder, if they're not that destructive while they're not attached to a soulstone then why did the Horadrim go to all the trouble of soulstoning them in the first place?
*Actually only a fragment of his soulstone, it got smashed when the Horadrim tried to capture him and Tal Rasha sacrificed himself to "complete" the soulstone and imprison Baal. Baal later recovers the fragment from Marius in the D2 classic end cutscene. He wears it around his neck in the expansion.
Doesn't the in-game lore state there are 5 Archangels on the Angiris Council? Imperius, Tyrael, Auriel, Itherael and Malthael. Auriel and Itherael had voted against, Imperius had voted for and Malthael had abstained... so really it was just Imperius being a prick (also presumably it was his call that the abstention counted in his favour... lol). Although, it may have meant there are only 5 CURRENTLY on the Council. The two other Archangels were Inarius and Izual, I don't know if they were ever on the Council but regardless both seem to have been lost before the vote occurred. Inarius left to create Sanctuary so obviously that predates the vote, I'm not clear on exactly when Izual was "captured" but it seems to have been during heated fighting between Heaven and Hell, which probably puts it before the creation of Sanctuary as well.