It is pretty safe to say that the client recieves only trunicated values. Otherwise this mess wouldn't make sense. The only explanation I can come up with is some weird rounding of the calculation that would cause the given Vitality numbers as seen here.

Unfortunately it will be almost impossible to come up with an exact formula like this. I'm also pretty sure this isn't intended and most likely a coding bug.

The reason I've come to this conclusion is that the Defense and Precision values don't seem to have this problem at all and go along with the predicted formula, despite having the same +1/+2 alternations.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"Traitors! Even in death, the armies of Khanduras will still obey their king!"

Has anybody figured out exactly how different damage modifiers stack?

The different damage modifiers I can think of:
attack
+damage from gear
skill damage
rune effects

I wonder if it's just a simple case of multiplying the different modifiers, or if some of them add together. This could have big effects on which modifiers to look for.

Not sure if this is posted in the replies somewhere, but, your project level 60 stats are way off.

Firstly nice find on this picture. Now we have all said that these equations are based off the numbers from the beta. We (or at the very least me) assumed that the equations found from the 13 levels would apply in a linear fashion to later levels. We know that this is almost absolutely incorrect but its all we can do for now

Secondly we dont know if those are stats boosted by gear, skills etc so we may not be as far off as we think (although we probably are :P)

Yeah... I made that note about gear after I posted it.

And you're probably right, there's got to be skills/gear involved at level 60 because the character has some elemental resistances (which you don't get from stats alone).

As far as the tests go pretty much everything seems to be multiplied.

Thanks, do you perhaps have an algorithm for weapon damage? If I understand things correctly, %damage on gear doesn't simply add to the attack value, they are calculated individually and then multiplied with each other.

I'm thinking weapon damage would be something like this:

damage = (base weapon damage) x (+% damage modifiers from gear) x (attack) x (skill damage) x (rune effects)

obvioiusly there could be many different skills active, in which case they would multiply.

As far as the tests go pretty much everything seems to be multiplied.

Thanks, do you perhaps have an algorithm for weapon damage? If I understand things correctly, %damage on gear doesn't simply add to the attack value, they are calculated individually and then multiplied with each other.

I'm thinking weapon damage would be something like this:

damage = (base weapon damage) x (+% damage modifiers from gear) x (attack) x (skill damage) x (rune effects)

obvioiusly there could be many different skills active, in which case they would multiply.

I am intrigued.

I would have guessed the following for Frenzy for example:

Might be left over parentheses, I just copied the line from the sheet and subtracted a few irrelevant parts.

edit: oh I must add this because it is of extreme importance.

MhMax = the average critical swing (=avg dmg [(base min+ base max)/2] * crit damage)
MhMin = the average non crit swing (= avg dmg [(base min + base max)/2]

I think everything revolving around "Attack Speed" and that includes "Frenzy" will need special consideration, as not everything can be multiplied in those cases. That would be way to strong. Even though beta testers have confirmed that Attack, Weapon ED%, Ability ED% and Passive ED% all stack multiplicative, what we can test is still very limited and might also change for the final. So don't take my word on this.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"Traitors! Even in death, the armies of Khanduras will still obey their king!"

I think everything revolving around "Attack Speed" and that includes "Frenzy" will need special consideration, as not everything can be multiplied in those cases. That would be way to strong. Even though beta testers have confirmed that Attack, Weapon ED%, Ability ED% and Passive ED% all stack multiplicative, what we can test is still very limited and might also change for the final. So don't take my word on this.

I would love a source for this. If nothing else, I would love to know what beta testers you are referring to.

Weapon %ed scaling multiplicatively (something other than multiplying the base damage) was quite surprising and deserves a closer look since the guy didn't really give any source. It would probably line up dual wield nicely with most 2handers. I'll look at it tomorrow.

I think character's base HP (the hp they'd have with 0 Vitality) scales with level. It is also possible that the HP-per-Vit scales with level (and may even be non-integer!) as the screenshots we've seen of level-60 characters have ridiculously high HP.

It is pretty safe to say that the client recieves only trunicated values. Otherwise this mess wouldn't make sense. The only explanation I can come up with is some weird rounding of the calculation that would cause the given Vitality numbers as seen here.

It is always a possibility that the LCS ("lying character sheet") is completely full of crap and giving us wrong values. However, I think it'd be extremely unlikely for HP to lie to us. (otherwise, our characters might die while having more-than-0 displayed HP)

It is possible that Vit is rounded prior to its use in HP calculations, while Precision/Defense/etc are only rounded after they have been used in calculations. This effect is pretty common in WoW. (ie, Expertise only works in whole numbers while Mastery works in fractional numbers)

According to item tooltips %weapon ed only scales up the base damage used for calculations, a percentage-based min/max damage. To me this was expected, I really don't believe weapon %ed would scale anything else. Now, the real problem lies within %damage on armor. Why is this separated from attack? One would assume it's because it has a different function, however there's a problem with that.

Take for example Armor of Lucien and this one. I have a hard time believing they add together and then scale the base damage multiplicatively. The reason for this is because with the endgame gear (with the setup I tried it with it has +182% damage [separated from another 488 attack]) and the result was that the dps jumped tenfold. The stat would, in my eyes, be way too powerful on armor.

I think character's base HP (the hp they'd have with 0 Vitality) scales with level. It is also possible that the HP-per-Vit scales with level (and may even be non-integer!) as the screenshots we've seen of level-60 characters have ridiculously high HP.

It is pretty safe to say that the client recieves only trunicated values. Otherwise this mess wouldn't make sense. The only explanation I can come up with is some weird rounding of the calculation that would cause the given Vitality numbers as seen here.

It is always a possibility that the LCS ("lying character sheet") is completely full of crap and giving us wrong values. However, I think it'd be extremely unlikely for HP to lie to us. (otherwise, our characters might die while having more-than-0 displayed HP)

It is possible that Vit is rounded prior to its use in HP calculations, while Precision/Defense/etc are only rounded after they have been used in calculations. This effect is pretty common in WoW. (ie, Expertise only works in whole numbers while Mastery works in fractional numbers)

I agree my numbers are incorrect but whether my equations are wrong im not so sure (although they probably are). The barb at level 13 with no gear/buffs should have Atk 34, Precision 21, Defense 35, Vit 35. Clearly the first video shows that their stats are different. This difference is due to various buffs from Battle Rage, Frenzy and a potion (maybe not important). Now my equations will simply workout the correct stats for a naked character under no effects. I agree they dont work in all cases but will work when applied to base stats. That being said, i am pretty sure they are incorrect for that to as the beta is probably scaled differently to the full release

Only 3 champions have linear scaling for 1-13 naked Vitality stats, the other 2 are off in a weird way I don't really understand. The Wizard for example, his Health per Vitality decrease by leveling up. Now to understand this better we will need some numbers from beta testers adding Vitality items to diffent champion types and provide us with the results. Obviously we won't be able to determine the formula from the base stats only.

Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack

"Traitors! Even in death, the armies of Khanduras will still obey their king!"

Only 3 champions have linear scaling for 1-13 naked Vitality stats, the other 2 are off in a weird way I don't really understand. The Wizard for example, his Health per Vitality decrease by leveling up. Now to understand this better we will need some numbers from beta testers adding Vitality items to diffent champion types and provide us with the results. Obviously we won't be able to determine the formula from the base stats only.

It is clear that the Vitality of both up in alternating amounts i.e. +1 +2 +1 +2 etc. Therefore every two levels they gain +3 Vitality. With this they gain 20HP so thats 20HP per 3 Vitality and this remains constant thru the 13 levels.

Only 3 champions have linear scaling for 1-13 naked Vitality stats, the other 2 are off in a weird way I don't really understand. The Wizard for example, his Health per Vitality decrease by leveling up. Now to understand this better we will need some numbers from beta testers adding Vitality items to diffent champion types and provide us with the results. Obviously we won't be able to determine the formula from the base stats only.

I agree with the three having linear and that 2 are different namely the Wizard and the Demon Hunter. After looking thru the stats from: http://s273.photobuc...ablo%203/stats/

It is clear that the Vitality of both up in alternating amounts i.e. +1 +2 +1 +2 etc. Therefore every two levels they gain +3 Vitality. With this they gain 20HP so thats 20HP per 3 Vitality and this remains constant thru the 13 levels.

Yup that's correct. One thing to give the melee-ish classes a one up on the cannon-ish classes I suppose.

I've been meaning to update the calculator but been really busy these past 3 days. F/T Job, plus Wedding stuff, plus getting a D3 site ready to go, just not enough time in the day nor week to do everything I want for the community. I will be updating the calc no matter what with all 5 classes today so all are on it. I'll also do some graphs for a visual aid as well.

On that note, what graphs would you like to see (that we can test out with the little certain info we have)?

Unfortunately it will be almost impossible to come up with an exact formula like this. I'm also pretty sure this isn't intended and most likely a coding bug.

The reason I've come to this conclusion is that the Defense and Precision values don't seem to have this problem at all and go along with the predicted formula, despite having the same +1/+2 alternations.

The different damage modifiers I can think of:

attack

+damage from gear

skill damage

rune effects

I wonder if it's just a simple case of multiplying the different modifiers, or if some of them add together. This could have big effects on which modifiers to look for.

I assume both characters are naked.... if not, then your stats MIGHT be right.

Firstly nice find on this picture. Now we have all said that these equations are based off the numbers from the beta. We (or at the very least me) assumed that the equations found from the 13 levels would apply in a linear fashion to later levels. We know that this is almost absolutely incorrect but its all we can do for now

Secondly we dont know if those are stats boosted by gear, skills etc so we may not be as far off as we think (although we probably are :P)

And you're probably right, there's got to be skills/gear involved at level 60 because the character has some elemental resistances (which you don't get from stats alone).

Thanks, do you perhaps have an algorithm for weapon damage? If I understand things correctly, %damage on gear doesn't simply add to the attack value, they are calculated individually and then multiplied with each other.

I'm thinking weapon damage would be something like this:

damage = (base weapon damage) x (+% damage modifiers from gear) x (attack) x (skill damage) x (rune effects)

obvioiusly there could be many different skills active, in which case they would multiply.

I am intrigued.

I would have guessed the following for Frenzy for example:

=(((MhMax-MhMin)*CritChance+MhMin)*(80/100))*DamageModifiers

Might be left over parentheses, I just copied the line from the sheet and subtracted a few irrelevant parts.

edit: oh I must add this because it is of extreme importance.

MhMax = the average critical swing (=avg dmg [(base min+ base max)/2] * crit damage)

MhMin = the average non crit swing (= avg dmg [(base min + base max)/2]

Decimation, a Barbarian spreadsheet

I would love a source for this. If nothing else, I would love to know what beta testers you are referring to.

Decimation, a Barbarian spreadsheet

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/29849-beta-test-requests/

Weapon %ed scaling multiplicatively (something other than multiplying the base damage) was quite surprising and deserves a closer look since the guy didn't really give any source. It would probably line up dual wield nicely with most 2handers. I'll look at it tomorrow.

Thank you for the source.

Decimation, a Barbarian spreadsheet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hj0gBPyxfk&feature=related

Baba Vit = 69, HP = 393 (your formula = 432)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rBGhsYqa90&feature=related

Baba Vit = 85, HP = 475 (your formula = 528)

I think character's base HP (the hp they'd have with 0 Vitality) scales with level. It is also possible that the HP-per-Vit scales with level (and may even be non-integer!) as the screenshots we've seen of level-60 characters have ridiculously high HP.

It is always a possibility that the LCS ("lying character sheet") is completely full of crap and giving us wrong values. However, I think it'd be extremely unlikely for HP to lie to us. (otherwise, our characters might die while having more-than-0 displayed HP)

It is possible that Vit is rounded prior to its use in HP calculations, while Precision/Defense/etc are only rounded after they have been used in calculations. This effect is pretty common in WoW. (ie, Expertise only works in whole numbers while Mastery works in fractional numbers)

According to item tooltips %weapon ed only scales up the base damage used for calculations, a percentage-based min/max damage. To me this was expected, I really don't believe weapon %ed would scale anything else. Now, the real problem lies within %damage on armor. Why is this separated from attack? One would assume it's because it has a different function, however there's a problem with that.

Take for example Armor of Lucien and this one. I have a hard time believing they add together and then scale the base damage multiplicatively. The reason for this is because with the endgame gear (with the setup I tried it with it has +182% damage [separated from another 488 attack]) and the result was that the dps jumped tenfold. The stat would, in my eyes, be way too powerful on armor.

Anyone got any ideas?

Decimation, a Barbarian spreadsheet

I agree my numbers are incorrect but whether my equations are wrong im not so sure (although they probably are). The barb at level 13 with no gear/buffs should have Atk 34, Precision 21, Defense 35, Vit 35. Clearly the first video shows that their stats are different. This difference is due to various buffs from Battle Rage, Frenzy and a potion (maybe not important). Now my equations will simply workout the correct stats for a naked character under no effects. I agree they dont work in all cases but will work when applied to base stats. That being said, i am pretty sure they are incorrect for that to as the beta is probably scaled differently to the full release

I agree with the three having linear and that 2 are different namely the Wizard and the Demon Hunter. After looking thru the stats from:

http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj227/soulzek/diablo%203/stats/

It is clear that the Vitality of both up in alternating amounts i.e. +1 +2 +1 +2 etc. Therefore every two levels they gain +3 Vitality. With this they gain 20HP so thats 20HP per 3 Vitality and this remains constant thru the 13 levels.

Yup that's correct. One thing to give the melee-ish classes a one up on the cannon-ish classes I suppose.

I've been meaning to update the calculator but been really busy these past 3 days. F/T Job, plus Wedding stuff, plus getting a D3 site ready to go, just not enough time in the day nor week to do everything I want for the community. I will be updating the calc no matter what with all 5 classes today so all are on it. I'll also do some graphs for a visual aid as well.

On that note, what graphs would you like to see (that we can test out with the little certain info we have)?

In terms of graphs im not sure but anything out of the main stats would be benefit and more can be added later

Ha. Bagstone.